Protecting the Constitution

[lawdog77]

Does he? I haven't read anything prejudicial against Catholics. I've just read criticism of the Catholic Church as an organization.
What am I missing?
Or are you missing the ability to distinguish between the two?
And if I, as a Catholic, criticize the church, am I being a bigot against myself?

I don't know why either, though I suspect it has something to do with many religious folks using their political influence to legislate their beliefs on to non-believers.

His previous posts as well (talking about the Bible). Believe me, the Catholic church is far from infallible, but when individuals mock a religion (not just Rico, one poster compared the Bible to Aesop's fables), others have mocked Mormonism, that is bigotry.

[Uncle Rico]

I can't (and don't need to) speak for Rico, but this whole discussion wouldn't be necessary if some people who believe in God and the Bible weren't using those things to justify government climbing into a woman's womb (not to mention justifying other laws that take personal freedoms away from American citizens).

People throughout the world have used God and the Bible to justify unspeakable atrocities ever since man invented God and wrote the Bible thousands of years ago.

Glad you agree that these Christian zealots (and Jewish zealots and Muslim zealots) need to mind their own effen business.

The founding principles of this nation were not rooted in Christianity despite the proclamations of the dingbat caucus of the Republican Party.  Our founding fathers knew the dangers of a state intertwined with any religious body based on centuries of history.

This history still reverberates to modern day.  A nation born with the principle of seperation of church and state has instead become one where the two are intertwined.  Anyone that dismissed the danger of this simply ignore history.

The idea that we are a more enlightened society because we live in it is preposterous.  To think rule by religious beliefs can’t or won’t be negative ignores every ideal our nation was founded on.  We are devolving as a society as we look backwards and embrace superstition.  If we haven’t learned we are an ignorant society they last few years, the future is bleak

[lawdog77]

As a Christian, I find your statement to be way more problematic than his.

What, (my opinion) that people should keep their religious beliefs to the confines of the proper venues (home, church,charitable organizations), is more problematic than his statements that it is OK for others to mock another persons religious beliefs? Calling him a bigot is from his body of work

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

What, (my opinion) that people should keep their religious beliefs to the confines of the proper venues (home, church,charitable organizations), is more problematic than his statements that it is OK for others to mock another persons religious beliefs? Calling him a bigot is from his body of work

I think telling non Christians to “mind their own business” when they question your beliefs is problematic.

[lawdog77]

I think telling non Christians to “mind their own business” when they question your beliefs is problematic.

Why? Religion and spiritualty are truly personal topics, and telling someone else how/what they should believe is what is problematic. As long as that individual is not personally affecting your right to believe what you want, leave them alone. If you want to worship trees, believe a space alien came down to save humanity, etc why should I care, and why should I tell you I believe your story is crap?Want to tell a politican his religious beliefs should not affect policy? I agree 100000%. Want to tell a guy on a message board his religious beliefs are wrong/stupid/silly? You become a bigot.

[mu_hilltopper]

I found this interesting .. Michigan has a simple way of amending their state Constitution.   Collect 425k signatures to get it on a ballot, then pass it.

A pro-choice group has 30k volunteers to collect those sigs by July 11th .. a very doable per volunteer amount.   

Michigan democrats have roughly swept all state-wide elections, from Gov to MI Supreme Court since 2018.  Throw in some pro-choice GOP voters and this amendment passes in November.

Somehow, they'll have to not let the people decide this!

https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2022/06/24/roe-v-wade-michigan-ballot-initiative/7722914001/

[MU82]

Religion and spiritualty are truly personal topics

Then don't all but force teenagers to pray in public at midfield; don't keep pushing for prayer in schools; don't put God on our currency, license plates and other government-controlled items; don't make people swear on a bible in court; don't offer a public prayer before sporting events that aren't held in a church-supported location; don't very publicly use religion to justify invading a woman's body; etc.

I have absolutely no problem with people practicing their chosen religion. Why should I -- it is their right, as guaranteed by our Constitution, and I'm glad they have that right. But as soon as you not only bring that religion into the public sphere but also try to force others to adhere to laws, rules or customs regarding your religious beliefs, then yes, you should be called out or even mocked.

