Big East Roster Updates

[Pakuni]

Not having to play Rati 12-13 minutes per game makes Creighton a better basketball team this year.

I'm pretty sure McDermott never "had" to play him 12-13 minutes a game.

[The Equalizer]

Now you are just making a circular argument considering you just said that McD would have to play him 12-13 per game. And it proves brew's point. Now if there are injuries, there will be less options available. The only way this helps Creighton is that it frees up scholarship for future years - it can only hurt them THIS year unless he is a bad locker room guy.

It doesn't even do that.  Creighton could always decline to renew the scholarship at the end of this season (unless they offered a rare 4-year scholarship, which I doubt). 

[brewcity77]

They're better off finding a preferred walk on that doesn't take a scholarship spot than keeping him on the books. They took a flier on him and he didn't pan out. Better to cut the line earlier and bring in more talent.

This is just ridiculous. You aren't finding a preferred walk on with more talent in August. Unless they are giving Doug McDermott a fifth year, that simply ain't happening.

And "took a flier on him"? AYFKM? He was the top player in their 2020 class per 247 and at the time the highest ranked recruit in Creighton history. I know 2020 feels like a lifetime ago, but this is a shabby attempt at rewriting history.

Poster who said Creighton got better was hyperbolic, but acting as if they lost anything more than a very poor player is equally hyperbolic.

He was a good enough defender to lock Daryl Morsell up in crunch time in Omaha. He might not have lived up to his recruiting ranking thanks to injury, but he was a viable high major bench player that gave Creighton options in case of injury or foul trouble.

As a Marquette fan, I wouldn't want to lose Stevie Mitchell right now. In terms of freshman minutes played and recruiting rank, Andro was superior in both regards. As I said, doesn't likely hurt their ceiling, but it does hurt their floor.

[The Sultan]

This is just ridiculous. You aren't finding a preferred walk on with more talent in August. Unless they are giving Doug McDermott a fifth year, that simply ain't happening.

And "took a flier on him"? AYFKM? He was the top player in their 2020 class per 247 and at the time the highest ranked recruit in Creighton history. I know 2020 feels like a lifetime ago, but this is a shabby attempt at rewriting history.

He was a good enough defender to lock Daryl Morsell up in crunch time in Omaha. He might not have lived up to his recruiting ranking thanks to injury, but he was a viable high major bench player that gave Creighton options in case of injury or foul trouble.

As a Marquette fan, I wouldn't want to lose Stevie Mitchell right now. In terms of freshman minutes played and recruiting rank, Andro was superior in both regards. As I said, doesn't likely hurt their ceiling, but it does hurt their floor.

Yep yep.

[panda]

This is just ridiculous. You aren't finding a preferred walk on with more talent in August. Unless they are giving Doug McDermott a fifth year, that simply ain't happening.

And "took a flier on him"? AYFKM? He was the top player in their 2020 class per 247 and at the time the highest ranked recruit in Creighton history. I know 2020 feels like a lifetime ago, but this is a shabby attempt at rewriting history.

He was a good enough defender to lock Daryl Morsell up in crunch time in Omaha. He might not have lived up to his recruiting ranking thanks to injury, but he was a viable high major bench player that gave Creighton options in case of injury or foul trouble.

As a Marquette fan, I wouldn't want to lose Stevie Mitchell right now. In terms of freshman minutes played and recruiting rank, Andro was superior in both regards. As I said, doesn't likely hurt their ceiling, but it does hurt their floor.

The guy had a negative 1.1 PRPG. Worst by far in the BE and second worst high major. It's not a loss anyway you slice it. Almost anyone can come in and have that same or slightly better influence.

Stevie is a much better player so bad comparison.

[The Sultan]

The guy had a negative 1.1 PRPG. Worst by far in the BE and second worst high major. It's not a loss anyway you slice it. Almost anyone can come in and have that same or slightly better influence.

So who is coming in?

[brewcity77]

The guy had a negative 1.1 PRPG. Worst by far in the BE and second worst high major. It's not a loss anyway you slice it. Almost anyone can come in and have that same or slightly better influence.

Stevie is a much better player so bad comparison.

[jfp61]

This is just ridiculous. You aren't finding a preferred walk on with more talent in August. Unless they are giving Doug McDermott a fifth year, that simply ain't happening.

