2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs

[forgetful]

How on the world wasn't that a foul on Tatum? 

Curry has to get some help.

The game is officiated differently for Curry.

[PGsHeroes32]

Warriors like they usually do, won the 3rd.

But not sure they won it by enough.

[MuggsyB]

I'm not sure Kerr can afford to sit Curry at all in the 4th.   Klay has to give them something to close this game. 

[MU82]

Entertaining game.

[MuggsyB]

That was sweet.  I've been waiting for Cutry to go to the floater.  Can they slam the door and close this out?

[MU82]

That was sweet.  I've been waiting for Cutry to go to the floater.  Can they slam the door and close this out?

It was sweet. Looney set about 3 moving screens on that possession, but the refs ain't calling any of those.

[MuggsyB]

It was sweet. Looney set about 3 moving screens on that possession, but the refs ain't calling any of those.

You're right.  The moving screens have not been called all series.

[MuggsyB]

Uhhh...BAM!  Curry is honestly beyond comprehension. 

[MU82]

Good challenge

[PGsHeroes32]

C's wilted late.

The Warriors did not.

[MU82]

Another Finals dud for Draymond. Good on Kerr for benching Green for long stretches.

[MuggsyB]

I still think the Celtics are better but because they kick the ball away anything can happen.  If somehow GSW pulls this off where do you put Curry historically? 

[MU82]

I still think the Celtics are better but because they kick the ball away anything can happen.  If somehow GSW pulls this off where do you put Curry historically?

I already put him among all-time greats. Where he ranks among those greats I'd have to think about.

[MuggsyB]

I already put him among all-time greats. Where he ranks among those greats I'd have to think about.

I think we may have to consider slotting him in thr top 10 ever and ahead of some big names.

[wadesworld]

Wiggins is why I wish the Bucks could trade for Harrison Barnes. Long wing who's always been in a bad situation but is probably a decent amount better than he gets thought of if put in a better situation.

[The Sultan]

I think we may have to consider slotting him in thr top 10 ever and ahead of some big names.

Oh he is clearly top 10.  The greatest shooter from distance the game has ever seen and is symbolic of how the game has been revolutionized over the last decade.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Wiggins is why I wish the Bucks could trade for Harrison Barnes. Long wing who's always been in a bad situation but is probably a decent amount better than he gets thought of if put in a better situation.

Barnes played for the Warriors for 4 years.

[MuggsyB]

Oh he is clearly top 10.  The greatest shooter from distance the game has ever seen and is symbolic of how the game has been revolutionized over the last decade.

If Golden State finds a way to pull this off you really have to ask how many players are better than Curry?  And he's always been way more than a shooter.  It may not be irrational to argue we're watching a top 5 player ever despite his physical limitations at his height and weight. 

I can't put him ahead of Jordan or Lebron.  Especially Jordan because he had no weaknesses and would have extended his range in this era.  But honestly after those two?  I'm not so sure he's isn't in the 3-5 range as there are a number of things he does that can't be measured statistically. 

I get Klay isn't Klay anymore and Green is also not the same player, but do we really know how good these guys would have been without Curry on the floor?  The space he creates can't be overlooked.   I'm not saying Thompson in particular wouldn't have been great without Curry, but Steph is near the top of the list of making guys around him better.  So when Udoka blitzes Curry and Thompson goes off in Game 5 no one should be surprised. 

Curry is also better defensively than he gets credit for and has always been an outstanding teammate.  The same cannot be said for many of the games greatest players.  Regardless of what happens the rest of this series I don't  think it's crazy to slot him ahead of Magic, Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Russell, Wilt, and Hakeem.  I'm comfortable if the experts have him in the top 5.  Jabbar, Jordan, and James I would guess is the consensus top 3.

[wadesworld]

Curry is a top 10 player ever. But Klay would've been nearly as good as he is as long as he was in a decent system as well. Prior to his injury he hit unbelievably tough shots consistently. Go watch game 6 of the Thunder series down 3-2 the year before KD joined them.

NBA players are unbelievable. Yes, guys like Steph and Giannis give teammates open looks and it helps with their efficiency. But if you're good with those guys you're going to be good elsewhere. Look at Jrue. He was just as good with the Pelicans as he is next to Giannis. Look at Barnes, he's putting up the same numbers in Sacramento as he did next to Curry/Klay, he's just doing it for a team who doesn't win. Wiggins was putting up similar numbers for the Wolves as he is next to Curry/Klay. These players' efficiency probably go up a bit playing next to the generational stars, but overall they're pretty much the same player before and/or after playing next to these guys.

[forgetful]

Curry is a top 10 player ever. But Klay would've been nearly as good as he is as long as he was in a decent system as well. Prior to his injury he hit unbelievably tough shots consistently. Go watch game 6 of the Thunder series down 3-2 the year before KD joined them.

