2022 Transfer Portal Thread

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So, even though Marquette was one of Noah Carter's finalists, Shaka wasn't even mildly serious about him?

Noah Carter's visit to MU was cancelled...if it was ever even scheduled...just a couple weeks before Wrightsil committed.  Those events were definitely connected.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

As for your players tweet/leak idea, are you suggesting players are lying about the schools that are reaching out to them, or that schools - especially Marquette, it seems - spend their time contacting players they don't want?

I think Marquette casts a broad net early.  I mean, connecting with a guy on Twitter doesn't take all that much time and it makes no sense to wait.  They then zero in on the guys they want after doing due diligence. 

[Pakuni]

Noah Carter's visit to MU was cancelled...if it was ever even scheduled...just a couple weeks before Wrightsil committed.  Those events were definitely connected.

He canceled all his other visits after spending a weekend at Mizzou and committing there. That was before Wrightsil visited MU.

Regardless of whether Carter canceled because Marquette chose Wrightsil first or Carter chose Mizzou over MU, the fact remains he was involved enough with MU that he planned a visit and included us in his finalists. That would seem odd for a player that MU wasn't "mildly serious" about, don't you think?
Or maybe he just needed to drop MU's name to seem more coveted than he was.   

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

He canceled all his other visits after spending a weekend at Mizzou and committing there. That was before Wrightsil visited MU.

Regardless of whether Carter canceled because Marquette chose Wrightsil first or Carter chose Mizzou over MU, the fact remains he was involved enough with MU that he planned a visit and included us in his finalists. That would seem odd for a player that MU wasn't "mildly serious" about, don't you think?
Or maybe he just needed to drop MU's name to seem more coveted than he was.   

Wrightsil's only visit was to Marquette.  He never planned any others.  I think it became apparent that once there was strong, mutual interest, Marquette backed off pretty quickly from Carter.

[brewcity77]

He canceled all his other visits after spending a weekend at Mizzou and committing there. That was before Wrightsil visited MU.

Regardless of whether Carter canceled because Marquette chose Wrightsil first or Carter chose Mizzou over MU, the fact remains he was involved enough with MU that he planned a visit and included us in his finalists. That would seem odd for a player that MU wasn't "mildly serious" about, don't you think?
Or maybe he just needed to drop MU's name to seem more coveted than he was.

Carter announced his top-5 on March 31 but on April 5th said that he was going to visit Marquette but didn't have a date set. On April 10th, he said Marquette "dropped off his list." FWIW by April 10th it was pretty clear Wrightsil was going to commit here, even though he hadn't visited yet.

Seems like we kicked the tires, decided on someone else, and told him Milwaukee was no longer an option.

https://missouri.rivals.com/news/noah-carter-talks-mizzou-visit-future-plans

[Uncle Rico]

I wouldn’t read much into Final 5 lists, etc

[WhiteTrash]

Fact is - 90 percent of schools are non factors in NIL as it stands now.

We haven’t lost any players to NIL deals yet and I don’t anticipate losing many because we’re not going after those guys anyways.

We weren’t going after guys looking to get paid before NIL and we’re not in the market for guys looking for NIL deals now.

I do think that we need to adapt to NIL or be left in the dust in the coming years, but as it stands now, it’s just lots of hand wringing over a barely existent issue.

*clarification - not an issue in college basketball. Much more prevalent already in CFB.

IF you are correct, the pro-NIL people are going to loos their minds. This would mean 90% of schools can continue screwing the kids over in what some have called modern day slavery.

Personally, I think you are minimizing the impact of NIL. I'm in favor of NIL and I feel it will move the needle significantly. Just my opinion. 

[jfp61]

So, even though Marquette was one of Noah Carter's finalists, Shaka wasn't even mildly serious about him?

As for your players tweet/leak idea, are you suggesting players are lying about the schools that are reaching out to them, or that schools - especially Marquette, it seems - spend their time contacting players they don't want?

I forgot about him. Brewcity has the timeline right. Felt like MU choose Wrigthsil (Or wrightsil and washington) over him even if Carter technically committed first.

Carter announced his top-5 on March 31 but on April 5th said that he was going to visit Marquette but didn't have a date set. On April 10th, he said Marquette "dropped off his list." FWIW by April 10th it was pretty clear Wrightsil was going to commit here, even though he hadn't visited yet.

