spring recruiting wish list

[Boone]

Assuming Lewis declares and Elliott leaves (5 years here is plenty), we need to get a 4 and 5 from grad transfer pool.

Oso neither protects the rim nor rebounds. Going w/only him and redshirt Itejere at the 5 is a recipe for disaster.

Can't expect another Lewis to fall in our lap, but a rebounding-oriented 4 is good enough. Expecting Joplin to improve and provide scoring from that spot

[Mu8891]

I agree with the list.

But, Joplin is about 6' 5".  Not gonna help much in the post.

[Stretchdeltsig]

I agree with the list.

But, Joplin is about 6' 5".  Not gonna help much in the post.

Did Joplin shrink? Per the roster he's 6'7". Keep in mind that 6'10" Henry Gold plays next year.  Do you really think Lewis is going any where next year. He stunk yesterday. He needs 2 more years at Marquette.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Did Joplin shrink? Per the roster he's 6'7". Keep in mind that 6'10" Henry Gold plays next year.  Do you really think Lewis is going any where next year. He stunk yesterday. He needs 2 more years at Marquette.

*Ben Gold

[wadesworld]

Rebounding, post defense, and talent.

[MU82]

Do you really think Lewis is going any where next year. He stunk yesterday. He needs 2 more years at Marquette.

Shows a complete lack of understanding of these situations.

Blue, Ellenson, Bailey and Carton also "needed" more time at Marquette, but they all said buy-bye anyway. And that's just our guys. Over the years, hundreds of college players who "needed" more time have instead gone pro. And, when they were eligible for the draft, high school players did, too.

As for Lewis ... good players do have bad games sometimes.

[brewcity77]

Hit up the WAC and try to get Fardaws Aimaq to replace Kur & Teddy Allen if Justin goes pro.

[Goose]

Guys come and guys go, all part of game today. I am not overly worried about who ends up leaving and believe we will have better roster a year from now. Plus, if either Omax or Oso can have 50% of the improvement Lewis had this year they will be very hard to defend.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Shows a complete lack of understanding of these situations.

Blue, Ellenson, Bailey and Carton also "needed" more time at Marquette, but they all said buy-bye anyway. And that's just our guys. Over the years, hundreds of college players who "needed" more time have instead gone pro. And, when they were eligible for the draft, high school players did, too.

As for Lewis ... good players do have bad games sometimes.

The  players you cited would have done better if they didn't drop out. Are you really a Marquette fan or a troll like you often seem?

[brewcity77]

The  players you cited would have done better if they didn't drop out.

There's no evidence of this. It seems unlikely they would get better training and preparation for the next level in college, where they have to split efforts between class and restricted training opportunities (NCAA limits how much you can practice/train, professional avenues do not).

I know we love the myth of guys not being ready and the idea they will improve at this level more than they would in the G-League or overseas, but I don't think there's much actual evidence showing it to be accurate.

[Uncle Rico]

The  players you cited would have done better if they didn't drop out. Are you really a Marquette fan or a troll like you often seem?

Lol

[panda]

Lol

It's an antiquated belief that you can only improve your game at the college level. Selfishly I want talented players to stay, but in this day and age, there are many more paths to the NBA which don't include college.

Frankly competing on a professional stage will more than likely turn into a better option overall than college in the future.

[MU82]

The  players you cited would have done better if they didn't drop out. Are you really a Marquette fan or a troll like you often seem?

You said: Do you really think Lewis is going any where next year. He stunk yesterday. He needs 2 more years at Marquette.

Again, it's not about whether or not the players would have done better if they didn't leave Marquette. Clearly, you didn't think Blue, Ellenson, Bailey and Carton would "drop out," either. But they did ... even though you thought they "needed" more time at Marquette.

I won't accuse you of being a troll, just a person who lacks basic understanding of the situation, and then doubles-down on his ignorance.

You also apparently don't know that "anywhere" is one word.

[wadesworld]

Most players who leave "early" aren't "ready" for the NBA.  They develop.

Not to mention, when you have weaknesses in your game but you're 19 teams will pay you.  When you're 23 and have the same weaknesses in your game,  teams are less likely to pay you.  Justin's lateral quickness isn't going to significantly improve in his time at Marquette.  So instead of teams still seeing his weakness after 4 years of college, he might as well go now and get paid while he can.

