Olympics 2021

[MU82]

Simone does not have to publicly admit "failure" for me to give her "a complete pass here."

[21Jumpstreet]

Me too. I don't fault her at all for recognizing she wasn't mentally capable of performing. It takes a lot to make that decision on the world stage. But the treatment of her actions raises a lot of societal questions.

Should she be applauded as this making her even more the "GOAT," or people championing her as even a better teammate, because she cheered her teammates on. Which is something I see very commonly online. Maybe it is an artifact of my social circles, but I've seen no criticisms, and instead championing her as an ideal teammate and a hero for withdrawing.

What I would like to see is her admit this is a failure (maybe of no fault of her own; given extenuating circumstances), and to emphasize that as an athlete they need to be both physically and mentally prepared to deal with the stress and difficulty of a major competition. That she handled the physical part, but neglected the mental part, and that in the future she will do better.

We grow through failure. Someone who has succeeded at such a high level as her admitting that she too can fail would be a very powerful statement. I'd definitely 100% champion her for that. Especially if she ever came back and competed and went back to kicking the crap out of others.

All of us deal with major stress at times. If we fail to perform, most of us would be fired and it held against us forever. If a policeman was put into a life-saving situation and panicked and ran, he would be called a coward. Same if a fireman showed up to a fire, panicked and let the people inside burn/die. If a doctor that arrives on a emergency scene fails to provide life-saving aide, because they panic, they can be charged with negligent homicide. A soldier who panics and runs will be court-marshaled.

I've seen a lot of posts from friends who are educators, championing Simone for stepping out and calling her a mental-health warrior. But if one of their students let the stress get to them before an exam, and had to leave the room, or asked for an extension because of stress/panic, they'd hand them the zero and say everyone else was in the same situation and you need to learn to deal with it, because stress is a part of life.

If we are going to give Simone a complete pass here (which I'm fine with), then we need to re-evaluate how we view others. Again, I think Simone made the smart decision, she did the right thing for herself and her health, but how should that be viewed in the bigger picture...do we re-evaluate how we treat stress/panic universally?

I don’t think she is anywhere near getting a complete pass (her life both up to last night and since), and I would bet very few of us have or will ever experience her struggles, successes, or pressure. In order to get to her level, she had to have experienced a number of failures and have the mental toughness of a Titan. She hasn’t lived a life of luxury and bon bons, she physically and mentally busted her ass day after day, isolated, for nearly her entire life.

I would also say that educators would absolutely hear and adapt to their students if one of them approached them like your example. Certainly not all, but times are changing and continue to change with regard to the mental health of our young people. Thank goodness.

It sucks that she withdrew, I was super stoked to watch her, and she doesn’t owe me anything.

[Jockey]

Too bad she didn't act on her mental health prior to taking up a spot on the team. Deprived another gymnast from competing, hey?

Too bad she didn't wait to be sexually assaulted until after she won a couple medals for you.

[Hards Alumni]

Too bad she didn't wait to be sexually assaulted until after she won a couple medals for you.

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[forgetful]

Would we label it a "failure" if she wasn't able to compete due to an injury or a physical illness?  If not, why would we label it a "failure" if she is suffering from a mental illness?

(I don't know the answers to this.  Just hypotheticals.)

I think that is the difficulty in this. A physical injury or illness, probably not.

But immense stress is an expected part of competing. And part of what we consider an elite athlete is overcoming those stresses.

Imagine Lebron walking off the court in warmups of a Game 7 of the NBA finals, because he felt the weight of the world on his shoulders. He'd be ripped to shreds. Steven A. Smith would run a 24-hour special calling him the worst of things. Being labeled a failure would be the least of the things he was called. Admittedly, I would be far from kind.

If Giannis had buckled under pressure and went 0-19 from the FT line and the Bucks lost. He would have been called a failure, and would have been ridiculed, regardless of whether he came out publicly and said that he wasn't in a good place mentally.

In both these cases it would be fair to say they failed their team on those occasions, despite being amongst the greatest ever.

