MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MuggsyB on November 20, 2021, 12:52:26 PM
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Sorry, I had to.
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Carton is the better individual player. Kolek so far has been a nicer floor general. though, carton in Shaka's system might have been nice if he bought in. he's quicker than TK, but not as pass first.
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Karim Mane
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Niv Berkowitz. Or Kevin Menard.
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For this season only? It’s a pretty tough call. I’m too biased, because I really like Kolek.
For long term? Kolek and it’s not close. Carton would have only been one more season and always had eyes on the next level.
MU has had early success, but it’s still a rebuilding year. That’s why I’m not at all mad Garcia and Carton are no longer here. For the same reason, I would have liked to see more of Mitchell than Elliot last night.
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For this season only? It’s a pretty tough call. I’m too biased, because I really like Kolek.
For long term? Kolek and it’s not close. Carton would have only been one more season and always had eyes on the next level.
MU has had early success, but it’s still a rebuilding year. That’s why I’m not at all mad Garcia and Carton are no longer here. For the same reason, I would have liked to see more of Mitchell than Elliot last night.
Agree 100% Well said.
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Does anyone believe Carton would see the court under Shaka? It would of taken a total personality change for Carton to see the floor. Anything less than a 100% effort all the time just will not cut it under Shaka.
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Not even close. TK by a country roads mile.
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Does anyone believe Carton would see the court under Shaka? It would of taken a total personality change for Carton to see the floor. Anything less than a 100% effort all the time just will not cut it under Shaka.
I think he would have been fine. It would have been interesting to see him play for Shaka. He had all of the athletic tools and I think he would have bought in.
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I think Carton and Garcia both have the tools if they had the buy in. As happy as I am to see Jamal do well at Oakland, the thought of him in a dribble drive offense gives me shivers. The dribbling and driving part. Standing weakside and catching passes off of penetration would be ok.
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I wouldn’t trade anyone on this current team for any of the players who let. The sum seems greater than the parts right now. Building a real team that exceeds the talent of the individuals is hard to come by and wouldn’t want to substitute anyone. Additionally, despite their talents, none of those players who left seemed to play below their talent level rather than at or above it. That probably was mostly Wojo but I’m not heartbroken they are gone.
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Does anyone believe Carton would see the court under Shaka?
Yes.
It would of taken a total personality change for Carton to see the floor.
You know nothing about Carton. His personality would have been fine for Shaka, who is an excellent motivator and ego-handler.
Anything less than a 100% effort all the time just will not cut it under Shaka.
You apparently didn't watch Carton play last season. He has a good motor, he played very hard, and Shaka would have made very good use of him.
DJ has a lot of talent. He needed it nurtured. Shaka would have been just what the doctor ordered for him.
That's what I choose to believe based on everything I know.
You are free to choose to keep tearing down a young man who gave his all to our alma mater's basketball team.
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Just like the other thread.
I think DJ woulda fit just fine. But again, if I had to choose I would absolutely take the guy we have.
In the Kolek vs DJ case it really comes down to the fact one guy should be here 4 years. The other was gonna be 1 tops.
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This question is like asking would you prefer Ginger or Mary Ann . Both Beautiful in their own ways .
Ginger is great for a fling .
Mary Ann is great for a relationship .
DJ=Ginger
TK=Maryann
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Iz dis evan a question, hey?
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Just like the other thread.
I think DJ woulda fit just fine. But again, if I had to choose I would absolutely take the guy we have.
In the Kolek vs DJ case it really comes down to the fact one guy should be here 4 years. The other was gonna be 1 tops.
This is why I think the real choice was DJ vs Morsell. Morsell doesn’t come here if DJ was still here. Both would’ve been here for this year only. Morsell a much more complete player, gets after on both ends of the court. Calming influence and clutch free throw shooter in end of game situations.
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Gang, I want guy who want to be here playing for our Warriors.
I wish DJ, Dawson, Theo, Jamal, Kobe et al the best and hope they do good things in their new circumstances.
But in the words of Kevin O’Leary from Shark Tank, “You are dead to me…”
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I wish both players well. Carton had multiple challenges that prevented us from seeing what he could become. To paraphrase Kolek in that radio interview from last night, there are athletes who play basketball and there are basketball players. Kolek is a player. At this point, Carton is an athlete who has the potential to become a basketball player.