Seems like we kicked the tires, decided on someone else, and told him Milwaukee was no longer an option.

https://missouri.rivals.com/news/noah-carter-talks-mizzou-visit-future-plans

As for if I think Marquette spends time "contacting players they don't want." Sometimes. But i view guys liking to report that Marquette contacted them is a good thing.  I don't think it was a coincidence that local recruits like Cartier and Hunter were called and then not followed up on. (i understand hunter didn't want to come anyways.) With the way the portal works, you call anyone who might fit the team the second they enter the portal, and then the staff has meetings over whether a player might fit or not. This isn't a new thing either. Normal recruiting works the same

Marquette recruits 10-20 guys in each class that they wont offer.  In the past power conference teams have even offered players they don't want. Maryland and Depaul have offered the whole state of Wisconsin at points in time.

[Pakuni]

Carter announced his top-5 on March 31 but on April 5th said that he was going to visit Marquette but didn't have a date set. On April 10th, he said Marquette "dropped off his list." FWIW by April 10th it was pretty clear Wrightsil was going to commit here, even though he hadn't visited yet.

Seems like we kicked the tires, decided on someone else, and told him Milwaukee was no longer an option.

https://missouri.rivals.com/news/noah-carter-talks-mizzou-visit-future-plans

Again, my point has nothing to do with whether Shaka preferred Carter over Wrightsil or vice-versa. My point is he recruits more players than many here seem to believe, and isn't exclusively in search of unicorns that "fit" some totally unique thing he's doing at Marquette.

[brewcity77]

Again, my point has nothing to do with whether Shaka preferred Carter over Wrightsil or vice-versa. My point is he recruits more players than many here seem to believe, and isn't exclusively in search of unicorns that "fit" some totally unique thing he's doing at Marquette.

And my point is that he was pretty selective. He reached out early when we had an opening, seemed to shut down most recruitments once they knew they had Wrightsil, and have been virtually silent since, only inquiring with guys who, like Justin, were in the draft pool and thus on a different timetable.

This was far from a wide net.

[panda]

IF you are correct, the pro-NIL people are going to loos their minds. This would mean 90% of schools can continue screwing the kids over in what some have called modern day slavery.

Personally, I think you are minimizing the impact of NIL. I'm in favor of NIL and I feel it will move the needle significantly. Just my opinion.

I’m not minimizing NIL - to clarify, I see a small segment of basketball programs throwing around serious NIL dollars. The majority of hoops programs across the country are in the same boat as us - Haven’t figured out details but are totally open to NIL. It’s not yet separating any programs or been the catastrophe some around here are portraying.

[Ben Golds Five]

There's a whole unnatural carnal knowledgeing thread on NIL. Can't you take that crap over there?

[Tha Hound]

Are you sure?

Yes, given the information reported at the time that was available to the public, that is what happened. Unless you have some inside information you would like to share with us? The "look at me, I know what really happened and will allude to it but won't tell" act is so tired.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Yes, given the information reported at the time that was available to the public, that is what happened. Unless you have some inside information you would like to share with us? The "look at me, I know what really happened and will allude to it but won't tell" act is so tired.

I'm not talking about "inside" information.  I'm talking about what is available to the public. We cast a wide net in March/early April, we zeroed in on Wrightsil and Washington,  got one and missed on the other. There been barely a mention of us with any transfer since then.

You translated that as Shaka wanted all these transfers and whiffed on all of them.  I translate it as Shaka identified his top two targets and got 1/2. We'll see if his strategy pays off

[brewcity77]

Yes, given the information reported at the time that was available to the public, that is what happened. Unless you have some inside information you would like to share with us? The "look at me, I know what really happened and will allude to it but won't tell" act is so tired.

Again, I would point to the Wrightsil commitment as the timeline. I'll just go with public knowledge:

• Late March-Early April: Marquette reaches out to Fardaws Aimaq, Kendal Coleman, Taylor Funk, Ali Ali, Cam Hayes, Landers Nolley, Luis Rodriguez, Nijel Pack, Manny Bates, Patrick Cartier, Alex Tchikou, Bryce Hopkins, Alex Fudge. None of these seemed to get very far, so likely just kicking the tires.
  
• March 31: Visits are known to be in the works for Zach Wrightsil and Noah Carter. Warren Washington seems to be the other serious option.
  
• April 7: Marquette schedules visit with Wrightsil.
  
• April 10: Marquette suddenly no longer an option for Noah Carter, visit cancelled.
  
• April 13: Carter commits to Mizzou.
  
• April 14: Wrightsil visits Marquette.
  
• April 15: Washington says he will visit Marquette, date not scheduled.
  
• April 17: Wrightsil commits to Marquette.
  
• April 19: Washington commits to Arizona State.
  
