Olympics 2021

[MuggsyB]

Why does it matter if it's a physical or mental? (It's both)

It's when her psychological state put her physical state at risk.

Often times causes are mental that include stress, pressure, anxiety, (which have their own causes). She spoke of the need to be perfect, to perform for others instead of herself etc that she wasn't in a good head space. She frequently discusses various topics away from gymnastics that are mental health related.

Physically, overuse of muscles can cause involuntary spasms, etc..

Muscle memory is a combination of mental and physical things.

Gymnastics is a very precise mental sport in addition to its physicality.

There are other related gymnastics terms with other meanings as well. Sometimes the twisties can lat for a day or two, several months, or end a career.

You may be interested in the book "Phenomenon: Pressure the Yips and the Pitch that Changed My Life" by Rick Ankiel. (with Tim Brown) It's good. He was one of the more promising baseball pitchers I've ever seen.

It doesn't but I don't think she really mentioned or articulated very well this particular issue at her initial press conference.  It seems to me this muscle memory prob was the significant component which led her to deciding not to compete.  I think that's totally understandable but a lot of her answers insinuated that stress/pressure or "mental health" issues were at the forefront of her decision. 

There is certainly a mental aspect when it comes to muscle memory probs but I would say there is a major distinction between that and depression/anxiety related health issues.  I'm sure she was dealing with both elements and they overlap but she mentioned she had never felt this way before a competition.  Now we know she has dealt with this "lost in the air" yips type situation before.  I just feel had she articulated this at the initial press conference she would be dealing with far less scrutiny and accusations of quitting which have been unfair imo.

[The Sultan]

It doesn't but I don't think she really mentioned or articulated very well this particular issue at her initial press conference.  It seems to me this muscle memory prob was the significant component which led her to deciding not to compete.  I think that's totally understandable but a lot of her answers insinuated that stress/pressure or "mental health" issues were at the forefront of her decision. 

There is certainly a mental aspect when it comes to muscle memory probs but I would say there is a major distinction between that and depression/anxiety related health issues.  I'm sure she was dealing with both elements and they overlap but she mentioned she had never felt this way before a competition.  Now we know she has dealt with this "lost in the air" yips type situation before.  I just feel had she articulated this at the initial press conference she would be dealing with far less scrutiny and accusations of quitting which have been unfair imo.

As I said earlier...

Or maybe she doesn't need to say anything and people can stop speculating?

She really doesn't owe anyone an explanation.  If she didn't want to get into the details at her initial press conference, that's fine.

[MuggsyB]

As I said earlier...

She really doesn't owe anyone an explanation.  If she didn't want to get into the details at her initial press conference, that's fine.

But she did go into some detail at her press c FBM.  You're correct that she isn't required to say anything or owes anybody but she said a number of things without really explaining this muscle memory prob.

[shoothoops]

It doesn't but I don't think she really mentioned or articulated very well this particular issue at her initial press conference.  It seems to me this muscle memory prob was the significant component which led her to deciding not to compete.  I think that's totally understandable but a lot of her answers insinuated that stress/pressure or "mental health" issues were at the forefront of her decision. 

There is certainly a mental aspect when it comes to muscle memory probs but I would say there is a major distinction between that and depression/anxiety related health issues.  I'm sure she was dealing with both elements and they overlap but she mentioned she had never felt this way before a competition.  Now we know she has dealt with this "lost in the air" yips type situation before.  I just feel had she articulated this at the initial press conference she would be dealing with far less scrutiny and accusations of quitting which have been unfair imo.

I'm not sure what part of it's linked and overlapping together that seems to be difficult to understand.

For reasons I don't know, you seem determined to separate mental health and muscle memory. It's far too simplistic to say it's muscle memory or it's just this or that.

Not that it matters nor is it anyone's business but hers, but Biles has discussed at length the stress, pressures, fears, anxieties, insomnia, all kinds of things over the years.

[jesmu84]

https://www.insider.com/simone-biles-adhd-meds-banned-japan-impacting-performance-2021-7

Does this change any of the bashing?

[forgetful]

https://www.insider.com/simone-biles-adhd-meds-banned-japan-impacting-performance-2021-7

Does this change any of the bashing?

No one is really bashing. And even then, Ritalin is allowed for athletes. So it is a moot point.

https://www.teamusa.org/~/~/link.aspx?_id=88213FEFC85E48F391E518E4C393CE3A&_z=z

[jesmu84]

No one is really bashing. And even then, Ritalin is allowed for athletes. So it is a moot point.

https://www.teamusa.org/~/~/link.aspx?_id=88213FEFC85E48F391E518E4C393CE3A&_z=z

I'm sorry... what??!!

[MuggsyB]

I'm not sure what part of it's linked and overlapping together that seems to be difficult to understand.

For reasons I don't know, you seem determined to separate mental health and muscle memory. It's far too simplistic to say it's muscle memory or it's just this or that.

Not that it matters nor is it anyone's business but hers, but Biles has discussed at length the stress, pressures, fears, anxieties, insomnia, all kinds of things over the years.

