Vaccine Misinformation

[🏀]

He's 100% correct. Mandated vaccination should never have been a thing. The short answer is there is too much money at stake for big pharma, etc. to have been up front and honest with the public. Never let a good crisis go to waste, aina?

4ever found a new daddy in Ron D.

Florida man nailed it, the rest of the world got it wrong. Just look at Florida's data!

[The Sultan]

He's 100% correct. Mandated vaccination should never have been a thing. The short answer is there is too much money at stake for big pharma, etc. to have been up front and honest with the public. Never let a good crisis go to waste, aina?

No he is 100% wrong. We can argue the benefits of mandated vaccination all you want (IMO there is no need for it any longer), but he is arguing that the vaccination itself is a problem.  He literally claimed "the benefit is miniscule."  Really?

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-covid-19-deaths-by-vaccination-status?country=~50%2B

The fact that a Marquette-trained, "medical professional" laps this up and says "yeah, he's right about this," shows you how far gone some people are.  Just an embarrassment. 

[4everwarriors]

Oh, the irony, hey?

[MUBurrow]

600,000 dead on his watch. Handed 2 vaccines, hey?


#Buffoon

He's 100% correct. Mandated vaccination should never have been a thing. The short answer is there is too much money at stake for big pharma, etc. to have been up front and honest with the public. Never let a good crisis go to waste, aina?

Life comes at you pretty fast.

[The Sultan]

Life comes at you pretty fast.

LOL. Exactly.

4ever was all about the vaccines when he could credit Trump for them, but now that his new buddy doesn't like them, he mimics that talking point.

[tower912]

Last data I saw said vaccines had prevented 3.2 million American deaths vs no vaccines.

Honestly, doc drivel, it is impossible to take you seriously anymore.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/13/health/covid-19-vaccines-study/index.html
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/3773239-covid-vaccines-saved-3-2-million-us-lives-researchers-say/
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/985529

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-vaccines-saved-20-million-lives-in-1-year

So, the question becomes, why is he ignoring science and pandering?

[reinko]

He's 100% correct. Mandated vaccination should never have been a thing. The short answer is there is too much money at stake for big pharma, etc. to have been up front and honest with the public. Never let a good crisis go to waste, aina?

Can you name one American who was actually forced to get the vaccine?  Sure, many were mandated by their job, but free market tells me they could just go get another job.

[🏀]

So, the question becomes, why is he ignoring science and pandering?

Fox News' arm is sufficient wedged up his ass controlling him entirely.

SAD!

[cheebs09]

Fox News' arm is sufficient wedged up his ass controlling him entirely.

SAD!

I bet that arm is vaccinated too.

[The Sultan]

From July 2021:

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/564249-desantis-urges-public-to-get-vaccinated-these-shots-are-saving-lives/

"Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) is urging Floridians to get vaccinated against the coronavirus, saying that the shots are "saving lives."

In a press conference on Wednesday, DeSantis told reporters that 95% of the people being admitted to hospitals in the state due to COVID-19 complications haven't been vaccinated at all, implying that "vaccines are saving lives," especially with regard to nursing homes.

"If you look at the people that are being admitted to hospitals .... over 95% of them are either not fully vaccinated or not vaccinated at all," DeSantis said. "These vaccines are saving lives. They are reducing mortality."

[The Sultan]

From December 2020... DeSantis watching a Florida resident getting vaccinated.



Quote from the story:  "Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis welcomed 20,000 doses of the coronavirus vaccine to Tampa General Hospital on Monday morning, calling their arrival a "historic" achievement in the fight against the pandemic." 

[tower912]

Thanks, Doc Drivel, for bringing attention to this.   Love and appreciate the self own.

[The Sultan]

July 2021

https://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/vaccines-are-saving-lives-desantis-stresses-importance-of-shots-as-florida-covid-cases-spike-criticizes-mask-mandates/

"During a visit to St. Petersburg to discuss red tide on Wednesday, Gov. Ron DeSantis took time to answer questions and address Florida's recent spike in coronavirus cases and stress the importance of Floridians getting a COVID-19 vaccine.