• April 20: Efe Abogidi (in NBA Draft) confirms Marquette interest.
  
• April 25: Courtney Ramey (in NBA Draft) confirms Marquette interest.
  
• May 5: Mouhamed Gueye (in NBA Draft) has Marquette interest.

You can believe what you want. I know who I trust and who generally has good information. But if you look strictly at the timeline, Marquette made a bunch of inquiries early. Once they had Wrightsil confirmed to visit, Carter suddenly said we weren't in the mix anymore. Once Wrightsil committed, Washington did the same. And after Wrightsil committed, the only three new names or consistent names were guys that were, like Justin Lewis, in the NBA Draft pool.

Personally, I don't think there's a link between Wrightsil and Washington. My guess is the ASU campus wowed Warren and he went with it. But I have little doubt that Marquette chose Wrightsil over Carter and after Wrightsil committed, only kept in touch with a few guys who were also in the NBA Draft pool so they could at least pick up the phone if Justin stayed in the process. As it happens, Abogidi is going G League, Ramey is going elsewhere, and Gueye is going back to Wazzu. So we go forward with what we have.

I'd guess the team would've taken one more proven body if one of those three had been available. But if they were really aggressive in this transfer portal, we would've seen a lot more names after the Wrightsil visit and commit became official, and that simply isn't the case. We reached out early, then when we got the guy we got, mostly shut it down except for people that were going through the same thing (and thus on the same timeline) that Justin was.

The dots aren't that hard to connect, even if you have no inside information.

[Pakuni]

And my point is that he was pretty selective. He reached out early when we had an opening, seemed to shut down most recruitments once they knew they had Wrightsil, and have been virtually silent since, only inquiring with guys who, like Justin, were in the draft pool and thus on a different timetable.

This was far from a wide net.

I'm doing a terrible job here explaining myself, because you're not understanding the point I'm making.
I'm not arguing whether the staff preferred one player over another. I'm not arguing that they didn't narrow their focus after casting a wide net initially. I'm not commenting at all on Shaka's recruiting abilities.
I'm arguing that the things we keep reading here about "fit" and "culture" are mostly nonsense. Not that Shaka doesn't care about culture and fit  ... of course does, just like every other coach cares about their own brand of culture and fit ... but that his culture is somehow so unique that it's extra hard to find players that "fit." And that explains his mediocre recruiting results so far.
I don't think that's true. I don't think that Shaka is creating some unique culture and I don't think there's a lack of quality players who would fit the culture he is creating.

[panda]

I'm doing a terrible job here explaining myself, because you're not understanding the point I'm making.
I'm not arguing whether the staff preferred one player over another. I'm not arguing that they didn't narrow their focus after casting a wide net initially. I'm not commenting at all on Shaka's recruiting abilities.
I'm arguing that the things we keep reading here about "fit" and "culture" are mostly nonsense. Not that Shaka doesn't care about culture and fit  ... of course does, just like every other coach cares about their own brand of culture and fit ... but that his culture is somehow so unique that it's extra hard to find players that "fit." And that explains his mediocre recruiting results so far.
I don't think that's true. I don't think that Shaka is creating some unique culture and I don't think there's a lack of quality players who would fit the culture he is creating.

Shaka is a mediocre recruiter screams of 2012 Seahawks day after draft grades.

https://seattle.sbnation.com/2012/4/29/2985799/nfl-draft-grades-2012-seahawks

[Pakuni]

Shaka is a mediocre recruiter screams of 2012 Seahawks day after draft grades.

https://seattle.sbnation.com/2012/4/29/2985799/nfl-draft-grades-2012-seahawks

Reading isn't hard, is it?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I'm doing a terrible job here explaining myself, because you're not understanding the point I'm making.
I'm not arguing whether the staff preferred one player over another. I'm not arguing that they didn't narrow their focus after casting a wide net initially. I'm not commenting at all on Shaka's recruiting abilities.
I'm arguing that the things we keep reading here about "fit" and "culture" are mostly nonsense. Not that Shaka doesn't care about culture and fit  ... of course does, just like every other coach cares about their own brand of culture and fit ... but that his culture is somehow so unique that it's extra hard to find players that "fit." And that explains his mediocre recruiting results so far.
I don't think that's true. I don't think that Shaka is creating some unique culture and I don't think there's a lack of quality players who would fit the culture he is creating.

