collapse

* Resources


UDM 4

* 2020-2021 SOTG Tally


2020-21 Season SoG Tally
Cain3
Carton3
Garcia3
Lewis2
John1
McEwen1

'19-20
'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

* Recent Posts

Brian Hamilton / The Athletic Article on MU by cheebs09
[Today at 12:47:26 PM]


NM by Newsdreams
[Today at 12:44:57 PM]


The Shaka Era is happening! by Daniel
[Today at 12:22:02 PM]


Big East 2021-2022 Season Thread by Billy Hoyle
[Today at 11:58:38 AM]


[Cracked Sidewalks] West Virginia Preview by Goose
[Today at 11:53:55 AM]


Marquette/BC by Goose
[Today at 11:23:22 AM]


Happy Birthday MUScoop! by 4everwarriors
[Today at 10:53:37 AM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: Haunted Hoops scrimmage Oct. 31

Marquette
Marquette

Haunted Hoops

Date/Time: Oct 31, 2021, 9:00am
TV: NA
Schedule for 2020-21
13-14

Author Topic: Our 5 yr plan?  (Read 5477 times)

rocky_warrior

  • Global Moderator
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7636
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #50 on: August 25, 2021, 12:55:15 AM »
Year 1:  win
Year 2: win more
Year 3:  keep on winning
Year 4:  still lots of winning
Year 5:  still not tired of winning

How many years until we win every day?

WarriorFan

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1380
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2021, 09:36:22 AM »
Year 1:  Better than Wojo
Year 2:  Better than KO
Year 3:  Better than Crean
Year 4:  Better than Al
Year 5:  Shaka retires having won his last game.  Takes a leadership position in the Jordan brand.  Dabbles with commentating.
"The meaning of life isn't gnashing our bicuspids over what comes after death but tasting the tiny moments that come before it."

warriorchick

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7334
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #52 on: September 07, 2021, 07:10:34 PM »
MU Alum Marcus Lemonis getting in on the action:

https://twitter.com/marcuslemonis/status/1435393819302846467
Have some patience, FFS.

The Equalizer

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1307
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #53 on: September 08, 2021, 10:28:43 AM »
MU Alum Marcus Lemonis getting in on the action:

https://twitter.com/marcuslemonis/status/1435393819302846467

Free T-shirt is nice, but it would be nicer to see MU players featured as the "Official College Basketball Backcourt of Camping World" or "Gander Outdoor's CBB Shooting Specialists."

Frenns Liquor Depot

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2626
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #54 on: September 08, 2021, 10:56:38 AM »
How many years until we win every day?

Maybe you put your finger on the problem.  Should have been "win every GAME day".

We were just too focused on winning the off days.

Big Papi

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1973
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #55 on: September 08, 2021, 01:58:44 PM »
I think our 5 year plan is the same plan from the last 5 years.  Mediocrity with some success here and there.

I don't think the Shaka tenure has started off great.  I hope I am wrong on this but with all the turnover everywhere, I expected a more blended roster with a higher talent level that would allow us to compete for a NCAA tourny bid this year. 

In this day and age, you need to win day 1.  Heads get turned way too easily so trying to build for 2, 3 years down the line with a young group of players is hard to do.  My guess is easily a 50% current roster shake out by end of year 2 and that 50% doesn't include the 2 grad players.  Its a tough gig but you need to win and win right away. 

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 16837
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #56 on: September 08, 2021, 03:38:32 PM »
I think our 5 year plan is the same plan from the last 5 years.  Mediocrity with some success here and there.

I don't think the Shaka tenure has started off great.  I hope I am wrong on this but with all the turnover everywhere, I expected a more blended roster with a higher talent level that would allow us to compete for a NCAA tourny bid this year. 

In this day and age, you need to win day 1.  Heads get turned way too easily so trying to build for 2, 3 years down the line with a young group of players is hard to do.  My guess is easily a 50% current roster shake out by end of year 2 and that 50% doesn't include the 2 grad players.  Its a tough gig but you need to win and win right away.

Several Scoopers think we will do just that. I hope they're right!
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

The Equalizer

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1307
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #57 on: September 08, 2021, 03:59:45 PM »
I think our 5 year plan is the same plan from the last 5 years.  Mediocrity with some success here and there.

I don't think the Shaka tenure has started off great.  I hope I am wrong on this but with all the turnover everywhere, I expected a more blended roster with a higher talent level that would allow us to compete for a NCAA tourny bid this year. 

In this day and age, you need to win day 1.  Heads get turned way too easily so trying to build for 2, 3 years down the line with a young group of players is hard to do.  My guess is easily a 50% current roster shake out by end of year 2 and that 50% doesn't include the 2 grad players.  Its a tough gig but you need to win and win right away.

The question comes down to how you define mediocrity.

