2021-22 Big East Conference Results

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Seton Hall has to cancel their game against Iona this weekend (doubheader with SJU/Pitt at MSG) and their next game at home against St. John's is in doubt. COVID.

My guess is that cancelling Iona is easy because it goes down as nothing in their record. I'd be surprised if they cancel their game against St. John's since it will count as a conference loss. Unless they really don't have 5 players not in the COVID protocol.

[rocky_warrior]

I'd be surprised if they cancel their game against St. John's since it will count as a conference loss. Unless they really don't have 5 players not in the COVID protocol.

Agreed, and even though I may have wagered that no games would be forfeited, I guess if they have 5 players but would be non-competitive with those players they may just elect to forfeit.  But I'm still guessing the SJU game will happen.

[Billy Hoyle]

Agreed, and even though I may have wagered that no games would be forfeited, I guess if they have 5 players but would be non-competitive with those players they may just elect to forfeit.  But I'm still guessing the SJU game will happen.

FYI, the Big East rule is seven scholarship players are needed to be active to play a game.

[rocky_warrior]

FYI, the Big East rule is seven scholarship players are needed to be active to play a game.

All must be scholarship?

Edit:  Also smart of SHU to get this over with before the conference season!

[MU82]

If Omicron gets bad enough, I wonder if the Big East will change its Covid-related rules.

Punishing fully vaccinated teams doesn't seem very fair.

[MuggsyB]

If Omicron gets bad enough, I wonder if the Big East will change its Covid-related rules.

Punishing fully vaccinated teams doesn't seem very fair.

If college had the same testing as the pro leagues a lot of games would be canceled.    Omicron is highly contagious but Delta is still the major problem as far as hospitalizations and deaths.  If we do not get to a point where people realize this is now endemic, and we have to adapt, we're going to never really get through it. 

Vaccines will clearly have to be tweaked pretty regularly.  Vaccinated people are getting Omicron.  That said our obsession with positive cases is silly at this point.  It tells us nothing and leads to more fear.  We still do not seem to know the zero prevalence rate but obviously a huge number of people who have gotten COVID, and its variants, are asymptomatic.  If the goal now is to thwart positive tests in sports leagues versus the rest of society it's not particularly useful.  I mean do we really want to get to a point where every person is tested or self-tests every day regardless if they feel sick or not?  Should we test our dogs and cats every day?

[The Sultan]

If college had the same testing as the pro leagues a lot of games would be canceled.    Omicron is highly contagious but Delta is still the major problem as far as hospitalizations and deaths.  If we do not get to a point where people realize this is now endemic, and we have to adapt, we're going to never really get through it. 

Vaccines will clearly have to be tweaked pretty regularly.  Vaccinated people are getting Omicron.  That said our obsession with positive cases is silly at this point.  It tells us nothing and leads to more fear.  We still do not seem to know the zero prevalence rate but obviously a huge number of people who have gotten COVID, and its variants, are asymptomatic.  If the goal now is to thwart positive tests in sports leagues versus the rest of society it's not particularly useful.  I mean do we really want to get to a point where every person is tested or self-tests every day regardless if they feel sick or not?  Should we test our dogs and cats every day?

I would agree that focusing on positives would be "silly" if it weren't for the fact that Wisconsin's hospitals have more Covid patients in them at any time since January and the weekly death tolls are rising.  Throughout this pandemic, positives have been a precursor to more bad stuff happening.  And that's not good.

And it's not endemic.  Too many people are saying that out of wishful thinking rather than actual science.

[avid1010]

I would agree that focusing on positives would be "silly" if it weren't for the fact that Wisconsin's hospitals have more Covid patients in them at any time since January and the weekly death tolls are rising.  Throughout this pandemic, positives have been a precursor to more bad stuff happening.  And that's not good.

And it's not endemic.  Too many people are saying that out of wishful thinking rather than actual science.

I think it will become an endemic for the vaccinated...which is all but 15% of adults...and children aren't heavily affected by the disease.  I'm not sure the endemic language is wishful thinking versus science.  The NY Times referred to it as an endemic in quoting lead doctors/researchers and referenced that for the vaccinated this is may not be any more concerning than the flu.

