MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: geps on June 10, 2021, 06:17:34 PM

Title: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: geps on June 10, 2021, 06:17:34 PM
9 Marquette

Potential starters: Justin Lewis, Dawson Garcia, Greg Elliott, Tyler Kolek (transfer), Stevie Mitchell (freshman)
Bench: Oso Ighodaro, Kam Jones (freshman), Emarion Ellis (freshman), Keeyan Itejere (freshman), David Joplin (freshman), Kur Kuath (transfer), Olivier-Maxence Prosper (transfer)

The passionate Marquette fan base finally got its long-desired head coach, Shaka Smart, albeit a few years later than it first thought. In former coach Steve Wojciechowski’s seven seasons at the helm, Marquette went to two NCAA Tournaments, losing in the first round both times. Smart is finally returning to his Wisconsin roots after a six-season stint at Texas, and a new era dawns in Milwaukee. It’s a good fit, but as with any new coach, the first year should be projected with some tempered expectations.

And with Marquette, the upcoming outlook is largely dependent on the decision of Dawson Garcia, who is navigating the draft evaluation process. If the 6-11 Garcia returns, it would give the Golden Eagles a reliable scorer (13.0 points a game, 48 percent shooting). Garcia also added 6.6 rebounds a game. With an offseason of development, Garcia could be scary for the Golden Eagles. The new coaching staff is offering support in the meantime. Regardless, Smart will be working with a young roster — 10 of the 12 scholarship players are underclassmen. There are a lot of departures from last year’s roster, creating a new look, so it’s very, very early to think of starters, let alone the final product.

9th? You gotta be kidding. Not much faith in Shaka per this author.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Skatastrophy on June 10, 2021, 06:23:25 PM
https://archive.ph/pOjXk

1. Nova
2. UConn
3. X
4. GTown
5. Butler
6. Creighton
7. Johnnies
8. Providence
9. The Gold
10. Seton Hall
11. DePaw
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Mu8891 on June 10, 2021, 06:28:15 PM
With Garcia ... I could see 6th or
7th, but w/ out him ?  9th seems right.

I mean they just have a bunch of (very
young very thin)guys.  No experience.
No stud.   It’s just his first few months and Joplin is a nice get ... other than that .. meh

The roster for this next season will not be as good as last year’s roster.

Hopefully better coaching will help,
But how much ?
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: MuggsyB on June 10, 2021, 07:15:53 PM
We desperately need to add some prime-time players.  I think everyone expects a transition year for MU but maybe we land a late hammer transfer?
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: dad's couch on June 10, 2021, 07:36:52 PM
With Garcia ... I could see 6th or
7th, but w/ out him ?  9th seems right.

I mean they just have a bunch of (very
young very thin)guys.  No experience.
No stud.   It’s just his first few months and Joplin is a nice get ... other than that .. meh

The roster for this next season will not be as good as last year’s roster.

Hopefully better coaching will help,
But how much ?
You do realize he has us as 9th with Garcia as a starter?
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Mu8891 on June 10, 2021, 08:04:11 PM
Dad ...

Yikes !  If that’s the case, then I disagree ( cuz I think they could be a bit higher w / Garcia)

But, it’s a very depressing outlook for next year.  I hope we / the Athletic are wrong.  Muggs is right ... MU needs a real impact transfer ... which I don’t see happening

This coming season could be really
Ugly.   I hope I’m missing something...

But again we just have a roster of young , thin , kinda “ meh “ prospects.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Herman Cain on June 10, 2021, 08:08:34 PM
When I look at the rest of the teams in our league, outside of Nova and U -Conn, there is not much , if any, in talent differential. So in a 20 game conference season it will come down to coaching. I believe Shaka will do a great job coaching the team and we will surprise a lot of people.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: tower912 on June 10, 2021, 08:23:07 PM
There will be a lot more preseason projections saying approximately the same thing.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Mu8891 on June 10, 2021, 09:38:59 PM
Herm. - hope u are right

MU is going to be picked for a baaad
Year.   Hope they / we are wrong
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 11, 2021, 08:07:17 AM
I’d put Seton Hall ahead of them
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 11, 2021, 08:37:44 AM
I’d put Seton Hall ahead of them

I would too, though there are some teams ahead of them that I might put behind them.

The reality this season is that there is Nova, UConn, and X and everyone else. I don't think that there is too much disparity between the bottom 8 teams, except maybe DePaul.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: The Lens on June 11, 2021, 08:38:55 AM
I like Ellis as the starting guard opposite Kolek. 
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 11, 2021, 08:48:23 AM
I would too, though there are some teams ahead of them that I might put behind them.

The reality this season is that there is Nova, UConn, and X and everyone else. I don't think that there is too much disparity between the bottom 8 teams, except maybe DePaul.

Georgetown could be pretty bad, too.  Outside Villanova, it feels like the league is spinning its wheels in some ways right now. 
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Herman Cain on June 11, 2021, 09:05:58 AM
I like Ellis as the starting guard opposite Kolek.
Ellis is one of my pre - season favorites. Love what that kid brings to the table.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Scoop Snoop on June 11, 2021, 09:28:27 AM
We desperately need to add some prime-time players.  I think everyone expects a transition year for MU but maybe we land a late hammer transfer?

As much as we all would like to see a season saving transfer, I think we have to ask why would such a player come to Marquette. Shaka is systems guy, not a coach like Wojo who would allow a guy to showboat. Same reason that I think Garcia, if he decides to stay in college one more year, chooses a school other than Marquette- Shaka will be focused on developing a team, not allowing a player to put on a show for NBA scouts at the risk of delaying team/system development.   
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: lawdog77 on June 11, 2021, 09:31:01 AM
If Morsell and Garcia are here, how does our lineup compare to last year?