And "took a flier on him"? AYFKM? He was the top player in their 2020 class per 247 and at the time the highest ranked recruit in Creighton history. I know 2020 feels like a lifetime ago, but this is a shabby attempt at rewriting history.

He was a good enough defender to lock Daryl Morsell up in crunch time in Omaha. He might not have lived up to his recruiting ranking thanks to injury, but he was a viable high major bench player that gave Creighton options in case of injury or foul trouble.

As a Marquette fan, I wouldn't want to lose Stevie Mitchell right now. In terms of freshman minutes played and recruiting rank, Andro was superior in both regards. As I said, doesn't likely hurt their ceiling, but it does hurt their floor.

Stevie Mitchell had a 97.3 offensive rating. He provided a -0.8 offensive rating to Marquette or -0.5 RAPM. He provided excellent defense to balance this, improving the defense with a -1.8 defensive rating while playing or -1.9 RAPM.

His play on the court improved Marquette by NET 1 in rating and NET 1.4 in RAPM.

Rati Andronikashvili had a 66.4 offensive rating. Making him the second worst high major player offensively. He provided a -7.6 offensive rating to Creighton or -1.5 RAPM. He provided some defense to balance this, improving the defense with a -1.3 defensive rating while playing or -0.8 RAPM.

His play on the court hurt Creighton by NET 6.3 in rating and NET -0.7 in RAPM.

This is disgusting comparison, and feels insulting to Stevie.

[brewcity77]

Stevie Mitchell had a 97.3 offensive rating. He provided a -0.8 offensive rating to Marquette or -0.5 RAPM. He provided excellent defense to balance this, improving the defense with a -1.8 defensive rating while playing or -1.9 RAPM.

His play on the court improved Marquette by NET 1 in rating and NET 1.4 in RAPM.

Rati Andronikashvili had a 66.4 offensive rating. Making him the second worst high major player offensively. He provided a -7.6 offensive rating to Creighton or -1.5 RAPM. He provided some defense to balance this, improving the defense with a -1.3 defensive rating while playing or -0.8 RAPM.

His play on the court hurt Creighton by NET 6.3 in rating and NET -0.7 in RAPM.

This is disgusting comparison, and feels insulting to Stevie.

Way to avoid the topics of finding more talent in August, seeing the at the time highest ranked recruit in Creighton history walk away, ignoring that he shut down Morsell in Omaha, and that he was a viable bench option.

Plenty of players had poor starts to their careers and ended up being meaningful contributors. Jamorko Pickett, RJ Nembhard, Aaron Wheeler, Andre Wesson, and Herb Pope all had mediocre freshman and/or sophomore years and developed into important high-major contributors.

But what you're really ignoring is the simple fact that this hurts Creighton's floor, which has been the point all along. They are better off having a guy who was able to contribute 10-15 mpg as a freshman and could develop into more in later years than filling that spot with a tackling dummy, which is probably their best option in late August.

Also, the Stevie comparison is based on two things. Recruiting ranking coming in and minutes played last year. Both categories favored Rati. That's not disputable, whether you like the comparison or not.

[panda]

No they won't fill his spot with a transfer or new recruit in august and i never said they would. My point all along, which I've said several times, is that anyone on the roster or a preferred walk on can do what he did last year. There will be no roster crisis because he left.

Him leaving now gives Creighton more flexibility to take a mid season transfer or bank the scholarship and go after someone more talented once the season is over.

Nothing too complicated here.

[panda]

This is just ridiculous. You aren't finding a preferred walk on with more talent in August. Unless they are giving Doug McDermott a fifth year, that simply ain't happening.

And "took a flier on him"? AYFKM? He was the top player in their 2020 class per 247 and at the time the highest ranked recruit in Creighton history. I know 2020 feels like a lifetime ago, but this is a shabby attempt at rewriting history.

He was a good enough defender to lock Daryl Morsell up in crunch time in Omaha. He might not have lived up to his recruiting ranking thanks to injury, but he was a viable high major bench player that gave Creighton options in case of injury or foul trouble.

As a Marquette fan, I wouldn't want to lose Stevie Mitchell right now. In terms of freshman minutes played and recruiting rank, Andro was superior in both regards. As I said, doesn't likely hurt their ceiling, but it does hurt their floor.

