spring recruiting wish list

[panda]

By your logic, the NBA draft should be dominated by G-League and international players, which it is not. Evidently, NBA scouts still believe college is fertile ground for talent development. Of course, that could change and perhaps we are trending that way but until that dynamic shifts, your argument that there is more talent in the G-league or overseas is simply not supported by the facts.

No need to repeat what Brew and 82 already stated. Plenty of opportunity for quality development and growth outside of the CBB.

[Uncle Rico]

No need to repeat what Brew and 82 already stated. Plenty of opportunity for quality development and growth outside of the CBB.

I'm not sure there are many college programs that "develop nba players".  Either you're an NBA player or not.  There may be better systems to play in but there aren't many coaches I look at and say, "that guy made player X an NBA player"

[MUONTOP]

No need to repeat what Brew and 82 already stated. Plenty of opportunity for quality development and growth outside of the CBB.

I don't want to hijack this thread any further, it's impossible to prove out either side of the argument but citing the 11 players from G-League Ignite or 1 and dones who have already shown a certain level of talent to achieve that status proves nothing about player development. Those players are already nba level talent. I could probably cite Kentucky's or Duke's drafting record with similar stats or any other blue chip program but somehow that would "antiquated".

I don't deny there are other avenues to get to the league, but they are very limited and (to bring it back to the topic at hand) I very much doubt Justin Lewis or players like him reaching college age below the national radar would be any better off taking those routes and more likely they'd fizzle out.  On the other hand, there are many examples of under the radar prospects leveraging the opportunity to shine at the NCAA Tournament into a million dollar payday. That hasn't happened yet in the other avenues you've referenced. It's just too early and unproven to generalize and declare those avenues as the better option.

[martyconlonontherun]

MUScoop - Spring of 2006: Dominic just isn't ready. He needs to come back, develop and add to his resume. If he comes back and leads us to a tourney run he could become a lottery pick.

Worst case if James leaves after his freshman year, he is making six figures somewhere. He can always come back to MU (or some place cheaper if MU) for his degree five years down the line if he flames out.

Im a staunch proponent of leaving as soon as you can. Talent is far inferior to NBA, GLeague, Europe. You have to play school, Coaches are usually hired for ability to recruit versus coach, the style of play is different than what ultimately gets them paid, etc.  It just isnt fun for college basketball fans to see a talent drain, but I bet you ask these borderline guys where they developed more I'm willing to bet they say playing professional men in the Euro league or grinding with former college all stars in the G-League.

[MU82]

On the other hand, there are many examples of under the radar prospects leveraging the opportunity to shine at the NCAA Tournament into a million dollar payday.

Justin Lewis isn't under the radar ... but I get what you're saying.

MUScoop - Spring of 2006: Dominic just isn't ready. He needs to come back, develop and add to his resume. If he comes back and leads us to a tourney run he could become a lottery pick.

Worst case if James leaves after his freshman year, he is making six figures somewhere. He can always come back to MU (or some place cheaper if MU) for his degree five years down the line if he flames out.

Im a staunch proponent of leaving as soon as you can. Talent is far inferior to NBA, GLeague, Europe. You have to play school, Coaches are usually hired for ability to recruit versus coach, the style of play is different than what ultimately gets them paid, etc.  It just isnt fun for college basketball fans to see a talent drain, but I bet you ask these borderline guys where they developed more I'm willing to bet they say playing professional men in the Euro league or grinding with former college all stars in the G-League.

I'm actually a staunch proponent of the athlete following his heart and also listening to knowledgeable advisers.

If Lewis stays because Marquette is where he wants to be for another year, good on him, it was the "right" decision for him even if the unlikely happens and he ends up regressing. If Lewis leaves because he no longer wants to be at Marquette and/or because he wants to be a pro, good on him, it was the "right" decision for him even if he never plays a game in the NBA. As long as he doesn't torpedo our season as he's on his way out the door, I'll root for him forever.

I'm one who doesn't think Vander made the "wrong" decision. He didn't want to play another year of basketball at Marquette, and he wanted to try to be a pro. He wanted to roll the dice, so he rolled the dice. It hasn't worked out, but that's OK. He gave it max effort.

It's these athletes' careers, their passions, their lives ... and it cracks me up to see a bunch of anonymous non-athletes on the interwebs telling athletes what they should be thinking.

[GoldenEagles03]

Hit up the WAC and try to get Fardaws Aimaq to replace Kur & Teddy Allen if Justin goes pro.

I actually don't think Justin is set on staying or leaving yet to this point.

In that feature on him from last week he mentioned a few times how he wants to be remembered around here like Wade, Butler, Matthews, etc.

And in his own words he said "I have a lot yet to do here."