For the unvaccinated...well you can't fix stupid. 

From the NY Times:

Endemic - As Dr. Monica Gandhi and Dr. Leslie Bienen, two public health experts, wrote in a recent Times Opinion article, "America is in the slow process of accepting that Covid-19 will become endemic — meaning it will always be present in the population at varying levels."

Severity - If that continues to be true, it will mean that Omicron — like earlier variants — presents only a very small risk of serious illness to most vaccinated people. It is the kind of risk that people accept every day without reordering their lives, not so different from the chances of hospitalization or death from the flu or a car crash.

[rocky_warrior]

Gents, while I appreciated this conversation started as part of BE games potentially getting cancelled, I must request you move it to the whole board dedicated to covid.  The topic has proven to be quite polarizing and charged on the hoops board.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?board=15.0

Back to BE conference results.

[rocky_warrior]

Truth.  Been struggling with that.  They're not getting updated through the sports-reference API, and I'm trying to figure out how to force an update.   Probably a cache issue.

OK, I think I got it.  We'll find out after the Nova / Creighton game tomorrow.  It still usually takes a bit before sports-reference updates their data.

[Billy Hoyle]

Interesting news from a NYC sports reporter. It could just be smoke, but who knows with Seton Hall and Kevin Willard:

So from what I'm hearing Seton Hall has enough healthy players to play. BUT they are choosing to not play because of some Covid cases. And they will mark the game as a forfeit to #SJUBB Monday and avoid penalties (ie losing, etc). How is it fair for teams who need these games?

[fjm]

Interesting news from a NYC sports reporter. It could just be smoke, but who knows with Seton Hall and Kevin Willard:

So from what I'm hearing Seton Hall has enough healthy players to play. BUT they are choosing to not play because of some Covid cases. And they will mark the game as a forfeit to #SJUBB Monday and avoid penalties (ie losing, etc). How is it fair for teams who need these games?

Dumb by the hall.

But it does beg the question. Do you play the system and forfeit against a team like nova? Where we have a low chance of winning. It wipes a L off.

Wait. I just realized it doesn't wipe an L off. You still get an L. But I wonder if it gets put in as a 2-0 Loss.

So that looks way better in NET than a 65-52 loss.

[LAZER]

Dumb by the hall.

But it does beg the question. Do you play the system and forfeit against a team like nova? Where we have a low chance of winning. It wipes a L off.

Wait. I just realized it doesn't wipe an L off. You still get an L. But I wonder if it gets put in as a 2-0 Loss.

So that looks way better in NET than a 65-52 loss.

I'm not sure it's necessarily dumb, but if true, it's a really garbage move by them.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Interesting news from a NYC sports reporter. It could just be smoke, but who knows with Seton Hall and Kevin Willard:

So from what I'm hearing Seton Hall has enough healthy players to play. BUT they are choosing to not play because of some Covid cases. And they will mark the game as a forfeit to #SJUBB Monday and avoid penalties (ie losing, etc). How is it fair for teams who need these games?

If true, Big East needs to step in. Find some penalty for intentionally taking a forfeit when one was not needed.

[The Sultan]

How can you avoid the penalty of losing when you have to forfeit?  Should that be considered a flat out loss?

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

How can you avoid the penalty of losing when you have to forfeit?  Should that be considered a flat out loss?

Guessing the idea is that a covid forfeit would be viewed in a more positive light than losing to a lesser team because you're playing down several players. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

How can you avoid the penalty of losing when you have to forfeit?  Should that be considered a flat out loss?

Any Big East team that has to forfeit due to COVID takes a loss. I'd imagine it's marked officially as a 2-0 loss, which is fine for teams that legitimately can't field a team (7 players minimum).

Seton Hall supposedly has at least 7 players to play, meaning they don't have to forfeit. But let's say for argument that they have only three players out with COVID but those players are Jared Rhoden, Alexis Yetna, and Tyrese Samuel. Seton Hall may decide it's better to take a 2-0 loss to SJU than play them without three of their best players and possibly get blown out. Chances are the committee won't punish teams with COVID issues too harshly, but they will punish a team that gets blown out by a middle of the pack conference team. It helps Seton Hall but hurts St. John's because I doubt the committee would reward them at all for a 2-0 forfeit victory over Seton Hall, damaging their chances of making the tourney.

