2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs

[MU82]

Thank you for the reply. I did think of that, but Lebron's first couple years in the league he actually rated as an average to below average defender (big jump to a significantly above average defender in year 4).

Compared to league averages, Doncic rates as an average, to slightly above average defender. So compared to league averages, with the exception of year 4 they are comparable.

But both by the eye test and the stats, Lebron was the better defender.

What I was more confused by was the offensive end. Where Doncic is the clearly better player for the first 4 years from a regular statistics standpoint. But for advanced stats like Offensive Win Shares, Lebron is head and shoulder statistically higher, which doesn't seem to make sense.

As an example:

In Lebron's 3rd year he averaged 26.5 ppg, 6 rpg, and 5.6 apg, TS%=56.8%: OWS=12.0
In Doncic's 3rd year he averaged : 27.7 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 8.6 apg, TS%=58.7%: but OWS=5.1

I was looking at these because I was curious how many players have been so successful from a statistics standpoint at such a young age (they both started at 19 years old. So did Durant but his apg numbers are decidedly lower). My intuition based on the raw stats was that Doncic's overall advanced stats would be higher than Hebron's, but they are drastically lower.

I'm not well versed in the advanced stats, and know many on here are so was wondering what leads to the discrepancy.

I admit it's the eye test for me when talking about defense. LeBron didn't always play lock-down D on every play when he was younger, but he was capable of doing it, and he did just that in some big situations. I don't recall Doncic actually stopping anybody very often, but maybe he has.

As for what the advanced stats say vs. the regular stats on offense, I guess it doesn't matter all that much to me. LeBron was a hell of a player early in his career -- some of his best work was leading a mediocre-at-best Cleveland team to the 2007 NBA Finals in his 4th year -- and he became an all-time great in the years that followed. Doncic has been a hell of a player early in his career, and I'm excited to see how much better he can get and how long he can stay great.

Maybe 82 can link last night's events back to the abortion ruling and liven up the thread. Sadly, his last contribution on the topic is in a locked thread after 14 posts.

Doc Dribble "livened up" that thread by politicizing it in the very second post, but you already knew that. Thanks for agreeing to stick to the NBA in this thread from now on.

[Goose]

82

I try to stay within the topic and fully agree this should be an NBA thread.

[brewcity77]

Agreed. I just don't think that he's the difference to be able to say Bucks win this in 5.

It's not a staggering difference. They led in the fourth quarter of game 4 at home. Hold on there and the Bucks win in 5.

[MU82]

Even with Middleton still out, I just have the feeling the Bucks are gonna win today. Giannis will be great, as always, Holiday is gonna play really well, and a couple of the role players will step up big.

Now watch the effen Celtics win by 30. If so, I apologize in advance!

[MuggsyB]

Even with Middleton still out, I just have the feeling the Bucks are gonna win today. Giannis will be great, as always, Holiday is gonna play really well, and a couple of the role players will step up big.

Now watch the effen Celtics win by 30. If so, I apologize in advance!

Holiday is due to have a big game?  Portis?  Or Giannis may need 50.  The shooting of the Bucks at Fiserv has been an enigma all playoffs.

[MUfan12]

The Bucks look like a team that has played a lot of basketball over the past 18 months.

Hate to say it, but Celtics by double digits today.

[MuggsyB]

The Bucks look like a team that has played a lot of basketball over the past 18 months.

Hate to say it, but Celtics by double digits today.

They look like the better team.  They certainly have more weapons and are better defensively.  This could be one of those games where the Bucks need an unsung hero like Horford was for the C's in Game 4.  Is it conceivable Allen can make a few shots?

[Skatastrophy]

The Bucks look like a team that has played a lot of basketball over the past 18 months.

Hate to say it, but Celtics by double digits today.

That happened to the Heat last year in the playoffs. Making a deep run, especially with a short offseason, take a physical toll. Little injuries start adding up.

[MuggsyB]

Pretty good 1st Q aside from the unnecessary O-foul from Portis and the fact that he couldn't secure a D-reb.  CATCH THE BALL.

[cheebs09]

Pretty good 1st Q aside from the unnecessary O-foul from Portis and the fact that he couldn't secure a D-reb.  CATCH THE BALL.

I thought he got shoved in the back on that rebound.

Brook is coming up big.

[MuggsyB]

Allen continues to miss wide open looks.

[MuggsyB]

Bucks with like 5 fouls in 2 mins.


No words can describe Grayson Allen's misses.

[MuggsyB]

3pt shooting is the big issue right now.

[MuggsyB]

Giannis has to avoid that crap. 

[MuggsyB]

George Hill's contributions while he was on the floor?

[MuggsyB]

Freaking brutal.

[MuggsyB]

Bucks 3-19 from distance isn't gonna get it done.  And that last sequence really hurts.

[MU82]

Really stoopid at the end of the half. Three free points for Boston.

Still, in decent position. Close game despite shooting woes, and Tatum has 3 fouls. Start hitting a few shots, and the Bucks can still will this one.

[MuggsyB]

Really stoopid at the end of the half. Three free points for Boston.

Still, in decent position. Close game despite shooting woes, and Tatum has 3 fouls. Start hitting a few shots, and the Bucks can still will this one.

It was also Giannis' 2nd foul abd both of his fouls were cheap and avoidable.

[MuggsyB]

Problems.

[MuggsyB]

No foul on Tatum there?

[MUfan12]

Can't continually get in a 30 point hole from three in the modern NBA. Year after year they shoot like ass in the playoffs.

Obviously not having Khris is huge, but all their "shooters" are 0-11 from three.

[The Sultan]

That Allen contract is going to make it difficult to do much this off season. My guess is this is the team they are rolling with the next couple of seasons. 

[MuggsyB]

Can't continually get in a 30 point hole from three in the modern NBA. Year after year they shoot like ass in the playoffs.

Obviously not having Khris is huge, but all their "shooters" are 0-11 from three.

Exactly right. 

[brewcity77]

This Boston team is just so unlikeable. Starts with Smart, but I've never seen flopping and whining so ingrained in a team culture.