Author Topic: 2023 Coaching Carousel (Read 105508 times)

Pakuni · « **Reply #225 on:** March 16, 2022, 04:43:37 PM »

Quote from: JWags85 on March 16, 2022, 03:33:50 PM

Fine. Olsen’s last 10 years he made the second weekend 5 times, 3 E8s, a S16 and the runner up. 3 outright conference titles and a shared title.

In the 10 seasons after his initial rebuilding season, Miller also made 5 second weekends (3 E8s and 2 S16). He had 4 outright conference titles and 1 shared.

The idea that Miller’s performance was some sort of step down, literally only apart from a F4, is just patently false.

But aren't you comparing the best 10 years of Miller's tenure with the waning years of Olson's, only to reach the conclusion that Miller's was still worse, just not vastly worse?
Obvioisly Lute had a much longer run at Arizona, but judging by only his final 10 years, as opposed to something like the middle 10, allows you to eliminate other Final Four trips and a national title in making this comparison.

shoothoops · « **Reply #226 on:** March 16, 2022, 04:49:07 PM »

Quote from: JWags85 on March 16, 2022, 04:09:30 PM

Good lord you love to “well actually” argue for the sake of arguing.

It totally matters cause Miller’s performance was more or less exceptional by any metric, unless a fan base has expectations set by a previous coach. And hence why I mentioned the end of Olsen’s tenure where the program was built and thriving.

Congrats on that big W for Moser last night. A moment of pride for all totally impartial St Louisans

You are taking something simple, and making it much more difficult. Instead of simply advocating for Sean Miller, you made it a comparison between Sean Miller and Lute Olson. And in that apples to oranges comparison, Miller is going to come up short. Instead, you double and triple downed about it, and then gaslighted to change the subject.

Oh, and it’s Olson by the way, not Olsen. After 3 different posts, perhaps it’s more than just a typo.

Uncle Rico · « **Reply #227 on:** March 16, 2022, 04:51:00 PM »

Wheeeee

JWags85 · « **Reply #228 on:** March 16, 2022, 04:54:27 PM »

Quote from: Pakuni on March 16, 2022, 04:43:37 PM

But aren't you comparing the best 10 years of Miller's tenure with the waning years of Olson's, only to reach the conclusion that Miller's was still worse, just not vastly worse?
Obvioisly Lute had a much longer run at Arizona, but judging by only his final 10 years, as opposed to something like the middle 10, allows you to eliminate other Final Four trips and a national title in making this comparison.

I'm not in any way trying to diminish Lute's tenure. He built something absolutely remarkable. I was solely trying to speak to White Trash's anecdote about his Zona friend saying that Miller didn't win enough in the NCAAs, so thats why they were ready to be done with him. Miller had more second weekend appearances in that 10 year run than many good coaches have in a career.

I don't think anyone is trying to equate Sean Miller to an absolute legend like Lute, but he certainly didn't have Zona falling off in any way the majority of his tenure (at least purely on the court)

rocky_warrior · « **Reply #229 on:** March 16, 2022, 04:55:28 PM »

This is odd. I didn't know Lute had STL connections.

Uncle Rico · « **Reply #230 on:** March 16, 2022, 04:56:21 PM »

Quote from: JWags85 on March 16, 2022, 04:54:27 PM

I'm not in any way trying to diminish Lute's tenure. He built something absolutely remarkable. I was solely trying to speak to White Trash's anecdote about his Zona friend saying that Miller didn't win enough in the NCAAs, so thats why they were ready to be done with him. Miller had more second weekend appearances in that 10 year run than many good coaches have in a career.

I don't think anyone is trying to equate Sean Miller to an absolute legend like Lute, but he certainly didn't have Zona falling off in any way the majority of his tenure (at least purely on the court)

Plus, Lute cheated, too

Frenns Liquor Depot · « **Reply #231 on:** March 16, 2022, 04:59:38 PM »

Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 16, 2022, 04:56:21 PM

Plus, Lute cheated, too

I thought they pretty much all cheat.

Uncle Rico · « **Reply #232 on:** March 16, 2022, 05:02:16 PM »

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 16, 2022, 04:59:38 PM

I thought they pretty much all cheat.

Except Greg Gard

Frenns Liquor Depot · « **Reply #233 on:** March 16, 2022, 05:03:59 PM »

Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 16, 2022, 05:02:16 PM

Except Greg Gard

Its the getting caught that Miller should be ridiculed for. Coach K and St Greg wouldn’t let that happen.

Uncle Rico · « **Reply #234 on:** March 16, 2022, 05:10:31 PM »

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 16, 2022, 05:03:59 PM

Its the getting caught that Miller should be ridiculed for. Coach K and St Greg wouldn’t let that happen.

Coach K has fall guys, he’s no dummy

Herman Cain · « **Reply #235 on:** March 16, 2022, 06:37:03 PM »

Quote from: Pakuni on March 16, 2022, 01:37:32 PM

He also goes into the market with zero winning conference seasons and zero tournament appearances in four years.
Between 1986 and 2018, X never missed back-to-back tournaments. Under Steele, they missed four straight.

Coach Steele Will have to go down a conference level or maybe two. A couple of openings in A-10. He may have to go down to the MAC.

Steele is a similar to Wojo in that he could bring in talent, but had a struggles putting it together to compete like the Xavier faithful demand given the resources the school has.

JWags85 · « **Reply #236 on:** March 16, 2022, 07:53:39 PM »

Quote from: Herman Cain on March 16, 2022, 06:37:03 PM

Coach Steele Will have to go down a conference level or maybe two. A couple of openings in A-10. He may have to go down to the MAC.

Steele is a similar to Wojo in that he could bring in talent, but had a struggles putting it together to compete like the Xavier faithful demand given the resources the school has.

I’d be fairly surprised to see him get a A-10 job. But MAC probably makes sense given his Indiana/Ohio roots.

MuggsyB · « **Reply #237 on:** March 16, 2022, 10:09:56 PM »

Quote from: Herman Cain on March 16, 2022, 06:37:03 PM

Coach Steele Will have to go down a conference level or maybe two. A couple of openings in A-10. He may have to go down to the MAC.

Steele is a similar to Wojo in that he could bring in talent, but had a struggles putting it together to compete like the Xavier faithful demand given the resources the school has.

Yep. Well said Herman.

brewcity77 · « **Reply #238 on:** March 17, 2022, 07:19:37 AM »

When it comes to NCAA infractions, something tells me once Xavier hires Sean Miller, everything will be just fine...just fine.

https://www.ncaa.org/news/2017/9/19/di-infractions-committee-welcomes-new-chair.aspx

Knight Commission · « **Reply #239 on:** March 17, 2022, 07:53:02 AM »

Heard Sean Miller was on Xs campus yesterday, fwiw. May be helping with search though. He was at a game earlier in the year as well.

StillAWarrior · « **Reply #240 on:** March 17, 2022, 07:57:56 AM »

Quote from: brewcity77 on March 17, 2022, 07:19:37 AM

When it comes to NCAA infractions, something tells me once Xavier hires Sean Miller, everything will be just fine...just fine.

https://www.ncaa.org/news/2017/9/19/di-infractions-committee-welcomes-new-chair.aspx

Oh my. That will be a really bad look for the NCAA (and Xavier) if they hire Miller. Not that it will matter.

Skip Intro · « **Reply #241 on:** March 17, 2022, 09:41:15 AM »

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 17, 2022, 07:57:56 AM

Oh my. That will be a really bad look for the NCAA (and Xavier) if they hire Miller. Not that it will matter.

Schools are looking at the success of Auburn and Houston right now and are realizing that past recruiting violations don't matter - hire a coach who is going to win. Fans don't care when there's no identifiable "victim".

The only scandals that seem to matter to a coach's career nowadays are either salacious (Bo Ryan, Pitino, heck Tyler Summit), or involve a cover-up of serious crimes by players (Baylor back in the day). I know it is beating a dead horse, but I don't think Buzz would have survived at any school had the 2010-2011 scandals happened even a few years later, and certainly not today.

PJDunn · « **Reply #242 on:** March 17, 2022, 09:57:12 AM »

Buzz should not have survived back then. Marquette's moral compass was a bit off during Brent's tenure. Mack back at XU would make things kind of interesting. He is a good coach. As others have pointed out in this thread, he just got caught.

jfp61 · « **Reply #243 on:** March 17, 2022, 10:42:22 AM »

Archie is likely going to Rhode Island.. that’s a good spot for him. One of the few A10 school someone can recruit at

MU82 · « **Reply #244 on:** March 17, 2022, 11:57:30 AM »

Criminal activity and academic fraud are the only things that really move the needle now. Paying athletes ... meh. And as we saw with UNC, even academic fraud doesn't matter at a lot of places.

Pakuni · « **Reply #245 on:** March 17, 2022, 12:26:57 PM »

Ben Howland out at Mississippi State.

Dr. Blackheart · « **Reply #246 on:** March 17, 2022, 01:58:59 PM »

Quote from: Skip Intro on March 17, 2022, 09:41:15 AM

Schools are looking at the success of Auburn and Houston right now and are realizing that past recruiting violations don't matter - hire a coach who is going to win. Fans don't care when there's no identifiable "victim".

The only scandals that seem to matter to a coach's career nowadays are either salacious (Bo Ryan, Pitino, heck Tyler Summit), or involve a cover-up of serious crimes by players (Baylor back in the day). I know it is beating a dead horse, but I don't think Buzz would have survived at any school had the 2010-2011 scandals happened even a few years later, and certainly not today.

Tom Izzo says hi