I would take Morsell, Kolek, Elliott (if healthy), Garcia and Lewis over last years starters (when Carton was not on his A game). If Carton was playing how we hoped, I may take last years starters. I like our bench this year, even though they are young. Coaching, no need to even mention that.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: MU82 on June 11, 2021, 09:37:36 AM
As much as we all would like to see a season saving transfer, I think we have to ask why would such a player come to Marquette. Shaka is systems guy, not a coach like Wojo who would allow a guy to showboat. Same reason that I think Garcia, if he decides to stay in college one more year, chooses a school other than Marquette- Shaka will be focused on developing a team, not allowing a player to put on a show for NBA scouts at the risk of delaying team/system development.

Not all players with pro aspirations need to hear they will be allowed to "showboat."

Shaka can tell players:, "I know what it takes to get to the NBA. When I was at Texas, I had a first-round draft pick in 3 straight years, including two guys who went in the top 10. I also had a top-15 pick when I was at VCU and had others who went on to play in the league. If you truly have NBA potential and if you work hard, we can prepare you for a long, profitable career."

Many have pointed out that one of Shaka's strengths is salesmanship.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Scoop Snoop on June 11, 2021, 09:53:55 AM
Not all players with pro aspirations need to hear they will be allowed to "showboat."

Shaka can tell players:, "I know what it takes to get to the NBA. When I was at Texas, I had a first-round draft pick in 3 straight years, including two guys who went in the top 10. I also had a top-15 pick when I was at VCU and had others who went on to play in the league. If you truly have NBA potential and if you work hard, we can prepare you for a long, profitable career."

Many have pointed out that one of Shaka's strengths is salesmanship.

All true, but I as referring specifically to this coming season at Marquette. A season saver transfer would, I think, be probably be looking at only one year. Once Shaka has established MU as a solid, competitive team sure, he can sell players on his success of getting players into the NBA. My point is simply that this is probably not the best year for his helping a player getting into the NBA. 
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: MU82 on June 11, 2021, 10:00:51 AM
All true, but I as referring specifically to this coming season at Marquette. A season saver transfer would, I think, be probably be looking at only one year. Once Shaka has established MU as a solid, competitive team sure, he can sell players on his success of getting players into the NBA. My point is simply that this is probably not the best year for his helping a player getting into the NBA.

Perhaps. Or not.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Golden Avalanche on June 11, 2021, 10:04:02 AM
Not a good feeling for the program when a projection that has you 9th focuses entirely on a guy who won't be here.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: The Lens on June 11, 2021, 10:10:12 AM
Not a good feeling for the program when a projection that has you 9th focuses entirely on a guy who won't be here.

I know Shaka offered Dawson at Texas but I'm not sold on Dawson in Shaka's system based on what we saw last season.  Dawson and DJC are much more talented than anyone on this roster but their tendency to float in and out of games leaves me believing we can win next season with a Buzz like, "whole greater sum of our parts" year. 

I think 10-10 in is conference is realistic.  The stories I am hearing from The Al in terms of the hours the entire basketball office is working right now, and the excitement level in the building tells me something good is brewing. 
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: JakeBarnes on June 11, 2021, 10:28:03 AM
I know Shaka offered Dawson at Texas but I'm not sold on Dawson in Shaka's system based on what we saw last season.  Dawson and DJC are much more talented than anyone on this roster but their tendency to float in and out of games leaves me believing we can win next season with a Buzz like, "whole greater sum of our parts" year. 

I think 10-10 in is conference is realistic.  The stories I am hearing from The Al in terms of the hours the entire basketball office is working right now, and the excitement level in the building tells me something good is brewing.

Great to see the excitement is not just on the board, but in the Al.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Scoop Snoop on June 11, 2021, 10:29:20 AM
I know Shaka offered Dawson at Texas but I'm not sold on Dawson in Shaka's system based on what we saw last season.  Dawson and DJC are much more talented than anyone on this roster but their tendency to float in and out of games leaves me believing we can win next season with a Buzz like, "whole greater sum of our parts" year. 

I think 10-10 in is conference is realistic.  The stories I am hearing from The Al in terms of the hours the entire basketball office is working right now, and the excitement level in the building tells me something good is brewing.

I absolutely loved watching the 2 guys when they were "on". Stating that they floated in and out is fair, and not, as some here will claim, attacking a guy who has left and another one who seems to be gone. When they were hot, they were hot but their disappearing acts for stretches killed us.

Love hearing someone predicting a 10-10 conference record but, to be honest, I think even 8-12 will be a major challenge. Looking long term, I am hoping, in BE standings, that we are at least 3rd in Shaka's 3rd season. Sure, I'll take the #1 spot but Nova and probably UCONN are well positioned to dominate for the near future.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on June 11, 2021, 10:43:49 AM
Not a good feeling for the program when a projection that has you 9th focuses entirely on a guy who won't be here.

9th with Garcia and Morsell sounds about right.  Gonna be REAL ugly without Garcia. 
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: MU82 on June 11, 2021, 10:51:29 AM
I know Shaka offered Dawson at Texas but I'm not sold on Dawson in Shaka's system based on what we saw last season.  Dawson and DJC are much more talented than anyone on this roster but their tendency to float in and out of games leaves me believing we can win next season with a Buzz like, "whole greater sum of our parts" year. 

I think 10-10 in is conference is realistic.  The stories I am hearing from The Al in terms of the hours the entire basketball office is working right now, and the excitement level in the building tells me something good is brewing.