[The Equalizer]

Any Big East team that has to forfeit due to COVID takes a loss. I'd imagine it's marked officially as a 2-0 loss, which is fine for teams that legitimately can't field a team (7 players minimum).

Seton Hall supposedly has at least 7 players to play, meaning they don't have to forfeit. But let's say for argument that they have only three players out with COVID but those players are Jared Rhoden, Alexis Yetna, and Tyrese Samuel. Seton Hall may decide it's better to take a 2-0 loss to SJU than play them without three of their best players and possibly get blown out. Chances are the committee won't punish teams with COVID issues too harshly, but they will punish a team that gets blown out by a middle of the pack conference team. It helps Seton Hall but hurts St. John's because I doubt the committee would reward them at all for a 2-0 forfeit victory over Seton Hall, damaging their chances of making the tourney.

It damages their chances of making the tourney only if you assume they would have won that game and needed that win as part of their body of work.  If you assume they would have lost, it probably helps them marginally (slightly better W/L percentage, lack of a loss in the NET, slightly better BEt seed, etc.).

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It damages their chances of making the tourney only if you assume they would have won that game and needed that win as part of their body of work.  If you assume they would have lost, it probably helps them marginally (slightly better W/L percentage, lack of a loss in the NET, slightly better BEt seed, etc.).

Sure...but the only time that I expect a team to forfeit when they don't need to, is when they expect that they are going to get blown out because they are missing key players.

[fjm]

Any Big East team that has to forfeit due to COVID takes a loss. I'd imagine it's marked officially as a 2-0 loss, which is fine for teams that legitimately can't field a team (7 players minimum).

Seton Hall supposedly has at least 7 players to play, meaning they don't have to forfeit. But let's say for argument that they have only three players out with COVID but those players are Jared Rhoden, Alexis Yetna, and Tyrese Samuel. Seton Hall may decide it's better to take a 2-0 loss to SJU than play them without three of their best players and possibly get blown out. Chances are the committee won't punish teams with COVID issues too harshly, but they will punish a team that gets blown out by a middle of the pack conference team. It helps Seton Hall but hurts St. John's because I doubt the committee would reward them at all for a 2-0 forfeit victory over Seton Hall, damaging their chances of making the tourney.

That crap is so fuked.

BEast needs to address that. Otherwise Shaka is silly to not take a covid loss to nova and at UConn.

[The Sultan]

I am sure Fox isn't pleased that two programs in the NYC area won't be playing a scheduled game.  The BE should step in to provide stricter guidelines.

[fjm]

—As outlined in Big East policy, the 16th-ranked Pirates (9-1) will suffer a forfeit loss and St. John's gains a forfeit win that will impact the conference standings and Big East Tournament seeding only. For NCAA purposes, the result for both Seton Hall and St. John's will be "no contests," meaning it will not appear on either program's overall record, nor will it impact the NET ranking or NCAA Tournament consideration  — beyond the intangible impact of missed opportunities. 

[rocky_warrior]

I am sure Fox isn't pleased that two programs in the NYC area won't be playing a scheduled game.  The BE should step in to provide stricter guidelines.

I don't think it's officially cancelled yet. Just Billy's info?  Or did I miss something?

Edit: Oh just found this.  Also "sources", no BE statement yet:
https://www.app.com/story/sports/college/2021/12/17/seton-hall-basketballs-big-east-opener-vs-st-johns-cancelled-due-covid/8942337002/

[Uncle Rico]

I don't think it's officially cancelled yet. Just Billy's info?  Or did I miss something?

Jerry Carino reported it as cancelled

[rocky_warrior]

https://twitter.com/NYPost_Brazille/status/1471933391834599428

Zach Braziller
@NYPost_Brazille
An official announcement from the Big East is coming later today on St. John's-Seton Hall forfeit. Source said nothing has been decided on Thursday's DePaul-Seton Hall game. Both programs have COVID-19 issues. #sjubb #shbb #bigeasthoops