It'll be an interesting few months.  Here's to hoping he carries MU to the Final Four and makes a lot of money because of it! 😅

[tower912]

I found a stat a couple of years ago that half of NBA players had spent time in the G league.

[MU82]

I actually don't think Justin is set on staying or leaving yet to this point.

In that feature on him from last week he mentioned a few times how he wants to be remembered around here like Wade, Butler, Matthews, etc.

And in his own words he said "I have a lot yet to do here."

It'll be an interesting few months.  Here's to hoping he carries MU to the Final Four and makes a lot of money because of it! 😅

I missed that feature. That's good to hear. Selfishly, I'd love to see Justin stick around for another year.

If he hears through the grapevine that an NBA GM or 3 like him in the first round (or even the second), staying would be a difficult decision.

[panda]

I don't want to hijack this thread any further, it's impossible to prove out either side of the argument but citing the 11 players from G-League Ignite or 1 and dones who have already shown a certain level of talent to achieve that status proves nothing about player development. Those players are already nba level talent. I could probably cite Kentucky's or Duke's drafting record with similar stats or any other blue chip program but somehow that would "antiquated".

I don't deny there are other avenues to get to the league, but they are very limited and (to bring it back to the topic at hand) I very much doubt Justin Lewis or players like him reaching college age below the national radar would be any better off taking those routes and more likely they'd fizzle out.  On the other hand, there are many examples of under the radar prospects leveraging the opportunity to shine at the NCAA Tournament into a million dollar payday. That hasn't happened yet in the other avenues you've referenced. It's just too early and unproven to generalize and declare those avenues as the better option.

The g league has become a legitimate outlet for burgeoning nba talent. Players don't need to stay in college to improve any longer and may be disincentivized to do so. That wasn't true 10 years ago.

[WhiteTrash]

I'll put a PG on my wish list.

[Don_Kojis]

I believe some players get extra help and development in college because coaches are working and teaching.  It seems in pros, they are worried about winning and don't seem to get that one on one help.

[BrewCity83]

I think in college the coaches try to coach everyone on the team as much as they can.  Beyond college, it's more on the player to seek out the help they feel they need and put in the work to improve.  But the resources are unlimited, and the time available to work on basketball is unlimited.

[Jockey]

By your logic, the NBA draft should be dominated by G-League and international players, which it is not. Evidently, NBA scouts still believe college is fertile ground for talent development. Of course, that could change and perhaps we are trending that way but until that dynamic shifts, your argument that there is more talent in the G-league or overseas is simply not supported by the facts.

Your post is simply wrong.
To start the 2020-21 season, 45% of players on opening-night NBA rosters had NBA G League experience.  21.8% of NBA players were classed as international players.

While there were a few overlaps, about 65% of players were from the G League or overseas, including several all-stars and the League's last 3 Year's MVPs.

Of course Brew is the guy that beat me to this.   I need to read all of the subsequent posts before I respond.

[muwarrior69]

Why can't he mature on and off the course in the G-League or an NBA bench?

By mature you mean improving his basketball skills I would agree. If he is sitting on an NBA bench earning big bucks why stay in college; but the G-League, I'm not so sure. The minimum salary is about 35k in the G-League and sure all your time is devoted to improving your game. However if you remain in school and your team is in the Big Dance you have an opportunity to shine and have name recognition on the National stage which I don't think the G-League would provide.

Also, it may be possible for some player NILs to earn more than the G-League.

[MU82]

By mature you mean improving his basketball skills I would agree. If he is sitting on an NBA bench earning big bucks why stay in college; but the G-League, I'm not so sure. The minimum salary is about 35k in the G-League and sure all your time is devoted to improving your game. However if you remain in school and your team is in the Big Dance you have an opportunity to shine and have name recognition on the National stage which I don't think the G-League would provide.

Also, it may be possible for some player NILs to earn more than the G-League.

At this stage of an athlete's journey, it's mostly about opportunity, not money.

If an NBA team has a run of injuries or makes trades or has Covid issues or whatever, it reaches into the G League and immediately brings up a player. It's how Markus got his look, how Sam got his look, how Jamil got his look. Even Vander's cup of coffee came about because he was ready to go in the G League.

If it's Feb. 8 and you're in college, you ain't getting called up to the NBA.

There are pluses and minuses for the G League and for college hoops. You keep making arguments that you think supports your case, but you never acknowledge that maybe the athlete simply no longer wants to be in college for a variety of reasons. If he doesn't, then it's "better" that he's playing somewhere else. Not sure why that's such a difficult concept for some.

For decades, the College Sports Industrial Complex overwhelmingly benefited coaches, athletic departments and universities -- and it still does.

Glad to see the athletes finally getting a few more legitimate choices, including the right to transfer without having to sit out an entire season, and the right to pursue professional opportunities through an outlet like the G League.

