Unexpected Wr-Hinkle

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Bummer of a loss. But thankfully it shouldn’t hurt too much. Could go 2-3 rest of way and still get in without Dayton. Hope to do much better than than that.

[NotAnAlum]

Biggest concerns I saw were:
  The ease with which Butler beat the press by throwing over the top.  The inbound often advanced it to at least half court and then of course there were the home run layups.  Butler is not a particularly athletic team so if they can do this most any other team should be able to as well.  Whoever is defending the deep pass has to be able to contest this.  Otherwise other teams will shred this defense and without it MU's defensive pressure even in the half court seems to suffer.
  Lack of any penetration and interior passing.  MU is not a good enough shooting team to rely on outside shooting.  This game looked a lot like the 1st half of ULCA.  I realize Butler is good at defending PandR but it seemed we abandoned it completely.  The assist numbers were terrible.  Shaka need to come up with some other variations they can run to get easy looks inside.
  Once again the rebounding was a problem.

It looked like MU played this game figuring they were through the worst of their schedule and now they can relax a little.  If its just an effort thing that can be fixed.  But if this game revealed some scheme problems we better fix those.

[Scoop Snoop]

Biggest concerns I saw were:
  The ease with which Butler beat the press by throwing over the top.  The inbound often advanced it to at least half court and then of course there were the home run layups.  Butler is not a particularly athletic team so if they can do this most any other team should be able to as well.  Whoever is defending the deep pass has to be able to contest this.  Otherwise other teams will shred this defense and without it MU's defensive pressure even in the half court seems to suffer.
  Lack of any penetration and interior passing.  MU is not a good enough shooting team to rely on outside shooting.  This game looked a lot like the 1st half of ULCA.  I realize Butler is good at defending PandR but it seemed we abandoned it completely.  The assist numbers were terrible.  Shaka need to come up with some other variations they can run to get easy looks inside.
  Once again the rebounding was a problem.

It looked like MU played this game figuring they were through the worst of their schedule and now they can relax a little.  If its just an effort thing that can be fixed.  But if this game revealed some scheme problems we better fix those.

Agree. It is nice to read your calm, rational and perceptive comments after reading the post game rants. Many of us predicted a 5-1 finish but I doubt that, had we been asked to identify the upset winner, many would have chosen Butler. I wrote that either DePaul or Creighton would be the one. MUwarrior69 wrote that he thought that this might be a trap game and, in classic Scoop style, was quickly ridiculed. He identified the killer. The butler did it.

The threads about finishing the season with a string of losses because of one mind -boggling loss are mind-boggling in their own right. Since this is an opinion board they have every right to spout off, but it would be nice if they explained how Wojo's season ending collapses are linked to their fears of this season collapsing. Scoop does not require rationality or accountability. Those threads are my exhibit A. I wonder if the Villanova board had a nuclear melt down after Creighton and Baylor blew them out.

The thread about other coaches having us figured out are, I think, perfectly legit but what is missing is that ALL the other BE coaches have ALL the other BE opponents figured out. Nothing new here.

We may lose one or even two more games but I think it will be only one. That would be hardly enough to make me even slightly disappointed in what this team and Shaka have given us this year.     

[NotAnAlum]

Agree. It is nice to read your calm, rational and perceptive comments after reading the post game rants. 

Thanks for the encouragement.  To me it does no good to say "the sky is falling" unless you post some reason that it could be falling.  While you say everyone in the BE has everyone else figured out, this is the first time I've seen our press broken with such ease and in a manor that immediately puts us at a disadvantage.  The key to this team is their defense and that first 10 sec or so of disruption really sets the tone.  Lets hope it was something WE didn't execute well and not simply a weakness that can easily be exploited.

[BM1090]

Bummer of a loss. But thankfully it shouldn’t hurt too much. Could go 2-3 rest of way and still get in without Dayton. Hope to do much better than than that.

Good chance we’d be in Dayton with a 2-3 finish. Don’t expect that to be an issue though.