Most players improve, and some improve dramatically, especially if they get to play under a superior coach who will have them better prepared and who will hold them more accountable. I would have loved to have seen Carton stay because I think he would have been first-team All-BEast, and I very much hope Garcia stays.

I'm not saying you did this, but I just don't get how so many Scoopers seem to ignore the possibility (likelihood IMHO) that athletes improve as they mature and gain experience. "We don't need them. They're Wojo guys." That's just dopey. Again, not saying this was your take, Lens.

I hope you're right about 10-10. I too think that if the right players "grow up" fast, we have a chance to be sneaky good. But that's mostly my optimistic nature talking because it's pretty hard to project how a team will do when it's filled with guys I've never seen.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 11, 2021, 10:55:08 AM
Also, Dawson Garcia was a freshman and Carton was a sophomore who only played a few games as a freshman.  Of course they had problems with consistency.  Almost all but the most talented freshmen have similar problems.  The problem that Marquette had last year wasn't Garcia's or Carton's inconsistency, it was that there wasn't a solid group of experienced players that could pick them up when they were being inconsistent. 
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: jficke13 on June 11, 2021, 10:59:32 AM
Most players improve, and some improve dramatically, especially if they get to play under a superior coach who will have them better prepared and who will hold them more accountable. I would have loved to have seen Carton stay because I think he would have been first-team All-BEast, and I very much hope Garcia stays.

I'm not saying you did this, but I just don't get how so many Scoopers seem to ignore the possibility (likelihood IMHO) that athletes improve as they mature and gain experience. "We don't need them. They're Wojo guys." That's just dopey. Again, not saying this was your take, Lens.

I hope you're right about 10-10. I too think that if the right players "grow up" fast, we have a chance to be sneaky good. But that's mostly my optimistic nature talking because it's pretty hard to project how a team will do when it's filled with guys I've never seen.

Yup. I *want* these newcomers and freshmen to show up and ball out like the Wes/Nic/Rel trio, but my realistic side says that's not likely. It could happen though, and I hope it does. I suspect even if the newcomers are better than we expect, that their relative inexperience will lead to some inconsistent play, but that's part of the deal. Like many many many people have said here: More than anything I want grinding effort and a team that's better in the Garden in March than it is in the Al in October. Everything else is gravy.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: The Lens on June 11, 2021, 11:00:20 AM
DJC will be on his 4th team in 4 years next season, that says a lot about him.   I don’t know how much he wants to buy into a program and improve.

Dawson Garcia is not on a single draft mock (the good ones are made from informed draftniks talking to NBA scouts on a daily basis) yet he has been away from team since the BET.  I guess I’m not expecting much in his maturation either. 
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: wadesworld on June 11, 2021, 11:19:08 AM
DJC will be on his 4th team in 4 years next season, that says a lot about him.   I don’t know how much he wants to buy into a program and improve.

Dawson Garcia is not on a single draft mock (the good ones are made from informed draftniks talking to NBA scouts on a daily basis) yet he has been away from team since the BET.  I guess I’m not expecting much in his maturation either.

Zion played for 3 teams in 3 years.  Guy clearly has a lack of commitment to a team.  Pels should trade him while he still has SOME trade value.

Cade Cunningham going on his 3rd team in 3 years.  Same with Jalen Suggs.  Same with Evan Mobley.  Same with Jalen Green.  Same with Jonathan Kaminga.  Same with Keon Johnson.  Frankly, I'm glad the Bucks won't be picking until the second round.  A bunch of me first guys with no commitment to the team concept.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: DFW HOYA on June 11, 2021, 12:18:01 PM
The rankings undersell Marquette and Seton Hall, and oversell St. John's (as usual). Outside of #1, #2, and DePaul, everything else is up for grabs.

Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 11, 2021, 12:34:48 PM
Zion played for 3 teams in 3 years.  Guy clearly has a lack of commitment to a team.  Pels should trade him while he still has SOME trade value.

Cade Cunningham going on his 3rd team in 3 years.  Same with Jalen Suggs.  Same with Evan Mobley.  Same with Jalen Green.  Same with Jonathan Kaminga.  Same with Keon Johnson.  Frankly, I'm glad the Bucks won't be picking until the second round.  A bunch of me first guys with no commitment to the team concept.

Comparing Carton and Garcia’s situation to Zion’s, Cunningham’s, etc., is absurd.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: wadesworld on June 11, 2021, 12:58:35 PM
Comparing Carton and Garcia’s situation to Zion’s, Cunningham’s, etc., is absurd.

So is saying someone who’s invited to the NBA Draft Combine is immature for preparing for the NBA Draft and someone who transferred schools once before deciding to play professionally is uninterested in buying into a team concept. So the point got through to you. Congrats.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: barfolomew on June 11, 2021, 01:01:33 PM
The passionate Marquette fan base finally got its long-desired head coach, Shaka Smart

I'll have to track down this author so I can yell at him/her on social media for using this moniker, which is clearly a sportswriter euphemism for "those a-holes who keep yelling at me on social media".
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: The Lens on June 11, 2021, 01:02:50 PM
Zion played for 3 teams in 3 years.  Guy clearly has a lack of commitment to a team.  Pels should trade him while he still has SOME trade value.

Cade Cunningham going on his 3rd team in 3 years.  Same with Jalen Suggs.  Same with Evan Mobley.  Same with Jalen Green.  Same with Jonathan Kaminga.  Same with Keon Johnson.  Frankly, I'm glad the Bucks won't be picking until the second round.  A bunch of me first guys with no commitment to the team concept.

If you can't see the difference between projected lottery picks going One and Done and guys who don't even have a 2nd Round Grade, I can't help you.  I get the whole bet on yourself thing but DJC hasn't spent even 9 months in his last two stops.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: wadesworld on June 11, 2021, 01:12:19 PM
If you can't see the difference between projected lottery picks going One and Done and guys who don't even have a 2nd Round Grade, I can't help you.  I get the whole bet on yourself thing but DJC hasn't spent even 9 months in his last two stops.

I’m guessing he understands the chances are high he’ll have to play in the G League or overseas. Maybe he thinks his best chance to eventually make the NBA is to be able to play basketball full time and not have to worry about school, while being paid to play basketball instead of playing for free. Doesn’t make him a selfish kid uninterested in playing team basketball.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: The Lens on June 11, 2021, 01:24:53 PM
I’m guessing he understands the chances are high he’ll have to play in the G League or overseas. Maybe he thinks his best chance to eventually make the NBA is to be able to play basketball full time and not have to worry about school, while being paid to play basketball instead of playing for free. Doesn’t make him a selfish kid uninterested in playing team basketball.

I never said it did.  My post was in reference to him coming back to MU and maturing.  I don't think that was really an option.  I fully support his choice to go elsewhere, but I'm not going to go down this whole rabbit hole of emotions about the lost 2nd year of DJC bc I don't think that was ever in the cards.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 11, 2021, 01:28:28 PM
I never said it did.  My post was in reference to him coming back to MU and maturing.  I don't think that was really an option.  I fully support his choice to go elsewhere, but I'm not going to go down this whole rabbit hole of emotions about the lost 2nd year of DJC bc I don't think that was ever in the cards.


Especially after they fired Wojo.

Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: WarriorPride68 on June 11, 2021, 02:47:21 PM
food for thought; few different scenarios on the Roster Cast feature:

51st T-Rank if Dawson returns & Morsell transfers in

60th T-Rank if Dawson returns & no Morsell

79th T-Rank if Dawson declares & Morsell transfers in

93rd T-Rank if Dawson declares & no Morsell
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: The Lens on June 11, 2021, 03:05:02 PM
Last season UGA finished 93rd.

14-12 overall, 7-11 in conference
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 11, 2021, 04:12:52 PM
The rankings undersell Marquette and Seton Hall, and oversell St. John's (as usual). Outside of #1, #2, and DePaul, everything else is up for grabs.

St. John's was picked 9th across the board last year (they finished 4th) and 10th in 2019-20 (they finished 8th). I'm not sure how that is "overselling" them.

With MU having an entirely new roster it's hard to get a true grasp on what they're going to do this year.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 11, 2021, 08:53:49 PM

Especially after they fired Wojo.

Wasn’t his plan always to just stay one year? He jumped on the Shaka train when he was announced, but I thought DJ said as much when he came to MU.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 11, 2021, 09:41:58 PM
Wasn’t his plan always to just stay one year? He jumped on the Shaka train when he was announced, but I thought DJ said as much when he came to MU.

Initially yes,  but the staff thought his tune had changed prior to Wojo getting the heave ho
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: bilsu on June 11, 2021, 09:51:08 PM
The rankings undersell Marquette and Seton Hall, and oversell St. John's (as usual). Outside of #1, #2, and DePaul, everything else is up for grabs.
St. John's coach has never had a losing season. Coaching does matter. Shaka has to prove to me that he can coach. Texas was glad to get rid of him.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: The Lens on June 12, 2021, 07:29:32 AM
St. John's coach has never had a losing season. Coaching does matter. Shaka has to prove to me that he can coach. Texas was glad to get rid of him.

Texas doesn’t give a crap about basketball.  Their brand new arena is a concerts first venue.  The entire athletic department is a football centric endeavor.  Shaka now is back where everyone is pulling in the same direction.  He’s going to the Moon 🚀🚀🚀🚀
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Herman Cain on June 12, 2021, 08:33:35 AM
St. John's coach has never had a losing season. Coaching does matter. Shaka has to prove to me that he can coach. Texas was glad to get rid of him.
Burt Reynolds couldn't get rid of Lonnie Anderson fast enough, that didn't mean she was a dog.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Scoop Snoop on June 12, 2021, 09:34:58 AM
St. John's coach has never had a losing season. Coaching does matter. Shaka has to prove to me that he can coach. Texas was glad to get rid of him.

Or what?
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Boozemon Barro on June 12, 2021, 10:35:53 AM
1st or bust.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: brewcity77 on June 12, 2021, 11:40:40 AM
Shaka has to prove to me that he can coach.

He was in the top-20 of every edition of the AP Poll released this past season, in the top-15 all but the first two polls, and in the top-10 eight times. Then he won the Big 12 Tournament. And he's had a top-40 adjusted defensive efficiency each of the past 10 years despite changing programs, personnel, and defensive systems. He's been to 8 of the last 10 NCAA Tournaments. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have to prove anything to you.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: MU82 on June 12, 2021, 12:52:58 PM
Texas doesn’t give a crap about basketball.  Their brand new arena is a concerts first venue.  The entire athletic department is a football centric endeavor.

Well, they gave enough of a crap to give huge money to steal the best coach available from an in-state, conference rival.

Quite possibly, Texas fans by-and-large don't give a crap about basketball. But somebody at Texas does, or they would have promoted an assistant and given him $300K.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: wadesworld on June 12, 2021, 06:52:41 PM
Shaka won’t prove to me he can coach until he makes a Final Four.

Oh wait…
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: bilsu on June 12, 2021, 06:57:25 PM
He was in the top-20 of every edition of the AP Poll released this past season, in the top-15 all but the first two polls, and in the top-10 eight times. Then he won the Big 12 Tournament. And he's had a top-40 adjusted defensive efficiency each of the past 10 years despite changing programs, personnel, and defensive systems. He's been to 8 of the last 10 NCAA Tournaments. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have to prove anything to you.
He has to prove to me that he can win NCAA tournament games at MU. The last coach could not do that.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: GB Warrior on June 12, 2021, 07:14:07 PM
Buckle up kids, preseason rankings are going to have a lot of this. And our team's experience levels probably support it.

