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Author Topic: Kolek or Carton?  (Read 1888 times)

rocket ALM surgeon

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2021, 11:05:49 PM »
This question is like asking would you prefer Ginger or Mary Ann . Both Beautiful in their own ways .

Ginger is great for a fling .

 Mary Ann is great for a relationship .

DJ=Ginger
TK=Maryann

  but hermie, who would have done better under shaka?  ginger or maryann?  i'd have to go with maryann as she seems more focused on long term goals.  ginger seemed more like the wam bam thank you thurston types eyna? no calls in the morning.  if maryann's good enough for the professor, then she's good enough for shaka
"you ever been to a caucus...no you haven't, you're a lying dog-faced pony soldier"

MU82

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2021, 11:14:08 PM »
Here’s what I know. When Shaka was first hired Carton was all over Twitter about being all in to playing for Shaka. Once Shaka hit town, met with the players and told them what he thought of their games and what his expectations were for them - Carton pulled a 180 and hit the bricks. Hmmm…My reading of the tea leaves? Shaka was very much OK with Carton leaving, maybe even nudged him a bit towards the door.

Cool. And Garcia was "scared" of OMP. I'm hearing lots of stories today.

This whole thing is just a silly hypothetical exercise. We might as well be debating if we'd rather have Ja Morant and Anthony Davis; like Garcia and Carton, they're not an option for this team, either.

I appreciate Dawson and DJ choosing to play at Marquette last season, I appreciate the effort they gave on the court, and I wish them success in their careers from here on out. I'm glad we have Lewis and Kolek, two second-year players who seem to have great tomorrows and pretty darn good todays.
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2021, 11:28:59 PM »
Carton is better at basketball than Kolek, by a lot.

Carton opted out and Kolek opted in so the first sentence is moot.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

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Lennys Tap

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2021, 11:30:28 PM »
Cool. And Garcia was "scared" of OMP. I'm hearing lots of stories today.

This whole thing is just a silly hypothetical exercise. We might as well be debating if we'd rather have Ja Morant and Anthony Davis; like Garcia and Carton, they're not an option for this team, either.

I appreciate Dawson and DJ choosing to play at Marquette last season, I appreciate the effort they gave on the court, and I wish them success in their careers from here on out. I'm glad we have Lewis and Kolek, two second-year players who seem to have great tomorrows and pretty darn good todays.

C’mon, Mike.

One is a deduction based on chronological facts as we know them and one is ridiculous on its face.

MU82

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2021, 11:42:27 PM »
C’mon, Mike.

One is a deduction based on chronological facts as we know them and one is ridiculous on its face.

C'mon, Tony.

I have seen zero proof that Shaka wouldn't have been happy to have a talented player like DJ Carton on this team, and zero proof that Carton left because he was pissed off about some supposed expectations that Shaka supposedly laid out for him. If you have evidence of the latter, please provide it.

But again ... it's moot. It's a silly hypothetical exercise. Not sure why Kolek fans feel it's necessary to bash DJ to help make their case (not saying that's you). If Carton had the exact same game yesterday that Kolek did, we both know that some Scoopers would have focused on the 5 turnovers, and that's sad.

Anyhoo ... I like having Kolek on this season's team and I hope he continues to improve; I liked having Carton on last season's team and I wish him well in his pro career.
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

4everwarriors

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2021, 03:37:03 AM »
Lotsa folks on last year's team sucked major ass includin' da coach. Adios and da horses they rode in on.
I've had a Shaka jones since da rumors began and it continues to grow. May just be da old, white, dentist in me, aina?
« Last Edit: November 21, 2021, 03:52:23 AM by 4everwarriors »
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

WarriorFan

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2021, 04:48:41 AM »
love the one you're with...
"The meaning of life isn't gnashing our bicuspids over what comes after death but tasting the tiny moments that come before it."

real chili 83

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2021, 07:35:14 AM »
You can find Carton on a milk carton. You’ll find Kolek playing for a championship tonight.

Says it all.

MUfan12

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2021, 08:00:29 AM »
Lotsa folks on last year's team sucked major ass includin' da coach. Adios and da horses they rode in on.
I've had a Shaka jones since da rumors began and it continues to grow. May just be da old, white, dentist in me, aina?