But it actually does "matter".  Just like it would "matter" if the biggest star of any sport decided not to participate in whatever championship they are pursuing in the middle of their competition.  Are you saying if Aaron Rodgers had a presser similar to Simone Biles, after playing the 1Q of a Superbowl, the response would be  it's no one's business a.k.a. it's a complex mental health issue?  That's absolutely ludicrous and you know it. 

This is a woman who hasn't lost a competition in 7 yrs and has a goat on her leotard for a reason.  Of course it "matters",  this doesn't exactly happen every day.  And while many are calling her a "hero" and others are calling her a "quitter" the fact is both of these responses have been total fking nonsense.  Therefore I am trying to have a discussion and read different viewpoints about what actually happened.  This ADHD story may have contributed as well.

[shoothoops]

But it actually does "matter".  Just like it would "matter" if the biggest star of any sport decided not to participate in whatever championship they are pursuing in the middle of their competition.  Are you saying if Aaron Rodgers had a presser similar to Simone Biles, after playing the 1Q of a Superbowl, the response would be  it's no one's business a.k.a. it's a complex mental health issue?  That's absolutely ludicrous and you know it. 

This is a woman who hasn't lost a competition in 7 yrs and has a goat on her leotard for a reason.  Of course it "matters",  this doesn't exactly happen every day.  And while many are calling her a "hero" and others are calling her a "quitter" the fact is both of these responses have been total fking nonsense.  Therefore I am trying to have a discussion and read different viewpoints about what actually happened.  This ADHD story may have absolutely contributed as well.

There isn't both sides here.

Well, I suppose these are the two sides:

There are empathetic people that value mental, emotional and physical health as equally the same. And, there are self serving polarizing grifters, often racist and mysogonistic, etc..whose group cult followings put them on a pedestal and regurgitate their talking points.

Every single day in sports vague explanations are given to explain the extent of the reason. "Upper Body injury" "Lower body injury" and so on.

You've been provided quite a bit of information here, and, much is also available elsewhere. This seems more about you than her or anyone else. You don't seem to be able to accept the information that's been presented to you.

[jesmu84]

But it actually does "matter".  Just like it would "matter" if the biggest star of any sport decided not to participate in whatever championship they are pursuing in the middle of their competition.  Are you saying if Aaron Rodgers had a presser similar to Simone Biles, after playing the 1Q of a Superbowl, the response would be  it's no one's business a.k.a. it's a complex mental health issue?  That's absolutely ludicrous and you know it. 

This is a woman who hasn't lost a competition in 7 yrs and has a goat on her leotard for a reason.  Of course it "matters",  this doesn't exactly happen every day.  And while many are calling her a "hero" and others are calling her a "quitter" the fact is both of these responses have been total fking nonsense.  Therefore I am trying to have a discussion and read different viewpoints about what actually happened.  This ADHD story may have contributed as well.

You should go look at her instagram for more clarification

[shoothoops]

Katie Ledecky wins the 800 meter Olympic Gold. Ariarne Titmus was a distant 2nd. Ledecky now has the top 23 times ever for the Women's 800.

Ledecky now has the most individual golds of any Women's Swimmer, 6. Only Michael Phelps has more individual  Swimming Olympic Gold Medals. (13)

When surprisingly asked if this was her last Olympics, meaning retiring, Ledecky emphatically said she plans to swim in the 2024, and, 2028 Olympics.
...................

Caeleb Dressel continues to dominate. 100 Butterfly Gold. New World Record. It's his 3rd gold with a chance for 6 this Olympics. (Only Spitz, Otto, and Phelps have done it) He will swim 3 times in 80 minutes. Wow.

[warriorchick]

Ugh! Who chose the lineup for the US mixed medley?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Isn't this more of a physical issue as opposed to mental health?  It sounds like a muscle memory issue.  I'm wondering why she didn't mention this at her initial press conference?  Clearly this is something that is scary but has happened to her before.

Dude, a "muscle memory issue" IS a mental health issue. 100%. Trying to call them two different things is really weird. You think Steve Sax suddenly had a "muscle memory issue" when he suddenly couldn't throw to 1st base, that was somehow different than a mental issue? Sax having the yips was 100% mental.

As I said previously, the difference between Sax not being able to throw a baseball to 1st base and Biles not being able to land a 2 1/2 Yurchenko is that Sax was unlikely to need surgery/be paralyzed when he tossed the ball into the dugout.

[JWags85]

Ugh! Who chose the lineup for the US mixed medley?

The US performance was disappointing but I LOVE the event.  The wild swings are amazing.

[MuggsyB]

There isn't both sides here.

Well, I suppose these are the two sides:

There are empathetic people that value mental, emotional and physical health as equally the same. And, there are self serving polarizing grifters, often racist and mysogonistic, etc..whose group cult followings put them on a pedestal and regurgitate their talking points.

Every single day in sports vague explanations are given to explain the extent of the reason. "Upper Body injury" "Lower body injury" and so on.

