What's the word on Garcia?

[Shooter McGavin]

Was Al McGuire wrong for steering Jim Chones to a professional career?  I’m not sure there’s been a time in history college basketball has ever been about the student athlete.  Big-time college basketball has always been about the university selling itself and making money.  Reading John Gasaway’s book, “Miracles on the Hardwood”, really reinforces that notion.  You want real student athletes?  Ok.  Get rid of all athletic scholarships

CBB will not go away.  The new reality however is chipping away at the quality of the product.  For better (for the athletes) or worse (fans of college basketball) cbb will become more watered down with lesser talent. 

[Uncle Rico]

CBB will not go away.  The new reality however is chipping away at the quality of the product.  For better (for the athletes) or worse (fans of college basketball) cbb will become more watered down with lesser talent.

This is fallacy.  Kids have been leaving for decades.  The game and sport is ever evolving.  The problem with the product on the floor isn’t the players, it’s the coaching at all levels and the disorganization of sports as a whole in this country

[Shooter McGavin]

This is fallacy.  Kids have been leaving for decades.  The game and sport is ever evolving.  The problem with the product on the floor isn’t the players, it’s the coaching at all levels and the disorganization of sports as a whole in this country

The more pro options there are for players,  the lesser the talent level will be at the college level.   Coaching or not.  Disorganized or not. 

[Silkk the Shaka]

CBB will not go away.  The new reality however is chipping away at the quality of the product.  For better (for the athletes) or worse (fans of college basketball) cbb will become more watered down with lesser talent.

Coaching & player development will be at a premium, the great differentiator. Will be way harder to stack rosters with a bunch of guys that are head and shoulders above their peers. That makes it more interesting to me, not less, but I can see why it potentially wouldn't for the casual fan.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

This is fallacy.  Kids have been leaving for decades.  The game and sport is ever evolving.  The problem with the product on the floor isn’t the players, it’s the coaching at all levels and the disorganization of sports as a whole in this country

I disagree with this completely. The lack of talent that sustains over multiple seasons is a big problem for college basketball and has been for awhile. But it seems like more and more fringe pro guys like Garcia are choosing that route to develop their game. 

[Herman Cain]

MacClung, who has been in some mock drafts, was invited to something call the G League Elite combine. So I guess there is two levels of combine invites. I hope Dawson gets the actual NBA combine invite.

https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2021/06/07/mac-mcclung-invited-to-participate-in-nba-g-league-elite-camp/

[Stretchdeltsig]

Was Al McGuire wrong for steering Jim Chones to a professional career?  I’m not sure there’s been a time in history college basketball has ever been about the student athlete.  Big-time college basketball has always been about the university selling itself and making money.  Reading John Gasaway’s book, “Miracles on the Hardwood”, really reinforces that notion.  You want real student athletes?  Ok.  Get rid of all athletic scholarships

Al had Chones play for 3 years before telling him to turn pro.

[brewcity77]

MacClung, who has been in some mock drafts, was invited to something call the G League Elite combine. So I guess there is two levels of combine invites. I hope Dawson gets the actual NBA combine invite.

https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2021/06/07/mac-mcclung-invited-to-participate-in-nba-g-league-elite-camp/

The G League Elite combine will come first. Some of the top participants of the GLE combine will get invites to the NBA combine as well. By all reports, Dawson was invited to the NBA combine, not the GLE combine.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If so many kids want to skip college for the quick money and play ball in Timbuktu. That’s why. I’d only target kids that want a degree. Do you remember student athletes. College ball is a lot more fun to watch than the NBA and Timbuktu.

But this has always been the case and CBB has thrived. So why is it suddenly going to end?

[MU82]

Al had Chones play for 3 years before telling him to turn pro.

Nope. Chones left about 3/4ths of the way through his second season under Al -- because freshmen weren't allowed to play back then.

Marquette got a total of 50 games, and one NCAA tournament appearance, in Chones' 1 3/4 seasons.

[MUUWUWM]

He's gone.

[The Lens]

Nope. Chones left about 3/4ths of the way through his second season under Al -- because freshmen weren't allowed to play back then.

Marquette got a total of 50 games, and one NCAA tournament appearance, in Chones' 1 3/4 seasons.

Let’s not kid ourselves, Al made a commission off Chones (and others). Al always took care of #1. 

[BCHoopster]

Let’s not kid ourselves, Al made a commission off Chones (and others). Al never didn’t anything for himself.

Al was always out for himself, Childrens Hospital paid him for  Al's Run, and to me, that was distasteful, charity event, really.

[real chili 83]

Al was always out for himself, Childrens Hospital paid him for  Al's Run, and to me, that was distasteful, charity event, really.

How is it distasteful if they asked, and he said yes.  And it became wildly popular and productive as a result.

[MU82]

Al looked out for No. 1 while also doing many altruistic things.

Which makes him, what ... human?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Remember that was back in the day when coaches weren't making what they are now. 

[RubyWiscy]

Yes, I  love revisionist history! Al was such a user and abuser. Did nothing but take advantage of everyone and everything he came in contact with. It is a wonder the people of Milwaukee and Marquette didn't just run him out if town. I heard he even picked his nose once...and in public!

