Marquette to change/update University Seal

[jficke13]

Okay.

[Sir Lawrence]

What was it representing before? I noticed that to and was curious why.

The wolves are from the Coat of arms of the Loyola family in honor of St. Ignatius of Loyola, founder of the Society of Jesus.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

What was it representing before? I noticed that to and was curious why.

Clearly the wolves were problematic.  They represented two brothers tearing apart the Marquette basketball program and are featured prominently in the coat of arms of the Ellenson and Hauser family.   

[StillAWarrior]

Here's our new seal:

Generally, I think it looks good. I really don't feel strongly about the seal in general. From a purely stylistic standpoint, I liked the diagonal division previously more than the horizontal division. I also liked the "Marquette" arching on the top and "University" arching on the bottom more than I like the "Marquette University" arching across the top. I like the inclusion of AMDG more than the old "Numen Flumenque". To that end, I would have liked them to just go with the abbreviation and make it smaller like they had with the old Latin motto (perhaps within the red/gold sector). Visually, I like the rivers/rice more than the old Pere Marquette canoe. I kind of liked the wolves - I'll miss them.

[NCMUFan]

Be interesting to see the new seal.  Personally, I thought the old seal said it all.  Pere Marquette, witnessing and evangelizing to the Indians and treating them and their culture with respect and dignity.

[Sir Lawrence]

Be interesting to see the new seal.

Um, look ^

[Uncle Rico]

I don't see a chalk outline anywhere

[BrewCity83]

Generally, I think it looks good. From a purely stylistic standpoint, I liked the diagonal division previously more than the horizontal division. I also liked the "Marquette" arching on the top and "University" arching on the bottom more than I like the "Marquette University" arching across the top. I like the inclusion of AMDG more than the old "Numen Flumenque". To that end, I would have liked them to just go with the abbreviation and make it smaller like they had with the old Latin motto (perhaps within the red/gold sector). Visually, I like the rivers/rice more than the old Pere Marquette canoe. I kind of liked the wolves - I'll miss them.

I agree with most of this, except I think the whole rivers section is pretty generic compared to the badass depiction of Pere Marquette in the outgoing seal.

[warriorchick]

It's not bad.

I was expecting a lot worse give the number of and diverse interests of the committee members that put it together.

I was worried that it might look like the backs of the jerseys that we had awhile back that included every Marquette basketball trope (including a picture of Al).

[tower912]

If they hadn't gone public, 3 people might have noticed.

[NCMUFan]

Um, look ^

Thank you.  When I see 11 pages on the subject, I need people like you to direct me.

[Heisenberg]

Will they also be removing the picture from the library that inspired the first seal?

Unfortunately none of this historical context matters.  All that matters is the five-second unthinking emotional reaction you have to the seal.

Should the painting also come down? 




Père Jacques Marquette meeting with American Indians during his 1673 expedition. Father Marquette stands in a canoe with two American Indian guides. The Mississippi River and bluffs are behind him. Oil painting owned by the Patrick and Beatrice Haggerty Museum of Art, Marquette University.

The image is taken from an 1869 Wilhelm Lamprecht painting, "Father Marquette and the Indians," gifted to the university soon after its founding. The Lamprecht painting can be seen on the second floor of the Raynor Memorial Libraries.

According to a paper by university archivist Mark Thiel, scholars  identified the native voyagers in the original painting as Metis, or men of mixed French and Native American ancestry who helped guide Marquette in present-day Wisconsin along with villages of Mascoutin or Illinois and Miami Native Americans.

The seal comes under criticism, however, as some members of the Marquette community argue the full painting differs significantly from the cropped version on the seal, resulting in an image that communicates dominance for Father Marquette over the Native American figure.

"The painting depicts Father Marquette essentially asking directions from a standing Native American," Tol Foster, a professor in the English department who specializes in American Indian studies, said in an email. "The standing Native American is cut out of the seal, such that instead of asking for directions, Pere Marquette seems to be telling the Indian steering his canoe where to go, which is amusing if you consider that the person least likely to know directions in this strange new land would have been the explorer himself."