I expect to see this team playing hard throughout and playing its best ball at year-end. Both are improvements over last year, but I wouldn't suggest a high ceiling.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Herman Cain on June 12, 2021, 07:26:29 PM
I keep looking at the Big East Standings to the left on this page, and outside of Nova and U-Conn I don't see much. MU has as good a chance as any other school for that #3 slot this year. Every one has had departures in that group, and MU has done as good a job as any in filling those departures with quality players. That said, just as in every year, each game will be a dog fight and possession by possession battle. That is what makes this conference so interesting and fun to watch.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Shooter McGavin on June 13, 2021, 06:11:03 AM
I keep looking at the Big East Standings to the left on this page, and outside of Nova and U-Conn I don't see much. MU has as good a chance as any other school for that #3 slot this year. Every one has had departures in that group, and MU has done as good a job as any in filling those departures with quality players. That said, just as in every year, each game will be a dog fight and possession by possession battle. That is what makes this conference so interesting and fun to watch.

Can’t say I disagree much with your opinion.  Maybe Xavier?  4-11 is a crap shoot.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: MarquetteMike1977 on June 13, 2021, 10:09:32 AM
https://archive.ph/pOjXk

1. Nova
2. UConn
3. X
4. GTown
5. Butler
6. Creighton
7. Johnnies
8. Providence
9. The Gold
10. Seton Hall
11. DePaw
New Big East helped Villanova and hurt Marquette. Having Butler’s Barry Collier on the NCAA Board with no term limits hurts Marquette. Having Markus on the NCAA Board helped Marquette. Playing well is very very important but unfortunately there are other things. Fortunately Shaka was good at developing bigs at Texas and hope Dawson comes back and Darryl  transfers and Marquette moves up and the Athletic is wrong.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: The Lens on June 13, 2021, 10:34:22 AM
Well, they gave enough of a crap to give huge money to steal the best coach available from an in-state, conference rival.

Quite possibly, Texas fans by-and-large don't give a crap about basketball. But somebody at Texas does, or they would have promoted an assistant and given him $300K.

There’s a difference between cutting that big check and having an org that 365 days a year is dedicated to making that program the best it can be.  It’s almost like the Washington Football Team winning the off season spending each year, only to finish 6-10. 

I truly believe Shaka is going to realize organizational support and commitment like he’s never seen before.  He’s the #1 priority.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 13, 2021, 10:51:30 AM
New Big East helped Villanova and hurt Marquette. Having Butler’s Barry Collier on the NCAA Board with no term limits hurts Marquette. Having Markus on the NCAA Board helped Marquette. Playing well is very very important but unfortunately there are other things. Fortunately Shaka was good at developing bigs at Texas and hope Dawson comes back and Darryl  transfers and Marquette moves up and the Athletic is wrong.

Your theory that the BE has hurt Marquette continues to make no sense.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: cheebs09 on June 13, 2021, 11:03:02 AM
How did Barry Collier negatively impact MU? MU’s biggest issue has been being mediocre the last 8 years.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Scoop Snoop on June 13, 2021, 11:29:57 AM
New Big East helped Villanova and hurt Marquette. Having Butler’s Barry Collier on the NCAA Board with no term limits hurts Marquette. Having Markus on the NCAA Board helped Marquette. Playing well is very very important but unfortunately there are other things. Fortunately Shaka was good at developing bigs at Texas and hope Dawson comes back and Darryl  transfers and Marquette moves up and the Athletic is wrong.

Care to explain what the other things are? If there were BE related issues (although I do not think that there were), we have had plenty of time to adjust to conference opponents and their strengths, etc. 
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: NCMUFan on June 13, 2021, 11:44:57 AM
My hopes for MU this season is that they are competitive for 40 minutes.
Nothing more discouraging than to have the game over by halftime and knowing the final 20 minutes are just garbage time.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Warrior Code on June 13, 2021, 12:23:52 PM
My hopes for MU this season is that they are competitive for 40 minutes.
Nothing more discouraging than to have the game over by halftime and knowing the final 20 minutes are just garbage time.

Or getting up by a dozen and still feeling like it's all about to come apart at the seams.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: NCMUFan on June 13, 2021, 12:47:49 PM
Or getting up by a dozen and still feeling like it's all about to come apart at the seams.
At least being up a dozen made it interesting.
Sometimes it ended in near coronaries but at least it wasn't a total yawn.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Shooter McGavin on June 13, 2021, 01:37:50 PM
Your theory that the BE has hurt Marquette continues to make no sense.

Agreed.   Going from Buzz to Wojo hurt MU.  If Buzz left simply because of the new Big East there may be some truth to the theory but based on all reports that was more of a smoke screen for why he left or got pushed out.

Time to climb the Big East ladder again with some hard nose defensive teams and leave the last decade behind.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on June 13, 2021, 02:37:23 PM
The configuration of the present Big East had every possible built-in advantage established for Marquette to be a regular competitor for conference championships.  It had the head coach (Buzz), it had an AD leading separation discussions (Larry Williams), it had a President involved in separation discussions (Pilarz) and it was coming off a stretch of sustained success (Sweet 16s and Elite 8s).

