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Author Topic: What's the word on Garcia?  (Read 162115 times)

MUfan12

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #175 on: June 12, 2021, 10:36:25 AM »
So, what's the word on Garcia?

Broke his foot running to the NBA after beating Jacksonville at the MECCA.

Herman Cain

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #176 on: June 12, 2021, 10:50:24 AM »
Broke his foot running to the NBA after beating Jacksonville at the MECCA.
Was seen at Jimmy Johns wearing a boot.
Winning is overrated. The only time it is really important is in surgery and war.
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muspc2

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #177 on: June 12, 2021, 11:25:17 AM »
     Thanks bilsu for your excellent recognition of the 1971 and 1969 games. They not only serve as recollections from memory lane, but emphasize that there was a time that MU was not only trying for New Big East titles, but for the national championship. I don't think posters who are old enough to remember those games live in the past, but rather hope that MU now can get back to the point that MU is in the national conversation. (Villanova's recent 2 national championships seems to say that a small private school can still do it now.)                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
    I recollect the same things about the 1971 Ohio State game, but a couple of the calls against Dean seemed to be highly questionable under even the rules in effect then. One in particular comes to mind (maybe the third of Dean's five fouls?) which perhaps best can be described as  the present day equivalent of a block/charge call. By that stage of the game it was obvious that Ohio State was trying to draw fouls on Dean, but their defender was out of position or otherwise late and flew over to a position to try to draw the charge. It seemed, however, that the defender actually hurried over and ran into Dean before he even had a chance to turn to go up court. It may venture into conspiracy theory territory, but the referees for that game were from UCLA's PAC 8 (now PAC 10). Maybe they were giving Ohio State's tactics a little help on behalf of their conference. Al was instrumental in bringing truly neutral officials to road games in that era; and he had discontinued a home and home series with Villanova because the "home cooking" in Philadelphia was over the top. An article by retired refs of that era went so far as to admit that bias for the home team was a real thing (after all, the many independents of that era were picked and paid for by the home team).                                                                         
     Everyone recalls or has been told of Mount's winning shot in that 1969 game, but I'm glad bilsu brought up the previous play where George Thompson was left alone to try to bring up the ball. I was at the old Wisconsin Fieldhouse for that game and remember vividly being panicked and confused as Dean jogged up the sideline leaving  Thompson alone. George was an ABA pro player in his own right, but at that stage of his career Thompson wouldn't be called a good ballhandler. As it was, Herm Gilliam (who also went on to play pro) was guarding Thompson one on one. My memory's eye seems to recall George taking one last glance at the back of Dean's head, then going into an elaborate but useless body fake while dribbling the ball away from his body on the right side. Herm (a good athlete himself) simply closed on Thompson, flicked the ball away, and went in for a lay up. As Dean was without a doubt the best ballhandler in MU history it was extremely hard to take. The explanation that bilsu gives has Al's thinking all over it. That is, that somehow an older poor dribbling forward was a better choice than a highly gifted sophomore pointguard. Respectfully, Al was wrong that time and Jim Chones did not cost MU that game.                                                                                                                 

BCHoopster

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #178 on: June 12, 2021, 11:41:31 AM »
Think it was George Faeber who stole the ball, Dean ran away from the ball as told to me by one of the players on the team! Of course, Ric Cobb missed the second free throw to win the game, to bad.  Loved to have seen how Al would have guarded Lew Alcindor

MU82

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #179 on: June 12, 2021, 12:47:39 PM »
Loved to have seen how Al would have guarded Lew Alcindor

Al was too short, slow and old to guard the future Kareem. I didn't even know he had eligibility left!
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Dawson Rental

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #180 on: June 12, 2021, 02:42:00 PM »
Jonathan Givony
@DraftExpress
Every NBA team submitted votes for 70 players for the NBA Combine and G League Elite Camp today. Around 100 players will be invited after the tally count to participate in one of the two camps. With the Combine dates pushed back a month, expect quite a few int'l players to attend

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1400903980969041923

There are 355 NBA Draft entrants so far and Garcia was one of 100 invited to the combine. 60 of those will get drafted.
I think it's pretty safe to say he's an NBA talent.


Yes, but if he's not top 30, then he's not a guaranteed contract NBA talent.
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

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No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

brewcity77

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #181 on: June 12, 2021, 04:17:30 PM »
Yes, but if he's not top 30, then he's not a guaranteed contract NBA talent.