[Scoop Snoop]

Coaching & player development will be at a premium, the great differentiator. Will be way harder to stack rosters with a bunch of guys that are head and shoulders above their peers. That makes it more interesting to me, not less, but I can see why it potentially wouldn't for the casual fan.

While college basketball will lose more exceptional players under this new cbb world order, I agree that it may result in a better game overall in the sense that, as you stated, coaching and player development will be at a premium vs. watching effectively semi pro college teams demolishing good competition. If Wojo had remained at Duke over the past 7 years, he would probably now be K's designated successor. In a nutshell, that's a perfect example of what is wrong with cbb. The Blue Bloods will be the biggest losers in all this. Works for me.

[Hards Alumni]

Yes, I  love revisionist history! Al was such a user and abuser. Did nothing but take advantage of everyone and everything he came in contact with. It is a wonder the people of Milwaukee and Marquette didn't just run him out if town. I heard he even picked his nose once...and in public!

Or maybe he was human like the rest of us.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

While college basketball will lose more exceptional players under this new cbb world order, I agree that it may result in a better game overall in the sense that, as you stated, coaching and player development will be at a premium vs. watching effectively semi pro college teams demolishing good competition. If Wojo had remained at Duke over the past 7 years, he would probably now be K's designated successor. In a nutshell, that's a perfect example of what is wrong with cbb. The Blue Bloods will be the biggest losers in all this. Works for me.

I think we are already seeing teams who have invested in player development, and who have taken a transfer or two at the right time, playing better than the one-and-done era teams.  Baylor....UVa....Nova all fit that mold.  So on the one hand, I think that's good for college basketball.

That being said, I think college basketball has definitely been hurt by top talent leaving early.  Not only are they leaving earlier, but they are leaving in larger numbers.  And yes while that does put a premium on development, talent is talent.  And invariably it has hurt the game having less of it on the floor.  A generation ago, a player like Dawson Garcia would have stuck around three years.  He would have grown and started to dominate in certain phases of the game.  But also back then it was an NBA bench, a crappy developmental league or Europe.  Now there are better options for players who don't make an NBA bench immediately.  The NBA has invested in development - and it has worked!

Put it this way, the divide between the NBA and the college game has never been greater. 

[The Lens]

Yes, I  love revisionist history! Al was such a user and abuser. Did nothing but take advantage of everyone and everything he came in contact with. It is a wonder the people of Milwaukee and Marquette didn't just run him out if town. I heard he even picked his nose once...and in public!

No revisionist history at all.  Al most certainly looked out for kids.  I add that note more to remind people, we weren't ever perfect so let's stop trying to be perfect.

[DienerTime34]

On one hand, we cheer kids on with "don't listen to the critics," "believe in yourself," and rightly celebrate athletes who overcome long odds or doubters.

We celebrate pro athletes who look back on "draft experts" talking points explaining why they won't succeed or shouldn't be drafted at all.

Then on the other hand, we also tell them to listen to their critics, and ask them not to believe they can succeed at the pro level just yet. "Come back to school for one more year."

Which is it? 

[Lennys Tap]

Or maybe he was human like the rest of us.

This.

I doubt anyone on this board holds Al McGuire in higher esteem than me. He was intuitively brilliant, larger than life and could command a room like no one I’ve ever known. And he was a very good man. But he played the angles and always had one. To take a school like Marquette on the run he did he had to. He would be the first to tell you that he wasn’t a saint, but every player that I know of thought they benefited from experiencing Al. And he won games at an outrageous clip. That’s an epitaph any coach should be proud of.

[muwarrior69]

This.

I doubt anyone on this board holds Al McGuire in higher esteem than me. He was intuitively brilliant, larger than life and could command a room like no one I’ve ever known. And he was a very good man. But he played the angles and always had one. To take a school like Marquette on the run he did he had to. He would be the first to tell you that he wasn’t a saint, but every player that I know of thought they benefited from experiencing Al. And he won games at an outrageous clip. That’s an epitaph any coach should be proud of.

I do! Not even close.

[MUBurrow]

That being said, I think college basketball has definitely been hurt by top talent leaving early.  Not only are they leaving earlier, but they are leaving in larger numbers.  And yes while that does put a premium on development, talent is talent.  And invariably it has hurt the game having less of it on the floor.  A generation ago, a player like Dawson Garcia would have stuck around three years.  He would have grown and started to dominate in certain phases of the game.  But also back then it was an NBA bench, a crappy developmental league or Europe.  Now there are better options for players who don't make an NBA bench immediately.  The NBA has invested in development - and it has worked!

Put it this way, the divide between the NBA and the college game has never been greater.

+1.  Adam Silver (and whoever is advising him on this) deserve a lot of credit here.  The NBA did a great job surveying the evolution of straight from high school, to one and done, to kids starting to play overseas for a year.  They established a way to integrate the best young talent immediattely without relying on the CBK system and without burdening their teams by tossing unprepared high school kids on NBA rosters.