And no one has said what you are saying. No one has said that there aren't many quality players who could fit into what Shaka is doing or that they explain "his mediocre recruiting results". What people have said is that Shaka values fit over talent. So there will be times that Shaka takes a less talented player who fits his culture better than a more talented player who doesn't fit as well. Which you are right, is not unique to Marquette at all. Many coaches employ this approach while others try to roll the ball out and out talent the other team. Neither is better, both are completely valid ways to win.

The only way that Shaka has had "mediocre recruiting results" is if your only criteria is what they were rated out out of high school. Recruiting is about landing players you can win with, not players with the most amount of stars next to their name. Shaka's results in year 1 were pretty good. We will see if he continues to be an effective recruiter.

Culture isn't just about what a player can do on the court. If it was, we'd be talking about systems, not culture. Buzz was a coach with no system. He assembled his roster and installed a new gameplan every season to match the pieces he had. But he 100% had a culture and recruited players who would respond well to his style of coaching. Shaka has a system and a culture. This again is not unique to Shaka, though Shaka has own particular brand (as all coaches do). There was recently an article about Zaide Lowery's recruitment, and the lengths Shaka and staff went to gather information about what Lowery was like off the court and how his coach who has coached several D1 players, had never seen anything like it. Shaka really values that stuff. That doesn't mean that our players are better people. Or that we are somehow superior to other programs. It also doesn't mean that if miss out on a recruit it automatically means it was because he wasn't a cultural fit. It just means that Shaka isn't lying when tells us over and over again how important this is to him and that this is how he plans to win. We will see if he can execute.

[Uncle Rico]

Transfers, huh?

[panda]

Reading isn't hard, is it?

How do you judge his mediocre recruiting after one full season ? Especially after players he recruited last season brought them to the post season?

[Pakuni]

And no one has said what you are saying. No one has said that there aren't many quality players who could fit into what Shaka is doing

Respectfully, the post that led us down this road (again) reads:

"Shaka said at least a month ago that there were very few players out there that he felt fit what he is trying to do at MU."

The only way that Shaka has had "mediocre recruiting results" is if your only criteria is what they were rated out out of high school. Recruiting is about landing players you can win with, not players with the most amount of stars next to their name. Shaka's results in year 1 were pretty good. We will see if he continues to be an effective recruiter.

I'm not sure how else we can judge Shaka's recruiting at this point except by comparing where the players he lands are rated relative to their peers, as well as initial performance of the players he brings in.
If you're making the case that we shouldn't make any judgements for a few years, fair enough. Though I suspect that if MU were landing top 50 kids left and right, we'd all be here talking about how Shaka is killing it on the recruiting trail, not downplaying the rankings.
Also, I would suggest there's a pretty strong relationship between the number of stars next to a player's name and the likelihood you'll win with him. The programs that consistently win conference titles and play the second weekend aren't doing so with three stars leading the way.

  It just means that Shaka isn't lying when tells us over and over again how important this is to him and that this is how he plans to win. We will see if he can execute.

And no one has said otherwise.

[brewcity77]

The only way that Shaka has had "mediocre recruiting results" is if your only criteria is what they were rated out out of high school. Recruiting is about landing players you can win with, not players with the most amount of stars next to their name. Shaka's results in year 1 were pretty good. We will see if he continues to be an effective recruiter.

This is why, in my opinion, Bo Ryan is the most underrated recruiter I've ever seen. Forget the star ratings, he found guys that he could develop and fit his system and rode them to top-4 Big 10 finish after top-4 Big 10 finish, with some Final Fours tacked on at the end. Yes, he landed the occasional big name, but for the most part, it was low four stars, three stars, and two stars that he made it work with.

Find the guys you win with. We'll see if he can keep doing that.

[jfp61]

Ramey is ending up at arizona

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

This is why, in my opinion, Bo Ryan is the most underrated recruiter I've ever seen. Forget the star ratings, he found guys that he could develop and fit his system and rode them to top-4 Big 10 finish after top-4 Big 10 finish, with some Final Fours tacked on at the end. Yes, he landed the occasional big name, but for the most part, it was low four stars, three stars, and two stars that he made it work with.

Find the guys you win with. We'll see if he can keep doing that.

Bo Ryan was also ahead of the curve in some areas that modern analytics value.  He emphasized limiting turnovers, which ties in to the value of a possession.

Ryan also had his post players shooting threes before most.  Many big men shoot 3s nowadays, but when Wisconsin started doing it the concept was seen as a novelty.

Ryan also understood the value of volume three point shooting.  Sure, a bad shooting night cost them at times, but it also helped Wisconsin maximize their scoring.

Ryan emphasized efficiency and turned it into Wisconsin's brand.