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Author Topic: What's the word on Garcia?  (Read 162161 times)

Pakuni

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #925 on: July 09, 2021, 02:19:28 PM »
Gentlemen as I've said before I live in Champaign -Urbana and have been a booster for Illinois athletics for many years.On Tuesday July 6 the Athletic Department held a huge cocktail party info session for All local businesses and boosters on NIL.I attended the meeting and the Informed people I know were discussing the packages that were being put together for Garcia and Kofi.
   In my opinion between the transfer portal and NIL we are now in the WILD WILD WEST.

This is explicitly outlawed by Illinois' NIL bill.

A student-athlete may not earn compensation in exchange for the student-athlete's athletic ability or  participation in intercollegiate athletics or sports competition or agreement or willingness to attend a postsecondary educational institution.

No booster, third party licensee, or any other individual or entity, shall provide or directly or indirectly arrange for a third party to provide compensation to a prospective or current student-athlete or enter into, or directly or indirectly arrange for a third party to enter into, a publicity rights agreement as an inducement for the student-athlete to attend or enroll in a specific institution or group of institutions. Compensation for a student-athlete's name, image, likeness, or voice shall not be conditioned on   athletic performance or attendance at a particular postsecondary educational institution.[/b]

https://ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&SessionId=110&GA=102&DocTypeId=SB&DocNum=2338&GAID=16&LegID=134992&SpecSess=&Session=

I'd suggest, as a Warrior fan, you report what you've witnessed to state authorities as well as the NCAA.

Vander Blue Man Group

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #926 on: July 09, 2021, 02:26:01 PM »
Sounds like some kind of NIL "salary cap" is needed.

JakeBarnes

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #927 on: July 09, 2021, 02:29:06 PM »
"Larry, I'm on DuckTales."

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The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #928 on: July 09, 2021, 02:53:02 PM »
This is explicitly outlawed by Illinois' NIL bill.

A student-athlete may not earn compensation in exchange for the student-athlete's athletic ability or  participation in intercollegiate athletics or sports competition or agreement or willingness to attend a postsecondary educational institution.

No booster, third party licensee, or any other individual or entity, shall provide or directly or indirectly arrange for a third party to provide compensation to a prospective or current student-athlete or enter into, or directly or indirectly arrange for a third party to enter into, a publicity rights agreement as an inducement for the student-athlete to attend or enroll in a specific institution or group of institutions. Compensation for a student-athlete's name, image, likeness, or voice shall not be conditioned on   athletic performance or attendance at a particular postsecondary educational institution.[/b]

https://ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&SessionId=110&GA=102&DocTypeId=SB&DocNum=2338&GAID=16&LegID=134992&SpecSess=&Session=

I'd suggest, as a Warrior fan, you report what you've witnessed to state authorities as well as the NCAA.

<wink wink>
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The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #929 on: July 09, 2021, 02:56:34 PM »
Sounds like some kind of NIL "salary cap" is needed.

Good idea!  As long as the Student Athletes Union agrees to one, that would be great!

Oh wait…

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2015/08/18/sports/ncaafootball/nlrb-says-northwestern-football-players-cannot-unionize.amp.html
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The Equalizer

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #930 on: July 09, 2021, 03:04:43 PM »
You’re calling people naive and with stupid arguments yet you’re trafficking in opinion pieces and unsubstantiated rumors, and you’ve shown no real understanding of the nuances of NIL and what is actually allowed.  Flatly saying “there are no limitations” is just pure ignorance and hysteria.  You’re just vaguely assuming the absolute worst, with no hard facts to back it up, and using it to push a narrative that everything is forever ruined.

How is this any different than people vaguely assuming the best, with no hard facts to back it up, and using it to push a narrative that this is at worst no big deal, and at best hugely positive for MU? 

While there are no hard facts to back anything up, it's not hard to make some basic assumptions based on potential audience sizes.

I think there are four relatively safe assumptions we can make right now:

1. There will be an advantage to schools with large student body and alumni populations.

This is immediately applicable to an athlete's ability to monetize their social network. 

Compare Wisconsin to Marquette
--Living alumni:  UW has 459,000 living alumni compared to MU's 110,000. 
--Total enrollment: UW has 43,800 compared to MU's 11,300. 
--Undergraduate enrollment: UW has 33,900 undergrads compared to MU's 8,000. 
--Employees:  UW has 21,000 compared to MU's 2,900.

Assuming the two schools have an equivalent ability to activate those audiences to follow their school's athletes, UW has a huge built-in advantage

Since social media monetization is heavily based on audience size, an athlete is going to have more financial incentive to attend UW than MU, all other things being equal.



2. There will be an additional advantage to athletes who attend schools with large, state-wide followings that transcend alumni and student audiences.

Think MU versus Wisconsin.  Wisconsin's avid following extends well beyond the student/alumni community.  Granted, MU (and similar private schools) has a similar audience, it's going to be much smaller. People unaffiliated with the university still follow UW sports because it's a matter of state pride.  Think about how many threads here complaining about their HS buddy who goes to UW LaCrosse and has nothing to do with Madison, but is still an avld Badger fan. 

The good news here is that with the exception of UConn, every other Big East school will be in the same boat as MU.

The bad news is that UConn will have the same kind of permanent structural advantage over every other team in the Big East that Wisconsin has over MU.  First, they have the largest alumni/student community (230,000 living alumni, 28,000 total enrollment, 18,000 undergrads. 9,400 employees).  Second, they're the only school in the conference that has the state-wide affinity (ala Wisconsin, tOSU, Illinois, Nebraska, etc.).

3. There will be an advantage to athletes attending schools in larger media markets.
More people --> larger potential reach, larger potential influence. 

I don't think it's reasonable to use past performance to dismiss the future potential of DePaul, St. Johns, Seton Hall, etc. It's a new competitive world, and over time, athletes in NYC, Chicago, etc. are going to figure out how to monetize those audiences, and there will be a larger potential in those markets than in Milwaukee, Omaha, Indianapolis, etc.


4. There will be an advantage to schools with deep-pocketed boosters who are willing to spend on athlete NIL
Complete unknown at this point--nobody knows where MU falls relative to other schools nationally or within the Big East. 



I'm not suggesting here that MU should close up shop because we can't compete. At the same time, those who are running around suggesting that this is nothing but good for MU and that we'll dominate in the new era are probably not taking all the facts into account.

I think we're in a good place relative to college basketball as a whole, but we're not going to start out at the top.  I also think there's a real possibility that the typical Big Ten, ACC, SEC, Pac10, and Big 12 team is going to have significant and permanent structural advantages when it comes to NIL.

StillAWarrior

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #931 on: July 09, 2021, 03:15:11 PM »
This is explicitly outlawed by Illinois' NIL bill.

A student-athlete may not earn compensation in exchange for the student-athlete's athletic ability or  participation in intercollegiate athletics or sports competition or agreement or willingness to attend a postsecondary educational institution.

No booster, third party licensee, or any other individual or entity, shall provide or directly or indirectly arrange for a third party to provide compensation to a prospective or current student-athlete or enter into, or directly or indirectly arrange for a third party to enter into, a publicity rights agreement as an inducement for the student-athlete to attend or enroll in a specific institution or group of institutions. Compensation for a student-athlete's name, image, likeness, or voice shall not be conditioned on   athletic performance or attendance at a particular postsecondary educational institution.[/b]

https://ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&SessionId=110&GA=102&DocTypeId=SB&DocNum=2338&GAID=16&LegID=134992&SpecSess=&Session=

I'd suggest, as a Warrior fan, you report what you've witnessed to state authorities as well as the NCAA.

It's not going to be conditioned on attending a specific institution. But it's reasonable to think that a Milwaukee-area business is probably going to determine that it makes sense to sponsor an athlete that is attending school and playing in the Milwaukee area. Sponsorships will be year-to-year. What I imagine will happen is that certain schools will develop a reputation for having lots of opportunities for student athletes. Official deals will not be reached before committing to a school, but kids who commit to tOSU will know that there is money available when they get to Columbus and they'll probably have a pretty good idea how much.
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Shooter McGavin

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #932 on: July 09, 2021, 03:18:51 PM »
Correct.

Uncle Rico

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #933 on: July 09, 2021, 03:26:31 PM »
Adapt and thrive.

Shake your fist and get left behind.

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Billy Hoyle

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #934 on: July 09, 2021, 03:49:05 PM »
This is explicitly outlawed by Illinois' NIL bill.

A student-athlete may not earn compensation in exchange for the student-athlete's athletic ability or  participation in intercollegiate athletics or sports competition or agreement or willingness to attend a postsecondary educational institution.

