Golf 2022

[The Sultan]

I mean maybe in a few years you're right but as we know money isn't their first priority.   How much would they have to lose to really care? 

Money isn't their first priority?  How do we know that?

[MuggsyB]

Money isn't their first priority?  How do we know that?

Because they just bought Pat Perez for 10m.  For all we know they might offer Fluffy the Monster 5m for playing the LIV tour.

[The Sultan]

Because they just bought Pat Perez for 10m.  For all we know they might offer Fluffy the Monster 5m for playing the LIV tour.

They are willing to lose on the front end as an initial investment. Believe me they aren't doing this to lose money in the long run.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I think they're paying content creators as well. I watch quite a few golf YouTube channels and one of them was openly promoting the LIV.

Now I take all internet comments sections with a grain of salt, but a lot of them were none to happy about him promoting the LIV.

[tower912]

If the offer me $10 million, I will forego the PGA champions tour.

[Uncle Rico]

This is what the Saudi's want.  Golf is ancillary and the players partaking are doing the work of the Saudi government to achieve these goals.  If golf undergoes a major identity crisis, they don't really care.  This isn't good for golf despite what the idiots playing in it tell you. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Vision_2030

[jesmu84]

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/what-is-sportswashing-and-does-it-work/

[MU82]

They are willing to lose on the front end as an initial investment. Believe me they aren't doing this to lose money in the long run.

I don't think they're "doing it to lose money," but I do think there's a very real chance that they know they very well might never make money.

They are beyond rich, so rich that us mere millionaires and billionaires can't put ourselves into their heads to try to discern what they're really thinking. But couldn't it all be about prestige and power and control? (Or at least mostly about that?)

People do not buy private jets and helicopters and yachts and exotic pets and Ferraris and Rolexes and spots on flights to outer space to make money on those things. They buy those things because they can, they buy those things to gain prestige. They buy those things to show the world, "I am effen rich, and you'll always be poor."

Is it possible that Phil and DJ and Pat Freakin' Perez are just yachts and exotic pets to these bazillionaires?

Now, as is the case with classic cars, jewelry and some other uber-expensive things, they can end up actually having been good investments that become worth more than they were at the time of purchase. Maybe - though I really don't see how at this point - that will be the case this time too.

In his interview yesterday, Monahan asked: "Why is this group spending so much money — billions of dollars — recruiting players and chasing a concept with no possibility of a return?"

He obviously has a stake in the whole thing and is pretty much the least objective observer out there. But that doesn't mean his question lacks merit.

"Why is this group spending so much money — billions of dollars — recruiting players and chasing a concept with no possibility of a return?"

[WhiteTrash]

I get and agree with the harsh criticism of the Saudis but where is the outrage with the PGA's involvement with China? China is 1,000x worse in terms of human rights violations.

I can get behind any anger towards the Saudis for hurting the sport of pro golf, but any criticism based upon the Saudi's human rights violations with out at least equal outrage toward the PGA rings hollow, to me.

[4everwarriors]

I don't think they're "doing it to lose money," but I do think there's a very real chance that they know they very well might never make money.

They are beyond rich, so rich that us mere millionaires and billionaires can't put ourselves into their heads to try to discern what they're really thinking. But couldn't it all be about prestige and power and control? (Or at least mostly about that?)

People do not buy private jets and helicopters and yachts and exotic pets and Ferraris and Rolexes and spots on flights to outer space to make money on those things. They buy those things because they can, they buy those things to gain prestige. They buy those things to show the world, "I am effen rich, and you'll always be poor."

Is it possible that Phil and DJ and Pat Freakin' Perez are just yachts and exotic pets to these bazillionaires?

Now, as is the case with classic cars, jewelry and some other uber-expensive things, they can end up actually having been good investments that become worth more than they were at the time of purchase. Maybe - though I really don't see how at this point - that will be the case this time too.

In his interview yesterday, Monahan asked: "Why is this group spending so much money — billions of dollars — recruiting players and chasing a concept with no possibility of a return?"

He obviously has a stake in the whole thing and is pretty much the least objective observer out there. But that doesn't mean his question lacks merit.

"Why is this group spending so much money — billions of dollars — recruiting players and chasing a concept with no possibility of a return?"

Sew, day're privileged, aina?

[🏀]

The Saudi's view it as spending a few billion now to have complete control of professional golf in 20 years when it's worth $20+ billon.

I get and agree with the harsh criticism of the Saudis but where is the outrage with the PGA's involvement with China? China is 1,000x worse in terms of human rights violations.

I can get behind any anger towards the Saudis for hurting the sport of pro golf, but any criticism based upon the Saudi's human rights violations with out at least equal outrage toward the PGA rings hollow, to me.

[4everwarriors]

The Saudi's view it as spending a few billion now to have complete control of professional golf in 20 years when it's worth $20+ billon.

SLM, hey?

[The Sultan]

I get and agree with the harsh criticism of the Saudis but where is the outrage with the PGA's involvement with China? China is 1,000x worse in terms of human rights violations.