The unfortunate reality that Marquette is at the bottom of the conference and has contributed zero value of postseason success rests solely on the shoulders of Marquette because of bad hires, plain and simple.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 13, 2021, 02:48:37 PM
The configuration of the present Big East had every possible built-in advantage established for Marquette to be a regular competitor for conference championships.  It had the head coach (Buzz), it had an AD leading separation discussions (Larry Williams), it had a President involved in separation discussions (Pilarz) and it was coming off a stretch of sustained success (Sweet 16s and Elite 8s).

The unfortunate reality that Marquette is at the bottom of the conference and has contributed zero value of postseason success rests solely on the shoulders of Marquette because of bad hires, plain and simple.

Marquette’s at the bottom of the conference?
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: NCMUFan on June 13, 2021, 03:13:23 PM
The configuration of the present Big East had every possible built-in advantage established for Marquette to be a regular competitor for conference championships.  It had the head coach (Buzz), it had an AD leading separation discussions (Larry Williams), it had a President involved in separation discussions (Pilarz) and it was coming off a stretch of sustained success (Sweet 16s and Elite 8s).

The unfortunate reality that Marquette is at the bottom of the conference and has contributed zero value of postseason success rests solely on the shoulders of Marquette because of bad hires, plain and simple.
This is very interesting.
Losing the Hausers IMHO sealed Wojos fate at MU.  He never could recover in the time period he needed.
If Shaka had Howard and the Hausers, would he have let Howard go off with the 30+, 40+, 50+ games to pull out the wins?
Would the Hausers have been satisfied playing under Shaka and Howard?
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: MU82 on June 13, 2021, 05:22:20 PM
There’s a difference between cutting that big check and having an org that 365 days a year is dedicated to making that program the best it can be.  It’s almost like the Washington Football Team winning the off season spending each year, only to finish 6-10. 

I truly believe Shaka is going to realize organizational support and commitment like he’s never seen before.  He’s the #1 priority.

I understand what you're saying about Shaka getting total support at Marquette, and I'm glad about it. But I still don't know why a university that "doesn't give a crap" about basketball would hire the best coach available.


Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: The Lens on June 13, 2021, 09:38:55 PM
I understand what you're saying about Shaka getting total support at Marquette, and I'm glad about it. But I still don't know why a university that "doesn't give a crap" about basketball would hire the best coach available.

They care on occasion.  They do the surface level things but God in the details.   
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: brewcity77 on June 13, 2021, 09:59:35 PM
I understand what you're saying about Shaka getting total support at Marquette, and I'm glad about it. But I still don't know why a university that "doesn't give a crap" about basketball would hire the best coach available.

While I don't disagree, they did the same in 2015. Shaka was the hottest name in coaching. Whatever the reason that didn't work, hiring a massive basketball name and having it go sideways wouldn't be new for them.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Herman Cain on June 13, 2021, 11:06:16 PM
While I don't disagree, they did the same in 2015. Shaka was the hottest name in coaching. Whatever the reason that didn't work, hiring a massive basketball name and having it go sideways wouldn't be new for them.
I think Texas didn’t value the job that Rick Barnes did building their program . Their alumni have unrealistic expectations and I don’t know if Chris Beard can materially elevate the program from where it is at.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: MU82 on June 14, 2021, 07:53:04 AM
I think Texas didn’t value the job that Rick Barnes did building their program . Their alumni have unrealistic expectations and I don’t know if Chris Beard can materially elevate the program from where it is at.

Agree about Barnes.

Disagree about Beard. Texas will be a force to be reckoned with.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Warrior Code on June 14, 2021, 09:00:38 AM
At least being up a dozen made it interesting.
Sometimes it ended in near coronaries but at least it wasn't a total yawn.

I theory, yes, but I don't think I actually agree with that. Admittedly, I haven't been able to watch as many games as I normally would have, but I really haven't enjoyed many games the past couple years - win or lose. The losses always felt inevitable and the wins often felt like we were desperately trying to give the game away but merely ran out of time. Very unsatisfying either way.

Here's hoping for a different experience in the coming years.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: willie warrior on June 14, 2021, 09:12:59 AM
This is very interesting.
Losing the Hausers IMHO sealed Wojos fate at MU.  He never could recover in the time period he needed.
If Shaka had Howard and the Hausers, would he have let Howard go off with the 30+, 40+, 50+ games to pull out the wins?
Would the Hausers have been satisfied playing under Shaka and Howard?
Absolutey. The major f%#k up by Wojo was Hausergate, which broke the camels back
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: NCMUFan on June 14, 2021, 09:16:17 AM
I theory, yes, but I don't think I actually agree with that. Admittedly, I haven't been able to watch as many games as I normally would have, but I really haven't enjoyed many games the past couple years - win or lose. The losses always felt inevitable and the wins often felt like we were desperately trying to give the game away but merely ran out of time. Very unsatisfying either way.

Here's hoping for a different experience in the coming years.
It was tough to watch the team last season.  I guess that what makes us true blue fans.  Just disjointed.  They did the best they could.  COVID certainly made things weird.  But can't use that as an excuse as every team had to play under the same conditions.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: MarquetteMike1977 on June 15, 2021, 01:34:47 PM
Old Big East 8 Years 8 Tourneys 9 Big Dance Wins. New Big East 8 Years 2 Tourneys 0 Big Dance Wins. Why is this
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 15, 2021, 01:52:05 PM
Old Big East 8 Years 8 Tourneys 9 Big Dance Wins. New Big East 8 Years 2 Tourneys 0 Big Dance Wins. Why is this


Primarily a poor coach.  Let's not overthink this.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Skip Intro on June 15, 2021, 01:58:48 PM
Old Big East 8 Years 8 Tourneys 9 Big Dance Wins. New Big East 8 Years 2 Tourneys 0 Big Dance Wins. Why is this

"Old" vs. "New" Big East wasn't the cause of only 2 tourney trips in 8 years.  If anything, it should be easier to get into the tourney now. 