We have Ledecky being attacked as a failure for not living up to unrealistic expectations. I'm sure she was under immense stress/pressure, she went out there an gave it her all and came up short in some races she wasn't even expected to win. But is being attacked, even though she actually did what she was expected to do. What if she just came out and said she isn't competing, because mentally she isn't ready?

For a gymnast, its a little different in that she should not have competed as it wouldn't have been safe. But she still wasn't able to live up to what was expected of her.

We do label athletes as failures for coming up short physically, often times these shortcomings are rooted in mental health issues.

I agree with others. She doesn't owe me anything. And she made the right decision for her health and well being. But I think it is fair to say that as a gymnast and a teammate she didn't live up to expectations for her sport on this occasion. Still the greatest ever, and one who has been immensely wronged in many ways.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

What happened during her vault was very scary.  It was like she was sleepwalking and suddenly woke up in the middle of the air and had no idea where she was.

Interesting thread here from a former gymnast on what she might be experiencing. https://twitter.com/WittyNameChoice/status/1420225657938710533

Seems kinda like when a pitcher or fielder gets the yips, except bouncing a pitch into home plate seldom has the chance of leaving the pitcher seriously injured or paralyzed.

[MuggsyB]

I think that is the difficulty in this. A physical injury or illness, probably not.

But immense stress is an expected part of competing. And part of what we consider an elite athlete is overcoming those stresses.

Imagine Lebron walking off the court in warmups of a Game 7 of the NBA finals, because he felt the weight of the world on his shoulders. He'd be ripped to shreds. Steven A. Smith would run a 24-hour special calling him the worst of things. Being labeled a failure would be the least of the things he was called. Admittedly, I would be far from kind.

If Giannis had buckled under pressure and went 0-19 from the FT line and the Bucks lost. He would have been called a failure, and would have been ridiculed, regardless of whether he came out publicly and said that he wasn't in a good place mentally.

In both these cases it would be fair to say they failed their team on those occasions, despite being amongst the greatest ever.

We have Ledecky being attacked as a failure for not living up to unrealistic expectations. I'm sure she was under immense stress/pressure, she went out there an gave it her all and came up short in some races she wasn't even expected to win. But is being attacked, even though she actually did what she was expected to do. What if she just came out and said she isn't competing, because mentally she isn't ready?

For a gymnast, its a little different in that she should not have competed as it wouldn't have been safe. But she still wasn't able to live up to what was expected of her.

We do label athletes as failures for coming up short physically, often times these shortcomings are rooted in mental health issues.

I agree with others. She doesn't owe me anything. And she made the right decision for her health and well being. But I think it is fair to say that as a gymnast and a teammate she didn't live up to expectations for her sport on this occasion. Still the greatest ever, and one who has been immensely wronged in many ways.

I agree that the reaction to Lebron or Giannis would have been far, far, different but I think there is a unique component to her sport.  This is the same woman who dominated the world championships after passing a kidney stone.  Her toughness and mental fortitude has always been at the very highest level, that's why I believe something is amiss. 

The point that has been made about "being lost in the air" is something to really think about and unique to gymnastics and perhaps figure skating or diving.   If she had no confidence for whatever reason that she could land her incredible flip/twist stuff, there's no question she was fearful of severe injuries regardless if she felt absolutely fine physically. 

She's human, not a dolphin or a humpback whale who can do these things stress free.  I'm not crazy about the timing, and I do think there's more to this story.  But I also think you have to consider that going through the motions, or struggling mentally doing the air show required of a gymnast, can lead to something dangerous physically.  If she says that's the case I'm going to take her word for it.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I agree that the reaction to Lebron or Giannis would have been far, far, different but I think there is a unique component to her sport.  This is the same woman who dominated the world championships after passing a kidney stone.  Her toughness and mental fortitude has always been at the very highest level, that's why I believe something is amiss. 

The point that has been made about "being lost in the air" is something to really think about and unique to gymnastics and perhaps figure skating or diving.   If she had no confidence for whatever reason that she could land her incredible flip/twist stuff, there's no question she was fearful of severe injuries regardless of she felt absolutely fine physically. 