I can get behind any anger towards the Saudis for hurting the sport of pro golf, but any criticism based upon the Saudi's human rights violations with out at least equal outrage toward the PGA rings hollow, to me.

There is a bit of a difference.  The PGA is using China as a market for growth - which is done by businesses, etc. all of the time regardless of their human rights issues.  There's all sorts of precedence for this in not only China, but other countries as well. 

The Saudis are starting up an entire tour, using their oil money, in an attempt to legitimize a regime that is pretty deplorable.

[MU82]

There is a bit of a difference.  The PGA is using China as a market for growth - which is done by businesses, etc. all of the time regardless of their human rights issues.  There's all sorts of precedence for this in not only China, but other countries as well. 

The Saudis are starting up an entire tour, using their oil money, in an attempt to legitimize a regime that is pretty deplorable.

Won't stop the "but what about China?" knee-jerk response of those who for some reason insist upon defending the Saudi regime and its supporters, but that was very well said.

[WhiteTrash]

Won't stop the "but what about China?" knee-jerk response of those who for some reason insist upon defending the Saudi regime and its supporters, but that was very well said.

So pointing out the relationship between the PGA and China equals 'defending the Saudi regime'? Or is it uncomfortable for those who 'defend the Chinese regime' to be reminded of its materially worse record than the Saudis and deflect by claiming 'knee-jerk response'? Intelligent people can recognize the abhorrent human rights record of both counties and not have to choose 'China good', 'Saudi bad'.

Maybe it's as simple for some people that the Saudi's are competing with the PGA, so now they care.  I suppose we'll see massive growth of compassion for humans and outrage with China if China simply starts a league to compete with the NBA.

[The Sultan]

So pointing out the relationship between the PGA and China equals 'defending the Saudi regime'? Or is it uncomfortable for those who 'defend the Chinese regime' to be reminded of its materially worse record than the Saudis and deflect by claiming 'knee-jerk response'? Intelligent people can recognize the abhorrent human rights record of both counties and not have to choose 'China good', 'Saudi bad'.

Maybe it's as simple for some people that the Saudi's are competing with the PGA, so now they care.  I suppose we'll see massive growth of compassion for humans and outrage with China if China simply starts a league to compete with the NBA.

Again, I don't think the situations are the same though.  The PGA using China as a market is not the same as actually working for the Saudi regime.

[WhiteTrash]

Again, I don't think the situations are the same though.  The PGA using China as a market is not the same as actually working for the Saudi regime.

I wasn't responding to your post. I agree there are nuanced differences. Personally, I don't see as 'apples and oranges' but more like 'red delicious and golden delicious'. Reasonable people can disagree on this point.

I had no problem with your post; you never painted someone who points out the ills of China as someone dismisses the Saudi's sins. 

[MU82]

So pointing out the relationship between the PGA and China equals 'defending the Saudi regime'? Or is it uncomfortable for those who 'defend the Chinese regime' to be reminded of its materially worse record than the Saudis and deflect by claiming 'knee-jerk response'? Intelligent people can recognize the abhorrent human rights record of both counties and not have to choose 'China good', 'Saudi bad'.

Maybe it's as simple for some people that the Saudi's are competing with the PGA, so now they care.  I suppose we'll see massive growth of compassion for humans and outrage with China if China simply starts a league to compete with the NBA.

No, it's deflection.

The Saudi regime is corrupt and guilty of horrible crimes against humanity. Immediately pointing to another regime during a conversation of the Saudi regime seems to be an attempt to minimize the atrocities.

It's a separate issue, but yes, China also is guilty of many atrocities, and I wish fewer American entities were in bed with them.

[WhiteTrash]

No, it's deflection.

The Saudi regime is corrupt and guilty of horrible crimes against humanity. Immediately pointing to another regime during a conversation of the Saudi regime seems to be an attempt to minimize the atrocities.

It's a separate issue, but yes, China also is guilty of many atrocities, and I wish fewer American entities were in bed with them.

Deflection would be; "The Saudis are bad but not as bad as North Korea"

Pointing out the hypocracy of the PGA claiming the moral high ground while in bed with Chinese is on point. There is a common denominator; the PGA and immoral regimes.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

[MU82]

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

Yes.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Anyone else golf at Dubsdread at Cog hill? Trying to figure out where I want to go for my birthday round and was wondering if it's worth it.

[MU82]

Anyone else golf at Dubsdread at Cog hill? Trying to figure out where I want to go for my birthday round and was wondering if it's worth it.

Others might disagree, but I always preferred two other Jemsek courses - Cog #2 and Pine Meadow. I haven't played any of them in quite some time though.

[WhiteTrash]

Others might disagree, but I always preferred two other Jemsek courses - Cog #2 and Pine Meadow. I haven't played any of them in quite some time though.

I agree. It's been some time since I played there but Dub's Dread felt 'tricked up' with lots of sand.

[🏀]

Anyone else golf at Dubsdread at Cog hill? Trying to figure out where I want to go for my birthday round and was wondering if it's worth it.

Play Ravines and save yourself the money. Much better public golf in Chicago than Dubs, the place was ruined.

[4everwarriors]

Piss wit da big boys and spring fore da Straits, hey?