Call me an old white dentist, then. I haven't given a thought to any of those guys, outside of being happy about Jamal's strong start.

The guys we have fight for that jersey and I love em for it.

MU82

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2021, 08:09:45 AM »
love the one you're with...

Who is doing anything different in this case?
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

Uncle Rico

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2021, 08:14:26 AM »
Who is doing anything different in this case?

It’s consistent thinking with when the Hausers left, aina?
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

Lennys Tap

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2021, 08:20:15 AM »
C'mon, Tony.

I have seen zero proof that Shaka wouldn't have been happy to have a talented player like DJ Carton on this team, and zero proof that Carton left because he was pissed off about some supposed expectations that Shaka supposedly laid out for him. If you have evidence of the latter, please provide it.


Timeline:

1.Shaka is hired. Carton via Twitter gushes excitement. Says he can’t wait to play for Shaka.

2. Shaka arrives on campus, meets with the players and discusses their roles for the upcoming season.

3. Carton leaves shortly thereafter.

You call that zero evidence. I very much disagree. Circumstantial, to be sure, but in this kind of a situation there’s rarely a smoking gun.

You think Carton played his ass off and was really good here. I watched the same guy and think he was very talented, played hard in spurts, was an up and downer and (killer for a PG) didn’t make others better. Maybe Shaka saw what I saw.


MU82

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2021, 08:29:27 AM »
Timeline:

1.Shaka is hired. Carton via Twitter gushes excitement. Says he can’t wait to play for Shaka.

2. Shaka arrives on campus, meets with the players and discusses their roles for the upcoming season.

3. Carton leaves shortly thereafter.

You call that zero evidence. I very much disagree. Circumstantial, to be sure, but in this kind of a situation there’s rarely a smoking gun.

You think Carton played his ass off and was really good here. I watched the same guy and think he was very talented, played hard in spurts, was an up and downer and (killer for a PG) didn’t make others better. Maybe Shaka saw what I saw.

OK, Tony, we'll agree to disagree.

It’s consistent thinking with when the Hausers left, aina?

Yes, some are less moved by the "circumstantial evidence" that Joey pouted when told to man-up and that he and his family then ruined a good season by trying to turn the rest of the team against their All-American teammate. Adios and da horses they rode in on, nu?
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2021, 08:29:28 AM »
From what I understand, Shaka and Co were shocked that he left.  But my guess is that Shaka's expectations and vision for his role were different than Wojo's and that he didn't want to be a part of it. 
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Uncle Rico

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2021, 08:31:47 AM »
I’ve heard DJ was afraid of Michael Kennedy taking his playing time and Shaka told him to get a haircut.
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

Pakuni

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2021, 09:32:49 AM »
You know, it's entirely possible, if not likely, that DJ's decision to turn pro had nothing to do with Shaka. Maybe his family needed money. Maybe he didn't like college. Maybe he believed he would develop better and improve his long-term prospects as a full-time professional player.

Pakuni

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #41 on: November 21, 2021, 09:38:48 AM »
Timeline:

1.Shaka is hired. Carton via Twitter gushes excitement. Says he can’t wait to play for Shaka.

2. Shaka arrives on campus, meets with the players and discusses their roles for the upcoming season.

3. Carton leaves shortly thereafter.


Fake news.
Shaka arrived March 28. DJ left April 28.
This is not "shortly thereafter."

The idea Shaka wouldn't want someone with DJ's abilities is ludicrous.
Again, DJ left for his own reasons, and they likely had nothing to do with Shaka or Marquette.
But people see what they want to see.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #42 on: November 21, 2021, 09:45:31 AM »
You know, it's entirely possible, if not likely, that DJ's decision to turn pro had nothing to do with Shaka. Maybe his family needed money. Maybe he didn't like college. Maybe he believed he would develop better and improve his long-term prospects as a full-time professional player.

Absolutely all those things are possible. But the initial enthusiasm  that DJ expressed re the opportunity to play at Marquette for Shaka mitigate against them being likely. And the fact that he did a complete 180 after meeting with Shaka make it likely that something he heard in that meeting changed his mind.

