Question on Lovell

[NickelDimer]

If he understands the importance then he should fire Wojo

Winner, winner.

[Farley36]

You've had previous identities banned, and complained about our policies.  But the problem is you can't post without insults.  Last warning.

Do you feel like Thanos after collecting all the Infinity Stones? 

[rocky_warrior]

Do you feel like Thanos after collecting all the Infinity Stones?

Try me!

[tower912]

Who?

[The Sultan]

Wow you're dumb and making yourself look dumber by the minute.   I quoted Royal and then you jumped in and quoted me.   You IQ is shrinking by the minute

Lol.  It goes back to this. You're funny!

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=61629.msg1322052#msg1322052

[muwarrior69]

I mean this was 30 years ago.  That has been my frame of reference the entire time - that little has changed in 30 years.

But you do have an outdated view of a contemporary Jesuit education.

If you mean Jesuit education does not mean Catholic education we can agree. If the University in becoming more secular just be honest about it and drop the Catholic identity and don't pretend to be something you are not.

[tower912]

It is a Catholic identity.  In tune with the complete Catholic social teachings.

[The Sultan]

If you mean Jesuit education does not mean Catholic education we can agree. If the University in becoming more secular just be honest about it and drop the Catholic identity and don't pretend to be something you are not.

Because this is what a contemporary Catholic university looks like.

[muwarrior69]

Outside of ND, can a Catholic university, especially one like MU, be a national university and exclusively Catholic?

It sounds like you want us to be the University of Dallas or Ava Maria.

MU was a national Catholic University in my day and the theology requirements were meant for Catholic students only so the University was not exclusively Catholic. Is ND exclusively Catholic, if so that is news to me?

[muwarrior69]

Because this is what a contemporary Catholic university looks like.

To a non-Catholic.

[muwarrior69]

It is a Catholic identity.  In tune with the complete Catholic social teachings.

...and while de-emphasizing catechetical teaching.

[tower912]

You need to brush up on your catechism.

Catholic teachings on race, capitalism, the environment, social justice, death penalty, dignity of labor, immigration, just war are quite liberal.

[The Sultan]

To a non-Catholic.

No, this is what a contemporary Catholic university looks like.  Your view is not a contemporary one - it's from 50+ years ago.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

...and while de-emphasizing catechetical teaching.

I didnt go to the Marquette you describe and I am not a young person. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

To a non-Catholic.

Proud Catholic. And I agree with Fluffy.

[Warrior_2002]

Proud Catholic and I agree with muwarrior69.  Need more traditional Catholicism in today's Catholic education maybe more than ever.  My opinion.

[Farley36]

Lol.  It goes back to this. You're funny!

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=61629.msg1322052#msg1322052

Nope it doesn't.  Look back further to when you said what I quoted here.  Where you quoted me.  Look who I was quoting.  Wasn't you.  Look what I was referring to.  Wasn't what you claim I was doing.  I can't point out your shortcomings or Rocky Thanos will snap his fingers with all his great powers but try to think it through.  You can do it.  I believe in you.

[Viper]

Nope it doesn't.  Look back further to when you said what I quoted here.  Where you quoted me.  Look who I was quoting.  Wasn't you.  Look what I was referring to.  Wasn't what you claim I was doing.  I can't point out your shortcomings or Rocky Thanos will snap his fingers with all his great powers but try to think it through.  You can do it.  I believe in you.

Farley, I want more. Keep it clean and carry on. Yeah!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Proud Catholic and I agree with muwarrior69.  Need more traditional Catholicism in today's Catholic education maybe more than ever.  My opinion.

What is "traditional Catholicism"? Because for me it means reading the gospel and following the teachings of Jesus.

[awilhelmscream]

Haven't they secured a few absolutely massive donations?

Law school was like $60million

Lovell had nothing to do with that donation.  I know the family that made that donation very very well.  Can't credit him with that one unless we're handing him a trophy for right place right time to accept a check that was coming anyway.

[swoopem]

Lovell had nothing to do with that donation.  I know the family that made that donation very very well.  Can't credit him with that one unless we're handing him a trophy for right place right time to accept a check that was coming anyway.