[Scoop Snoop]

Thanks for the encouragement.  To me it does no good to say "the sky is falling" unless you post some reason that it could be falling.  While you say everyone in the BE has everyone else figured out, this is the first time I've seen our press broken with such ease and in a manor that immediately puts us at a disadvantage.  The key to this team is their defense and that first 10 sec or so of disruption really sets the tone.  Lets hope it was something WE didn't execute well and not simply a weakness that can easily be exploited.

True, but we have a coach whose expertise is defense. I'm confident that he will figure it out. As upset as many Marquette fans are about the game, I am also confident our players are far more upset with themselves and really embarrassed. They will do whatever it takes to get the ship righted. Under our previous coach, the team often did not respond. That's the difference between a real leader and a cheerleader screaming "play harder!".

[bradforster]

There is a silver lining to this game.  We get them back on our home court in two weeks.  There's no way the guys will come out as spiritless at Fiserv as they did yesterday on the road.  Adjustments will be made.  I'm confident we will exact a measure of revenge on February 26th!

[MU82]

Biggest concerns I saw were:
  The ease with which Butler beat the press by throwing over the top.  The inbound often advanced it to at least half court and then of course there were the home run layups.  Butler is not a particularly athletic team so if they can do this most any other team should be able to as well.  Whoever is defending the deep pass has to be able to contest this.  Otherwise other teams will shred this defense and without it MU's defensive pressure even in the half court seems to suffer.
  Lack of any penetration and interior passing.  MU is not a good enough shooting team to rely on outside shooting.  This game looked a lot like the 1st half of ULCA.  I realize Butler is good at defending PandR but it seemed we abandoned it completely.  The assist numbers were terrible.  Shaka need to come up with some other variations they can run to get easy looks inside.
  Once again the rebounding was a problem.

It looked like MU played this game figuring they were through the worst of their schedule and now they can relax a little.  If its just an effort thing that can be fixed.  But if this game revealed some scheme problems we better fix those.

Excellent post, and I agree with most. Our pressure is looking less challenging for most opponents lately, and Butler especially did a great job with it.

I'm not quite sure about the "rest on our laurels" part of it. I didn't think our guys dogged it or were lackadaisical. Butler came out and did something they don't usually do -- they rained 3s, including a couple with guys right in their face -- and we couldn't hit the side of the barn that is Hinkle. And when that happens, and the crowd is going wild for the home team, the road team that isn't raining 3s always looks like it has less energy. And of course, we rebounded with our usual aptitude. I'm not saying we weren't a beat behind; I'm just saying that it's a little simplistic to blame lack of effort.

MUwarrior69 wrote that he thought that this might be a trap game and, in classic Scoop style, was quickly ridiculed. He identified the killer. The butler did it.

A "trap" game, as just about anybody defines it, is a game against a lesser opponent that comes after and before games against ranked opponents or rivals. All I said is that I doubted our guys were going into yesterday's game thinking, "This one will be easy, it's that Georgetown game we gotta be ready for." If anything, Georgetown, coming between 2 road games (including one at Creighton, always a tough place), fits the definition of "trap game" much better.

During our 8-1 stretch, we had a few "trap" games, and we never fell into the trap. So only a Negative Nellie would think that would happen at Butler. Combine all that with the poster's generally negative attitude toward Shaka and this year's team, and it was pretty easy to dismiss it.

[Norm]

I picked a 3-3 finish down the stretch in the other thread with losses to Butler, Creighton and DePaul. Watching the end of the DePaul - Providence game last night, DePaul is going to give us fits, especially if their big men are on their game. We just don't match up well with Creighton either. I have not watch St. John's this year, but the have played us tough in the past. Its the Big East, so there's no easy game. Our D has been really bad the last two games. We have also gone long stretches with Morsell and Kolek not providing any offense either. We just need to get our bearings back or the play of the last two games could spill over down the stretch.

[79Warrior]

I picked a 3-3 finish down the stretch in the other thread with losses to Butler, Creighton and DePaul. Watching the end of the DePaul - Providence game last night, DePaul is going to give us fits, especially if their big men are on their game. We just don't match up well with Creighton either. I have not watch St. John's this year, but the have played us tough in the past. Its the Big East, so there's no easy game. Our D has been really bad the last two games. We have also gone long stretches with Morsell and Kolek not providing any offense either. We just need to get our bearings back or the play of the last two games could spill over down the stretch.