Same issue Hank had (but he was a better ball handler and was taller).  Had Hank hung around in college to improve on that weakness he would've been paid nothing by NBA teams.  Instead, he went when he "wasn't ready" but when he was offered millions of dollars, and he started his career with $6M in the NBA.

[BCHoopster]

The difference with Ellenson was that he was a first round pick and had 3 year guarantee which is awesome.  2nd rounders get no guarantees.  He is young turning
20 in March, so if he would comeback to MU for one more year,  he will mature more as a person and on the court.  How many times have you seen him put his head
down after a bad play and barely runs back?

[Uncle Rico]

The difference with Ellenson was that he was a first round pick and had 3 year guarantee which is awesome.  2nd rounders get no guarantees.  He is young turning
20 in March, so if he would comeback to MU for one more year,  he will mature more as a person and on the court.  How many times have you seen him put his head
down after a bad play and barely runs back?

Why can't he mature on and off the course in the G-League or an NBA bench?

[BCHoopster]

Why can't he mature on and off the course in the G-League or an NBA bench?

Yes he could.

[panda]

Why can't he mature on and off the course in the G-League or an NBA bench?

College basketball players can only improve their game playing for my favorite college team. If they go anywhere else to better themselves, they're dead to me.

[Lennys Tap]

Most players who leave "early" aren't "ready" for the NBA.  They develop.

Not to mention, when you have weaknesses in your game but you're 19 teams will pay you.  When you're 23 and have the same weaknesses in your game,  teams are less likely to pay you.  Justin's lateral quickness isn't going to significantly improve in his time at Marquette.  So instead of teams still seeing his weakness after 4 years of college, he might as well go now and get paid while he can.

Same issue Hank had (but he was a better ball handler and was taller).  Had Hank hung around in college to improve on that weakness he would've been paid nothing by NBA teams.  Instead, he went when he "wasn't ready" but when he was offered millions of dollars, and he started his career with $6M in the NBA.

I generally agree, but Ellenson and Lewis's situations are a little different. Hank arrived at MU an almost sure fire one and done, solidly on the NBA's radar since HS. He was projected mid first round or higher throughout his freshman year. So, very little (if any) upside to staying. If I'm Justin, I'm leaning towards going - If I'm guaranteed the 1st round (or even if it looks likely) I go. If not, maybe I bet on myself to improve as much from year 2 to 3 as I did from year 1 to 2.

[MUONTOP]

It's an antiquated belief that you can only improve your game at the college level. Selfishly I want talented players to stay, but in this day and age, there are many more paths to the NBA which don't include college.

Frankly competing on a professional stage will more than likely turn into a better option overall than college in the future.

Maybe I'm old school, but I don't buy the argument "players can develop just as much overseas, on an NBA bench or in the G-league" generalization. Much of making it in professional sports is about the opportunity to shine and situational. Sure, there's some very talented players that can step into those other platforms and use them as a springboard, but for a player like Justin Lewis who has the opportunity to return and be the featured option on a potential tournament team who could potentially go for a deep run next year, I just don't see the grass being any greener with those other options.

Sure, if he's a projected first round pick or early second this year I can't blame him for making the jump, but playing time is playing time and he'll learn a hell of a lot more leading the golden eagles than he would riding the pine at the end of the bench somewhere.

[MU82]

The difference with Ellenson was that he was a first round pick and had 3 year guarantee which is awesome.  2nd rounders get no guarantees.  He is young turning
20 in March, so if he would comeback to MU for one more year,  he will mature more as a person and on the court.  How many times have you seen him put his head
down after a bad play and barely runs back?

On a few occasions this season, including as recently as the Georgetown game, Morsell has hung his head and had bad body language after a bad play. He is a 23-year-old 5th-year player.

Frankly, I haven't seen Lewis do that very often. Certainly no more than most players.

Maybe I'm old school, but I don't buy the argument "players can develop just as much overseas, on an NBA bench or in the G-league" generalization. Much of making it in professional sports is about the opportunity to shine and situational. Sure, there's some very talented players that can step into those other platforms and use them as a springboard, but for a player like Justin Lewis who has the opportunity to return and be the featured option on a potential tournament team who could potentially go for a deep run next year, I just don't see the grass being any greener with those other options.

Sure, if he's a projected first round pick or early second this year I can't blame him for making the jump, but playing time is playing time and he'll learn a hell of a lot more leading the golden eagles than he would riding the pine at the end of the bench somewhere.