Now, you could make an argument that the Old BE was such a tough conference that all teams entered the tourney well-primed for competition.  Then again the recent sample size (for MU, at least) is so small that I don't know if that theory would hold up, particularly with Nova's success. 

I suspect the true answer to "Why is this" has a lot more to do with one man's system than conference membership.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 15, 2021, 02:02:54 PM
Old Big East 8 Years 8 Tourneys 9 Big Dance Wins. New Big East 8 Years 2 Tourneys 0 Big Dance Wins. Why is this

Top Reasons for 2/8 years

1.  Bad coach hire, had high floor but low ceiling.

2. RPI & Covid, the 2018 year we would've been in using NET & Covid took a year we were a lock. 4/8 is much better.

3. Not getting old, Burton leaves, Duane leaves, Henry leaves, Haani leaves, both Hausers leave, Bailey leaves, everyone expected to be a key player left before we could get to the next tier.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Dawson Rental on June 15, 2021, 03:11:12 PM
All true, but I as referring specifically to this coming season at Marquette. A season saver transfer would, I think, be probably be looking at only one year. Once Shaka has established MU as a solid, competitive team sure, he can sell players on his success of getting players into the NBA. My point is simply that this is probably not the best year for his helping a player getting into the NBA.

When is there a better opportunity than with a young team?  Great chance to lead the way.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: MarquetteMike1977 on June 15, 2021, 04:08:32 PM
Old Big East 8 Years 8 Tourneys 9 Big Dance Wins. New Big East 8 Years 2 Tourneys 0 Big Dance Wins. Why is this
Our Coaching Job was not as in demand when we joined the New Big East. But our Marquette Coaching job is in Demand now.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: MarquetteMike1977 on June 15, 2021, 04:10:24 PM
Old Big East 8 Years 8 Tourneys 9 Big Dance Wins. New Big East 8 Years 2 Tourneys 0 Big Dance Wins. Why is this

We should not change or switch conferences. Am not blaming it on the conference, am saying the only other option would have been to accept and not decline ESPN’s crappy deal to remain with CUSE , UConn, Cincy eight to ten years ago in a hybrid conference. Add some crappy football teams. Agree It would have been a crappier conference but “We would of had more power within it” Agree  that ship has sailed and agree we should remain in the New Big East.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: MarquetteMike1977 on June 15, 2021, 04:12:21 PM
Old Big East 8 Years 8 Tourneys 9 Big Dance Wins. New Big East 8 Years 2 Tourneys 0 Big Dance Wins. Why is this
Alright it had nothing to do with the conference change.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: fjm on June 15, 2021, 04:16:06 PM
Alright it had nothing to do with the conference change.

You crack me up man. Haha.
Responded to your own question 3 different times in 4 minutes. Haha. Keep it up.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: MU82 on June 15, 2021, 07:58:04 PM
We should not change or switch conferences. Am not blaming it on the conference, am saying the only other option would have been to accept and not decline ESPN’s crappy deal to remain with CUSE , UConn, Cincy eight to ten years ago in a hybrid conference. Add some crappy football teams. Agree It would have been a crappier conference but “We would of had more power within it” Agree  that ship has sailed and agree we should remain in the New Big East.

Dribble.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Scoop Snoop on June 15, 2021, 09:21:02 PM
When is there a better opportunity than with a young team?  Great chance to lead the way.

Agree with the being the star on a young team, but I think Shaka will be too busy getting the team to understand his system and also with 5 freshman coming in, he's got his hands full. That's all I'm saying. Season #2 for Shaka he should be well positioned to both have his system in place and feature a star, NBA grade player in it. Possible this year? Sure, but to repeat- I do not think this is the best year for an NBA bound player on Marquette's team to raise his profile.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: NCMUFan on June 16, 2021, 10:47:43 AM
IMHO it seemed Buzz was let down with the breakup of the old BEAST and the formation of the new.  Maybe not up to what it needed to be to get Buzz motivated to perform at the level he had in the old BEAST.  Perhaps one of the reasons he bolted to Virginia Tech and the ACC?  In Buzz's eyes, at VT back in the premier college BB conference and a major spot light?
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: The Lens on June 16, 2021, 10:56:09 AM
IMHO it seemed Buzz was let down with the breakup of the old BEAST and the formation of the new.  Maybe not up to what it needed to be get Buzz motivated to perform at the level he had in the old BEAST.  Perhaps one of the reasons he bolted to Virginia Tech and the ACC?  In Buzz's eyes, at VT back in the premier college BB conference and a major spot light?

 I don't really blame him.  He had just gone 14-4, 14-4 in the SEC Football of college hoops.  Can't fault him for worrying that he was headed to JV.  Let's face it Nova was not Nova in 2013 and the cream of the Big East was leaving and being back filled with solid programs from the A-10 & Mo Valley.  It has turned out great (despite Gtown and St. John's struggles) but I think we all probably had some doubts. 
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: MU82 on June 16, 2021, 11:06:42 AM
I don't really blame him.  He had just gone 14-4, 14-4 in the SEC Football of college hoops.  Can't fault him for worrying that he was headed to JV.  Let's face it Nova was not Nova in 2013 and the cream of the Big East was leaving and being back filled with solid programs from the A-10 & Mo Valley.  It has turned out great (despite Gtown and St. John's struggles) but I think we all probably had some doubts.

I honestly can't remember if I had doubts or not, but what I did know was that it was the only viable solution for Marquette, so I was all-in on it.