It will be very important for Marquette to defend the home court. If we do that we will be fine.

[bradforster]

This is pretty simple - hold serve at home in three games in which you should be decided favorites - and steal one on the road against either Creighton or DePaul.  Anything less than 3 and 2 is a major disappointment, but the team should be good enough to post a 4 and 1 record over these next three weeks.

[MU82]

I picked a 3-3 finish down the stretch in the other thread with losses to Butler, Creighton and DePaul. Watching the end of the DePaul - Providence game last night, DePaul is going to give us fits, especially if their big men are on their game. We just don't match up well with Creighton either. I have not watch St. John's this year, but the have played us tough in the past. Its the Big East, so there's no easy game. Our D has been really bad the last two games. We have also gone long stretches with Morsell and Kolek not providing any offense either. We just need to get our bearings back or the play of the last two games could spill over down the stretch.

Agree some, especially that DePaul could be a very tough game. I have to say I'm impressed that you picked us to lose at Butler.

OTOH, we matched up fine with Creighton in December, just blew it at the end. If we play well, they'll have as much trouble matching up with us as we will with them.

And we're gonna see an "easy game" Wednesday. Will be surprised if we don't crush them.

[Scoop Snoop]

This is pretty simple - hold serve at home in three games in which you should be decided favorites - and steal one on the road against either Creighton or DePaul.  Anything less than 3 and 2 is a major disappointment, but the team should be good enough to post a 4 and 1 record over these next three weeks.

I really hope your 4-1 (if not 5-0 of course) scenario works out. DePaul vs. Xavier and last night vs. Providence as well as St. Johns today showed what they are capable of doing. The easy stretch we envisioned is not going to be a cake walk.  We can do it, but I think it will not easy after all. What really annoys me are the scoopers who are clearly poised to blame Shaka if we finish poorly. The one who buttressed his argument by referring to the Texas forum's trashing of Shaka should be embarrassed but I doubt he is capable of it. 

[willie warrior]

This is pretty simple - hold serve at home in three games in which you should be decided favorites - and steal one on the road against either Creighton or DePaul.  Anything less than 3 and 2 is a major disappointment, but the team should be good enough to post a 4 and 1 record over these next three weeks.

Sorry. Can't view a win at DePaul as a steal. Ot should be a given.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Good chance we’d be in Dayton with a 2-3 finish. Don’t expect that to be an issue though.

I don't think so.  We have a collection of wins no team around the bubble can even sniff.  But 2-3 isn't going to happen (I hope).

[GoldenEagles03]

You said this loss drops them to a 7 or 8 seed. That's absolutely not accurate.

Officially a 7 on Lunardis bracket and many others.

So I actually was spot on. The Butler loss isn't the end of the world, but its damaging.

Likely the difference between playing a P6 school rather than a mid major.  Oh well. Onto the next.

[BM1090]

Officially a 7 on Lunardis bracket and many others.

So I actually was spot on. The Butler loss isn't the end of the world, but its damaging.

Likely the difference between playing a P6 school rather than a mid major.  Oh well. Onto the next.

1. Lunardi isn't good at his job.

2. MU is the second 6 seed on the bracketmatrix, average of 5.88. Closer to a 5 seed than a 7.

We could get a 7 or 8. We could also still get a 4 or 5. The loss didn't drop MU to a 7.

[GoldenEagles03]

1. Lunardi isn't good at his job.

2. MU is the second 6 seed on the bracketmatrix, average of 5.88. Closer to a 5 seed than a 7.

We could get a 7 or 8. We could also still get a 4 or 5. The loss didn't drop MU to a 7.

Bracket Matrix is full of people who are bad at their job.

Regardless. They were the 2nd 5 seed before the loss to Butler on the Matrix.

[BM1090]

Bracket Matrix is full of people who are bad at their job.

Regardless. They were the 2nd 5 seed before the loss to Butler on the Matrix.