She's human, not a dolphin or a humpback whale who can do these things stress free.  I'm not crazy about the timing, and I do think there's more to this story.  But I also think you have to consider that going through the motions, or struggling mentally doing the air show required of a gymnast, can lead to something dangerous physically.  If she says that's the case I'm going to take her word for it.

Or maybe she doesn't need to say anything and people can stop speculating?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

The backlash to Biles online - and the snark in here - sure is something

By and large, the people criticizing her now and calling her weak are the same a$$holes who complain that wearing a strip of cloth over your mouth is too stressful.

[MuggsyB]

Or maybe she doesn't need to say anything and people can stop speculating?

Ya....I just have to disagree with that.  She was the face of the entire Olympics, competed, and then couldn't for some reason.  She has a goat on her leotard and has benefited tremendously from her country, sport, and overall talents.  No one at the top of their sport, at their pinnacle competition or event, would not be questioned or have people speculating about what possibly happened. 

[Hards Alumni]

Ya....I just have to disagree with that.  She was the face of the entire Olympics, competed, and then couldn't for some reason.  She has a goat on her leotard and has benefited tremendously from her country, sport, and overall talents.  No one at the top of there sport, at their pinnacle competition or event, would not be questioned or have people speculating about what possibly happened.

Okay, but don't expect her to answer.  I'm fine with people asking the questions, but we're talking about a sport here, not life or death.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Ya....I just have to disagree with that.  She was the face of the entire Olympics, competed, and then couldn't for some reason.  She has a goat on her leotard and has benefited tremendously from her country, sport, and overall talents.  No one at the top of their sport, at their pinnacle competition or event, would not be questioned or have people speculating about what possibly happened. 

I get that.  But that doesn't mean they should.  She owes no one an explanation.

[StillAWarrior]

The point that has been made about "being lost in the air" is something to really think about and unique to gymnastics...

This is very true. The slow-motion video they kept showing of her vault was alarming. Gymnasts typically have very active eyes when they are in the air and you can see them spotting the floor and preparing to land. Her eyes really were blank. Thank goodness her well-honed muscle memory got her close enough that she was able to land safely. I think I'd be tougher on a lot of other athletes than her because there is a legitimate safety concern in this case.

She's a fantastic athlete. I feel badly for her. I hope that this isn't what she is remembered for.

[21Jumpstreet]

I think that is the difficulty in this. A physical injury or illness, probably not.

But immense stress is an expected part of competing. And part of what we consider an elite athlete is overcoming those stresses.

Imagine Lebron walking off the court in warmups of a Game 7 of the NBA finals, because he felt the weight of the world on his shoulders. He'd be ripped to shreds. Steven A. Smith would run a 24-hour special calling him the worst of things. Being labeled a failure would be the least of the things he was called. Admittedly, I would be far from kind.

If Giannis had buckled under pressure and went 0-19 from the FT line and the Bucks lost. He would have been called a failure, and would have been ridiculed, regardless of whether he came out publicly and said that he wasn't in a good place mentally.

In both these cases it would be fair to say they failed their team on those occasions, despite being amongst the greatest ever.

We have Ledecky being attacked as a failure for not living up to unrealistic expectations. I'm sure she was under immense stress/pressure, she went out there an gave it her all and came up short in some races she wasn't even expected to win. But is being attacked, even though she actually did what she was expected to do. What if she just came out and said she isn't competing, because mentally she isn't ready?

For a gymnast, its a little different in that she should not have competed as it wouldn't have been safe. But she still wasn't able to live up to what was expected of her.

We do label athletes as failures for coming up short physically, often times these shortcomings are rooted in mental health issues.

I agree with others. She doesn't owe me anything. And she made the right decision for her health and well being. But I think it is fair to say that as a gymnast and a teammate she didn't live up to expectations for her sport on this occasion. Still the greatest ever, and one who has been immensely wronged in many ways.

