Marquette to change/update University Seal

[The Sultan]

So who are the snowflakes ?   The world has always been a cruel one and telling someone their concern is wacky is hardly that. My concern is that some are running around looking for something to affront them.
The seal controversy is a symptom.   While not a very attractive emblem ,it seems the Pere M. portion is a Rorschach test for some.

You fail to understand that while their concern may be "wacky" to you, it is sincere to them. 

So if its "not a very attractive emblem," what's the harm in changing it to address someone's concerns even if you think they are "wacky?"

[Billy Hoyle]

here's a proposal: If you support changing the seal because it's "offensive" then you can no longer refer to our teams at "Warriors" since that was deemed offensive as well. Deal?

Since I do not refer to the teams by the former name this will not be an issue. I think the idea that the seal is offensive is laughable but we have to acquiesce to their demands.

I certainly hope St. Ignatius of Loyola didn't do anything bad, otherwise, we'll be getting rid of the rest of the seal too.

[The Sultan]

here's a proposal: If you support changing the seal because it's "offensive" then you can no longer refer to our teams at "Warriors" since that was deemed offensive as well. Deal?

No.

[Pakuni]

here's a proposal: If you support changing the seal because it's "offensive" then you can no longer refer to our teams at "Warriors" since that was deemed offensive as well. Deal?

Since I do not refer to the teams by the former name this will not be an issue. I think the idea that the seal is offensive is laughable but we have to acquiesce to their demands.

I certainly hope St. Ignatius of Loyola didn't do anything bad, otherwise, we'll be getting rid of the rest of the seal too.

Here's a proposal ...you can disagree with someone's point of view about what may or may not be offensive without being disrespectful or dismissive of their beliefs.
Billy Hoyle and WellsStreetWnderer don't get to decide what others can and cannot find offensive.
Not everything is about you.

[MU82]

Why don't we wait to see how the team does this season?

Might want to put Shaka on the seal!

[Spotcheck Billy]

So we had a less cruel society when we told people their feelings didn't matter?


   So who are the snowflakes ?   The world has always been a cruel one and telling someone their concern is wacky is hardly that. My concern is that some are running around looking for something to affront them.
The seal controversy is a symptom.   While not a very attractive emblem ,it seems the Pere M. portion is a Rorschach test for some.

Your posts read like you are a someone running around looking for something to affront yourself.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

We have become a cruder society, says the guy who longs for the day when complaints of harmful racial stereotypes were met with a well-deserved knuckle sandwich.

Our president feels that way about Corn Pop.

[Billy Hoyle]

No.

so the seal is offensive but the name "Warriors" and the history of it (especially Willy Wampum) is not and we should dismiss the tribes in South Dakota that asked for the name to be changed and the opinion of the guy who played the First Warrior who supported the change. Got it.

[The Sultan]

so the seal is offensive but the name "Warriors" and the history of it (especially Willy Wampum) is not and we should dismiss the tribes in South Dakota that asked for the name to be changed and the opinion of the guy who played the First Warrior who supported the change. Got it.

No.  I treated your "proposal" with the sincerity it deserved when you added this nonsense. 

Since I do not refer to the teams by the former name this will not be an issue. I think the idea that the seal is offensive is laughable but we have to acquiesce to their demands.

I certainly hope St. Ignatius of Loyola didn't do anything bad, otherwise, we'll be getting rid of the rest of the seal too.

You aren't being a serious person.

[Pakuni]

Our president feels that way about Corn Pop.

He does? Weird, since Corn Pop has been dead for 5+ years.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

He does? Weird, since Corn Pop has been dead for 5+ years.

🤡

[Herman Cain]

https://apnews.com/article/sports-nebraska-hate-groups-lincoln-university-of-nebraska-2e6b2cb14f7939a449b6aba3ed6c68d2

[Heisenberg]

https://apnews.com/article/sports-nebraska-hate-groups-lincoln-university-of-nebraska-2e6b2cb14f7939a449b6aba3ed6c68d2

As long as we continually give fringe groups the ability to redefine and distort symbols and gestures, this will never stop.