With the nba global academies available, international recruiting is much more reliable. But it can still be somewhat of a backwater channel without a ton of reliable games to base talent off of. Heck Harry Froling was a big time recruit when he came into college hoops.

[The Sultan]

No they won't fill his spot with a transfer or new recruit in august and i never said they would. My point all along, which I've said several times, is that anyone on the roster or a preferred walk on can do what he did last year.

Which is false. He played the eighth most minutes on the team last year. Ahead of five other players. I think it is a reasonable assertion that those five players were worse than him, and since three of them are returning, I think he would be ahead of them again this year.

[brewcity77]

No they won't fill his spot with a transfer or new recruit in august and i never said they would. My point all along, which I've said several times, is that anyone on the roster or a preferred walk on can do what he did last year. There will be no roster crisis because he left.

Him leaving now gives Creighton more flexibility to take a mid season transfer or bank the scholarship and go after someone more talented once the season is over.

Nothing too complicated here.

This is just silly. They aren't getting anyone better at this point. No mid-season transfer will help them and there's no greater roster flexibility next season because he could've left in April 2023 to the same effect. No one is calling this a roster crisis, it's simply the loss of a potentially useful rotation player late in the year when there aren't many replacements to be found. There's no way, shape, or form in which this helps them in the short or long term.

Bottom line, saying that adding a walk-on would be better is factually incorrect. Saying that he's just a guy they "took a flier on" and it didn't work out is factually incorrect. Saying that it improves their roster flexibility beyond this year is factually incorrect. You are throwing out a lot of things that are simply wrong and pretending otherwise.

Nothing too complicated here.

[rocky_warrior]

This may be the scoopiest argument of the summer.   Can we do St. John's 9th best player next?

[jfp61]

Way to avoid the topics of finding more talent in August, seeing the at the time highest ranked recruit in Creighton history walk away, ignoring that he shut down Morsell in Omaha, and that he was a viable bench option.

Plenty of players had poor starts to their careers and ended up being meaningful contributors. Jamorko Pickett, RJ Nembhard, Aaron Wheeler, Andre Wesson, and Herb Pope all had mediocre freshman and/or sophomore years and developed into important high-major contributors.

But what you're really ignoring is the simple fact that this hurts Creighton's floor, which has been the point all along. They are better off having a guy who was able to contribute 10-15 mpg as a freshman and could develop into more in later years than filling that spot with a tackling dummy, which is probably their best option in late August.

Also, the Stevie comparison is based on two things. Recruiting ranking coming in and minutes played last year. Both categories favored Rati. That's not disputable, whether you like the comparison or not.

1. My initial point was "losing Rati helps creighton this year on the court". I believe that because it forces them to play better players more often, and mild boost in their NET rankings is more beneficial than the depth Rati would provide as a the 5th-6th guard. He was nearly the worst offensive player in college basketball.

2. I never brought up his recruiting ranking. Ignored it for multiple reasons. I was focused on the on court ability. With recruiting, once you get past top 40-50 guys, rankings feel like a crap shoot. And from previous instances recruiting rankings of foreign players feel negligible. Services having Rati over  Kalkbrenner felt dumb at the time for instance. As for the "highest ranked recruit in Creighton history". They received commitments from 4 higher ranked recruits than Rati after he came to the school. And nearly a 5th in tyty. Im sure Mcdermott is fine.

3.  Jamorko Pickett, RJ Nembhard, Aaron Wheeler, Andre Wesson, and Herb Pope, all never had a single season as bad as Rati did last year offensively.

4. You can ignore the topic of "finding talent now", because talent is retally available in the transfer market every season. And Creighton has enough better talent already on its roster. Having seen Rati play, I would rather be forced to play
Ben Shtolzberg in a pinch over him.  McDermott won't play 12 guys. His 5th guard wont get 2mpg vs Nova.

5. Also you can ignore the 9 greatest minutes of rati's life when he guarded morsell. It was a clear outlier relative to the rest of his time on the court at creighton. Outliers happen. Creighton won that game because Kalkbrenner was the best player on the floor and Justin Lewis had one of his worst games at Marquette.


Saying Creighton is a better team today than it was yesterday isn't wild at all. They lost one of the worst offensive players in all of college basketball, they found better guards in Farabello, Mitchell, and likely in Christofilis and Shtolzberg. Those guards will now get Rati's minutes. Addition by subtraction is real.