People cared about that 5-10 years ago, not so much anymore. It went from are you lottery, to are you first round, to are you going to get drafted, to are you going to get a 2-way. At this point, anyone that thinks they can get a 2-way, which is probably a lot of players whether realistic or not, is likely to be seriously tempted to take their shot.
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Herman Cain

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #182 on: June 12, 2021, 04:34:41 PM »
People cared about that 5-10 years ago, not so much anymore. It went from are you lottery, to are you first round, to are you going to get drafted, to are you going to get a 2-way. At this point, anyone that thinks they can get a 2-way, which is probably a lot of players whether realistic or not, is likely to be seriously tempted to take their shot.

First Round 30
Second Round 30
Two Way (Max)60

That is a potential total of 120 spots

I think there is something like 350 names in the pool(correct me if I am wrong) . So yeah if a kid thinks he is top 1/3 in the pool he is potentially going to go for it.

Winning is overrated. The only time it is really important is in surgery and war.
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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #183 on: June 12, 2021, 05:23:31 PM »
First Round 30
Second Round 30
Two Way (Max)60

That is a potential total of 120 spots

I think there is something like 350 names in the pool(correct me if I am wrong) . So yeah if a kid thinks he is top 1/3 in the pool he is potentially going to go for it.

And I suspect there are 350 kids who think that they're top 1/3.  Can't really blame people for betting on themselves. 

We R Final Four

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #184 on: June 12, 2021, 05:31:56 PM »
And I suspect there are 350 kids who think that they're top 1/3.  Can't really blame people for betting on themselves.
I think this is exactly right.

bilsu

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #185 on: June 12, 2021, 06:47:22 PM »
First Round 30
Second Round 30
Two Way (Max)60

That is a potential total of 120 spots

I think there is something like 350 names in the pool(correct me if I am wrong) . So yeah if a kid thinks he is top 1/3 in the pool he is potentially going to go for it.
I thinbk you are over counting. First round 30 guaranteed contracts. Some second round picks will end up with two way contracts. Can a player that has a two way contract this year get a two way contract next year? If so, then there will be less available two way contracts for this year's class.

Herman Cain

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #186 on: June 12, 2021, 06:53:55 PM »
I thinbk you are over counting. First round 30 guaranteed contracts. Some second round picks will end up with two way contracts. Can a player that has a two way contract this year get a two way contract next year? If so, then there will be less available two way contracts for this year's class.
I was doing the theoretical max, i.e. All Second get a contract and all two way go to this years class. As you point out that is not what actually happens. I was just showing how an optimistic and confident player would see their chances through rose colored ( or blue and gold colored ) glasses.
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Stretchdeltsig

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #187 on: June 14, 2021, 12:33:28 PM »
Nope. Chones left about 3/4ths of the way through his second season under Al -- because freshmen weren't allowed to play back then.

Marquette got a total of 50 games, and one NCAA tournament appearance, in Chones' 1 3/4 seasons.

You are right. But he played most of his junior year.

JakeBarnes

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #188 on: June 14, 2021, 12:48:53 PM »
So any new news on Dawson? Has he been spotted at Chipotle? Have they retired his walking boot?
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Jockey

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #189 on: June 14, 2021, 12:50:32 PM »
First Round 30
Second Round 30
Two Way (Max)60

That is a potential total of 120 spots

I think there is something like 350 names in the pool(correct me if I am wrong) . So yeah if a kid thinks he is top 1/3 in the pool he is potentially going to go for it.

I don't think your numbers are correct. There will not be 60 NEW 2-way contracts every year. The rule is that each team may have 2 players on 2-way contracts. Only players in their fourth NBA season or earlier are able to sign Two-Way Contracts, which can be for either one or two seasons.

So it is not 60 2-ways each year from guys declaring for the draft. The 60 players comprise guys coming out of college, G League players, guys already signed to 2-ways, and foreign players.

So out of the 350, the actual number of contracts available is much less that 120, probably well under 100.

So if Garcia wants to go to the G League, he would probably be on a standard G League contract, hoping to improve to get a 2-way or a 10 day contract where he could impress a team enough to sign him to a deal.


If anybody sees a mistake here, please let me know.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #190 on: June 14, 2021, 01:03:47 PM »
I don't think your numbers are correct. There will not be 60 NEW 2-way contracts every year. The rule is that each team may have 2 players on 2-way contracts. Only players in their fourth NBA season or earlier are able to sign Two-Way Contracts, which can be for either one or two seasons.

So it is not 60 2-ways each year from guys declaring for the draft. The 60 players comprise guys coming out of college, G League players, guys already signed to 2-ways, and foreign players.

So out of the 350, the actual number of contracts available is much less that 120, probably well under 100.