Yes, there are plenty of bad projectors on bracketmatrix but the average is usually better than Lunardi. Plenty of good bracketologists on there as well.

The loss sucked. It definitely hurt our resume and we deservedly dropped, but I doubt we dropped as far as you think we did, and there's plenty of time to bounce back.

The bigger question is was that loss a blip or does the downward trend continue?

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Yes, there are plenty of bad projectors on bracketmatrix but the average is usually better than Lunardi. Plenty of good bracketologists on there as well.

The loss sucked. It definitely hurt our resume and we deservedly dropped, but I doubt we dropped as far as you think we did, and there's plenty of time to bounce back.

The bigger question is was that loss a blip or does the downward trend continue?

That's the biggest question.  Finish 4-1 with a W or two in the BET and its going to be tough to keep this team out of the top 20 seeds.  Limp to the finish, and we could easily find ourselves in the 8-10 range just simply based on the # of losses, even tho our resume as a whole will still be better than many teams above us. 

[MUfan12]

Officially a 7 on Lunardis bracket and many others.

So I actually was spot on. The Butler loss isn't the end of the world, but its damaging.

Likely the difference between playing a P6 school rather than a mid major.  Oh well. Onto the next.

Looking forward to you citing the BPI impact next.

[GoldenEagles03]

Yes, there are plenty of bad projectors on bracketmatrix but the average is usually better than Lunardi. Plenty of good bracketologists on there as well.

The loss sucked. It definitely hurt our resume and we deservedly dropped, but I doubt we dropped as far as you think we did, and there's plenty of time to bounce back.

The bigger question is was that loss a blip or does the downward trend continue?

I think the issue is that there just aren't many good wins left.

Creighton is all.  The other losses would be considered pretty bad losses.

Georgetown tomorrow is Q4, St. John's and Butler at home are both Q3.

Any of those 3 are losses and it's a big hit. I'm not saying the loss this weekend to Butler is a nail in a coffin, but it just hurt in terms of what is left.

Creighton and maybe at DePaul are the last shot to improve the resume.

5 seed ceiling
10 seed floor

[wadesworld]

I think the issue is that there just aren't many good wins left.

Creighton is all.  The other losses would be considered pretty bad losses.

Georgetown tomorrow is Q4, St. John's and Butler at home are both Q3.

Any of those 3 are losses and it's a big hit. I'm not saying the loss this weekend to Butler is a nail in a coffin, but it just hurt in terms of what is left.

Creighton and maybe at DePaul are the last shot to improve the resume.

5 seed ceiling
10 seed floor

Marquette doesn't need many more good wins.  They have plenty.  Their issue is they have a lot of losses.  So now they have to rack up the total wins.

[brewcity77]

Officially a 7 on Lunardis bracket and many others.

So I actually was spot on. The Butler loss isn't the end of the world, but its damaging.

Likely the difference between playing a P6 school rather than a mid major.  Oh well. Onto the next.

I was on the Delphi Bracketology podcast last night with Brian Tonsoni from Delphi. They have the highest average Paymon score of anyone that's been on Bracketmatrix for all five years. Brian said his most difficult decision with Marquette as of last night was whether or not they were a 5-seed or if they should move up to the 4 ahead of Michigan State.

Personally, I have Marquette as a 6 right now, but Delphi, Dave Ommen at Bracketville, Weber Bracketology, and One Man Committee all are top-10 bracketologists on average and have Marquette as a 5, so maybe they know better than I do.

[BM1090]

I don't think so.  We have a collection of wins no team around the bubble can even sniff.  But 2-3 isn't going to happen (I hope).

After digging deeper into the resumes today, I think you're correct that we're still in and avoiding Dayton (barely) if we have a 2-3 finish, assuming the wins are Butler and Georgetown at home. Or winning @ Creighton and one other one.

The STB and Butler losses are now looking like they will end up in Q2. KSU win is looking like it'll stay in Q1. With all three of those improving, 2-3 would leave us with only 1 blemish on our resume and plenty of good wins to offset it. Biggest concern would our overall record at 18-13, but I think that'd be enough this season.