In the end, everything will be changed into an offensive meaning.

[The Sultan]

As long as we continually give fringe groups the ability to redefine and distort symbols and gestures, this will never stop.

In the end, everything will be changed into an offensive meaning.

I mean it was the white supremacists who changed its meaning right?

[JWags85]

I mean it was the white supremacists who changed its meaning right?

He didn't say what fringe group it was. The statement was apolitical.  If ISIS suddenly started using thumbs up as their rallying cry, would we suddenly shun it as offensive?

[The Sultan]

He didn't say what fringe group it was. The statement was apolitical.  If ISIS suddenly started using thumbs up as their rallying cry, would we suddenly shun it as offensive?

I mean, we might right?  I guess it just depends on how prevalent it gets. The swastica was harmless 100+ years ago and now it means something else entirely.

Symbols change.  Words change.  We should change with it instead of complaining about the change.

[JWags85]

I mean, we might right?  I guess it just depends on how prevalent it gets. The swastica was harmless 100+ years ago and now it means something else entirely.

Symbols change.  Words change.  We should change with it instead of complaining about the change.

I think the Swastika was different though.  It was the equivalent of the hammer and sickle on flags and apparel and EVERYTHING.  This symbol is just in a bunch of pictures online.  I bet you ask 10 people on the street and a third, if that, know what the alternative meaning of the ok symbol is.

Changing and being deeply offended by it gives it way more agency than just ignoring it.  Its a hand symbol used by a bunch of fringe group morons.

[The Sultan]

I think the Swastika was different though.  It was the equivalent of the hammer and sickle on flags and apparel and EVERYTHING.  This symbol is just in a bunch of pictures online.  I bet you ask 10 people on the street and a third, if that, know what the alternative meaning of the ok symbol is.

Changing and being deeply offended by it gives it way more agency than just ignoring it.  Its a hand symbol used by a bunch of fringe group morons.

I just don't agree with that. Changing the hand symbol used by a cartoon mascot is just a very inconsequential thing to do. Might as well do it.

Not everything is a culture war.

[JWags85]

I just don't agree with that. Changing the hand symbol used by a cartoon mascot is just a very inconsequential thing to do. Might as well do it.

Not everything is a culture war.

It's not a culture war but it symbolizes that that hand symbol is now verboten.

This makes the seal look like a no brainer in comparison

[real chili 83]

I mean, we might right?  I guess it just depends on how prevalent it gets. The swastica was harmless 100+ years ago and now it means something else entirely.

Symbols change.  Words change.  We should change with it instead of complaining about the change.

A solution looking for a problem.

[Heisenberg]

I mean it was the white supremacists who changed its meaning right?

The white supremacists did not change its meaning, the woke left did.  The woke wanted to show their moral superiority over society and they changed its meaning, rationalizing this move because a few insignificant fringe people started to use it with a different meaning.

I would argue it is more popular as a symbol of a made three-point shot than white power.

When the O.K. Sign Is No Longer O.K.
Here is how a hand gesture long seen as innocuous was appropriated to signify "white power."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/15/us/ok-sign-white-power.html

It started in early 2017 as a hoax. Some users of 4chan, an anonymous and unrestricted online message board, began what they called "Operation O-KKK," to see if they could trick the wider world — and especially liberals and the mainstream media — into believing that the innocuous gesture was actually a clandestine symbol of white power.

"We must flood twitter and other social media websites with spam, claiming that the OK hand signal is a symbol of white supremacy," one of the users posted, going on to suggest that everyone involved create fake social media accounts "with basic white girl names" to propagate the notion as widely as possible.

The 4chan hoax succeeded all too well, and ceased being a hoax: Neo-Nazis, Ku Klux Klansmen and other white nationalists began using the gesture in public to signal their presence and to spot potential sympathizers and recruits. For them, the letters formed by the hand were not O and K, but W and P, for "white power."