Yes, you're "old school." Players can and do develop as much or more while they make money. In college, players have to go to class, go to study hall, have limits on practice time, etc.

And even if I agreed with you and others here that Lewis would be "better off" staying, what Scoopers think about this is meaningless to Justin Lewis.

Vander Blue was told repeatedly that he would be, at best, a second-round pick, and probably not even that. But he left Marquette anyway because he simply didn't want to play college ball any longer and he felt he was ready to try to find his way as a pro.

Not a single one of us here knows what Lewis thinks about the college experience, his Marquette experience, his desire to go pro, etc. We also don't know who his main influencers are, who has his ear.

Maybe he loves it so much that there's a chance he comes back. But he's also seeing mock drafts now that project him as a late-first or second-round draft pick. And maybe he's got family and friends he trusts urging him to go pro.

For the umpteenth time, this decision rarely has anything to do with an athlete being "ready" for the NBA.

[panda]

Maybe I'm old school, but I don't buy the argument "players can develop just as much overseas, on an NBA bench or in the G-league" generalization. Much of making it in professional sports is about the opportunity to shine and situational. Sure, there's some very talented players that can step into those other platforms and use them as a springboard, but for a player like Justin Lewis who has the opportunity to return and be the featured option on a potential tournament team who could potentially go for a deep run next year, I just don't see the grass being any greener with those other options.

Sure, if he's a projected first round pick or early second this year I can't blame him for making the jump, but playing time is playing time and he'll learn a hell of a lot more leading the golden eagles than he would riding the pine at the end of the bench somewhere.

I'd accept your argument if you said - I love Justin and I love Marquette basketball so selfishly I want him to stay. But saying he'll learn more playing college basketball just isn't an accurate statement any longer. Playing/practicing against a higher level of competition makes people better.

[MUONTOP]

I'd accept your argument if you said - I love Justin and I love Marquette basketball so selfishly I want him to stay. But saying he'll learn more playing college basketball just isn't an accurate statement any longer. Playing/practicing against a higher level of competition makes people better.

By your logic, the NBA draft should be dominated by G-League and international players, which it is not. Evidently, NBA scouts still believe college is fertile ground for talent development. Of course, that could change and perhaps we are trending that way but until that dynamic shifts, your argument that there is more talent in the G-league or overseas is simply not supported by the facts.   

[brewcity77]

By your logic, the NBA draft should be dominated by G-League and international players, which it is not. Evidently, NBA scouts still believe college is fertile ground for talent development. Of course, that could change and perhaps we are trending that way but until that dynamic shifts, your argument that there is more talent in the G-league or overseas is simply not supported by the facts.

This is simply inaccurate. The NBA Draft has mostly college players not because of college development but because the majority of the best players grow up here and until very recently, college has been pretty much the only avenue for American players that are ineligible for the draft until the calendar year in which they turn 19, which generally is a year removed from the first year after they graduate high school.

Last year was the first year for G League Ignite players to be draft eligible and 60% (3/5) of them were drafted. Sam Vecenie's latest mock draft has 66% (4/6) of the 2022 draft eligible players being drafted, so by percentage, the G-League IS dominating.

College is a fertile ground because that's just the way it's always been done here, not because of any training superiority. And the vast majority of collegiate players drafted are underclassmen. Over the past three years, 148 college players have been drafted. 92 of them (62.2%) have been freshmen or sophomores, and only 26 completed their eligibility (17.6%). If college was such a great place to develop, why do the vast majority of players determined to be NBA worthy leave before their college training is complete?

The answer is because the best place to become a pro is in the pros. The players know it, the teams know it, and everyone here knows it.

[MU82]

By your logic, the NBA draft should be dominated by G-League and international players, which it is not. Evidently, NBA scouts still believe college is fertile ground for talent development. Of course, that could change and perhaps we are trending that way but until that dynamic shifts, your argument that there is more talent in the G-league or overseas is simply not supported by the facts.

Most G-League players are not eligible for the draft. Many have already been drafted and have been assigned to the G-League by their NBA teams. The best international players get drafted; the vast majority of American players who choose to play internationally have done so because they didn't get picked when they were eligible for the draft.

So no, the NBA draft shouldn't be dominated by G-League and international players.

You know who it's dominated by? 1-and-dones who had to play in college because the NBA and NBAPA made high-schoolers ineligible to be drafted. Most of these kids have little to no interest in school, and I don't blame them.