What's the word on Garcia?

[avid1010]

And paid what, then if he does not show improvement become another Vander Blue.

What do you think Vander would have accomplished in his career if he would have stayed another year that he didn't accomplish by leaving a year eaerly?

[BCHoopster]

Maybe have a big year and get drafted. All I know leaving early did not help him since he was not drafted.  Played well in the G league, but only got a cup of coffee in the show.  Same thing that might happen to Garcia. 

[Shooter McGavin]

This isn't a black and white issue.  Lots of grey areas.  One side is talking like every player with a sliver of hope for an NBA career should go g-league to make the their 50 grand and toil in anonymity and concentrate on basketball and the other side is saying go to college and have built in marketing of their brand due to actual fan bases and concentrate on basketball (while going to a few classes).  Both sides have their appeal to these athletes and should.  There is no right answer.

Both have the advantage of hanging with their peers, working on their games and free travel and hotels. There really isn't much difference except for a few thousand dollars that won't do anything toward their eventual personal and family wealth.

Both sides of the argument are right in their own way. 

[BCHoopster]

Agreed, total grey area.  At MU, Ellenson right decision, multi millionaire, Vander should have played another year in college, maybe he would have gotten drafted, then again maybe not.  Garcia we will see, as well as Carton. Carton has the athleticism to play in the NBA.

[MU82]

This isn't a black and white issue.  Lots of grey areas.  One side is talking like every player with a sliver of hope for an NBA career should go g-league to make the their 50 grand and toil in anonymity and concentrate on basketball and the other side is saying go to college and have built in marketing of their brand due to actual fan bases and concentrate on basketball (while going to a few classes).  Both sides have their appeal to these athletes and should.  There is no right answer.

Both have the advantage of hanging with their peers, working on their games and free travel and hotels. There really isn't much difference except for a few thousand dollars that won't do anything toward their eventual personal and family wealth.

Both sides of the argument are right in their own way.

The "right" answer is for the athlete to do what he and his family thinks is best.

[JWags85]

Maybe have a big year and get drafted. All I know leaving early did not help him since he was not drafted.  Played well in the G league, but only got a cup of coffee in the show.  Same thing that might happen to Garcia.

With all due respect, you don't seem to have any sort of grasp on the reality of the current NBA and player development paths.  As others have mentioned, not only has it come a LONG way since the D League, it's come miles and changed immensely since Vander graduated.  Wes was a fairly unique situation at the time, being an undrafted rookie into a NBA contract.  Now that happens all the time.

If you are anywhere close to the NBA, the only person who benefits from going back to college for another year is the fans of your program.  You grow much more as a player training every day, not having to worry about class, and playing daily against other pros.  Not practices against much less talented teammates and a non con games against teams of guys who will have an office job when their eligibility expires.

[lawdog77]

With all due respect, you don't seem to have any sort of grasp on the reality of the current NBA and player development paths.  As others have mentioned, not only has it come a LONG way since the D League, it's come miles and changed immensely since Vander graduated.  Wes was a fairly unique situation at the time, being an undrafted rookie into a NBA contract.  Now that happens all the time.

If you are anywhere close to the NBA, the only person who benefits from going back to college for another year is the fans of your program. You grow much more as a player training every day, not having to worry about class, and playing daily against other pros.  Not practices against much less talented teammates and a non con games against teams of guys who will have an office job when their eligibility expires.

And with all due respect, 30 players who returned to school last year were drafted. 12 in the first round. Like others have said, there's no one perfect path to doing this.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Its depressing that professional basketball is sucking the life blood out of college ball by paying the most talented kids to drop out of School after a year. It's really sickening. How can there be an endless amount of openings on professional team rosters? For most of us our college years were some of the greatest of our lives - the friendships, the classes, the parties and campus activities. I feel sorry for drop outs who won't have these memories.

[avid1010]

Maybe have a big year and get drafted. All I know leaving early did not help him since he was not drafted.  Played well in the G league, but only got a cup of coffee in the show.  Same thing that might happen to Garcia.

Maybe he would have blown out his knee.  Maybe had a terrible year.  Maybe a slightly better year and still not draft material. 

Given how hard he seems to have worked and still come up a bit short...I think he may have been right to leave...his stock was never going to be higher. 

He obviously could have made a solid living playing overseas if he had chosen to do so during his prime.  He chased his dreams and put his money where his mouth is more than I ever have.

I don't see Garcia and Vander as good comparisons at all.

[avid1010]

FIFY- Its depressing that professional basketball is sucking the life blood out of college ball by paying the most talented kids to drop out of School after a year. It's really sickening. How can there be an endless amount of openings on professional team rosters? For most of us our college years were some of the greatest of our lives - the friendships, the classes, the parties and campus activities. I feel sorry for drop outs who won't have these memories.