I don't think we've recruited at a high enough level to break into the top tier in the Big East, but  I think we have recruited well enough to rise to the top of the 2nd tier--and that includes this coming season.  I think what Shaka has brought in for this year compares favorably to the current rosters of DePaul, Butler, Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns, and Georgetown, and falls short of Villanova, UConn, Xavier & Creighton.

Is 4th or 5th in the Big East mediocre?  Most years, this type of performance would make the NCAA tournament--maybe on the wrong side of the bubble in some years.

The next question is what would it take to break into that top tier. I think a lot of people are pinning their hopes on Shaka finding "under-the-radar" players who will develop over time to become stars and compete for the Big East title.   

Which may happen--but for that strategy to work requires four things:  a) Jay Wright suddenly lose his coaching mojo, b) the roster of highly ranked recruits Hurley is building consistently underperforms their ranking, c) McDermott can't coach high-rated talent now that he has some, and d) the upgrade in Xavier's talent over the last year or two doesn't rise to the level needed to overcome the fact they're coached by Travis Steele.

All said, I think we're solid middle-of-the-pack team going forward.



 


bilsu

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8165
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #58 on: September 08, 2021, 04:32:14 PM »
Shaka's losses the last 6 years.
2021  8   Shorten season with 3 players drafted in 2021 NBA draft.
2020 12
2019 16
2018 15
2017 22
2016 13
I expect a lot of complaining on MUscoop this year.

dad's couch

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #59 on: September 08, 2021, 05:00:26 PM »
Shaka's losses the last 6 years.
2021  8   Shorten season with 3 players drafted in 2021 NBA draft.
2020 12
2019 16
2018 15
2017 22
2016 13
I expect a lot of complaining on MUscoop this year.

But he wasn't able to establish the culture like he will here.

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 17420
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #60 on: September 08, 2021, 05:05:21 PM »
I expect a lot of complaining on Scoop every year.   Complained about Crean, complained about Buzz, complained about Wojo.  Why should Coach Smart be any different?
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Newsdreams

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5889
  • Goal - Win BE
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #61 on: September 08, 2021, 05:59:20 PM »
I expect a lot of complaining on Scoop every year.   Complained about Crean, complained about Buzz, complained about Wojo.  Why should Coach Smart be any different?
#ComplainEveryDay

Dr. Blackheart

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9875
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #62 on: September 08, 2021, 07:26:08 PM »
#ComplainEveryDay

Our NCAA chances begun and ended with the TBT scrimmage loss.

4everwarriors

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 14916
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #63 on: September 08, 2021, 07:36:43 PM »
Crean sucks
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

Newsdreams

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5889
  • Goal - Win BE
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #64 on: September 08, 2021, 07:53:15 PM »
Our NCAA chances begun and ended with the TBT scrimmage loss.

Cost us at least 3 seeds

BLM

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 14468
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #65 on: September 08, 2021, 09:39:23 PM »
Cost us at least 3 seeds

Losing a home game by 30 = no bueno. Especially against a non Tourney team. Quad 3 loss.
Black Lives Matter

bilsu

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8165
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #66 on: September 09, 2021, 12:11:52 AM »
The question comes down to how you define mediocrity.

I don't think we've recruited at a high enough level to break into the top tier in the Big East, but  I think we have recruited well enough to rise to the top of the 2nd tier--and that includes this coming season.  I think what Shaka has brought in for this year compares favorably to the current rosters of DePaul, Butler, Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns, and Georgetown, and falls short of Villanova, UConn, Xavier & Creighton.

Is 4th or 5th in the Big East mediocre?  Most years, this type of performance would make the NCAA tournament--maybe on the wrong side of the bubble in some years.

The next question is what would it take to break into that top tier. I think a lot of people are pinning their hopes on Shaka finding "under-the-radar" players who will develop over time to become stars and compete for the Big East title.   

Which may happen--but for that strategy to work requires four things:  a) Jay Wright suddenly lose his coaching mojo, b) the roster of highly ranked recruits Hurley is building consistently underperforms their ranking, c) McDermott can't coach high-rated talent now that he has some, and d) the upgrade in Xavier's talent over the last year or two doesn't rise to the level needed to overcome the fact they're coached by Travis Steele.

All said, I think we're solid middle-of-the-pack team going forward.
I do not think there is enough seasoned talent to win this year. I would really like this team, if all the freshmen (including the 2nd year freshmen) stayed four years. However, with free transferring now allowed, they are not going to stay together.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 16837
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #67 on: September 09, 2021, 09:53:36 PM »
I do not think there is enough seasoned talent to win this year. I would really like this team, if all the freshmen (including the 2nd year freshmen) stayed four years. However, with free transferring now allowed, they are not going to stay together.

This will be a good test of the "Shaka, the pied piper" narrative many have espoused.