NBA players are unbelievable. Yes, guys like Steph and Giannis give teammates open looks and it helps with their efficiency. But if you're good with those guys you're going to be good elsewhere. Look at Jrue. He was just as good with the Pelicans as he is next to Giannis. Look at Barnes, he's putting up the same numbers in Sacramento as he did next to Curry/Klay, he's just doing it for a team who doesn't win. Wiggins was putting up similar numbers for the Wolves as he is next to Curry/Klay. These players' efficiency probably go up a bit playing next to the generational stars, but overall they're pretty much the same player before and/or after playing next to these guys.

I think you are underestimating the improvement because of Curry. Wiggins was mostly an under 50% eFG player, so his points were coming from high volume.

With GSW the last two seasons he was over 54% eFG, because he's getting wide open looks and/or favorable isolation matchups.

Players will always get numbers. Because someone has to score on teams. Efficiency is what separates average scorers from stars. Players like Curry turn those above average guys into All-stars.

[wadesworld]

I think you are underestimating the improvement because of Curry. Wiggins was mostly an under 50% eFG player, so his points were coming from high volume.

With GSW the last two seasons he was over 54% eFG, because he's getting wide open looks and/or favorable isolation matchups.

Players will always get numbers. Because someone has to score on teams. Efficiency is what separates average scorers from stars. Players like Curry turn those above average guys into All-stars.

Overall agree. Efficiency is where the difference is. But I'm not sure that's JUST the Steph effect as much as it is going from the top of opposing teams' scouting report to 3rd on opposing teams' scouting report, plus right into the heart of his prime as a player.

[Jockey]

Oh he is clearly top 10.  The greatest shooter from distance the game has ever seen and is symbolic of how the game has been revolutionized over the last decade.

Yes. And not only symbolic of how the game has changed, but a big reason why.

[MuggsyB]

I also think Curry gets mugged off the ball probably more than anyone in the league.  His endurance is incredible not to mention his variety of shots.  Some of the ones we saw last night are simply not makeable by anyone other than Curry.  He absolutely should have had two four point plays.

I would think Udoka changes his defensive game plan a bit in G5.  They will try to get the ball out of his hands.  I fully expect a lot of open looks for the auxiliary guys.  The thing you have to remind yourself when you're talking about all-time explosiveness is that 3pts > 2.  So yes, other great offensive players coukd go bananas, but they couldn't take a 2 pt game to 12 in the blink of an eye.  Remember Curry did once drain 77 in a row and 95/100 triples in a practice.  Once in a lifetime player but not a total genetic freak.  Muggsy was his favorite player as a child. 

[MU82]

Rating where players stack up all time is so subjective, of course, especially when trying to compare eras. But I guess that's the fun of it, and those are the kind of debates sports fans love.

FWIW, before this season The Athletic ranked the top 75 ever. They had Curry 15th behind (in order) ... Jordan, LeBron, Kareem, Russell, Magic, Wilt, Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Olajuwon, Oscar, Durant and West ... and just ahead of (rounding out the top 20) Mailman, Garnett, Moses, Dr. J, Admiral.

Again, that was all done before the season. I think it's safe to say Steph would move up if he wins another title, especially given performances like last night's.

But of course, anyone can pick nits at any list like this. I'd probably move Magic ahead of Kareem and Russell, maybe move Duncan and Kobe ahead of Shaq, probably drop Oscar down a few notches. And because we all have our biases, I'd probably move up Julius several notches because I remember him before his knees got shot and because his role in the NBA/ABA merger had a profound effect on pro basketball. That's all just spitballin', though, because I wasn't looking at stats or anything as I said all of the above.

[MuggsyB]

Rating where players stack up all time is so subjective, of course, especially when trying to compare eras. But I guess that's the fun of it, and those are the kind of debates sports fans love.

FWIW, before this season The Athletic ranked the top 75 ever. They had Curry 15th behind (in order) ... Jordan, LeBron, Kareem, Russell, Magic, Wilt, Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Olajuwon, Oscar, Durant and West ... and just ahead of (rounding out the top 20) Mailman, Garnett, Moses, Dr. J, Admiral.

Again, that was all done before the season. I think it's safe to say Steph would move up if he wins another title, especially given performances like last night's.

But of course, anyone can pick nits at any list like this. I'd probably move Magic ahead of Kareem and Russell, maybe move Duncan and Kobe ahead of Shaq, probably drop Oscar down a few notches. And because we all have our biases, I'd probably move up Julius several notches because I remember him before his knees got shot and because his role in the NBA/ABA merger had a profound effect on pro basketball. That's all just spitballin', though, because I wasn't looking at stats or anything as I said all of the above.

My modern 7 man rotation would be:

Curry
Jordan
Magic
James
Durant

with Giannis and Bird coming off the bench.