BTW, my use of "you" in the above was not referring to you specifically, lawdog. I don't know anything about your beliefs or the way you display them. It was the collective "you" referring to religious zealots who have made it their mission in life to get into everybody else's business.

[Pakuni]

Want to tell a politican his religious beliefs should not affect policy? I agree 100000%. Want to tell a guy on a message board his religious beliefs are wrong/stupid/silly? You become a bigot.

What if there's no separation between the two, which is often/mostly the case?
If you privately believe that gay marriage is a sin, that's fine.
If, on the other hand, you believe gay marriage is a sin and you vote for and/or financially support politicians who will legislate or otherwise act based on that belief, am I allowed to call you out on that? Or am I a bigot?


I guess what I'm saying is that when you choose to make your religious beliefs the foundation of your public life, then you open up your religious beliefs to public scrutiny. It's no longer a "personal topic."

[MU82]

At least men will get richer ...

The all-male teams of investors behind Plan B are poised to make big bucks. According to the websites of the two private equity firms, Kelso and Juggernaut, only men make up the teams overseeing the maker of the top-selling emergency contraception in the United States. And their paydays could be big. One dose of brand-name Plan B typically sells for around $46. And it’s probably quite profitable: It had a more than 85 percent profit margin when it was sold as a prescription drug by Barr, said David Woodburn, a former analyst who covered the company.

(Above from the NYT's daily "DealBook" feature.)

[tower912]

I found this interesting .. Michigan has a simple way of amending their state Constitution.   Collect 425k signatures to get it on a ballot, then pass it.

A pro-choice group has 30k volunteers to collect those sigs by July 11th .. a very doable per volunteer amount.   

Michigan democrats have roughly swept all state-wide elections, from Gov to MI Supreme Court since 2018.  Throw in some pro-choice GOP voters and this amendment passes in November.

Somehow, they'll have to not let the people decide this!

https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2022/06/24/roe-v-wade-michigan-ballot-initiative/7722914001/

This is how one of the voting controversies came to be.  In 2018, by a vote of the people, it was enacted that you could vote absentee without needing a reason in Michigan.   Because you felt like it.   During the pandemic, the SoS mailed out absentee ballots to every registered voter in the state.    The R's passed legislation saying that the mail in ballots could not be counted in advance, the counting would start in election day.

All of the urban areas had 10's of thousands of mail in ballots, Detroit well over 100k.    It isn't physically possible to count those all in a day.   Ergo, it was inevitable that there would be a delay in getting the final tally.     No conspiracy.  Simple math and physics.
https://ballotpedia.org/Michigan_Proposal_3,_Voting_Policies_in_State_Constitution_Initiative_(2018)

[MU82]

This is how one of the voting controversies came to be.  In 2018, by a vote of the people, it was enacted that you could vote absentee without needing a reason in Michigan.   Because you felt like it.   During the pandemic, the SoS mailed out absentee ballots to every registered voter in the state.    The R's passed legislation saying that the mail in ballots could not be counted in advance, the counting would start in election day.

All of the urban areas had 10's of thousands of mail in ballots, Detroit well over 100k.    It isn't physically possible to count those all in a day.   Ergo, it was inevitable that there would be a delay in getting the final tally.     No conspiracy.  Simple math and physics.
https://ballotpedia.org/Michigan_Proposal_3,_Voting_Policies_in_State_Constitution_Initiative_(2018)

Stop lying. Everybody knows that Michigan voting machines were tampered with by Jewish space lasers fired by Hugo Chavez.

[lawdog77]

Stop lying. Everybody knows that Michigan voting machines were tampered with by Jewish space lasers fired by Hugo Chavez.

To tie two threads together, if you paid attention to Ozark, they had voting machines which were tampered with.

[Hards Alumni]

He's still a bigot. He clearly has a prejudice against Catholics. Still don't understand why some people who don't believe in God and the Bible (see the poster who compared it to Aesop's fables) feel the need to try to disprove the Bible and the existence of God. Mind your own business.

You're confused.  He said the Catholic church, not all Catholics.