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I have to pick Kolek, he has a way better jump shot and is a way better floor general. The only thing I would rather have Carton for is length and defense in the press. Also Carton had the worst attitude, there was reports of him blaming everyone except himself which you do not want in a locker room.
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Adios, and da horse he road inn on, hey?
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DJ Carton stuck around when Shaka was hired, then quit and left campus in the middle of the night.
Kolek wants to be here.
Is this really even a question???
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Gang, I want guy who want to be here playing for our Warriors.
/thread
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Not even close. TK by a country roads mile.
After last night’s sing along? Hell, I’m thinking of renaming my 16 year old from Travis to Tyler.
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Niv Berkowitz. Or Kevin Menard.
Never thought I see Kevin Menard brought up here. He was my high school coach for a bit. Called all our plays based off Marquette names.
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Yes.
You know nothing about Carton. His personality would have been fine for Shaka, who is an excellent motivator and ego-handler.
You apparently didn't watch Carton play last season. He has a good motor, he played very hard, and Shaka would have made very good use of him.
DJ has a lot of talent. He needed it nurtured. Shaka would have been just what the doctor ordered for him.
That's what I choose to believe based on everything I know.
You are free to choose to keep tearing down a young man who gave his all to our alma mater's basketball team.
Here’s what I know. When Shaka was first hired Carton was all over Twitter about being all in to playing for Shaka. Once Shaka hit town, met with the players and told them what he thought of their games and what his expectations were for them - Carton pulled a 180 and hit the bricks. Hmmm…My reading of the tea leaves? Shaka was very much OK with Carton leaving, maybe even nudged him a bit towards the door.
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This question is like asking would you prefer Ginger or Mary Ann . Both Beautiful in their own ways .
Ginger is great for a fling .
Mary Ann is great for a relationship .
DJ=Ginger
TK=Maryann
but hermie, who would have done better under shaka? ginger or maryann? i'd have to go with maryann as she seems more focused on long term goals. ginger seemed more like the wam bam thank you thurston types eyna? no calls in the morning. if maryann's good enough for the professor, then she's good enough for shaka
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Here’s what I know. When Shaka was first hired Carton was all over Twitter about being all in to playing for Shaka. Once Shaka hit town, met with the players and told them what he thought of their games and what his expectations were for them - Carton pulled a 180 and hit the bricks. Hmmm…My reading of the tea leaves? Shaka was very much OK with Carton leaving, maybe even nudged him a bit towards the door.
Cool. And Garcia was "scared" of OMP. I'm hearing lots of stories today.
This whole thing is just a silly hypothetical exercise. We might as well be debating if we'd rather have Ja Morant and Anthony Davis; like Garcia and Carton, they're not an option for this team, either.
I appreciate Dawson and DJ choosing to play at Marquette last season, I appreciate the effort they gave on the court, and I wish them success in their careers from here on out. I'm glad we have Lewis and Kolek, two second-year players who seem to have great tomorrows and pretty darn good todays.
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Carton is better at basketball than Kolek, by a lot.
Carton opted out and Kolek opted in so the first sentence is moot.
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Cool. And Garcia was "scared" of OMP. I'm hearing lots of stories today.
This whole thing is just a silly hypothetical exercise. We might as well be debating if we'd rather have Ja Morant and Anthony Davis; like Garcia and Carton, they're not an option for this team, either.
I appreciate Dawson and DJ choosing to play at Marquette last season, I appreciate the effort they gave on the court, and I wish them success in their careers from here on out. I'm glad we have Lewis and Kolek, two second-year players who seem to have great tomorrows and pretty darn good todays.
C’mon, Mike.
One is a deduction based on chronological facts as we know them and one is ridiculous on its face.
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C’mon, Mike.
One is a deduction based on chronological facts as we know them and one is ridiculous on its face.
C'mon, Tony.
I have seen zero proof that Shaka wouldn't have been happy to have a talented player like DJ Carton on this team, and zero proof that Carton left because he was pissed off about some supposed expectations that Shaka supposedly laid out for him. If you have evidence of the latter, please provide it.
But again ... it's moot. It's a silly hypothetical exercise. Not sure why Kolek fans feel it's necessary to bash DJ to help make their case (not saying that's you). If Carton had the exact same game yesterday that Kolek did, we both know that some Scoopers would have focused on the 5 turnovers, and that's sad.
Anyhoo ... I like having Kolek on this season's team and I hope he continues to improve; I liked having Carton on last season's team and I wish him well in his pro career.
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Lotsa folks on last year's team sucked major ass includin' da coach. Adios and da horses they rode in on.
I've had a Shaka jones since da rumors began and it continues to grow. May just be da old, white, dentist in me, aina?
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love the one you're with...
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You can find Carton on a milk carton. You’ll find Kolek playing for a championship tonight.
Says it all.
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Lotsa folks on last year's team sucked major ass includin' da coach. Adios and da horses they rode in on.
I've had a Shaka jones since da rumors began and it continues to grow. May just be da old, white, dentist in me, aina?
Call me an old white dentist, then. I haven't given a thought to any of those guys, outside of being happy about Jamal's strong start.
The guys we have fight for that jersey and I love em for it.
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love the one you're with...
Who is doing anything different in this case?
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Who is doing anything different in this case?
It’s consistent thinking with when the Hausers left, aina?
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C'mon, Tony.
I have seen zero proof that Shaka wouldn't have been happy to have a talented player like DJ Carton on this team, and zero proof that Carton left because he was pissed off about some supposed expectations that Shaka supposedly laid out for him. If you have evidence of the latter, please provide it.
Timeline:
1.Shaka is hired. Carton via Twitter gushes excitement. Says he can’t wait to play for Shaka.
2. Shaka arrives on campus, meets with the players and discusses their roles for the upcoming season.
3. Carton leaves shortly thereafter.
You call that zero evidence. I very much disagree. Circumstantial, to be sure, but in this kind of a situation there’s rarely a smoking gun.
You think Carton played his ass off and was really good here. I watched the same guy and think he was very talented, played hard in spurts, was an up and downer and (killer for a PG) didn’t make others better. Maybe Shaka saw what I saw.
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Timeline:
1.Shaka is hired. Carton via Twitter gushes excitement. Says he can’t wait to play for Shaka.
2. Shaka arrives on campus, meets with the players and discusses their roles for the upcoming season.
3. Carton leaves shortly thereafter.
You call that zero evidence. I very much disagree. Circumstantial, to be sure, but in this kind of a situation there’s rarely a smoking gun.
You think Carton played his ass off and was really good here. I watched the same guy and think he was very talented, played hard in spurts, was an up and downer and (killer for a PG) didn’t make others better. Maybe Shaka saw what I saw.
OK, Tony, we'll agree to disagree.
It’s consistent thinking with when the Hausers left, aina?
Yes, some are less moved by the "circumstantial evidence" that Joey pouted when told to man-up and that he and his family then ruined a good season by trying to turn the rest of the team against their All-American teammate. Adios and da horses they rode in on, nu?
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From what I understand, Shaka and Co were shocked that he left. But my guess is that Shaka's expectations and vision for his role were different than Wojo's and that he didn't want to be a part of it.
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I’ve heard DJ was afraid of Michael Kennedy taking his playing time and Shaka told him to get a haircut.
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You know, it's entirely possible, if not likely, that DJ's decision to turn pro had nothing to do with Shaka. Maybe his family needed money. Maybe he didn't like college. Maybe he believed he would develop better and improve his long-term prospects as a full-time professional player.
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Timeline:
1.Shaka is hired. Carton via Twitter gushes excitement. Says he can’t wait to play for Shaka.
2. Shaka arrives on campus, meets with the players and discusses their roles for the upcoming season.
3. Carton leaves shortly thereafter.
Fake news.
Shaka arrived March 28. DJ left April 28.
This is not "shortly thereafter."
The idea Shaka wouldn't want someone with DJ's abilities is ludicrous.
Again, DJ left for his own reasons, and they likely had nothing to do with Shaka or Marquette.
But people see what they want to see.
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You know, it's entirely possible, if not likely, that DJ's decision to turn pro had nothing to do with Shaka. Maybe his family needed money. Maybe he didn't like college. Maybe he believed he would develop better and improve his long-term prospects as a full-time professional player.
Absolutely all those things are possible. But the initial enthusiasm that DJ expressed re the opportunity to play at Marquette for Shaka mitigate against them being likely. And the fact that he did a complete 180 after meeting with Shaka make it likely that something he heard in that meeting changed his mind.
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Carton is better at basketball than Kolek, by a lot.
Wrong. By a lot.
You could say DJ is a better athlete, by a lot, but that's about it.
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I heard Shaka wouldn’t give DJ a high five.
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Absolutely all those things are possible. But the initial enthusiasm that DJ expressed re the opportunity to play at Marquette for Shaka mitigate against them being likely. And the fact that he did a complete 180 after meeting with Shaka make it likely that something he heard in that meeting changed his mind.
If he heard something in that meeting that changed his mind, why did he stick around practicing with the team for a month?
If it was something the coach told him, and not about college vs pro, why didn't he enter the transfer portal and explore his collegiate options?
Why did he immediately hire an agent, and not at least keep college available as a Plan B?
If Shaka didn't really want DJ to be a part of the program, why did he travel to Iowa to meet with DJ's family?
Seems like a whole lot of circumstantial evidence pointing the other way.
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Lotsa folks on last year's team sucked major ass includin' da coach. Adios and da horses they rode in on.
I've had a Shaka jones since da rumors began and it continues to grow. May just be da old, white, dentist in me, aina?
Retire already so the rest of us can make some money!
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Carton is better at basketball than Kolek, by a lot.
Carton is better than Kolek, by a lot?
Cain is better than O -Max
Dawson is better than Lewis
Theo is equal to Kuath
Morsell is better than Koby
We should suck way more this year than we did last year. How’s that workin’ out so far?
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I heard Shaka wouldn’t give DJ a high five.
I’ve heard this, too. Sad!
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Timeline:
1.Shaka is hired. Carton via Twitter gushes excitement. Says he can’t wait to play for Shaka.
2. Shaka arrives on campus, meets with the players and discusses their roles for the upcoming season.
3. Carton leaves shortly thereafter.
You call that zero evidence. I very much disagree. Circumstantial, to be sure, but in this kind of a situation there’s rarely a smoking gun.
You think Carton played his ass off and was really good here. I watched the same guy and think he was very talented, played hard in spurts, was an up and downer and (killer for a PG) didn’t make others better. Maybe Shaka saw what I saw.
I see where you’re going here, and I can see both sides.
However, more circumstantial evidence here but I think you’re missing a big smoking gun- Tyler Kolek and a push for Darryl Morsell.
I know some might think it’s crazy that DJC would leave because Tyler came in, but I don’t think it’s that far fetched.
April 14th/15th Shaka announced all those new signings, and Kolek was a big one. Two weeks later, DJ was gone.
That two week period where Shaka bunkered up and recruited his tail off is an amazing point in MUbb history now that we see what we have.
He did things so differently- there was the famous photo of him on the phone outside the Al- there were no leaks, no one on the outside had any idea what he was up to. He just worked tirelessly and pretty much put this current team together in those two weeks. Darryl was left to get, but Shaka was still working on coach Haynes (if memory serves) and obviously hopeful that Morsell would be the final piece.
I think that Shaka going and getting Tyler, along with his hope on bringing in Darryl, likely told DJC that he wouldn’t be the only alpha at the point and that time would be split.
In the same breath I think Shaka recruited Kur and OMax knowing Dawson was likely out the door. May not have been official but it’s almost as if he made the decision that whoever was committed would stay, but that he had to recruit to fill the needs before the options became limited.
He moved quickly and stealthily, he moved efficiently and gracefully.
And here we are
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I see where you’re going here, and I can see both sides.
However, more circumstantial evidence here but I think you’re missing a big smoking gun- Tyler Kolek and a push for Darryl Morsell.
I know some might think it’s crazy that DJC would leave because Tyler came in, but I don’t think it’s that far fetched.
April 14th/15th Shaka announced all those new signings, and Kolek was a big one. Two weeks later, DJ was gone.