More than ever, coaches will have to "re-recruit" their own players every year. And ultimately, for many programs -- especially those not in the blueblood and near-blueblood realm -- their success or failure very well could depend on their coaches' success or failure at re-recruiting their own players.
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

swoopem

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 983
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #68 on: September 10, 2021, 07:19:34 AM »
I think most of the Shaka excitement is about having an actual system and knowing what to expect game in, game out. Once that’s established the recruiting will take care of itself

I fully expect to surprise people this year and make the tournament. In the words of Robert Hunter “this train’s got to run today” and once we get going we ain’t stopping
Bradley Center, the best bar in Milwaukee

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 16837
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #69 on: September 10, 2021, 07:57:05 AM »
I think most of the Shaka excitement is about having an actual system and knowing what to expect game in, game out. Once that’s established the recruiting will take care of itself

I fully expect to surprise people this year and make the tournament. In the words of Robert Hunter “this train’s got to run today” and once we get going we ain’t stopping

Love the optimism. Hope you're right!
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

Scoop Snoop

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 486
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #70 on: September 10, 2021, 10:04:41 AM »
I think most of the Shaka excitement is about having an actual system and knowing what to expect game in, game out. Once that’s established the recruiting will take care of itself

I fully expect to surprise people this year and make the tournament. In the words of Robert Hunter “this train’s got to run today” and once we get going we ain’t stopping

Agree with the first paragraph. While I hope your optimism in your second paragraph is validated, I think too many "ifs" have to play out in our favor. IF Justin has a breakout year, Greg has a great year, Kolek makes the transition to the BE with stats similar to his last season and at least one of our freshman surprises us with hot shooting, sure- we look really good. More likely Shaka will have to give enough PT to the freshman to see what they can do and that alone may result in a disappointing season. Leave them on the bench too often and long to chalk up more W's and the best ones will transfer.

While this thread is about a 5 year plan, I think in terms of a two year plan that is roughly analogous to a two act play. The first act/season, the conflicts and problems are laid out. They are resolved in the second act in a two act play but this is where the analogy becomes shaky. At the end of season two, we will have a fairly good idea of where we stand in the BE and nationally but there will still be unanswered questions.
"Your words don't mean anything to me. Argument doesn't have any effect on me."
Doc Burton: "I wasn't arguing. I was asking for information. All of you people get angry when you're asked a question."
                                           
                Excerpt from a Steinbeck novel.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 16837
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #71 on: September 10, 2021, 09:46:53 PM »
Agree with the first paragraph. While I hope your optimism in your second paragraph is validated, I think too many "ifs" have to play out in our favor. IF Justin has a breakout year, Greg has a great year, Kolek makes the transition to the BE with stats similar to his last season and at least one of our freshman surprises us with hot shooting, sure- we look really good. More likely Shaka will have to give enough PT to the freshman to see what they can do and that alone may result in a disappointing season. Leave them on the bench too often and long to chalk up more W's and the best ones will transfer.

While this thread is about a 5 year plan, I think in terms of a two year plan that is roughly analogous to a two act play. The first act/season, the conflicts and problems are laid out. They are resolved in the second act in a two act play but this is where the analogy becomes shaky. At the end of season two, we will have a fairly good idea of where we stand in the BE and nationally but there will still be unanswered questions.

Very well-reasoned post.
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

THRILLHO

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 391
    • twitter feed
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #72 on: September 10, 2021, 11:33:43 PM »
Very well-reasoned post.
Except why would the best ones transfer? They would probably be playing? The latest bloomers would potentially transfer before being fully developed, which is unfortunate, but it would be because they weren't yet able to beat out others for playing time.

Scoop Snoop

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 486
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #73 on: September 11, 2021, 08:22:20 AM »
Except why would the best ones transfer? They would probably be playing? The latest bloomers would potentially transfer before being fully developed, which is unfortunate, but it would be because they weren't yet able to beat out others for playing time.

I did not write "the best ones (will) transfer". My point was that Shaka is almost certainly going to give a fair amount of PT to the freshmen even though that will likely increase the possibility of losing some games in which minimizing their PT might result in a W. I think that by bringing in 5 freshmen Shaka is "saying" (de facto) that's part of his long range plan. I also think that he may persuade one of them to redshirt. Five freshmen is a tall order.
"Your words don't mean anything to me. Argument doesn't have any effect on me."
Doc Burton: "I wasn't arguing. I was asking for information. All of you people get angry when you're asked a question."
                                           
                Excerpt from a Steinbeck novel.

Newsdreams

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5889
  • Goal - Win BE
Re: Our 5 yr plan?
« Reply #74 on: September 11, 2021, 08:23:59 AM »
Except why would the best ones transfer? They would probably be playing? The latest bloomers would potentially transfer before being fully developed, which is unfortunate, but it would be because they weren't yet able to beat out others for playing time.
Some might go to a blue blood that has a chance for a run to a NC. Not having to seat a year gives the transfer knowledge of the team he will be playing with instead of waiting two years not knowing who is coming and who is leaving.

 

feedback