I think what a couple others have theorized about the Big East thing being a smokescreen for Buzz -- who actually bolted because he was p-o-ed at MU leadership -- makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 16, 2021, 11:16:22 AM
I don't really blame him.  He had just gone 14-4, 14-4 in the SEC Football of college hoops.  Can't fault him for worrying that he was headed to JV.  Let's face it Nova was not Nova in 2013 and the cream of the Big East was leaving and being back filled with solid programs from the A-10 & Mo Valley.  It has turned out great (despite Gtown and St. John's struggles) but I think we all probably had some doubts.

Nova was 4 years from a final four and 3 years from a 2 seed. Georgetown had just been co big East champions, Xavier was a huge get that was more than solid from the A10, that's basically saying if we plugged in Gonzaga they'd be a solid program from the WCC, Butler was 2 years removed from back to back finals appearances (and had the top up and coming coach at the time). I had my doubts on Creighton once they'd lose Doug along with PC, SHU, SJU, DPU all struggling at the time but it was far from a conference for him to thumb his nose at, especially after struggling in his lone year at it.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 16, 2021, 11:25:36 AM
I don't really blame him.  He had just gone 14-4, 14-4 in the SEC Football of college hoops.  Can't fault him for worrying that he was headed to JV.  Let's face it Nova was not Nova in 2013 and the cream of the Big East was leaving and being back filled with solid programs from the A-10 & Mo Valley.  It has turned out great (despite Gtown and St. John's struggles) but I think we all probably had some doubts. 


Is going from one of the top teams in the new Big East to a middling, also ran in the ACC really a good move though?  Conference affiliation is important, but it's not everything.

My guess is that if Buzz were happy with MU's leadership, he would have stayed.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Dawson Rental on June 16, 2021, 12:53:00 PM

Is going from one of the top teams in the new Big East to a middling, also ran in the ACC really a good move though?  Conference affiliation is important, but it's not everything.

My guess is that if Buzz were happy with MU's leadership, he would have stayed.

Agree.  If Virginia Tech was such a draw for Buzz, why would he have left there as well?  Particularly after they pretty much let him write his own contract with them.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: NCMUFan on June 16, 2021, 02:49:58 PM
It probably wasn't a single factor but the sum of them all.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Herman Cain on June 16, 2021, 03:19:42 PM

Is going from one of the top teams in the new Big East to a middling, also ran in the ACC really a good move though?  Conference affiliation is important, but it's not everything.

My guess is that if Buzz were happy with MU's leadership, he would have stayed.
I agree with this analysis.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: NCMUFan on June 16, 2021, 03:37:29 PM
So you don't believe Buzz felt any pressure regarding job security?
Do you believe the players that Buzz would of retained or gained would have provided him future success at MU?
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 16, 2021, 03:45:42 PM
So you don't believe Buzz felt any pressure regarding job security?
Do you believe the players that Buzz would of retained or gained would have provided him future success at MU?

Well idk who we would've added in the following classes but it comes down to could he have worked with Burton, JJJ, Duane and Fischer better than Wojo did. And would Shayok and Hill have both trended the same way? I tend to believe he would not have done better with the 13 class or Sandy. Shayok and Hill probably end up the same. Noskowiak (if he ends up here) becomes yet another insane Buzz recruit.

Who knows what Juco or transfer gems Buzz gets or if he closes the deal with Stone.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Herman Cain on June 16, 2021, 04:12:49 PM
Well idk who we would've added in the following classes but it comes down to could he have worked with Burton, JJJ, Duane and Fischer better than Wojo did. And would Shayok and Hill have both trended the same way? I tend to believe he would not have done better with the 13 class or Sandy. Shayok and Hill probably end up the same. Noskowiak (if he ends up here) becomes yet another insane Buzz recruit.

Who knows what Juco or transfer gems Buzz gets or if he closes the deal with Stone.
Lets say he does the same with the 13 class <and was able to keep McKay, and Shayok and Hill show up. That is a pretty good lineup.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: dad's couch on June 16, 2021, 04:18:19 PM
Buzz wanted out. He used the break up of the Big East as an excuse. Remember he was connected with the S. Florida job. I thought it was crazy when I heard that but it turned out he was interested. He ended up at VT because Cronin is a good friend and the Cincy AD just got hired there. A con man.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on June 16, 2021, 04:31:57 PM
Well idk who we would've added in the following classes but it comes down to could he have worked with Burton, JJJ, Duane and Fischer better than Wojo did. And would Shayok and Hill have both trended the same way? I tend to believe he would not have done better with the 13 class or Sandy. Shayok and Hill probably end up the same. Noskowiak (if he ends up here) becomes yet another insane Buzz recruit.

Who knows what Juco or transfer gems Buzz gets or if he closes the deal with Stone.

MU was also a finalist (and maybe a lean) with Charles Matthews who was a late February commit, supposedly due to getting his academics in order.

This is just me spitballing this one but I always thought this was the last straw for Buzz. With Pilarz and Larry Williams gone, Buzz supposedly went to Wild and Cords and asked a for a return to the previous academic standards, and they told him wait for the new regime. Cal swooped in with Streets and said Buzz is gone, the NBE is weak, etc.  I think this was actually when Buzz threw in the towel. Things that were bad, then went to worse within the program. MU didn’t win a game after Matthews committed to UK.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: harryp on June 24, 2021, 11:24:36 PM
I think that if Garcia was planning to return we would know by now.
Title: Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
Post by: bilsu on June 25, 2021, 02:47:22 PM
I think that if Garcia was planning to return we would know by now.
I felt he was not returning to college when he did not put his name in the transfer portal. I am not saying he would not return to MU in the end. It just makes sense that with a new coach, you would explore your options. In my mind Garcia coming back was never an option, because he is done with college.