That two week period where Shaka bunkered up and recruited his tail off is an amazing point in MUbb history now that we see what we have.
He did things so differently- there was the famous photo of him on the phone outside the Al- there were no leaks, no one on the outside had any idea what he was up to. He just worked tirelessly and pretty much put this current team together in those two weeks. Darryl was left to get, but Shaka was still working on coach Haynes (if memory serves) and obviously hopeful that Morsell would be the final piece.
I think that Shaka going and getting Tyler, along with his hope on bringing in Darryl, likely told DJC that he wouldn’t be the only alpha at the point and that time would be split.
In the same breath I think Shaka recruited Kur and OMax knowing Dawson was likely out the door. May not have been official but it’s almost as if he made the decision that whoever was committed would stay, but that he had to recruit to fill the needs before the options became limited.
He moved quickly and stealthily, he moved efficiently and fantastically.
And here we are
All last year, we heard DJ was one and done at Marquette. And he was.
I suppose we can do the scoop thing and wildly speculate.
Maybe I’m really stupid but him staying in the draft and not transferring again seems like solid evidence what we heard all last year was probably true.
Or maybe Shaka told him the A-10 ROY was better and he’d struggle for PT. Yes, that seems more likely
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Retire already so the rest of us can make some money!
Never baby! When ga gotta it, ya got it, aina?
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Maybe I’m really stupid but him staying in the draft and not transferring again seems like solid evidence what we heard all last year was probably true.
Or maybe Shaka told him the A-10 ROY was better and he’d struggle for PT. Yes, that seems more likely
You’re not stupid, you seem pretty smart!
I never said that second part though.
I moreso meant maybe DJ saw the writing in the wall that he wouldn’t get 35 mpg of pg play.
Otherwise, perhaps all those tweets loving the shaka cop by the university were just Carton caring about the future of Marquette, since he knew he was going the pro route the entire time!
Or maybe kid just doesn’t really know what he wants until shortly before he makes a decision. Millenials or GenZers I tell ya…
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You know, it's entirely possible, if not likely, that DJ's decision to turn pro had nothing to do with Shaka. Maybe his family needed money. Maybe he didn't like college. Maybe he believed he would develop better and improve his long-term prospects as a full-time professional player.
Well, he ain't makin' stink, hey?
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He’s making more than shutting up and dribbling in Milwaukee, aina
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Wrong. By a lot.
You could say DJ is a better athlete, by a lot, but that's about it.
We can agree to disagree. Carton will get a cup of coffee in the NBA, I'd be surprised if Kolek does but would certainly be happy to be wrong.
BTW better at basketball doesn't necessarily mean better for this year's team
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Carton is much better at basketball.
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Carton is much better at basketball.
not even that close
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Not even close. TK by a country roads mile.
My niece.
Or anyone off the bench. ANYONE. Put stevie out there. What would it hurt!? Honestly?
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My niece.
Or anyone off the bench. ANYONE. Put stevie out there. What would it hurt!? Honestly?
S/quote]
Shaka's only offense plan is to have Kolek drive and throw out long passes for threes. We would have no plays on offense without Kolek. However, that might not be any worse.
At this point I would take Carton.
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While we are at it.
Last years team and coach versus this years?
Who would win?
Considering we typically were biting our nails last year hoping MU could hold on to their lead late in the game, I would put monopoly money on this year's team.
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D.J. Carton is a professional basketball player. Tyler Kolek has scored 4 points in December (and 19 points the last 6 games) for a decent college team.
This is a silly debate.
Let's talk again in 2-3 years.
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Tyler Kolek vs Tyson Koller vs Tyrod Kolman
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D.J. Carton is a professional basketball player. Tyler Kolek has scored 4 points in December (and 19 points the last 6 games) for a decent college team.
This is a silly debate.
Let's talk again in 2-3 years.
DJ is putting up similar numbers as to what John Dawson did while he is on the Greensboro Swarm in the G-League. 8-)
I still like Kolek as a player and feel he will be a very good player at MU before all is said and done. But, he certainly is struggling right now. DJ shot 28% from 3 at MU last year. I think Kolek can get there this season, and of course he makes everyone around him better through his passing/penetration.