[WhiteTrash]

For decades, the College Sports Industrial Complex overwhelmingly benefited coaches, athletic departments and universities -- and it still does.

An by 'College Sports Industrial Complex' you mean the 10% of schools that are high major programs and the 5% of all college athletes, that play football and men's basketball? 

[wadesworld]

I'll put a PG on my wish list.

Sean Jones says hello.

[WhiteTrash]

Sean Jones says hello.

I hope he's the answer. I like Kolek but he's struggling lately. He's not creating like he was earlier this season. He's looking like a strong backup in the Big East.

It appears like Shaka feels the same so kudos to him for seeing a need and filling it. Shaka is doing a grade A job.

[MU82]

The outstanding high school coach I worked for puts an emphasis on identifying and developing PGs. One of his sayings: "The most important position is point guard, and the second most important position is another point guard."

Marquette needs upgrades and/or depth at every position, including PG.

[Golden Avalanche]

I hope he's the answer. I like Kolek but he's struggling lately. He's not creating like he was earlier this season. He's looking like a strong backup in the Big East.

He had 11 assists in a game that took place less than a week ago.

[1318WWells]

By mature you mean improving his basketball skills I would agree. If he is sitting on an NBA bench earning big bucks why stay in college; but the G-League, I'm not so sure. The minimum salary is about 35k in the G-League and sure all your time is devoted to improving your game. However if you remain in school and your team is in the Big Dance you have an opportunity to shine and have name recognition on the National stage which I don't think the G-League would provide.

Also, it may be possible for some player NILs to earn more than the G-League.

This is basically where I'm at too. Does anyone really believe that Justin stunted his NBA potential (both playing and earning) by returning to Marquette this year instead of going the G League route?

If you're  a first round lock you go and take the guaranteed money. 
If you're coming out of high school and invited to be on the G League Elite, you go and chances are high that you're a first rounder the next year.
Beyond that you're really rolling the dice on yourself and eliminating some paths to guaranteed money.

I get the angle if you don't want to be in school, don't stay in school.

I get the risk of injury angle too, but you could get injured in the Gleague as well and you still wouldn't have any guaranteed money.

I think NIL has started to even the playing field between college and Gleague/Europe. Plenty of Kids in college are earning more than the Gleague minimum.

Justin was able to improve his game this year and showcase those improvements. His draft stock has risen as a result.

Doesn't mean it will be the same for the next player. There are many different paths.

[panda]

This is basically where I'm at too. Does anyone really believe that Justin stunted his NBA potential (both playing and earning) by returning to Marquette this year instead of going the G League route?

If you're  a first round lock you go and take the guaranteed money. 
If you're coming out of high school and invited to be on the G League Elite, you go and chances are high that you're a first rounder the next year.
Beyond that you're really rolling the dice on yourself and eliminating some paths to guaranteed money.

I get the angle if you don't want to be in school, don't stay in school.

I get the risk of injury angle too, but you could get injured in the Gleague as well and you still wouldn't have any guaranteed money.

I think NIL has started to even the playing field between college and Gleague/Europe. Plenty of Kids in college are earning more than the Gleague minimum.

Justin was able to improve his game this year and showcase those improvements. His draft stock has risen as a result.

Doesn't mean it will be the same for the next player. There are many different paths.

Some posters are arguing the opposite that Justin would be doing himself a disservice going pro while not being drafted in the first round. Players growth isn't stunted by going to the G League.

[WhiteTrash]

He had 11 assists in a game that took place less than a week ago.

I think you meant to write "He had 11 assists in a game Against Georgetown that took place less than a week ago."

No need to thank me, I got your back on this one.

[MU82]

An by 'College Sports Industrial Complex' you mean the 10% of schools that are high major programs and the 5% of all college athletes, that play football and men's basketball?

Well, even football and basketball coaches at places like Northern Illinois and Western Carolina have all the power and money in their neck of the woods, and their athletes get even fewer scraps. At least now those athletes can transfer without facing unfair consequences.

Yes, primarily football and men's basketball ... but depending on the school and part of the country, also baseball, hockey, women's basketball, lacrosse, volleyball, wrestling, etc.

I mean, the hockey coach at St. Cloud State makes $225K base and gets much more than that in perks. But until a year ago, St. Cloud State players weren't much more than indentured servants whose freedom of movement was limited by idiotic transfer rules that benefited power brokers, not athletes.

The Mississippi State baseball coach makes $1.25M. The Iowa wrestling coach has a $375K base salary. We could go on all day.

The College Sports Industrial Complex takes care of the overlords.

[Golden Avalanche]

I think you meant to write "He had 11 assists in a game Against Georgetown that took place less than a week ago."

No need to thank me, I got your back on this one.

Ok. Sure.

As an aside, can you please list the Big East guards who have had double digit assists in a conference game this season?