[jfp61]

This is just silly. They aren't getting anyone better at this point. No mid-season transfer will help them and there's no greater roster flexibility next season because he could've left in April 2023 to the same effect. No one is calling this a roster crisis, it's simply the loss of a potentially useful rotation player late in the year when there aren't many replacements to be found. There's no way, shape, or form in which this helps them in the short or long term.

Bottom line, saying that adding a walk-on would be better is factually incorrect. Saying that he's just a guy they "took a flier on" and it didn't work out is factually incorrect. Saying that it improves their roster flexibility beyond this year is factually incorrect. You are throwing out a lot of things that are simply wrong and pretending otherwise.

Nothing too complicated here.

There is not way his minutes are going to anyone worse than him.

[jfp61]

This may be the scoopiest argument of the summer.   Can we do St. John's 9th best player next?

Why would we talk about Andre Curbello right now?

[The Sultan]

There is not way his minutes are going to anyone worse than him.

Again, he played significantly more than three people who are on their roster this year.

[Jay Bee]

Heck Harry Froling was a big time recruit when he came into college hoops.

Source?

[Herman Cain]

Rati leaving opens up minutes for Mason Miller. Miller was a top 75 recruit and son of NBA star Mike Miller.

Creighton red shirted the 6-8 Miller last year to develop physically  . He has a very good shot and should be in the Creighton tradition of shooters .

[The Equalizer]

Him leaving now gives Creighton more flexibility to take a mid season transfer or bank the scholarship and go after someone more talented once the season is over.

Nothing too complicated here.

It doesn't give them any more flexibility.

Your comment on mid-season transfers only made sense when players had to sit out a year. When Harry Froling transferred from SMU to MU he had to sit out two semesters before he could play, and therefore needed MU to have a scholarship open mid year. 

Future mid-year transfers will be like Dawson Garcia, where he can leave UNC mid-term, finish the academic year, and transfer and immediately play the first semester at Minnesota.  Minnesota didn't need an open scholarship because they didn't need Dawson to spend a year on campus before becoming eligible.

Even more obviously, teams absolutely don't need to bank a scholarship for next season. That's just dumb.  McDermott can keep Anrdro around this entire season and STILL replace him with a better player for next year.

[panda]

This is just silly. They aren't getting anyone better at this point. No mid-season transfer will help them and there's no greater roster flexibility next season because he could've left in April 2023 to the same effect. No one is calling this a roster crisis, it's simply the loss of a potentially useful rotation player late in the year when there aren't many replacements to be found. There's no way, shape, or form in which this helps them in the short or long term.

Bottom line, saying that adding a walk-on would be better is factually incorrect. Saying that he's just a guy they "took a flier on" and it didn't work out is factually incorrect. Saying that it improves their roster flexibility beyond this year is factually incorrect. You are throwing out a lot of things that are simply wrong and pretending otherwise.

Nothing too complicated here.

They added Farabello and Schierman. He's not playing more this season and that's why he's leaving. Classic getting recruited over, realizing he's not going to play nearly as much as he likes and he leaves. Not rocket science.

Read my posts - I never talked about roster flexibility this year. I've said multiple times it gives them an opportunity for more flexibility to take a mid season transfer or recruit more expansively moving forward. You created this narrative and are arguing against yourself.

[The Sultan]

They added Farabello and Schierman. He's not playing more this season and that's why he's leaving. Classic getting recruited over, realizing he's not going to play nearly as much as he likes and he leaves. Not rocket science.

What? That's a completely different argument than the one you were making just over a hour ago. 

[jfp61]

Again, he played significantly more than three people who are on their roster this year.

Yes he played more than guys who were injured.  Christofilis, Mitchell, and Miller were hurt. And then he really played because nemhard got hurt at the end.

[The Sultan]

Yes he played more than guys who were injured.  Christofilis, Mitchell, and Miller were hurt. And then he really played because nemhard got hurt at the end.

He was playing well more than the three returners before they were hurt.  Let's use Christofilis as an example.  Before he was hurt in early February, he played in 13 of 19 games for a a total of 52 minutes played. 

Rati played in all 19 for a total of 174 minutes.