-----

What also makes this work is Fluffy's attitude that everything he personally does not care about is inconsequential, so why not?  As long as everyone is this self-centered, and cannot take the time to understand what they are agreeing with, then everything will eventually be deemed offensive.

And I'll take this back to page 1 ... when a fringe group decides that Father Marquette was a racist, you will dutifully accept it and be completely fine with changing the name of the university? If Columbus is a racist and it's ok to remove symbols of him, it is only a matter of time before Marquette gets the same treatment.

Or, are we hypocrites because this name matters to us?

[Heisenberg]

I mean, we might right?  I guess it just depends on how prevalent it gets. The swastica was harmless 100+ years ago and now it means something else entirely.

Symbols change.  Words change.  We should change with it instead of complaining about the change.

The swastica traces back 7000 years.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/history-of-the-swastika

But in this case, it was not a few fringe people that appropriated it.  It did not start as a joke.  It was a symbol of a global movement that redefined humanity (for the worse).  So, in this case, it does take on a different meaning.

Drawing a moral equivalency between the swastica and a 4chan joke about a white power symbol is not remotely the same thing, the worst kind of whataboutism.

[Heisenberg]

Redefining the "ok" symbol as white power really gained momentum when the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) proclaimed it a symbol of hate.

If this is good enough for you to ban it, then let's not stop at this symbol.  Let's ban all the ADL symbols of hate.  They have hundreds of them.  You're not allowed to pick and close ... because you would be tolerating some racist/hate symbols.  All or none.

Some examples.

https://www.adl.org/hate-symbols

100%
100% is shorthand for "100% white" among white supremacists. It is also common to create alphanumeric variations to proclaim solidarity with a particular white supremacist group or gang, such as "112%" for "100% Aryan Brotherhood."

So the next time a coach says a player gave a 100% effort, he is a racist.  Because he said he gave a 100% white effort.

12
The number 12 is a numeric symbol for Aryan Brotherhood groups (as are the numbers 1 and 2 separately), especially the Aryan Brotherhood of Texas. Substituting letters for numbers, 12 equals AB, i.e., Aryan Brotherhood.

13
The number 13 is a numeric symbol for the Aryan Circle, the large Texas-based racist prison gang. Substituting letters for numbers, 1 and 3 equals A and C, i.e., AC or Aryan Circle.

14
14 is numerical shorthand for the white supremacist slogan known as the "14 Words": "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children."

Should MUBB ban the use of all these numbers? 

[MU82]

Wow ... somebody woke up Smuggles!

[Pakuni]

Redefining the "ok" symbol as white power really gained momentum when the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) proclaimed it a symbol of hate.

If this is good enough for you to ban it, then let's not stop at this symbol.  Let's ban all the ADL symbols of hate.  They have hundreds of them.  You're not allowed to pick and close ... because you would be tolerating some racist/hate symbols.  All or none.

Some examples.

https://www.adl.org/hate-symbols

100%
100% is shorthand for "100% white" among white supremacists. It is also common to create alphanumeric variations to proclaim solidarity with a particular white supremacist group or gang, such as "112%" for "100% Aryan Brotherhood."

So the next time a coach says a player gave a 100% effort, he is a racist.  Because he said he gave a 100% white effort.

12
The number 12 is a numeric symbol for Aryan Brotherhood groups (as are the numbers 1 and 2 separately), especially the Aryan Brotherhood of Texas. Substituting letters for numbers, 12 equals AB, i.e., Aryan Brotherhood.

13
The number 13 is a numeric symbol for the Aryan Circle, the large Texas-based racist prison gang. Substituting letters for numbers, 1 and 3 equals A and C, i.e., AC or Aryan Circle.

14
14 is numerical shorthand for the white supremacist slogan known as the "14 Words": "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children."

Should MUBB ban the use of all these numbers? 

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope