Inbound line violation question

[MU82]

First of all, Greg's violation hardly "cost us the game." We still would have had to get the ball into the frontcourt and make a miracle shot.

Second, Greg committed a violation that could have been avoided if he had just used proper inbounding fundamentals.

Third, the ref was standing right there. Greg made it damn easy for the ref to make that call.

Fourth, if we make a few layups down the stretch and don't have our 2 best players kicking the ball all over the court, maybe we don't need a desperation, length-of-court play to save us.

If Creighton committed a similar violation earlier in the game, well, the refs missed it and it sucks. That happens. It doesn't let Greg (and Shaka) off the hook for Marquette's screw-up. It's pretty funny watching fellow MU fans trying to make us out to be victims here.

It was a well-earned loss. We gave it away, and doing so was a team effort. Greg's mess-up was merely the nail in the coffin.

[THEbig0]

Confirmed, the nit pickiest call to potentially decide a game I have ever seen and probably will ever see.  I think that's why it bothers me so much. If he was over, it was measured by the tenths of inches.  And looking at the closeup I'm still not even sure he touched the line or his foot hovered over it enough to look like it was touching on the way down.  How on earth does that ref choose to make that call?

[BrewCity83]

First of all, Greg's violation hardly "cost us the game." We still would have had to get the ball into the frontcourt and make a miracle shot.

Didn't "cost us the game", but it ended any chance we had of winning the game.

[BrewCity83]

Confirmed, the nit pickiest call to potentially decide a game I have ever seen and probably will ever see.  I think that's why it bothers me so much. If he was over, it was measured by the tenths of inches.  And looking at the closeup I'm still not even sure he touched the line or his foot hovered over it enough to look like it was touching on the way down.  How on earth does that ref choose to make that call?

+1000

[MU82]

Didn't "cost us the game", but it ended any chance we had of winning the game.

Yep. So Greg shouldn't have committed the violation.

Confirmed, the nit pickiest call to potentially decide a game I have ever seen and probably will ever see.  I think that's why it bothers me so much. If he was over, it was measured by the tenths of inches.  And looking at the closeup I'm still not even sure he touched the line or his foot hovered over it enough to look like it was touching on the way down.  How on earth does that ref choose to make that call?

Yep. So Greg should have given himself more than a one-inch margin of error.

Blaming the refs in a game when our best and/or most experienced players messed up numerous times down the stretch is pretty good.

If not for the Marquette-hating refs all across America, we'd be 27-0 right now. Damn refs!

[BrewCity83]

Yep. So Greg shouldn't have committed the violation.

99 times out of 100 the ref doesn't consider what Greg did a violation.  And ESPECIALLY when it effectively ends the game.  You never see that call made unless the passer is clearly obviously over the line.  And Greg was not clearly over the line.

[MU82]

99 times out of 100 the ref doesn't consider what Greg did a violation.  And ESPECIALLY when it effectively ends the game.  You never see that call made unless the passer is clearly obviously over the line.  And Greg was not clearly over the line.

Greg committed a violation -- the last of the many screw-ups by Marquette's most experienced and/or best players (and perhaps our coach) that combined to cost us a game.

The baseline ref gets 0.00% of the blame for our well-earned defeat.

[BrewCity83]

The baseline ref gets 0.00% of the blame for our well-earned defeat.

False.

[Shooter McGavin]

Greg committed a violation -- the last of the many screw-ups by Marquette's most experienced and/or best players (and perhaps our coach) that combined to cost us a game.

The baseline ref gets 0.00% of the blame for our well-earned defeat.

I understand calling the over the line violation if he was over the line.  But on replay it didn't look like he was over.  So at the very least it looked like a bad call. 

Two layups cost us the game.  But we got fined for going exactly the speed limit by an over zealous police officer.

[MU82]

Waaaaa! Lewis and O-Max missed bunnies, Lewis and Morsell kicked the ball around, Kolek played so badly that the coach who loves him benched him for the last 12 1/2 minutes, and a 5th-year senior who shouldn't have had his toes anywhere near the baseline on a last-ditch play committed a boneheaded violation ... but waaaa! ... we lost because the refs hated Marquette! Waaaa!

[Jay Bee]

*5th year junior

[Shooter McGavin]

Waaaaa! Lewis and O-Max missed bunnies, Lewis and Morsell kicked the ball around, Kolek played so badly that the coach who loves him benched him for the last 12 1/2 minutes, and a 5th-year senior who shouldn't have had his toes anywhere near the baseline on a last-ditch play committed a boneheaded violation ... but waaaa! ... we lost because the refs hated Marquette! Waaaa!

I don't think anyone disputes MU lost the game on their own accord (at least I'm not).  That call should never have been made though.  That's my only point.  Strange call.

[MU82]

I don't think anyone disputes MU lost the game on their own accord (at least I'm not).  That call should never have been made though.  That's my only point.  Strange call.

That comment wasn't meant for you, Shooter. I think you and I happened to hit the post button at the exact same instant.

Although I will agree to disagree with you about the call. It looked like Greg stepped on the line to me.

*5th year junior

Yeah, haha ... I forgot. Maybe the refs hate the way Marquette classifies its basketball players, and that's why we're not 27-0!

[BrewCity83]

Again, as I said earlier in this thread:

"Didn't "cost us the game", but it ended any chance we had of winning the game." 

