Rittenhouse Volume 3

[forgetful]

I find a comparison to this case and that of Matthew Dollhoff intriguing. From a standpoint of how people on different sides of the aisle viewed it initially, police handling, and also money flooding in for defense cases.

[Hards Alumni]

I may be wrong, but I don't recall the "active shooter" issue ever coming up in the other thread. This seems to be arising from the prosecutor's closing argument which was, in my opinion, desperate and disingenuous.

Rittenhouse was not acting like an "active shooter" as that term is typically used (i.e., someone who is indiscriminately killing people). He carried that weapon around for hours and did not fire it until he was being chased by someone threatening to kill him and lunging for his gun. After shooting the first person he was leaving the scene and did not shoot anyone else that he didn't perceive as a threat. You may quibble with this description but, by definition, that is what the jury concluded. If I'm not mistaken, he fired eight rounds of the 30 in his mag and only at people who were attacking him (or pointing a gun at him) at the time he fired. That does not feel like an "active shooter." There is every reason to believe that if he had not been attacked, he would not have fired his weapon again. And for the record, I do not fault the people who tried to stop him. As I think someone else said in this thread (or I may have read elsewhere): this was a self defense followed by an absolute tragedy.

I acknowledge that it's very difficult for people in a chaotic situation to know how to act when they may have incomplete information. Assuming for the sake of argument that the second two victims did believe that Rittenhouse was an "active shooter" what should the "rule" be? If, as the jury found, Rittenhouse was legally justified in shooting the first victim (i.e., it was legitimate self defense), is he permitted to defend himself from the mob? Or must he permit himself to be beaten to death?

Mostly what you've said is correct.  What I will say is that Kyle should have been arrested on the spot after the first shooting.  Terrible police work.

That he had to turn himself in a day later after leaving the scene of three shootings also speaks to the situation.

[StillAWarrior]

Well I'm not sure. In my head, anyone who killed a person and truly believes it to be self defense should probably be willing to be detained by a citizen... say another gun owner. Now of course that's a perfect scenario but if Kyle shoots Rosenbaum (who I concede was the aggressor) and then puts his hands up and kneels down I have a tough time imagining a person comes running up with a skateboard.

Maybe we all agree that it would have been sensible for Rittenhouse to do that. Hell, it would have been sensible for him to stay home and/or not bring his gun to a riot. Alas. It is my understanding that after shooting Rosenbaum he was looking for the police were to surrender himself. Honestly, not a particularly bad idea. I can see where someone might prefer that course of action to surrendering your weapon to a mob in the middle of the riot. In the midst of the chaos that was happening (I've heard an awful lot about how violent the situation was and how Rittenhouse should not have brought a gun into such a violent setting), I'm not sure I would have entrusted my life to the mob.

Then lastly let's say even that still happens and Kyle is forced to defend himself there then it would seem to me that he should be willing to be "detained" by say another gun owner.

We will never know what might have happened (or not happened) if Grosskreutz had opted to not level his weapon on Rittenhouse.

[StillAWarrior]

Mostly what you've said is correct.  What I will say is that Kyle should have been arrested on the spot after the first shooting.  Terrible police work.

I agree completely.

[Galway Eagle]

Maybe we all agree that it would have been sensible for Rittenhouse to do that. Hell, it would have been sensible for him to stay home and/or not bring his gun to a riot. Alas. It is my understanding that after shooting Rosenbaum he was looking for the police were to surrender himself. Honestly, not a particularly bad idea. I can see where someone might prefer that course of action to surrendering your weapon to a mob in the middle of the riot. In the midst of the chaos that was happening (I've heard an awful lot about how violent the situation was and how Rittenhouse should not have brought a gun into such a violent setting), I'm not sure I would have entrusted my life to the mob.

We will never know what might have happened (or not happened) if Grosskreutz had opted to not level his weapon on Rittenhouse.

I agree we won't know. I guess my confusion is why Grosskreutz hasn't received any guns rights money or sympathy. The guy was using his gun for something he thought was right self defense of an active shooter. It seems to me any guns rights individual should be a little bit uncomfortable with the ruling that Rittenhouse was justified because it means if you perceive the wrong situation that you can be considered the aggressor.

