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Author Topic: Athletic article on MU  (Read 2422 times)

rocky_warrior

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2021, 09:40:00 PM »
Everyone would like to believe Marquette hired the next Jay Wright every time they hire a coach. 

I hope Shaka is Marquette's Jay Wright.  I have many doubts.  But I hope he's given a chance, and his guys win a lot.

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2021, 09:45:13 PM »

You could have just said I'm going to shift the goalpost from:

Of course, those "culture guys" Wright recruited after his supposed awakening still included many equally highly-rated players.

to

"Wright still occasionally recruits 5-stars" (5 in the past 12 years after recruiting 3 in a single class).

It would have saved a lot of time.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2021, 10:25:00 PM »
Everyone would like to believe Marquette hired the next Jay Wright every time they hire a coach. 

I hope Shaka is Marquette's Jay Wright.  I have many doubts.  But I hope he's given a chance, and his guys win a lot.

Many of us hope that Shaka is not MU's next Wojo.

rocky_warrior

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2021, 10:28:02 PM »
Many of us hope that Shaka is not MU's next Wojo.

I think more Crean with a better personality.  Which may be enough...

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2021, 11:52:50 PM »
You could have just said I'm going to shift the goalpost from:

to

"Wright still occasionally recruits 5-stars" (5 in the past 12 years after recruiting 3 in a single class).

It would have saved a lot of time.

Straight to the source...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vuhoops.com/platform/amp/villanova-basketball/2019/4/3/18293214/what-if-wednesday-what-if-jay-wright-never-changed-his-recruiting-style-villanova-basketball

MU82

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2021, 11:54:57 PM »
I second other posters who said that this was an outstanding article and also that The Athletic is well worth the price. Even the regular price is worth it; the deal they offer every year is a steal.

As for what was in the article, this quote from Shaka jumped out at me:

“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

That, along with Shaka pointing out his “All culture for the first two years” line in the journal he kept is a coach being very realistic while also intelligently covering his butt.

If Marquette makes the NCAAs this season, Shaka will have outperformed expectations, including his own. If the first couple of years don't live up to the lofty expectations of some fans (including some Scoopers), Shaka can say, "I told you it wasn't a quick fix. Stick with us. We're getting better."

I also thought Elliott was insightful and sounded incredibly mature. I'm thinking he and Morsell will be the captains of our 2021-22 squad.
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

4everwarriors

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2021, 04:00:21 AM »
Crean sucks
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

Daniel

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2021, 07:35:44 AM »
Around black Friday / Cyber Monday you can pick up an annual subscription for like $10-20.   It's well worth it.

Ty!

GOO

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2021, 07:51:04 AM »
For those of us without a subscription, can we get a few bullet points or a short summary of the article. Any tidbits on particular players or more big picture?

The Lens

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2021, 10:00:26 AM »
For those of us without a subscription, can we get a few bullet points or a short summary of the article. Any tidbits on particular players or more big picture?

I would advise against anyone doing this b/c you're enabling GOO to live without the best sports content on earth.  Honestly, the Athletic is the last subscription I would give up.  Netflix, Amazon Prime, Disney+ whatever; The Athletic is the best.  Get it, now.   
The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car    ---- Dr. Blackheart

Galway Eagle

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2021, 10:09:27 AM »
I would advise against anyone doing this b/c you're enabling GOO to live without the best sports content on earth.  Honestly, the Athletic is the last subscription I would give up.  Netflix, Amazon Prime, Disney+ whatever; The Athletic is the best.  Get it, now.

They have zero GAA coverage, and bad boxing coverage, and I can't remember the quality of the rugby coverage but I don't recall being impressed.

Maybe the best pertaining to American sports but boy is this a miss guided statement.
Maigh Eo for Sam

The Lens

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2021, 10:20:31 AM »
They have zero GAA coverage, and bad boxing coverage, and I can't remember the quality of the rugby coverage but I don't recall being impressed.

Maybe the best pertaining to American sports but boy is this a miss guided statement.

So what individual site is better? 
The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car    ---- Dr. Blackheart

Galway Eagle

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2021, 10:23:56 AM »
So what individual site is better?

Depends on your sporting interests.
Maigh Eo for Sam

JakeBarnes

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2021, 10:32:01 AM »
They have zero GAA coverage, and bad boxing coverage, and I can't remember the quality of the rugby coverage but I don't recall being impressed.

Maybe the best pertaining to American sports but boy is this a miss guided statement.

Boxing has been bad at covering itself for a while now. I'd agree that rugby is a blind spot for sure along with F1.

That said, for the sports most people care about in the US, The Athletic is where all the good SI and good local paper writing went. Really great in-depth coverage for the sports they focus on.
Assume what I say should be in teal if it doesn't pass the smell test for you.


Galway Eagle

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2021, 10:41:08 AM »
Boxing has been bad at covering itself for a while now. I'd agree that rugby is a blind spot for sure along with F1.

That said, for the sports most people care about in the US, The Athletic is where all the good SI and good local paper writing went. Really great in-depth coverage for the sports they focus on.

100% I just enjoy calling people out when they think the entire world is waiting on the edge of their seats to follow US sports. The Athletic is definitely the gold standard for any US sports fan.

Bad left hook is solid at boxing coverage but overall I agree with you there about bad at covering itself.
Maigh Eo for Sam

The Lens

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2021, 11:00:41 AM »
100% I just enjoy calling people out when they think the entire world is waiting on the edge of their seats to follow US sports. The Athletic is definitely the gold standard for any US sports fan.

Bad left hook is solid at boxing coverage but overall I agree with you there about bad at covering itself.

Is there a single better sports publication on Earth?  I'm not saying it doesn't have blind spots, I'm just saying it has fewer than others. 
The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car    ---- Dr. Blackheart

The Equalizer

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2021, 11:11:37 AM »


(5 in the past 12 years after recruiting 3 in a single class).

I don't think "5 in 12" accurately reflects Wright's recruiting (and subsequent performance) following that disastrous 2009 class.  Those five weren't spread out over twelve years. They were concentrated in one five year period:

2010 to 2014:  Recruited zero five-stars. Only 4 NCAA bids in the subsequent years:  two first-round losses, two first-round wins.
2015 to 2019:  Recruited five five-stars. 5 NCAA bids, two National Championships, and first-round wins in the other three years.

Maybe it was true that Wright avoided five-stars for a while after getting burned in 2009, but fans weren't happy with the results. So starting in 2015 he went back to the five-star well (perhaps being a bit more selective) and started winning again.

But the record is clear--Wright did not succeed without five-star players on his roster.

You could have just said I'm going to shift the goalpost from:

to

"Wright still occasionally recruits 5-stars" (5 in the past 12 years after recruiting 3 in a single class).

It would have saved a lot of time.

I don't think the point was about Wright recruiting three five-stars in a single class. 

And after 2009, Wright didn't "occasionally" land a five-star player over a 12 year period.  He stopped completely for five years, didn't win, then got aggressive again, and started to win again.

The narrative that Wright only started to win after he stopped recruiting five-stars is a bust.

muwarrior69

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #42 on: October 14, 2021, 11:38:50 AM »
Not equally high-rated. The class that supposedly got Wright into trouble was his 2009 class where he picked up 3 5-star recruits and a top 65 4-star for the #4 rated class in the country (all numbers from 247).

From 2010 to 2017, Wright recruited 2 five stars (one in 2015 and one in 2016) and didn't have a single class ranked higher than #22 in the country.

In 2018, he landed his first top 10 (#9) class since 2009. The results? Top recruit Jahvon Quinerley was quickly bounced. Second highest rated recruit Cole Swider was a bench player who eventually transferred. Third highest rated recruit Brandon Slater has been a perpetual bench player. Only the lowest rated recruit, Saddiq Bey, ranked #137, ended up being a success (and a massive one).

2019 was his highest ranked year since 2009 (#5). Since then he's turned in a #107 ranked class in 2020 and a #22 ranked class in 2021.