I don't need to try to disprove the bible.  And if you want people to 'mind their own business' maybe stop forcing your religious beliefs on them.

Hypocrite.

[Lennys Tap]

What, (my opinion) that people should keep their religious beliefs to the confines of the proper venues (home, church,charitable organizations), is more problematic than his statements that it is OK for others to mock another persons religious beliefs? Calling him a bigot is from his body of work

The essence of bigotry is judgement. So everyone has at least some. Assuming moral superiority based on one’s opinions re complex issues (abortion, gun control, etc.,) is bigotry. The more self righteous, the bigger the bigot.

[Hards Alumni]

The essence of bigotry is judgement. So everyone has at least some. Assuming moral superiority based on one’s opinions re complex issues (abortion, gun control, etc.,) is bigotry. The more self righteous, the bigger the bigot.

Having a different opinion or a strongly held belief makes a person a bigot.

Let's get you to bed, grandpa.

[lawdog77]

You're confused.  He said the Catholic church, not all Catholics.

I don't need to try to disprove the bible.  And if you want people to 'mind their own business' maybe stop forcing your religious beliefs on them.

Hypocrite.

It's Rico's body of work, not that one specific post.  BTW, where have I tried to force my religious belief on anyone?

[Lennys Tap]

Having a different opinion or a strongly held belief makes a person a bigot.

Let's get you to bed, grandpa.

It’s not the strong opinion that makes you a bigot. It’s the feeling of superiority that it engenders in some people.

Guess what, kid? You’re the poster boy.

[MUBurrow]

Yeah, I think discriminating against a person's identity makes you a bigot, not discriminating against their beliefs.  For example, people aren't anti-Semitic because they speak derisively of the Torah, they are anti-Semitic because they subscribe to discriminatory stereotypes and blanket discrimination against Jewish people as a group.   

Isn't calling someone a bigot for discriminating against ideas cancel culture?

[Jockey]

He's still a bigot. He clearly has a prejudice against Catholics. Still don't understand why some people who don't believe in God and the Bible (see the poster who compared it to Aesop's fables) feel the need to try to disprove the Bible and the existence of God. Mind your own business.

I think you are confusing 2 very different things, Lawdog. One is catholic teachings - which I have no problem with. The other is the catholic church, which in undeniably corrupt.

I grew up in a pretty strict protestant church. I still accept most of their teachings. I also have no desire to ever attend a church again. The "christian" leadership drove me out. They sold their souls to the republican party in the 80s. Hatred and evil are their standard fare now.

Those in power - be they catholic or christian - simply want to retain their hold on power and money. The easiest way to do that is to deny the rights of women both in public and in the church. Been that way since the beginnings for all churches.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Why? Religion and spiritualty are truly personal topics, and telling someone else how/what they should believe is what is problematic. As long as that individual is not personally affecting your right to believe what you want, leave them alone. If you want to worship trees, believe a space alien came down to save humanity, etc why should I care, and why should I tell you I believe your story is crap?Want to tell a politican his religious beliefs should not affect policy? I agree 100000%. Want to tell a guy on a message board his religious beliefs are wrong/stupid/silly? You become a bigot.

Because a healthy set up beliefs should always be questioned.

[Skatastrophy]

It's Rico's body of work, not that one specific post.  BTW, where have I tried to force my religious belief on anyone?

You haven't that I recall, but that's the religious extremist platform. Small government... unless we get to force our religious views on the nation. It's pretty wild, and those extremists are alienating the majority of Americans.

[Pakuni]

It’s not the strong opinion that makes you a bigot. It’s the feeling of superiority that it engenders in some people.

Guess what, kid? You’re the poster boy.

I assume moral superiority to racists, xenophobes, homophobes and sexists. I judge the sh*t of these people.
Am I a bigot?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

It’s not the strong opinion that makes you a bigot. It’s the feeling of superiority that it engenders in some people.

I guess I'm a bigot against flatearthers and astrologists.

[lawdog77]

Because a healthy set up beliefs should always be questioned.

What does that even mean?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

What does that even mean?

It means that if you should always be questioning even your own beliefs.  It's healthy.