Foster uses the seal in his classes to explore Native American representation. Similarly, Jodi Melamed, an associate professor of English and Africana Studies, incorporates the image into Marquette courses she teaches to focus on race and ethnic studies.

"Where Father Marquette is active and commanding, the Native figure appears passive and subservient," Melamed said. "It's the classic colonialist and white supremacist division of humanity being represented: the white Jesuit provides the direction, he's the brains of the outfit, the Native person provides the labor and follows the white person's lead."

Others perceive the university's depiction of Native Americans differently. Jacqueline Schram, faculty advisor of Marquette's Native American Student Association, sees the image as an inspiration of reflection and hope that Marquette can work to improve its focus on Native American issues and students.

"For me, the Native American in our seal serves as both a source of pride and compass," Schram said in an email. "The decision to indelibly etch the historic relationship between the First Peoples of Wisconsin and Father Marquette pays homage to the interdependency and inspires a sense of hope that this can be once again."

[Hards Alumni]

I agree with most of this, except I think the whole rivers section is pretty generic compared to the badass depiction of Pere Marquette in the outgoing seal.

badass?  lol

[Hards Alumni]

Will they also be removing the picture from the library that inspired the first seal?

One is art, the other is a logo.

Art will always be fine when there is context.  Just like the statues taken away from public squares and placed in museums are fine.

[4everwarriors]

Typical product of a committee...sucks ass, hey?

[Billy Hoyle]

The wolves are from the Coat of arms of the Loyola family in honor of St. Ignatius of Loyola, founder of the Society of Jesus.

Specifically, the generosity of the House of Loyola (having enough to even give the wolves).

[muwarrior69]

Here's our new seal:

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__today.marquette.edu_2022_02_board-2Dof-2Dtrustees-2Dapproves-2Dupdated-2Duniversity-2Dseal-2Dthat-2Dhonors-2Dcatholic-2Djesuit-2Dtradition-2Dand-2Dindigenous-2Dnations_&d=DwMF-g&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=xMe4opsVYFgLuPt_GcoG7mQvpA07i9dq30CVhRvDDms&m=fmU4KbWEp6GSs1FHwVDXcb4OmBxBi3UgHIynTPD6CLo&s=TB9c5CCYDLvYd18K7tGbbty8aopUggASJzailebVd7c&e=

Marquette University cancels Pere Marquette, its namesake from their official seal. Just be done with it and rename the University if they're so ashamed of his image.

[MU82]

I'm so outraged.

[4everwarriors]

Mite as well bee kalled Pussay University with a wet, harey kat as our maskot, aina?

[tower912]

Nah.  The students are being toughened up by all the gunplay.

[Uncle Rico]

Mite as well bee kalled Pussay University with a wet, harey kat as our maskot, aina?

Why?

[cheebs09]

Typical product of a committee...sucks ass, hey?

If anything, I'd say the previous one looks like it was designed by a committee. To me this one looks much cleaner. I'm pleasantly surprised with how it turned out. Onto the next thing to get up in arms about.

[Uncle Rico]

If anything, I'd say the previous one looks like it was designed by a committee. To me this one looks much cleaner. I'm pleasantly surprised with how it turned out. Onto the next thing to get up in arms about.

The usual snowflakes will complain like always

[4everwarriors]

Push back on cancel culture. No place for history in today's world. If you don't like it, cancel and poof it never existed, hey?

[Galway Eagle]

Push back on cancel culture. No place for history in today's world. If you don't like it, cancel and poof it never existed, hey?

Yeah people in history have never canceled things they didn't like. But you're right because it effects you now it means it never happened before. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rejection_of_Jesus#Rejection_as_the_Jewish_messiah

https://www.history.com/.amp/this-day-in-history/martin-luther-excommunicated

https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/the-truth-about-galileo-and-his-conflict-with-the-catholic-church