No booster, third party licensee, or any other individual or entity, shall provide or directly or indirectly arrange for a third party to provide compensation to a prospective or current student-athlete or enter into, or directly or indirectly arrange for a third party to enter into, a publicity rights agreement as an inducement for the student-athlete to attend or enroll in a specific institution or group of institutions. Compensation for a student-athlete's name, image, likeness, or voice shall not be conditioned on   athletic performance or attendance at a particular postsecondary educational institution.[/b]

https://ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&SessionId=110&GA=102&DocTypeId=SB&DocNum=2338&GAID=16&LegID=134992&SpecSess=&Session=

I'd suggest, as a Warrior fan, you report what you've witnessed to state authorities as well as the NCAA.

my guess is the "agreement" was along the lines of "if you attend Illinois you can get up to $XXX amount in NIL deals. Illinois may have deals lined up and a pot of many that can go to Garcia or other recruits but aren't earmarked for him. That's how you get around the rules.
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Shooter McGavin

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #935 on: July 09, 2021, 03:51:25 PM »
Adapt and thrive.

Shake your fist and get left behind.

The train has left the station

That’s right. MU alums with businesses better pony up or we die on the vine.

PointWarrior

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #936 on: July 09, 2021, 04:05:01 PM »
Don't listen to me, read what Frank Martin had to say:

Throw out the rule book on what you can or can’t do in recruiting players, Martin says.

“You usually have a big black area, big white area, and narrow gray area,” Martin said. “The way this has been put together is it’s a narrow black area, narrow white area, and huge gray area. The way this is rolling right now, we should just throw all the rules away and go get players. Go get players, I don’t care what you do, and let them profit off their name, image and likeness and let someone give them 10 grand for every year they are in school. It’s buck wild right now. I’m all for people making money but as a university we are now allowed to be involved. …



You’re calling people naive and with stupid arguments yet you’re trafficking in opinion pieces and unsubstantiated rumors, and you’ve shown no real understanding of the nuances of NIL and what is actually allowed.  Flatly saying “there are no limitations” is just pure ignorance and hysteria.  You’re just vaguely assuming the absolute worst, with no hard facts to back it up, and using it to push a narrative that everything is forever ruined.

PointWarrior

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #937 on: July 09, 2021, 04:11:15 PM »
and where do you think NIL money is coming from?

boosters - by appearance fees, use of image, promotion of their business, you name it - there are no rules other than it cannot be to guarantee attendance of a school - who will prove that or enforce that?

essentially what SMU football got the death penalty for and Reggie Bush at USC is now encouraged...

not sure why every thinks this is all just players innocently leveraging IG followers for advertising cash...



Dawson did not get a million dollars from a booster to attend UNC.

Dawson may believe that he could earn up to a million dollars in NIL from various sources by attending UNC and I'm sure UNC did nothing to dissuade him of that belief.

WhiteTrash

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #938 on: July 09, 2021, 04:20:08 PM »
Dan Lambert, Miami booster and paying $500K+ to football players:

"I'm not looking to profit from this," Lambert said. "I want to try to bring people together and make our team better. I've got too many Gator and Seminole friends that have been s----ing on me for the last 20 years. I want to reverse it."

Galway Eagle

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #939 on: July 09, 2021, 04:24:30 PM »
Dan Lambert, Miami booster and paying $500K+ to football players:

"I'm not looking to profit from this," Lambert said. "I want to try to bring people together and make our team better. I've got too many Gator and Seminole friends that have been s----ing on me for the last 20 years. I want to reverse it."

But how long is that sustainable for? I mean these people didn't get where they are by making horrible investments...
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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #940 on: July 09, 2021, 04:29:25 PM »
and where do you think NIL money is coming from?

Right now, for Dawson? Nowhere. In the near future, probably from a variety of sources including social media, Jumpman, local businesses, and yes, boosters.

As fun as it is to imagine boosters as villains with twirly mustaches handing over millions of dollars in old timey bank bags to players with no expected ROI except playing for their alma mater, that's not what the reality is. Most NIL money will be in small amounts here and there and the larger contracts will mostly be from legitimate businesses expecting a legitimate return on their investment. Yes, there will be some bad actors. I hope the NCAA is proactive about them but they've proven time again to be one of the most reactive organizations in history.

At the end of the day, there are only 13 scholarships per team and only 1 ball per game. With those limitations and the mass amount of basketball talent available, I don't think the playing field will skew anymore than it already has. I think this will actually be great for college basketball as I think it will lead to more players returning for multiple years of college instead of going overseas or to the g-league to chase a paycheck.