Can you ask them what the big wigs think of Wojo? I'm pretty sure the family that donated is also involved in basketball (that's what the press release said). It'd be interesting to hear what donors actually think

[Dr. Blackheart]

No, this is what a contemporary Catholic university looks like.  Your view is not a contemporary one - it's from 50+ years ago.

This is a pretty well-thought out piece on what traditional Catholic liberal arts education is and how it's lost its way from the focus of educating the whole person via the seven liberal arts. MU has waived some of these requirements even today, and is focusing on educating secular specialists. This is what some of us are positing.

I don't even know what "contemporary Catholic education" model is. When cuts are being made as we speak and requirements are being waived to some of the seven liberal arts, the university may be "faith-based" still, but it's not a "Catholic education" in any defined sense--contemporary or traditionally.  It's moving us to secular Marquette Tech.

This is not about evangelizing to convert students into Catholics. It's about exposing and educating them to these liberal arts. For example, I was exposed to all seven at MU and didn't even take any classes in my major until junior year. So if waiving religion, fine arts, logic and other curricular defines contemporary, what that really means means is secular. And the educational focus has shifted from the whole person to a specialist.

And that may be fine to many as MU is following the market. But to others, we feel MU is losing its way and identity from its mission. Look no further than its capital investments under Lovell. This is the rub for us dissenters.

https://reverentcatholicmass.com/blog/best-overview-catholic-classical-education

[muwarrior69]

You need to brush up on your catechism.

Catholic teachings on race, capitalism, the environment, social justice, death penalty, dignity of labor, immigration, just war are quite liberal.

...emphasizing the temporal world rather than the eternal.

Why would the University in its mission statement, and with a broad brush, accuse former alumni that we were complicit in "white supremacy/racism and failed to confront racial injustice". Who the heck marched for civil rights back in the 60s. It was students like me. Yet simply because of the color our skin the University says we were blind to it. Its offensive.

[The Sultan]

This is a pretty well-thought out piece on what traditional Catholic liberal arts education is and how it's lost its way from the focus of educating the whole person via the seven liberal arts. MU has waived some of these requirements even today, and is focusing on educating secular specialists. This is what some of us are positing.

I don't even know what "contemporary Catholic education" model is. When cuts are being made as we speak and requirements are being waived to some of the seven liberal arts, the university may be "faith-based" still, but it's not a "Catholic education" in any defined sense--contemporary or traditionally.  It's moving us to secular Marquette Tech.

This is not about evangelizing to convert students into Catholics. It's about exposing and educating them to these liberal arts. For example, I was exposed to all seven at MU and didn't even take any classes in my major until junior year. So if waiving religion, fine arts, logic and other curricular defines contemporary, what that really means means is secular. And the educational focus has shifted from the whole person to a specialist.

And that may be fine to many as MU is following the market. But to others, we feel MU is losing its way and identity from its mission. Look no further than its capital investments under Lovell. This is the rub for us dissenters.

https://reverentcatholicmass.com/blog/best-overview-catholic-classical-education

What that article is emphasizing as a model of the liberal arts that hasn't existed for years at most places.  And is this fundamentally all that different?

https://bulletin.marquette.edu/undergrad/marquettecorecurriculum/#requirementstext

And the idea of not taking any courses in your major until you are a junior is one that went by the wayside years ago.  And for good reason.  Exposing students to their major early on, while simultaneously taking core courses, lets them see the value in what they are taking from a liberal arts perspective.  And it also gives them on opportunity to change their mind early in their tenure.  (Furthermore it helps with retention.)

[Warrior_2002]

What that article is emphasizing as a model of the liberal arts that hasn't existed for years at most places.  And is this fundamentally all that different?

https://bulletin.marquette.edu/undergrad/marquettecorecurriculum/#requirementstext

And the idea of not taking any courses in your major until you are a junior is one that went by the wayside years ago.  And for good reason.  Exposing students to their major early on, while simultaneously taking core courses, lets them see the value in what they are taking from a liberal arts perspective.  And it also gives them on opportunity to change their mind early in their tenure.  (Furthermore it helps with retention.)

The article actually highlights a model that is coming back more and more especially in the earlier years into high school and has seen students thrive at the next level.  Being taught how to think versus what to think.

And to answer an earlier question about traditional Catholicism, I'll simplify it by saying it is a Catholicism that is not watered down and holds true to its tenets.  It doesn't change and try to look more like the contemporary world.