[rocket surgeon]

Here’s the thing…would you chase after someone who’s openly carrying an AR or any gun for that matter?  Understand, the 3 who were injured or killed were not alter boys. Rosenbaum spent 15 years in prison for child rape. He had numerous violations while incarcerated in Arizona. Huber had an assortment of felonies including holding a knife to his brother and domestic abuse, strangulation and suffocation twice.  Grosskreutz had a dui or 2 and he was carrying a gun illegally and lied about it

[StillAWarrior]

I agree we won't know. I guess my confusion is why Grosskreutz hasn't received any guns rights money or sympathy. The guy was using his gun for something he thought was right self defense of an active shooter. It seems to me any guns rights individual should be a little bit uncomfortable with the ruling that Rittenhouse was justified because it means if you perceive the wrong situation that you can be considered the aggressor.

I think that's a fair take. Of course, I have a lot of confusion about whey Grosskreutz wasn't charged for illegally carrying that weapon. I think we both know the answers to the questions we posed. On the other hand, I could be snarky and suggest that the guns rights gang don't like people who are illegally carrying guns...but we both know that's bullcrap and not the reason.

I am sickened by people who want to make Rittenhouse out to be a hero. It's absolutely disgusting and I hope he doesn't court that group (but know that he probably will).

[Skatastrophy]

Here’s the thing…would you chase after someone who’s openly carrying an AR or any gun for that matter? Understand, the 3 who were injured or killed were not alter boys. Rosenbaum spent 15 years in prison for child rape. He had numerous violations while incarcerated in Arizona. Huber had an assortment of felonies including holding a knife to his brother and domestic abuse, strangulation and suffocation twice.  Grosskreutz had a dui or 2 and he was carrying a gun illegally and lied about it

No, you shoot them. Same if a cop is chasing you or about to draw his weapon.

You know that they have the opportunity to kill you and get away with it, so killing them first is the best option.

[Hards Alumni]

Here’s the thing…would you chase after someone who’s openly carrying an AR or any gun for that matter?  Understand, the 3 who were injured or killed were not alter boys. Rosenbaum spent 15 years in prison for child rape. He had numerous violations while incarcerated in Arizona. Huber had an assortment of felonies including holding a knife to his brother and domestic abuse, strangulation and suffocation twice.  Grosskreutz had a dui or 2 and he was carrying a gun illegally and lied about it

Cool.  Kyle Rittenhouse is also a scumbag who punched a girl in the head a couple of weeks before.

None of these people knew these things about each other before that night, so they are all irrelevant.

[pacearrow02]

Mostly what you've said is correct.  What I will say is that Kyle should have been arrested on the spot after the first shooting.  Terrible police work.

That he had to turn himself in a day later after leaving the scene of three shootings also speaks to the situation.

Either you still don’t know the details of this case or you continue to make stuff up.  He turned himself in within an hour of the shooting, not a day later.

Kenosha PD was barricaded off and closed cause of the riots, he tried to immediately turn himself into a patrol car which resulted in him getting pepper sprayed and told to get the f away so he went home explained what happened to his mom who then immediately brought him to Antioch police station.  All within an hour of the shooting.

[Hards Alumni]

Either you still don’t know the details of this case or you continue to make stuff up.  He turned himself in within an hour of the shooting, not a day later.

Kenosha PD was barricaded off and closed cause of the riots, he tried to immediately turn himself into a patrol car which resulted in him getting pepper sprayed and told to get the f away so he went home explained what happened to his mom who then immediately brought him to Antioch police station.  All within an hour of the shooting.

I'm very aware of the details.  The Kenosha PD told him to 'go home'.  Which he did.  Terrible Police work.  Which is what I said.

But keep going.

[NCMUFan]

What should they have done differently?  Crack some skulls?

Having family in Kenosha, I got some feedback regarding what happened regarding the looting, arson and destruction.
The Wisconsin National Guard just was not there the first couple of days.
Without the Guard to protect, the Kenosha PD alone could not protect all the business regions.
The looters, arsonists and destructors simply went to the areas that were not protected.
When the Guard arrived, the looting, arson and destruction went to nil.
Shame some people lost their livelihood. 

[Hards Alumni]

Having family in Kenosha, I got some feedback regarding what happened regarding the looting, arson and destruction.
The Wisconsin National Guard just was not there the first couple of days.
Without the Guard to protect, the Kenosha PD alone could not protect all the business regions.
The looters, arsonists and destructors simply went to the areas that were not protected.
When the Guard arrived, the looting, arson and destruction went to nil.
Shame some people lost their livelihood.

Thanks, that is exactly what my point was.  There was nothing that could have been done at that point.

Luckily the people who lost their livelihood only lost material things which could be replaced.