You've been provided quite a bit of information here, and, much is also available elsewhere. This seems more about you than her or anyone else. You don't seem to be able to accept the information that's been presented to you.

I think the discussion is way more nuanced.  Mental health issues cover an enormous range and are obviously ubiquitous.  You can be empathetic about these issues but but at the same time have a conversation and disagree about certain factors as they pertain to athletes or other walks of life.

[MuggsyB]

Dude, a "muscle memory issue" IS a mental health issue. 100%. Trying to call them two different things is really weird. You think Steve Sax suddenly had a "muscle memory issue" when he suddenly couldn't throw to 1st base, that was somehow different than a mental issue? Sax having the yips was 100% mental.

As I said previously, the difference between Sax not being able to throw a baseball to 1st base and Biles not being able to land a 2 1/2 Yurchenko is that Sax was unlikely to need surgery/be paralyzed when he tossed the ball into the dugout.

I think both mental and physical play a factor here and distinctions need to be made.  An enormous percentage of people suffer from depression/anxiety/stress. myself included.  If a golfer completely loses it or Ben Simmons can't make a free throw there is obviously a mental component but also the physical component.  They may be perfectly happy low stress people but for some reason lose their muscle memory.

[MuggsyB]

Does anyone know if there a limit to how far a swimmer can be underwater to start these races or after the kick turns?  I was just curious.

[shoothoops]

I think the discussion is way more nuanced.  Mental health issues cover an enormous range and are obviously ubiquitous.  You can be empathetic about these issues but but at the same time have a conversation and disagree about certain factors as they pertain to athletes or other walks of life.

Right, Mental Health is a complex or nuanced topic with wide varieties within it. That means it isn't going to be wrapped up in a neat little bow the day of the event or a few days later with a perfect explanation and press conference.

Disagree about what? Racist mysogonistic maga sports types like the Clay I do one thing, but I make my money grifting the cult with intentionally negative polarizing takes Travis, and the like.

I don't think any sincere, empathetic person is calling her a quitter, as you mentioned earlier.

[Warriors4ever]

Nugget I just looked it up. Swimmers can only stay underwater 15 meters. I believe it's marked and I was watching something I think earlier today where they were replaying a start on tv and the swimmer was really close to that limit.
I was heading to bed and got hooked on this mixed triathlon relay. First time at the Olympics.

[The Sultan]

I think both mental and physical play a factor here and distinctions need to be made. 

No it actually doesn't.  Why you are continuing to question or debate this is beyond weird. 

[forgetful]

I'm sorry... what??!!

I was referring to here on Scoop. I'm assuming you are referring to more globally.

Yes, globally there is some bashing, but overall, I see more people calling her even more of a hero now.

Both stances are kind of ridiculous.

She did the smart thing, she protected her health; but she also failed as a gymnast this time. Not a big deal, we all fail. We grow through failures. She's still the greatest ever.

[jficke13]

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/are-you-allowed-to-criticize-simone-biles-a-decision-tree

[shoothoops]

Dream year continues for Spain's Pablo Carreno Busta in Men's Tennis.

Tremendous effort defeating Novak Djokovic in the Bronze Medal Match 6-4, 6-7, 6-3. What an effort. Wow.

He advanced to the U.S. Open semis this past year as well as the French Open quarters. First ATP 500 Title in Hamburg. First home country title in Marbella, Spain.

It's the 3rd loss n 24 hours for Djokovic. (It's a tough sport)

.....

By the way we often here about any "negative" on court behavior of Women players from certain people, while at the same time crickets for Men's players from these same people.

Here are a few you won't hear much about in Tokyo:

https://twitter.com/vanshv2k/status/1420809152998293508?s=21

https://twitter.com/vanshv2k/status/1420809152998293508?s=21

https://twitter.com/ashish__tv/status/1421387519476838406?s=21

For me it's more about the frequent double standard when it comes to Women and Men's behavior. It's tired. It's okay for Women to get upset and show emotion.

[shoothoops]

Pretty fun video of Detroit Lions QB David Blough watching his wife Melissa Gonzalez qualify for the Women's 400M Hurdles Semifinals in Tokyo. High School Sweethearts.  Melissa finished 2nd in her Heat, and runs for Colombia.

https://twitter.com/bradgalli/status/1421459236895301635?s=21

World Champion and Rio Gold Medalist Delilah Muhammed, (Queens, NYC) as well as World Record Holder Sydney McLaughlin (NJ) and, American Anna Cockrell (NC) also qualified. Super loaded electric field. All 3 live and train in L.A.(USC, USC, Kentucky)

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Nugget I just looked it up. Swimmers can only stay underwater 15 meters. I believe it's marked and I was watching something I think earlier today where they were replaying a start on tv and the swimmer was really close to that limit.
I was heading to bed and got hooked on this mixed triathlon relay. First time at the Olympics.

I was just going to comment on this also.  The mixed triathlon was good.  Was riveted too.