"So here's, I think, the most important thing with the data: if you are vaccinated—fully vaccinated—the chance of you getting seriously ill or dying from COVID is effectively zero," DeSantis said. "If you look at the people who are being admitted to hospitals, over 95 percent of them are either not fully vaccinated or not vaccinated at all. These vaccines are saving lives. They are reducing mortality."

The governor said he's been urging people to get vaccinated for months because of what he called the "summer season."

"We have a summer season here, just like last year," DeSantis said. "It started a little later this year. So you're going to have higher prevalence for the rest of July, probably into August. And then it goes back and goes the different waves. If you're vaccinated, those waves are not going to impact you in any significant way and I think that's the important message for people."

[MUBurrow]

"During a visit to St. Petersburg to discuss red tide on Wednesday, Gov. Ron DeSantis took time to answer questions and address Florida's recent spike in coronavirus cases and stress the importance of Floridians getting a COVID-19 vaccine.

"So here's, I think, the most important thing with the data: if you are vaccinated—fully vaccinated—the chance of you getting seriously ill or dying from COVID is effectively zero," DeSantis said. "If you look at the people who are being admitted to hospitals, over 95 percent of them are either not fully vaccinated or not vaccinated at all. These vaccines are saving lives. They are reducing mortality."

The governor said he's been urging people to get vaccinated for months because of what he called the "summer season."

"We have a summer season here, just like last year," DeSantis said. "It started a little later this year. So you're going to have higher prevalence for the rest of July, probably into August. And then it goes back and goes the different waves. If you're vaccinated, those waves are not going to impact you in any significant way and I think that's the important message for people."

FWIW, DeSantis's pivot makes political sense from a nihlistic point of view.  He clearly sees the fact that he wasn't a complete anti-vax ghoul as a liability in the republican primary.  But he can't just say "I changed my mind now that fewer are dying of covid and its no longer politically beneficial to support vaccination." So he's propping up a big pharma straw man to enable him to claim he was tricked into supporting the vaccines.  This is all hilariously obvious and drummed up, but his supporters won't object to his inconsistency, and this is all going to be about pharma, Fauci, etc.

[The Sultan]

FWIW, DeSantis's pivot makes political sense from a nihlistic point of view.  He clearly sees the fact that he wasn't a complete anti-vax ghoul as a liability in the republican primary.  But he can't just say "I changed my mind now that fewer are dying of covid and its no longer politically beneficial to support vaccination." So he's propping up a big pharma straw man to enable him to claim he was tricked into supporting the vaccines.  This is all hilariously obvious and drummed up, but his supporters won't object to his inconsistency, and this is all going to be about pharma, Fauci, etc.

Oh I know.  I just wish the 4evers of the world would admit either 1. how manipulated they are, or 2. that they don't care for intellectual consistency.

[JWags85]

Alright, this isn't sea lion-ing, this is legitimate devils advocate from the only semi-reasonable vaccine/pharma deception standpoint Ive seen recently.

If vaccines were posited as definitively preventing transmission, when they in fact did not and Pfizer admitted as much later on, could it be said that both

A) vaccines saved millions of lives because it prevented severe infection, especially in the case of the elderly.

but also

B) were championed in a misleading fashion compared to other vaccines which indeed prevented contraction and transmission

[reinko]

Alright, this isn't sea lion-ing, this is legitimate devils advocate from the only semi-reasonable vaccine/pharma deception standpoint Ive seen recently.

If vaccines were posited as definitively preventing transmission, when they in fact did not and Pfizer admitted as much later on, could it be said that both

A) vaccines saved millions of lives because it prevented severe infection, especially in the case of the elderly.

but also

B) were championed in a misleading fashion compared to other vaccines which indeed prevented contraction and transmission

You playing devils advocate

:shocked face:

[JWags85]

You playing devils advocate

:shocked face:

Sorry I forgot, we're all supposed to play party lines and agree with each other and/or make fun of dentists.

Please provide evidence of my history of insincerity or anything other than trying to reasonably add to the discussion whilst not being wholly left of center.

[The Sultan]

Alright, this isn't sea lion-ing, this is legitimate devils advocate from the only semi-reasonable vaccine/pharma deception standpoint Ive seen recently.

