Post Mortem

[bilsu]

We faded under Wojo, because we had enough offensive talent to win early in the season. As the season goes on good teams get more sound on offense and defense and good coaches can plan to take away the other teams strengths. With Howard Wojo could win early in the season. By time the second half of the Big East season started the other teams knew how to counter Howard, so we fade into obscurity.

Shaka just wanted to create havoc, which works well when the opposing team is still learning to play. By the end of the season havoc does not work well, especially in NCAA tournament where you are only going to play sound teams.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Getting blown out by UNC, one could rationalize. Getting blown out by DePaul, that was the season being flushed. This season hit its inflection point way before the NCAAT.

One month made the season and it was a good month. Scoop was obsessing over being a 3 or 4 seed. Kolek was crowned the best PG since Diener. In the end, Morsell was the only rostered player who had consistently started at a high D1 school before the season.

Regression to the mean including the coaching staff who stubbornly stuck to their system despite clear signs their offense and defense had been figured out. A NCAAT notch was a big one for Year 1. Let's get on to Year 2 as I don't want a Texas step back.

[CountryRoads]

I went with number 3 (figured out). I think Shaka was too stubborn and didn't make enough changes down the stretch. We became easy to game plan for. I think we should have gone small ball with this group at the end.

[wadesworld]

I went with number 3 (figured out). I think Shaka was too stubborn and didn't make enough changes down the stretch. We became easy to game plan for. I think we should have gone small ball with this group at the end.

With who though?  Joplin at the 5?  That just hurts a defense that was awful down the stretch.  He tried to have Morsell run more of the offense as Kolek became less effective, but Morsell is not a guy who's great initiating the offense.

We just don't have the horses right now.  Shaka did the best he could for a year one.  My concern is he didn't bring in top end talent for year two, and he loses for sure one of the two top end talents on the roster, and possibly both.

[Goose]

1SE

My saying those guys gave 100% was more related in the scope of the team. I can say Elliott gave 100% but I think it was not team oriented all of the time, same with a number of other guys. I think the effort was there for the most part, but think it was less team oriented the last month plus of the season. I am not going to say purposely allowed the team to implode, but I think he has a great deal of tape to share showing team play vs. non team play to the guys coming back.

Speaking of guys coming back, I am somewhat surprised we have not heard that any guys are leaving MU. To be honest, I am not sure if that is a good thing or a bad.

[PGsHeroes32]

There was no "one thing" that caused us to slide. I think Goose's multi-faceted post is the best summary, but others here have offered insightful takes as well.

Although the Baylor/UNC game ended up in OT due to a furious rally by Baylor (sparked by the ejection of a UNC player), the high-water mark of 25 that UNC achieved convinced me that part of our being stomped by UNC was due to an opponent that was radically improved from its earlier season performances. If the committee still considered late season performances, UNC would have almost certainly been seeded higher and we might have been a 10- 11 seed. We never would have met on the court. This is not meant as an excuse for the record blowout.

I'm not a fan of blaming "bad luck" on losses, but I will make an exception here regarding Marquette's draws in this year's and previous NCAA matchups. We faced superstar Ja Morant and then another time a South Carolina team who's best player had to sit out much of their season but was ready for the tourney and  a trip to the Final Four. Let's put the embarrassing loss to UNC in perspective, but should we have been able to get closer than 32 points? Yes.

Different variations of "bad draws".

But honestly even going back to the Buzz and Crean days of the last 15 years. Weve never really been fortunate in the tournament with draws/things not playing to seeding.

2012 the 2 seed got wiped out for us. But  that simply just made us play a terrible match up Florida.

BYU that year was a great match up draw though. But even that game, most pundits had Byu/Iona as a trendy 14 seed upset pick because they mostly only got a 14 since thats all that would work for the Mormons. They were not a 14.

[Hards Alumni]

I have. Living rent free in your head. Must be one of those who settle for lame excuses. Team blew it big time last month of season so start the rationalization.

Believe me when I say this willie; I never give you a single thought outside of your constant Eeyore comments on this board.