[Billy Hoyle]

Thanks, that is exactly what my point was.  There was nothing that could have been done at that point.

Luckily the people who lost their livelihood only lost material things which could be replaced.

and this attitude is why cosplay vigilantes like Rittenhouse felt compelled to go to Kenosha. So people lost everything they'd worked to build, their businesses, their income. Many were minorities. Sorry man, a criminal resisting arrest and armed with a knife was shot, you get to lose everything you and your family worked to build.

My wife has clients who lost their business in the riots for an incident that didn't take place in our city. Insurance wasn't covering much of the damage or loss. One woman tried to take her own life, having lost everything. Others haven't reopened. Others have had to go deep in debt to try and rebuild. I'll have her know they're lucky.

[rocket surgeon]

Thanks, that is exactly what my point was.  There was nothing that could have been done at that point.

Luckily the people who lost their livelihood only lost material things which could be replaced.

so they're lucky because...?  they get to live??   i'd like to see you walk door to door and tell them this to their faces

this all could have been limited if we had some leadership to put stops to the "mostly peaceful rioting"

[Hards Alumni]

and this attitude is why cosplay vigilantes like Rittenhouse felt compelled to go to Kenosha. So people lost everything they'd worked to build, their businesses, their income. Many were minorities. Sorry man, a criminal resisting arrest and armed with a knife was shot, you get to lose everything you and your family worked to build.

My wife has clients who lost their business in the riots for an incident that didn't take place in our city. Insurance wasn't covering much of the damage or loss. One woman tried to take her own life, having lost everything. Others haven't reopened. Others have had to go deep in debt to try and rebuild. I'll have her know they're lucky.

so they're lucky because...?  they get to live??   i'd like to see you walk door to door and tell them this to their faces

this all could have been limited if we had some leadership to put stops to the "mostly peaceful rioting"

Look you twits, I didn't say it was okay to burn down Kenosha, only that luckily material possessions were lost instead of more lives.

But you know, read into things that weren't said, you easily triggered babies.

[Billy Hoyle]

I think the outcome was the correct outcome.  I also believe this never gets to trial if Rittenhouse is a minority because he’s dead before we can get that far.  I don’t think that’s wild speculation at all.

Like this guy?  Oh, wait...

https://www.wpbf.com/article/andrew-coffee-not-guilty-on-all-counts/38304640

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Like this guy?  Oh, wait...

https://www.wpbf.com/article/andrew-coffee-not-guilty-on-all-counts/38304640

Anecdotal.

[GB Warrior]

Feels like there's a stat about black people not being given the benefit of the doubt by law enforcement. Maybe some good anecdotal support from Kenosha. Could be imagining though

[MuggsyB]

Nm

[wadesworld]

Tamir Rice. 12 year old with a toy gun. Shot dead within seconds of police seeing him.

Kyle Rittenhouse. 17 year old from IL “protecting businesses” in WI. Shows up to civil unrest and shoots 3 people with an assault rifle. Is given water bottles when police see him.

[Billy Hoyle]

Anecdotal.

Oh, but there are more. You just refuse to acknowledge it and would rather play “yeah well what if” in your virtue signaling contest.

Enjoy: https://twitter.com/AmySwearer/status/1461801378137919489

[#UnleashSean]

Here’s the thing…would you chase after someone who’s openly carrying an AR or any gun for that matter?  Understand, the 3 who were injured or killed were not alter boys. Rosenbaum spent 15 years in prison for child rape. He had numerous violations while incarcerated in Arizona. Huber had an assortment of felonies including holding a knife to his brother and domestic abuse, strangulation and suffocation twice.  Grosskreutz had a dui or 2 and he was carrying a gun illegally and lied about it

A dui is almost nothing. Why would you put that with the other two?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Oh, but there are more. You just refuse to acknowledge it and would rather play “yeah well what if” in your virtue signaling contest.

Enjoy: https://twitter.com/AmySwearer/status/1461801378137919489

He simply expressed an opinion.  More anecdotal stories is just more anecdotal stories.  If you are making the case that race doesn't matter when it comes to self defense, you are going to need more than a simple Twitter search.

And anyone who uses the phrase "virtue signaling" shouldn't be taken seriously.

[thomaskyle]

Its unfortunate leadership didn't send in the Guard after the first night of people being knocked out, their buildings burnt down and destroyed along with various other assaults.  If someone had thought to do that, none of this would have happened.

Instead police and the Guard were told to stand down.  Let them have space...
The Guard shut this down in an hour when called upon.