If vaccines were posited as definitively preventing transmission, when they in fact did not and Pfizer admitted as much later on, could it be said that both

A) vaccines saved millions of lives because it prevented severe infection, especially in the case of the elderly.

but also

B) were championed in a misleading fashion compared to other vaccines which indeed prevented contraction and transmission

(B) wasn't "misleading."  It proved to be inaccurate as more transmissible variants emerged.

[JWags85]

(B) wasn't "misleading."  It proved to be inaccurate as more transmissible variants emerged.

Was it proven to fully prevent transmission of even earlier variants?  I thought Pfizer admitted in EU panels last month that they never tested on the basis of transmission.

Obviously there is a difference between "reduces transmission/reduces likelihood of contracting COVID" and "prevents transmission".

Is it semantics?  Sure.  But I don't think its a point without merit.  And its far from "DURR THE VAX DONT DO ANYTHING.  THEY DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD"

[The Sultan]

Was it proven to fully prevent transmission of even earlier variants?  I thought Pfizer admitted in EU panels last month that they never tested on the basis of transmission.

Obviously there is a difference between "reduces transmission/reduces likelihood of contracting COVID" and "prevents transmission".

Is it semantics?  Sure.  But I don't think its a point without merit.  And its far from "DURR THE VAX DONT DO ANYTHING.  THEY DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD"

I mean in the link above, he calls them "useless."  So I guess that's the standard I'm comparing it to.

[JWags85]

I mean in the link above, he calls them "useless."  So I guess that's the standard I'm comparing it to.

I'm not defending DeSantis or any of the "lock Fauci up" crowd.  Thats brain dead, as is any blind allegiance to any politically motivated messaging.

[forgetful]

Alright, this isn't sea lion-ing, this is legitimate devils advocate from the only semi-reasonable vaccine/pharma deception standpoint Ive seen recently.

If vaccines were posited as definitively preventing transmission, when they in fact did not and Pfizer admitted as much later on, could it be said that both

A) vaccines saved millions of lives because it prevented severe infection, especially in the case of the elderly.

but also

B) were championed in a misleading fashion compared to other vaccines which indeed prevented contraction and transmission

I'm ok with the playing Devil's advocate on this one, it is a reasonable question and one that should be asked, but in this case your hypothetical is misguided and inaccurate and the Devil's advocate position you are taking is based on the unfortunate reality that our media is ridiculously biased, and sucks at reporting accurately (please don't take the below as an attack...it is just providing information).

Your Devil's advocate position is based on the idea that Pfizer lied to the world regarding transmission. But they never made that claim. Pfizer in their own press releases and reports made clear that they never tested on that, instead they emphasized that it provided 95% protection from symptomatic infection.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577

And even went on the media and flat out told everyone that they could not comment on whether people could still be infected and transmit to others.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/3-vaccine-executives-say-after-approval-distribution-will-be-main-n1249928

Even the FDA made all this clear in their announcements on it being approved.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-takes-key-action-fight-against-covid-19-issuing-emergency-use-authorization-first-covid-19

"The vaccine was 95% effective in preventing COVID-19 disease among these clinical trial participants with eight COVID-19 cases in the vaccine group and 162 in the placebo group. Of these 170 COVID-19 cases, one in the vaccine group and three in the placebo group were classified as severe. At this time, data are not available to make a determination about how long the vaccine will provide protection, nor is there evidence that the vaccine prevents transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from person to person." (emphasis added)

So the media portraying the "big lie" regarding the vaccines are following revisionist history. There was no big pharmaceutical conspiracy. They reported exactly what the data said, that it protected (95%) against symptomatic infection of the prevailing strains, and 100% admitted they did not know about whether it protected against spread.

Others in the media/government indicated it reduced spread of the existing strains, which was true, but all that was based on epidemiological data and trends, not any official trial...and no one ever claimed otherwise.

[MU82]

Don't worry, the incoming House is planning to "investigate" everything about the Covid response, and I'm sure they'll do a thorough, facts-only review.

[tower912]

Fauci will kick their butts sideways.  But they won't realize it.  Or care.