[GoldenEagles03]

Let me stop you right there.  Since that ill-fated night in New Orleans in 2003, we have seen much much more disappointment than last week.  So much so that the UNC game doesn't even register in my top 10.

Perhaps you've forgotten the Lopez twins blowing us up in 2008 to shut down our run.

or

The next year when we had a 6 seed and lost to 11th ranked Washington.

or

in 2012 as a 3 seed, getting upset by 7 Florida (Our best team since 2003, though debateable)

or

in 2019 when 5 seeded Marquette got it doors blown off by 12 seeded Ja Morant.

So, to me, this game was a blip.  It doesn't even register as a 4 of 10 on the pain scale.  We were playing with house money and we lost.  No big deal.

How about scoring 30 points with a trip to the Final Four on the line in 2013?

Getting blown out by South Carolina in South Carolina in 2017?

Lazar Hayward stepping over the inbounds line to prevent the Big 3 an opportunity at the Sweet 16?

Blowing a double digit lead in 2019 in the Big East Semi-Final against Seton Hall?

Losing 5 in a row to blow the Conference title in 2019?

The list goes on and on. Last week wasn't even bad.

[Hards Alumni]

How about scoring 30 points with a trip t ok the Final Four on the line in 2013?

Getting blown out by South Carolina in South Carolina?

Lazar Hayward stepping over the inbounds line to prevent the Big 3 an opportunity at the Sweet 16?

Blowing a double digit lead in 2019 in the Big East Semi-Final against Seton Hall?

Losing 5 in a row to blow the Conference title in 2019?

The list goes on and on. Last week wasn't even bad.

Precisely.

[MU82]

Obviously time to fire Shaka. Feb/March fade means he is the exact same as Wojo.

Sources say Wardle's available and ready!

[jfp61]

Shot making. Being lucky in January. During our 7 game win streak we lost the last 4 straight games on Shot Quaility.

SHU Home- actual score was 73-72 SQ score was 66-67 L
Nova Away- actual score was 57-54 SQ score was 54-64 L
Xavier Home- actual score was 75-64 SQ score was 68-72 L
SHU Away- actual score was 73-63 SQ score was 58-66 L

Our conference play shot making, and shot making defense, relative to the quality of shots we allowed was 1st (both on offense and defense) through the first 10 games of conference play.

It was unsustainable.  We shot 41% from three over those games. 6% above the expected percentage. Our opponents shot 30% from three. 3% under the expected percentage. Our finishing at the rim was also 11% above the expected percentage over those games.

It flipped on us. The process of this Marquette team never really changed. Over the rest of the season we shot 32.6% from three, 1.5% below the expected percentage. Our Rim finishing went down a little. Our opponents shot 34% from three. 2% above the expected percentage.

The North Carolina game is a great example of this. We lost 95-63. Our SQ result was 87-74 L.

Are their other factors at play, sure. Two of our three seniors were playing their worst basketball at the end of the season.
Our coaches needed tighten rotations more.  And overall this team needs to get on the offensive glass more and draw more fouls than they did this year.

But overall it was shot making, as trivial as it may seem.

[dgies9156]

Gang, UNC was bad, period. WE FAILED!

Shame is the appropriate emotion for Marquette after the UNC Debacle.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, compares to the debacle that was Miami of Ohio in March 1978. That was the worst and probably de-sensitized me to the problems that were, at the time, coming attractions. The UNC game was no where near that bad but, folks, don't get me wrong, it's like saying murder and cannibalism is worse than murder. Both are awful!

This year's roster was put together almost at the last minute. There was some hope DJ might have come back. When he didn't, Tyler Kolek became our point guard and Morsell entered the picture. I kind of believed Coach Shaka thought he had a chance of keeping Dawson Garcia too. When he didn't, we ended up with OMax. While we flunked the final, I actually give Coach Shaka a world of credit for getting as much as he did from JLew and Oso. In particular, Oso's growth from an enigma on the last coach's roster to an important part of Coach Shaka's rotations speaks volumes to what Coach Shaka is doing.

I share Brother Goose's view that Coach Shaka is the real thing. I sure hope so as he's, on paper, the guy we've been waiting for -- for a long time. He looks to be someone who can build a program and will stay with us for 20+ years.