[Lighthouse 84]

KI don't know if anyone else saw it, and I've not been able to find the replay of the game yet to find the exact moment it happened, but with only a couple minutes to play (or less), Greg was inbounding the ball on the baseline under MU's basket.  The ref handed him the ball and Greg dropped it onto the baseline, picked it up and inbounded the ball.  Clearly a drop and not a dribble, with it looking like the ball hit the baseline.  It was not called, but I was screaming when it happened, thinking he just turned the ball over.

For a 7th year senior, he's got to do better than that....

[MU82]

Again, as I said earlier in this thread:

"Didn't "cost us the game", but it ended any chance we had of winning the game." 

The baseline ref gets 0.00% of the blame for our well-earned defeat. The final mistake was 100% on Greg (or maybe 50/50 on Greg and Shaka).

[BrewCity83]

The baseline ref gets 0.00% of the blame for our well-earned defeat.

False.

We can keep doing this as many times as you want, but just because you keep saying it's so doesn't make it so.

[MU82]

KI don't know if anyone else saw it, and I've not been able to find the replay of the game yet to find the exact moment it happened, but with only a couple minutes to play (or less), Greg was inbounding the ball on the baseline under MU's basket.  The ref handed him the ball and Greg dropped it onto the baseline, picked it up and inbounded the ball.  Clearly a drop and not a dribble, with it looking like the ball hit the baseline.  It was not called, but I was screaming when it happened, thinking he just turned the ball over.

For a 7th year senior, he's got to do better than that....

I did notice it, and I also thought it might have been a turnover.

In that situation, a ref has to quickly determine if the inbounder simply didn't hang onto the basketball after it was handed to him, or if the inbounder had control but lost it and the ball bounced on the baseline. If it's the latter, it's a violation. If it's the former, the ref usually will ask for the ball back and then hand it back to the player to re-start the process.

I haven't seen a replay, but in live action it looked like Greg might have gotten away with one there.

Which means that the Creighton-hating ref almost stole the game from Creighton. Luckily for CU, one of the other refs -- the one who hates Marquette -- maliciously stole the game from our heroes with 5.2 seconds to go.

[avid1010]

The baseline ref gets 0.00% of the blame for our well-earned defeat. The final mistake was 100% on Greg (or maybe 50/50 on Greg and Shaka).

The reffing was sh1t.  2x the fouls called on MU making it really difficult for MU down the stretch.  There were plays where Creighton was literally trying to use a foul and refs didn't call it.  Did MU still make some costly mistakes...of course.  That said, if the roles were reversed, and MU won a game that ended with a toe on the line, I can promise you I would 1) take the win 2) feel like the other team got screwed on the call.

[THEbig0]

Geez, it isn't about whether the ref robbed us or Greg screwed up to me, so no need to make these straw man arguments.  Was it a strange call - when it most often never gets called?  Yes. Last time I remember ever even seeing it was Lazar.  Was it very, very close to the point of perhaps needing review? Yes, which makes it even stranger.  Did it have a major impact on the game seeing as it was our last possession to really take the lead? Yes.  So I find it odd a ref chooses to make that call -  not that they were Marquette hating refs.  And is the rule just wonky? Yes.  The line is both in bounds (when you are out of bounds) or out of bounds (when you are in bounds).  And actually not even required by the rules. 

I'll stop now.

[MU82]

The reffing was sh1t.  2x the fouls called on MU making it really difficult for MU down the stretch.  There were plays where Creighton was literally trying to use a foul and refs didn't call it.  Did MU still make some costly mistakes...of course.  That said, if the roles were reversed, and MU won a game that ended with a toe on the line, I can promise you I would 1) take the win 2) feel like the other team got screwed on the call.

I've already said that I didn't think it was a well-officiated game and that we got the worst of it. I'm quite surprised you think the ref standing right there should have just ignored Greg's colossal mess-up, though.

OK ... I've said my piece. I wish we had won but we shot ourselves in the foot (and not just the one attached to Greg's toe) too many times. Others can have the last word in this thread.

We Are Marquette!

[rocky_warrior]

If he was over, it was measured by the tenths of inches.  And looking at the closeup I'm still not even sure he touched the line or his foot hovered over it enough to look like it was touching on the way down.

But also, if he shuffled his foot even a little bit, it would have been a travel.  Same effect.  His feet should not have been moving.

[lostpassword]

Had Greg actually executed the play, he'd have caught the ball on a full sprint some 75 feet from our offensive basket with about 4.5 seconds to go. Time for a few big dribbles and then maybe let fly a 25-30 footer.

I think this is underestimating how long 5 seconds is in that situation.  The inbound happened at 5.2 seconds.  That's penty of time to drive the distance.  Here's a full-court layup - defended with a change or direction - that took 4.7 from inbound to release: https://youtu.be/JZWIw0U7brU?t=73

Elliott had a half-second more than that.

[BrewCity83]

But also, if he shuffled his foot even a little bit, it would have been a travel.  Same effect.  His feet should not have been moving.

Yes, but he would have had to shuffle both feet for it to be a travel.  He still has a pivot foot on an inbound.

[rocky_warrior]

Yes, but he would have had to shuffle both feet for it to be a travel.  He still has a pivot foot on an inbound.

I don't know how to do a video capture, but just re-watched the last few seconds on YTTV and he actually did travel - took 3 steps.

edit:  there it is...  This link should take you the exact spot  @ 5:13 https://youtu.be/aHPowQYsnsQ?t=313
https://youtube.com/v/aHPowQYsnsQ?t=313