I think you’ve hit on the word, expectations. Whose expectations didn’t she live up to? Who sets the standard for expectations? Does it matter? Is it fair? These questions aren’t directed at you. My guess is that she expected more of herself, just a guess, but she is an elite athlete, perhaps the most elite. My guess is that she also expected more of the gymnastics system.

For me, I don’t think my expectations matter nor do my judgements. For me, the timing doesn’t matter, the way she did iit doesn’t matter, even the fact that she stayed and cheered doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter how LeBron or Giannis would be treated, and I do think that has specifically changed over the years with rest days and taking time off for mental health. I understand that isn’t normally done in the finals, for example, but my guess is that it will happen in the future.

Just because she is an elite athlete doesn’t necessarily mean she sought out the public eye, praise and scrutiny, nor does it mean that just because we think it’s part of the agreement an elite athlete makes with media or fans that it can’t evolve. For all we know she loved gymnastics and had an insatiable appetite to be the best ever regardless of anyone else’s expectations or any potential outcomes.

I personally don’t think she failed anyone nor should she be looked at as a failure. She is the best that has ever been.

[21Jumpstreet]

Ya....I just have to disagree with that.  She was the face of the entire Olympics, competed, and then couldn't for some reason.  She has a goat on her leotard and has benefited tremendously from her country, sport, and overall talents.  No one at the top of their sport, at their pinnacle competition or event, would not be questioned or have people speculating about what possibly happened.

She didn’t make herself the face of the entire Olympics. She has earned everything she has gotten. Asking questions is one thing, questioning is another.

[warriorchick]

I've seen a lot of posts from friends who are educators, championing Simone for stepping out and calling her a mental-health warrior. But if one of their students let the stress get to them before an exam, and had to leave the room, or asked for an extension because of stress/panic, they'd hand them the zero and say everyone else was in the same situation and you need to learn to deal with it, because stress is a part of life.

In her case, Simone was indeed handed a zero.  It's not like she asked to compete a week or so later when she was feeling better.  She fully accepted the consequences of her decision to withdraw.

[jesmu84]

When she didn't think she could do what was needed, she stepped aside. Pushing through whatever issue she was dealing with, then making multiple mistakes and hurting her teammates would have resulted in significant scorn as well.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Too bad she didn't wait to be sexually assaulted until after she won a couple medals for you.

That's more moronic than 99% of your posts.

[rocket surgeon]

Too bad she didn't wait to be sexually assaulted until after she won a couple medals for you.

what the...???  please tell me someone hacked your account cuz this is demented beyond comprehension

[CreightonWarrior]

Unreal comeback by Bobby Finke in the final 50m of the 800m swim.

[shoothoops]

Unreal comeback by Bobby Finke in the final 50m of the 800m swim.

26.3 final 50 meters overtaking the top 3 swimmers. Wow.

[shoothoops]

For those that don’t understand the Twisties:

https://twitter.com/emilygiam/status/1420329974028935171?s=21

[CreightonWarrior]

 Dressed was a monster. Great moment talking to his family live after the race. One of the things NBC has done that I’ve enjoyed.

[shoothoops]

Caeleb Dressel Olympic Record 100M Free. Whoa.

Michael Phelps said before the U.S. Men lost the 4x200 Free Relay that Dressel needed to be on it, and, it turned out to be the first Olympic Swimming relay in 95 races the U.S. didn’t medal without Dressel.

2 Gold. 4 events left for Dressel.

Great moment the other night after winning the 4x100 relay, gave his medal to Brooks Curry who swam for him in prelims.

https://twitter.com/nbcolympics/status/1419512431064371205?s=21

https://twitter.com/nbcolympics/status/1420579749521510403?s=21

[JWags85]

Dressel seems like an awesome dude.  Very genuine and charismatic.  He was breaking down splits in his head last night after the semi while doing his interview and it was endearing cause he clearly didn't zap into some polished interview mode.

All relay participants get medals, but Curry getting to have the medal at the games at the games is some nice juice and recognition for him.