If you look back at the best Nova players during this stretch, here are some of their rankings:
#49 Daniel Ochefu
#51 James Bell
#57 Ryan Arcidiacono
#57 Justin Moore
#60 Jayvaughn Pinkston
#75 Phil Booth
#76 Kris Jenkins
#79 Josh Hart
#81 Mikal Bridges
#124 Donte DiVincenzo
#137 Saddiq Bey
#200 Collin Gillespie
#274 Darrun Hilliard

No one said Wright stopped bringing in talented players. But he tried the Duke/Kentucky approach of bringing in a bunch of 5-star freshmen and it didn't work. He adjusted and started recruiting guys who were primarily ranked in the 50s or lower with occasional low-level 5-stars sprinkled in. Part of the key is bringing in players who don't expect to go pro after a year and are committed for multiple seasons.

Like Wright, he's not going after the 5-stars the way he used to at Texas. He's going after guys who will likely be in the program for multiple years and fit the culture he's trying build. And yes, he's also trying to recruit the most talented players who fit that mold. I'd also point out that most of the players the you list above were a lot lower ranked when Shaka started pursuing them. We've also seen him offer a lot of guys that are ranked nowhere near the top 100 because they are seemingly a fit for what he wants to do.

I'll be more than happy if Shaka can get his guys to play the way Buzz got his guys to play for MU.

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #43 on: October 14, 2021, 02:15:12 PM »
2015 to 2019:  Recruited five five-stars. 5 NCAA bids, two National Championships, and first-round wins in the other three years.

If you want to break down that period, fine but be honest about it. Here's a more accurate picture:

2015 to 2017: Recruited two five stars. 3 NCAA bids, two National Championship, and one first-round win.

Three of the 5 stars came after the two national championships. And both of those 5-stars were multi-year guys. And while Brunson was the star of the second championship (with #81 Mikal Bridges as a very close co-star), Brunson was the 4th or 5th starter on the first championship team. That team was lead by #79 Josh Hart, #76 Kris Jenkins, #57 Ryan Arcidiacono, and #49 Daniel Ochefu.

The narrative that Wright only started to win after he stopped recruiting five-stars is a bust.

That's what you have decided the narrative is. No one has ever said that he only started to win after stopped recruiting 5-stars. What people have said is that started winning by focusing on culture instead of rankings. In 2009, he didn't focus culture and focused on accumulating as many highly ranked players as possible. It was a disaster. Since then, he has focused on culture again and yes trying to get as talented of players as possible who fits his culture. You'll notice that he hasn't recruited a single one and done player during that stretch. It's all guys who commit for multiple seasons. Like Dr. B pointed out, this is from the man himself: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vuhoops.com/platform/amp/villanova-basketball/2019/4/3/18293214/what-if-wednesday-what-if-jay-wright-never-changed-his-recruiting-style-villanova-basketball
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Galway Eagle

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #44 on: October 14, 2021, 02:40:06 PM »
Is there a single better sports publication on Earth?  I'm not saying it doesn't have blind spots, I'm just saying it has fewer than others.

I'd say Sky Sports has the least blind spots, but if your focus is American sports (which they do cover) you're going to focus much more on those blind spots and less on the coverage that is better than the Athletic. It's why I said that it depends on what sports you're interested in.
Maigh Eo for Sam

Uncle Rico

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #45 on: October 14, 2021, 02:41:32 PM »
I'd say Sky Sports has the least blind spots, but if your focus is American sports (which they do cover) you're going to focus much more on those blind spots and less on the coverage that is better than the Athletic. It's why I said that it depends on what sports you're interested in.

The Athletic needs an investigative arm.  A lot, I mean a lot, is fluff. 
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

MU82

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #46 on: October 14, 2021, 03:03:52 PM »
The Athletic needs an investigative arm.  A lot, I mean a lot, is fluff.

That would be a welcome (but expensive) addition.

I don't know if I'd use "fluff" for what they do, though.

The Panthers reporter, for example, breaks quite a bit of news. He doesn't sugarcoat poor play or coaching, and I consider him to be quite objective.
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

Spotcheck Billy

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Re: Athletic article on MU
« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2021, 04:01:20 PM »
I subscribed for 1 year a few years ago and never renewed. While there was occasionally articles that interested me there really were not very many IMO.

 

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