Elonsmusk

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #43 on: November 21, 2021, 09:47:33 AM »
Carton is better at basketball than Kolek, by a lot.


Wrong.  By a lot. 

You could say DJ is a better athlete, by a lot, but that's about it.
No doubt there are cultural differences, but sports is important for many Asians.

Hoops92

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2021, 09:49:46 AM »
I heard Shaka wouldn’t give DJ a high five.

Pakuni

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #45 on: November 21, 2021, 09:51:46 AM »
Absolutely all those things are possible. But the initial enthusiasm  that DJ expressed re the opportunity to play at Marquette for Shaka mitigate against them being likely. And the fact that he did a complete 180 after meeting with Shaka make it likely that something he heard in that meeting changed his mind.

If he heard something in that meeting that changed his mind, why did he stick around practicing with the team for a month?
If it was something the coach told him, and not about college vs pro, why didn't he enter the transfer portal and explore his collegiate options?
Why did he immediately hire an agent, and not at least keep college available as a Plan B?
If Shaka didn't really want DJ to be a part of the program, why did he travel to Iowa to meet with DJ's family?

Seems like a whole lot of circumstantial evidence pointing the other way.


DoctorV

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #46 on: November 21, 2021, 09:54:07 AM »
Lotsa folks on last year's team sucked major ass includin' da coach. Adios and da horses they rode in on.
I've had a Shaka jones since da rumors began and it continues to grow. May just be da old, white, dentist in me, aina?

Retire already so the rest of us can make some money!

Lennys Tap

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #47 on: November 21, 2021, 10:02:26 AM »
Carton is better at basketball than Kolek, by a lot.


Carton is better than Kolek, by a lot?

Cain is better than O -Max

Dawson is better than Lewis

Theo is equal to Kuath

Morsell is better than Koby

We should suck way more this year than we did last year. How’s that workin’ out so far?


Uncle Rico

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #48 on: November 21, 2021, 10:07:05 AM »
I heard Shaka wouldn’t give DJ a high five.

I’ve heard this, too.  Sad!
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

DoctorV

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Re: Kolek or Carton?
« Reply #49 on: November 21, 2021, 10:07:53 AM »
Timeline:

1.Shaka is hired. Carton via Twitter gushes excitement. Says he can’t wait to play for Shaka.

2. Shaka arrives on campus, meets with the players and discusses their roles for the upcoming season.

3. Carton leaves shortly thereafter.

You call that zero evidence. I very much disagree. Circumstantial, to be sure, but in this kind of a situation there’s rarely a smoking gun.

You think Carton played his ass off and was really good here. I watched the same guy and think he was very talented, played hard in spurts, was an up and downer and (killer for a PG) didn’t make others better. Maybe Shaka saw what I saw.

I see where you’re going here, and I can see both sides.

However, more circumstantial evidence here but I think you’re missing a big smoking gun- Tyler Kolek and a push for Darryl Morsell.

I know some might think it’s crazy that DJC would leave because Tyler came in, but I don’t think it’s that far fetched.

April 14th/15th Shaka announced all those new signings, and Kolek was a big one. Two weeks later, DJ was gone.

That two week period where Shaka bunkered up and recruited his tail off is an amazing point in MUbb history now that we see what we have.

He did things so differently- there was the famous photo of him on the phone outside the Al- there were no leaks, no one on the outside had any idea what he was up to. He just worked tirelessly and pretty much put this current team together in those two weeks. Darryl was left to get, but Shaka was still working on coach Haynes (if memory serves) and obviously hopeful that Morsell would be the final piece.

I think that Shaka going and getting Tyler, along with his hope on bringing in Darryl, likely told DJC that he wouldn’t be the only alpha at the point and that time would be split.

In the same breath I think Shaka recruited Kur and OMax knowing Dawson was likely out the door. May not have been official but it’s almost as if he made the decision that whoever was committed would stay, but that he had to recruit to fill the needs before the options became limited.

He moved quickly and stealthily, he moved efficiently and gracefully.
And here we are
« Last Edit: November 21, 2021, 10:10:13 AM by DoctorV »

 

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