[Uncle Rico]

Its depressing that professional basketball is sucking the life blood out of college ball by paying the most talented kids to drop out of School after a year. It's really sickening. How can there be an endless amount of openings on professional team rosters? For most of us our college years were some of the greatest of our lives - the friendships, the classes, the parties and campus activities. I feel sorry for drop outs who won't have these memories.

For some people, college blows. 

[swoopem]

Its depressing that professional basketball is sucking the life blood out of college ball by paying the most talented kids to drop out of School after a year. It's really sickening. How can there be an endless amount of openings on professional team rosters? For most of us our college years were some of the greatest of our lives - the friendships, the classes, the parties and campus activities. I feel sorry for drop outs who won't have these memories.

The classes? Nerd!

[Dr. Blackheart]

Let's add a little dose of reality here.

It was no fun being a student and student athlete during the past 1.5 years. Playing in front of no one. Under lock down in your rooms. Restricted on open gym and weight room access. No social life. A coach change.

Let's also add some G League reality. Long bus rides to god awful cities. Crappy food options. Low salaries unless Select where you now pay taxes and have to dip into your own pockets for home living expenses like rent, food, phone and insurance. Hoffman Estates, Walnut Creek and Cleveland may be the most exciting cities.

For this elite group, the Select designation now offers a more attractive path if earned.  Low six figures, early identification for promotion to the parent, a chance to work on their game 100%, especially if school is not your thing.

To me fwiw, this option seems a great choice for DJ from the little I know and what he has said about school.  C19 and the Wojo change may have been the tipping point emotionally.

While not a bad choice for Dawson, it is a bit more grey, as I think if he waits, he might earn guaranteed money in the future. That is why it is so smart for him to go through the evaluation process, balance his economic options, get graded.

In both cases, the young men and their families are doing a much better job than us Scoop Intelligencia in evaluating their paths forward. Good luck to both.

[Shooter McGavin]

The "right" answer is for the athlete to do what he and his family thinks is best.

Correct.  This is the only thing that matters.  Both ways are excellent at developing players for professional careers.

[The Sultan]

Let's add a little dose of reality here.

It was no fun being a student and student athlete during the past 1.5 years. Playing in front of no one. Under lock down in your rooms. Restricted on open gym and weight room access. No social life. A coach change.

Let's also add some G League reality. Long bus rides to god awful cities. Crappy food options. Low salaries unless Select where you now pay taxes and have to dip into your own pockets for home living expenses like rent, food, phone and insurance. Hoffman Estates, Walnut Creek and Cleveland may be the most exciting cities.

For this elite group, the Select designation now offers a more attractive path if earned.  Low six figures, early identification for promotion to the parent, a chance to work on their game 100%, especially if school is not your thing.

To me fwiw, this option seems a great choice for DJ from the little I know and what he has said about school.  C19 and the Wojo change may have been the tipping point emotionally.

While not a bad choice for Dawson, it is a bit more grey, as I think if he waits, he might earn guaranteed money in the future. That is why it is so smart for him to go through the evaluation process, balance his economic options, get graded.

In both cases, the young men and their families are doing a much better job than us Scoop Intelligencia in evaluating their paths forward. Good luck to both.

Yep, yep.

[Shooter McGavin]

With all due respect, you don't seem to have any sort of grasp on the reality of the current NBA and player development paths.  As others have mentioned, not only has it come a LONG way since the D League, it's come miles and changed immensely since Vander graduated.  Wes was a fairly unique situation at the time, being an undrafted rookie into a NBA contract.  Now that happens all the time.

If you are anywhere close to the NBA, the only person who benefits from going back to college for another year is the fans of your program.  You grow much more as a player training every day, not having to worry about class, and playing daily against other pros.  Not practices against much less talented teammates and a non con games against teams of guys who will have an office job when their eligibility expires.

Going to class is the only difference with regard to training at a high major school (I know there are limits due to NCAA rules with coaches present but athletes can use all their free time in the gym if they want). Both ways allow you to prepare against future pros.  Most starters at a high Major schools could have a pro basketball career in some shape or form after college.

[Skip Intro]

Its depressing that professional basketball is sucking the life blood out of college ball by paying the most talented kids to drop out of School after a year. It's really sickening. How can there be an endless amount of openings on professional team rosters? For most of us our college years were some of the greatest of our lives - the friendships, the classes, the parties and campus activities. I feel sorry for drop outs who won't have these memories.

But a high major D1 athlete misses out on almost all of this stuff, so their memories of college won't even be close to the same as ours.  It's a job, and your paycheck can either be in the form of tuition (NCAA) or actual dollars (G-League, foreign leagues, etc.).  There's no wrong choice.

