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Author Topic: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings  (Read 5589 times)

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2021, 10:55:08 AM »
Also, Dawson Garcia was a freshman and Carton was a sophomore who only played a few games as a freshman.  Of course they had problems with consistency.  Almost all but the most talented freshmen have similar problems.  The problem that Marquette had last year wasn't Garcia's or Carton's inconsistency, it was that there wasn't a solid group of experienced players that could pick them up when they were being inconsistent. 
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jficke13

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2021, 10:59:32 AM »
Most players improve, and some improve dramatically, especially if they get to play under a superior coach who will have them better prepared and who will hold them more accountable. I would have loved to have seen Carton stay because I think he would have been first-team All-BEast, and I very much hope Garcia stays.

I'm not saying you did this, but I just don't get how so many Scoopers seem to ignore the possibility (likelihood IMHO) that athletes improve as they mature and gain experience. "We don't need them. They're Wojo guys." That's just dopey. Again, not saying this was your take, Lens.

I hope you're right about 10-10. I too think that if the right players "grow up" fast, we have a chance to be sneaky good. But that's mostly my optimistic nature talking because it's pretty hard to project how a team will do when it's filled with guys I've never seen.

Yup. I *want* these newcomers and freshmen to show up and ball out like the Wes/Nic/Rel trio, but my realistic side says that's not likely. It could happen though, and I hope it does. I suspect even if the newcomers are better than we expect, that their relative inexperience will lead to some inconsistent play, but that's part of the deal. Like many many many people have said here: More than anything I want grinding effort and a team that's better in the Garden in March than it is in the Al in October. Everything else is gravy.

The Lens

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2021, 11:00:20 AM »
DJC will be on his 4th team in 4 years next season, that says a lot about him.   I don’t know how much he wants to buy into a program and improve.

Dawson Garcia is not on a single draft mock (the good ones are made from informed draftniks talking to NBA scouts on a daily basis) yet he has been away from team since the BET.  I guess I’m not expecting much in his maturation either. 
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BLM

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2021, 11:19:08 AM »
DJC will be on his 4th team in 4 years next season, that says a lot about him.   I don’t know how much he wants to buy into a program and improve.

Dawson Garcia is not on a single draft mock (the good ones are made from informed draftniks talking to NBA scouts on a daily basis) yet he has been away from team since the BET.  I guess I’m not expecting much in his maturation either.

Zion played for 3 teams in 3 years.  Guy clearly has a lack of commitment to a team.  Pels should trade him while he still has SOME trade value.

Cade Cunningham going on his 3rd team in 3 years.  Same with Jalen Suggs.  Same with Evan Mobley.  Same with Jalen Green.  Same with Jonathan Kaminga.  Same with Keon Johnson.  Frankly, I'm glad the Bucks won't be picking until the second round.  A bunch of me first guys with no commitment to the team concept.
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DFW HOYA

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2021, 12:18:01 PM »
The rankings undersell Marquette and Seton Hall, and oversell St. John's (as usual). Outside of #1, #2, and DePaul, everything else is up for grabs.


Lennys Tap

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2021, 12:34:48 PM »
Zion played for 3 teams in 3 years.  Guy clearly has a lack of commitment to a team.  Pels should trade him while he still has SOME trade value.

Cade Cunningham going on his 3rd team in 3 years.  Same with Jalen Suggs.  Same with Evan Mobley.  Same with Jalen Green.  Same with Jonathan Kaminga.  Same with Keon Johnson.  Frankly, I'm glad the Bucks won't be picking until the second round.  A bunch of me first guys with no commitment to the team concept.

Comparing Carton and Garcia’s situation to Zion’s, Cunningham’s, etc., is absurd.

BLM

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2021, 12:58:35 PM »
Comparing Carton and Garcia’s situation to Zion’s, Cunningham’s, etc., is absurd.

So is saying someone who’s invited to the NBA Draft Combine is immature for preparing for the NBA Draft and someone who transferred schools once before deciding to play professionally is uninterested in buying into a team concept. So the point got through to you. Congrats.
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barfolomew

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2021, 01:01:33 PM »
The passionate Marquette fan base finally got its long-desired head coach, Shaka Smart

I'll have to track down this author so I can yell at him/her on social media for using this moniker, which is clearly a sportswriter euphemism for "those a-holes who keep yelling at me on social media".
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The Lens

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2021, 01:02:50 PM »
Zion played for 3 teams in 3 years.  Guy clearly has a lack of commitment to a team.  Pels should trade him while he still has SOME trade value.

Cade Cunningham going on his 3rd team in 3 years.  Same with Jalen Suggs.  Same with Evan Mobley.  Same with Jalen Green.  Same with Jonathan Kaminga.  Same with Keon Johnson.  Frankly, I'm glad the Bucks won't be picking until the second round.  A bunch of me first guys with no commitment to the team concept.

If you can't see the difference between projected lottery picks going One and Done and guys who don't even have a 2nd Round Grade, I can't help you.  I get the whole bet on yourself thing but DJC hasn't spent even 9 months in his last two stops.
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BLM

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2021, 01:12:19 PM »
If you can't see the difference between projected lottery picks going One and Done and guys who don't even have a 2nd Round Grade, I can't help you.  I get the whole bet on yourself thing but DJC hasn't spent even 9 months in his last two stops.

I’m guessing he understands the chances are high he’ll have to play in the G League or overseas. Maybe he thinks his best chance to eventually make the NBA is to be able to play basketball full time and not have to worry about school, while being paid to play basketball instead of playing for free. Doesn’t make him a selfish kid uninterested in playing team basketball.
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The Lens

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2021, 01:24:53 PM »
I’m guessing he understands the chances are high he’ll have to play in the G League or overseas. Maybe he thinks his best chance to eventually make the NBA is to be able to play basketball full time and not have to worry about school, while being paid to play basketball instead of playing for free. Doesn’t make him a selfish kid uninterested in playing team basketball.

I never said it did.  My post was in reference to him coming back to MU and maturing.  I don't think that was really an option.  I fully support his choice to go elsewhere, but I'm not going to go down this whole rabbit hole of emotions about the lost 2nd year of DJC bc I don't think that was ever in the cards.
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Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2021, 01:28:28 PM »
I never said it did.  My post was in reference to him coming back to MU and maturing.  I don't think that was really an option.  I fully support his choice to go elsewhere, but I'm not going to go down this whole rabbit hole of emotions about the lost 2nd year of DJC bc I don't think that was ever in the cards.


Especially after they fired Wojo.

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WarriorPride68

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2021, 02:47:21 PM »
food for thought; few different scenarios on the Roster Cast feature:

51st T-Rank if Dawson returns & Morsell transfers in

60th T-Rank if Dawson returns & no Morsell

79th T-Rank if Dawson declares & Morsell transfers in

93rd T-Rank if Dawson declares & no Morsell

The Lens

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2021, 03:05:02 PM »
Last season UGA finished 93rd.

14-12 overall, 7-11 in conference
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Billy Hoyle

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2021, 04:12:52 PM »
The rankings undersell Marquette and Seton Hall, and oversell St. John's (as usual). Outside of #1, #2, and DePaul, everything else is up for grabs.

St. John's was picked 9th across the board last year (they finished 4th) and 10th in 2019-20 (they finished 8th). I'm not sure how that is "overselling" them.

With MU having an entirely new roster it's hard to get a true grasp on what they're going to do this year.
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Lennys Tap

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2021, 08:53:49 PM »

Especially after they fired Wojo.

Wasn’t his plan always to just stay one year? He jumped on the Shaka train when he was announced, but I thought DJ said as much when he came to MU.

TAMU Eagle

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2021, 09:41:58 PM »
Wasn’t his plan always to just stay one year? He jumped on the Shaka train when he was announced, but I thought DJ said as much when he came to MU.

Initially yes,  but the staff thought his tune had changed prior to Wojo getting the heave ho
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bilsu

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2021, 09:51:08 PM »
The rankings undersell Marquette and Seton Hall, and oversell St. John's (as usual). Outside of #1, #2, and DePaul, everything else is up for grabs.
St. John's coach has never had a losing season. Coaching does matter. Shaka has to prove to me that he can coach. Texas was glad to get rid of him.

The Lens

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2021, 07:29:32 AM »
St. John's coach has never had a losing season. Coaching does matter. Shaka has to prove to me that he can coach. Texas was glad to get rid of him.

Texas doesn’t give a crap about basketball.  Their brand new arena is a concerts first venue.  The entire athletic department is a football centric endeavor.  Shaka now is back where everyone is pulling in the same direction.  He’s going to the Moon 🚀🚀🚀🚀
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Herman Cain

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2021, 08:33:35 AM »
St. John's coach has never had a losing season. Coaching does matter. Shaka has to prove to me that he can coach. Texas was glad to get rid of him.
Burt Reynolds couldn't get rid of Lonnie Anderson fast enough, that didn't mean she was a dog.
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Scoop Snoop

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #45 on: June 12, 2021, 09:34:58 AM »
St. John's coach has never had a losing season. Coaching does matter. Shaka has to prove to me that he can coach. Texas was glad to get rid of him.

Or what?
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Boozemon Barro

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #46 on: June 12, 2021, 10:35:53 AM »
1st or bust.

brewcity77

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #47 on: June 12, 2021, 11:40:40 AM »
Shaka has to prove to me that he can coach.

He was in the top-20 of every edition of the AP Poll released this past season, in the top-15 all but the first two polls, and in the top-10 eight times. Then he won the Big 12 Tournament. And he's had a top-40 adjusted defensive efficiency each of the past 10 years despite changing programs, personnel, and defensive systems. He's been to 8 of the last 10 NCAA Tournaments. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have to prove anything to you.

MU82

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #48 on: June 12, 2021, 12:52:58 PM »
Texas doesn’t give a crap about basketball.  Their brand new arena is a concerts first venue.  The entire athletic department is a football centric endeavor.

Well, they gave enough of a crap to give huge money to steal the best coach available from an in-state, conference rival.

Quite possibly, Texas fans by-and-large don't give a crap about basketball. But somebody at Texas does, or they would have promoted an assistant and given him $300K.
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BLM

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Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #49 on: June 12, 2021, 06:52:41 PM »
Shaka won’t prove to me he can coach until he makes a Final Four.

Oh wait…
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