So if Garcia wants to go to the G League, he would probably be on a standard G League contract, hoping to improve to get a 2-way or a 10 day contract where he could impress a team enough to sign him to a deal.


If anybody sees a mistake here, please let me know.


This is largely correct, but the language is less than four years of service.  I don't think the NBA has partial years of service however?
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Herman Cain

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #191 on: June 14, 2021, 03:08:19 PM »
I don't think your numbers are correct. There will not be 60 NEW 2-way contracts every year. The rule is that each team may have 2 players on 2-way contracts. Only players in their fourth NBA season or earlier are able to sign Two-Way Contracts, which can be for either one or two seasons.

So it is not 60 2-ways each year from guys declaring for the draft. The 60 players comprise guys coming out of college, G League players, guys already signed to 2-ways, and foreign players.

So out of the 350, the actual number of contracts available is much less that 120, probably well under 100.

So if Garcia wants to go to the G League, he would probably be on a standard G League contract, hoping to improve to get a 2-way or a 10 day contract where he could impress a team enough to sign him to a deal.


If anybody sees a mistake here, please let me know.
As I pointed out to Bilsu earlier above, the 60 two way number was a theoretical max number if all those contracts came from new college players. I was just trying to come up with the largest number of available spots. You are correct in real life number the two way number is lower.
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BCHoopster

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #192 on: June 14, 2021, 03:20:01 PM »
Bottom line is to wait a year and improve his stock to becoming a millionaire drafted i. The first round.  If he goes to the G league and does not improve it will take awhile to get a big contract.   Improve in college or be like Vander Blue

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #193 on: June 14, 2021, 03:21:26 PM »
Bottom line is to wait a year and improve his stock to becoming a millionaire drafted i. The first round.  If he goes to the G league and does not improve it will take awhile to get a big contract.   Improve in college or be like Vander Blue


No that's not the bottom line.  Players can improve all sorts of places these days.  College...G-League...Europe...  They should go where they feel the situation is best for them.
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avid1010

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #194 on: June 14, 2021, 03:29:08 PM »
People cared about that 5-10 years ago, not so much anymore. It went from are you lottery, to are you first round, to are you going to get drafted, to are you going to get a 2-way. At this point, anyone that thinks they can get a 2-way, which is probably a lot of players whether realistic or not, is likely to be seriously tempted to take their shot.
i don't see it this way...see it more as guaranteed money in the first round...and if you're not getting guaranteed money you should think about if your stock will be higher in a year given your expected trajectory.  he can take his shot anytime...unless he feels his stock will never be higher.  i think vander felt that way after the NCAA run...and i think he was likely right...while many criticized him and he hasn't made it...i don't think another year at MU was going to get him into the first round.

i don't feel that way about garcia at this point.   is trying to make the nba from the g league easier than doing so from MU?  if he turns out not to be NBA material, is he likely to make more money overseas coming from MU or from the g league?  those are the two questions i'd be asking myself if i wasn't looking at very probable guarunteed money in the nba.   

avid1010

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #195 on: June 14, 2021, 03:30:09 PM »

No that's not the bottom line.  Players can improve all sorts of places these days.  College...G-League...Europe...  They should go where they feel the situation is best for them.
+1

JakeBarnes

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #196 on: June 14, 2021, 03:35:29 PM »
Looks like both Dawson and DJ Carton will be at the G League combine coming up. Wishing them both well--even though I selfishly hope Dawson comes back for next year now that it sounds like Morsell is leaning this way.
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BCHoopster

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #197 on: June 14, 2021, 03:44:45 PM »

No that's not the bottom line.  Players can improve all sorts of places these days.  College...G-League...Europe...  They should go where they feel the situation is best for them.
   

Sure you can improve much like Anderson did, but Garcia has along way to go to improve.  Play against college kids and stand out vs. the G league and get a minimum contract.  Ellenson got 5M set for life, now he is struggling to get into the show but has the money. Garcia will have nothing financially if he goes to the G League but hope. I like guarantee money.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #198 on: June 14, 2021, 03:49:38 PM »
   Sure you can improve much like Anderson did, but Garcia has along way to go to improve.  Play against college kids and stand out vs. the G league and get a minimum contract.  Ellenson got 5M set for life, now he is struggling to get into the show but has the money. Garcia will have nothing financially if he goes to the G League but hope. I like guarantee money.


He would get no guaranteed money if he returned to Marquette.
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JakeBarnes

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Re: What's the word on Garcia?
« Reply #199 on: June 14, 2021, 03:56:22 PM »

He would get no guaranteed money if he returned to Marquette.

Not if Scoop has any say--

Rocky, can we use the Scoop profits to pay Dawson under the table?
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