JUST FIX IT!!!!! This should be our motto for 2022-2023.

[hawk]

The team didn't shoot very well and didn't rebound almost at all.  The team's bigs look like pipe cleaners.  the team needs to get bigger ,stronger, rebound better and figure out what a good shot looks like.  It is no surprise that a team that depends on a high volum of steals and turn overs to offset lack of shooting and rebounding would be vulnerable to the seeming random blowout.  Especialy given that the team turns the ball over 12 plus times a game themselves.  Not rocket science.

[The Sultan]

Gang, UNC was bad, period.

What?

[jaygall31]

Kam losing minutes to Greg wasn't ideal.

[Viper]

Amen.

you and Farley, spot on. My concern is attitude. By the first tv timeout vs UNC it seemed the fight, the will to win, with the exception of a player or two, was gone. The team tapped out. How else do you explain such an a$$ kick? Leadership within the team? As I recall, Marquette made nice comebacks at UConn and at Butler, only to fall short. Otherwise, imo if you throw a jab hook combo at MU early, the corner will waive the white towel. Talent for sure, but the mental aspect of the game is huge.

[4everwarriors]

Last time I looked, UNC is playing in the Sweet 16 this weekend. What's bad was our talent. Put it another way, Shaka highly overachieved given the stiffs he was working with. And, I discount last Spring's recruiting class, given the timing of his hire and such. No doubt, Smart is the right man at the right time to drive the Uptown train, aina?

[jaygall31]

Greg is for sure gone right?

[4everwarriors]

Keepin' my fingers crossed, hey?

[The Sultan]

Greg is for sure gone right?

From your lips to God's ears.

[rocky_warrior]

What?

Wording.  I believe he's saying "[MU's performance against] UNC was bad, period."

[The Sultan]

Last time I looked, UNC is playing in the Sweet 16 this weekend. What's bad was our talent. Put it another way, Shaka highly overachieved given the stiffs he was working with. And, I discount last Spring's recruiting class, given the timing of his hire and such. No doubt, Smart is the right man at the right time to drive the Uptown train, aina?

I'm not going to give him the complete "not enough talent" pass because IMO I think the team lacked defensively what it was doing earlier in the year and that was more about effort than anything else.

But for people saying that Shaka was being "subborn," I am not exactly sure what people expected him to do.  He had inexperienced and incomplete point guards, post players getting tossed around like rag dolls, one-trick ponies like Joplin and Jones coming off the bench, and his first team BE player going REAL cold when it mattered most. 

[mileskishnish72]

Reading this whole thread is depressing as hell. It's a catalog of our failures, embarrassments and screw-ups over a long, long time span. Been around for all of them. I guess the first big one for me was the OSU screw job with the Dream fouling out. One thing seems clear - MU doesn't get it done a hell of a lot more often than it does, and when they don't, they do it in mortifying ways.

I'm with the guys who don't rank this latest as a biggie. New coach, kind of a last-minute roster, many news faces, not much experience - getting to the dance constitutes an achievement.

I'm also with the guys who are worried about next year, and the ongoing years. The incoming frosh are not dripping with high ratings, and none of them are likely to help our woeful rebounding. The transfers are going to be key, but we have to get better on the glass. It's great to stress defense, defense, and defense but when the opponents get an offensive rebound, that's what their possessions turn into - defense, defense again, and defense again. Even a top-notch D can't get you W's like that.

Maybe this is the time frame when we see what Shaka's got. I think we'll be in a much better position to evaluate Shaka in a year's time.

[mileskishnish72]

Last time I looked, UNC is playing in the Sweet 16 this weekend. What's bad was our talent. Put it another way, Shaka highly overachieved given the stiffs he was working with. And, I discount last Spring's recruiting class, given the timing of his hire and such. No doubt, Smart is the right man at the right time to drive the Uptown train, aina?

4ever, I didn't see this when I was typing. Impressive! You've gotten away from the lame schtick -
good for you!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Greg is for sure gone right?

On senior night he made some comments about this being his last game at the Fiserv. Could certianly change his mind but it sounds like he is moving on.