[pbiflyer]

Let's add a little dose of reality here.

This is scoop. Pretty sure that isn't allowed here.

Well said, btw.

[Galway Eagle]

Its depressing that professional basketball is sucking the life blood out of college ball by paying the most talented kids to drop out of School after a year. It's really sickening. How can there be an endless amount of openings on professional team rosters? For most of us our college years were some of the greatest of our lives - the friendships, the classes, the parties and campus activities. I feel sorry for drop outs who won't have these memories.

But they don't get near that freedom we all did. Most their meals are planned, they can't take part in many activities (remember when Lazar wanted to join Rowing?) they maybe get a month or two of parties each year and have to be careful about where they go. I agree on the friendships, and would add feeling a part of a larger community is awesome as I'd back up the most hated MU alum any day over a Domer. But that all being said if a kid isn't in it to be a part of the community anyways then that's that.

[StillAWarrior]

But a high major D1 athlete misses out on almost all of this stuff, so their memories of college won't even be close to the same as ours.  It's a job, and your paycheck can either be in the form of tuition (NCAA) or actual dollars (G-League, foreign leagues, etc.).  There's no wrong choice.

Reiterating this point. In my daughter's sophomore year, one of the seniors on her team was asked not to return to the team but her scholarship was honored. At the time, my daughter half-jokingly said, "that's the dream...to be able to spend senior year on scholarship but not have any of the responsibilities..." She couldn't know at the time that COVID would make that a reality. Not intending to make light of COVID, of course but just pointing out that for many athletes, it really is just a job and a means to an end.

[Herman Cain]

Reiterating this point. In my daughter's sophomore year, one of the seniors on her team was asked not to return to the team but her scholarship was honored. At the time, my daughter half-jokingly said, "that's the dream...to be able to spend senior year on scholarship but not have any of the responsibilities..." She couldn't know at the time that COVID would make that a reality. Not intending to make light of COVID, of course but just pointing out that for many athletes, it really is just a job and a means to an end.

My kids lives were : get up early every morning , watch film, then go to practice get the crap beat out of you every day , then weight room , then physical therapy w. Take classes and then go to mandatory study hall ( which they monitor with a swipe card) . Several weekends with community service for pe purposes . Rinse and repeat .

During off season there were parties and  getting access to all Greek life without being a member , which was nice  ,but really no time for much else. Very few kids had friends who were NARPs (non athletic , random , Person) . The few that did treasured those friendships.

So there are definitely trade offs of being high major D1 athlete .

Many kids who saw no future in their sports start putting in heavier effort in classroom Junior and Senior year . They see the payoff in the alumni connections for jobs and ability to get into grad schools.

[zcg2013]

I'm sure this was posted when it was first published, but I think it deserves to be brought up again.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/warriors/article/Life-on-NBA-s-fringe-Will-Vander-Blue-s-14942106.php

This article discussed how Vander had the offer for 7 figure contracts overseas, but turned them down for the G-League (similar to what Juan did). It also talks about the night-club incident that hampered him in a crucial preseason.

Dawson (and DJ for that matter) both have enough skills to be successful basketball players in wherever they end up. Opportunities for money will also be presented to them.

If Dawson chooses to return, great. If he doesn't, best of luck. Neither decision is a mistake. He wants his job to be a basketball player, and he will have that opportunity.

Now if NIL changes and he has a chance to profit while at MU, the argument takes a bit of a change. But if his ultimate goal is to profit from his above-average athletic abilities, then he will have that chance, regardless of returning.

[MU82]

Its depressing that professional basketball is sucking the life blood out of college ball by paying the most talented kids to drop out of School after a year. It's really sickening. How can there be an endless amount of openings on professional team rosters? For most of us our college years were some of the greatest of our lives - the friendships, the classes, the parties and campus activities. I feel sorry for drop outs who won't have these memories.

You are depressed because college athletes want to investigate all opportunities -- and take advantage of those that they and their families believe serve them best -- rather than cater to your fandom?

[The Sultan]

You are depressed because college athletes want to investigate all opportunities -- and take advantage of those that they and their families believe serve them best -- rather than cater to your fandom?

His vision of high level intercollegiate athletics dates back to approximately 1964.

[TheREALwrk]

Maybe have a big year and get drafted. All I know leaving early did not help him since he was not drafted.  Played well in the G league, but only got a cup of coffee in the show.  Same thing that might happen to Garcia.

It's been well-documented that Vander thought putting MU on his back and bringing them to an Elite 8 was his best chance at getting drafted and a shot at the NBA. He was doing what's right for him. Hindsight says he may be wrong. But looking at the following years team, he probably made the right choice.