Moreover, NIL is the right thing to do. That trumps all other arguments.
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bilsu

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #941 on: July 09, 2021, 04:31:42 PM »
It's not going to be conditioned on attending a specific institution. But it's reasonable to think that a Milwaukee-area business is probably going to determine that it makes sense to sponsor an athlete that is attending school and playing in the Milwaukee area. Sponsorships will be year-to-year. What I imagine will happen is that certain schools will develop a reputation for having lots of opportunities for student athletes. Official deals will not be reached before committing to a school, but kids who commit to tOSU will know that there is money available when they get to Columbus and they'll probably have a pretty good idea how much.
There are probably more Badger fans in Milwaukee than there are MU fans, so I do not think this holds true.
However, Badger football players are going to reduce the value of Badger basketball players when it comes to NIL. The problem I see (which does not make it true) is that only a select number of players are going to benefit from this. The Badger quarterback is going to get way more money than the Badger tackle.  In the end the NIL is mostly going to benefit players who are going to make a lot of money playing pro ball. It will do little or nothing to benefit 90% of the athletes.

Pakuni

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #942 on: July 09, 2021, 04:43:29 PM »
But how long is that sustainable for? I mean these people didn't get where they are by making horrible investments...

Exactly.
These arguments seem to assume there's a limitless supply of heretofore unused sports marketing dollars out there that companies just can't wait to spend on no-name college athletes. Or that boosters have been sitting on piles of cash and now intend to spend millions of dollars every year to ensure that their favorite college basketball team has a great bench.
Guys ... Nike or Coke or Chevy isn't going to direct significant portions of its marketing money away from where it's going now, i.e. the teams and pros, to invest in Wisconsin basketball players.

« Last Edit: July 09, 2021, 04:52:06 PM by Pakuni »

Uncle Rico

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #943 on: July 09, 2021, 04:49:58 PM »
Don't listen to me, read what Frank Martin had to say:

Throw out the rule book on what you can or can’t do in recruiting players, Martin says.

“You usually have a big black area, big white area, and narrow gray area,” Martin said. “The way this has been put together is it’s a narrow black area, narrow white area, and huge gray area. The way this is rolling right now, we should just throw all the rules away and go get players. Go get players, I don’t care what you do, and let them profit off their name, image and likeness and let someone give them 10 grand for every year they are in school. It’s buck wild right now. I’m all for people making money but as a university we are now allowed to be involved. …

I feel terrible for millionaire basketball coach Frank Martin.  He’s in my thoughts and prayers
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The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #944 on: July 09, 2021, 04:55:13 PM »
I mean why would I care what Frank Martin says about this?  Clearly biased.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

MU82

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #945 on: July 09, 2021, 05:27:08 PM »
I feel terrible for millionaire basketball coach Frank Martin.  He’s in my thoughts and prayers

Yep, the millionaires want to protect their millions. What else is new?

Look, the NCAA could have worked with the feds to get something done; instead, they resisted this for 2+ years while states made their own laws. Typical.

So for now, these are uncharted waters. There's gonna be a lot of craziness, but eventually guidelines will be implemented.

I am glad the people who make college athletes possible -- the college athletes -- finally have a chance to participate in this most capitalist venture.
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CTWarrior

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #946 on: July 09, 2021, 05:39:57 PM »
Yep, good for the players ... and it's about time. Everybody else has been getting rich on their backs for generations.

Who is everybody else that is getting rich besides the coaches?  Most athletic departments lose money, don't they?  I don't begrudge the players a dime and this is a good way to do it since the schools don't have to pony up the money, which should help keep the smaller schools in D-1.   But thinking logically, I would expect that this would further separate the haves from the have nots, which is not a good thing for the sport of college basketball, IMHO.  But what is right and what is best for the sport do not have to align, I suppose.
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The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #947 on: July 09, 2021, 05:54:16 PM »
Who is everybody else that is getting rich besides the coaches?  Most athletic departments lose money, don't they?  I don't begrudge the players a dime and this is a good way to do it since the schools don't have to pony up the money, which should help keep the smaller schools in D-1.   But thinking logically, I would expect that this would further separate the haves from the have nots, which is not a good thing for the sport of college basketball, IMHO.  But what is right and what is best for the sport do not have to align, I suppose.

The haves have never really cared about the have nots. And that has always been part of the problem.
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JWags85

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #948 on: July 09, 2021, 06:31:45 PM »
I mean why would I care what Frank Martin says about this?  Clearly biased.

Clearly biased, also notoriously old school and change resistant, which hasn’t exactly helped him on the recruiting trail the last 5 or so years.  Also clearly not educated or studied on the new NLI legislation or what it means.  The last person that should be leaned on as an expert here

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #949 on: July 09, 2021, 06:34:38 PM »
Clearly biased, also notoriously old school and change resistant, which hasn’t exactly helped him on the recruiting trail the last 5 or so years.  Also clearly not educated or studied on the new NLI legislation or what it means.  The last person that should be leaned on as an expert here

Alex I’m a going with - What’s a Chico’s?

 

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