Question on Lovell

[Dr. Blackheart]

My required core was largely the same in 2011. One less Theo,  two less fine arts, and one less speech IIRC. Has it changed significantly since then?

Here is Biz Ad today. Very different and scaled back on liberal arts and many are optional/elective.

https://www.marquette.edu/explore/major-business-administration.php

[Galway Eagle]

So much for that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/pope-same-sex-unions-licit/2021/03/15/8c51ee80-8581-11eb-be4a-24b89f616f2c_story.html

It says that same-sex unions are "not ordered to the Creator's plan." It says acknowledging those unions is "illicit." It says that God "cannot bless sin."

That's only as far as religion goes. He's previously stated that they deserve the same legal union rights on the civil side of things.

I swear the pope understands the separation of church and state better than most people who actually live in this country.

[muwarrior69]

That's only as far as religion goes. He's previously stated that they deserve the same legal union rights on the civil side of things.

I swear the pope understands the separation of church and state better than most people who actually live in this country.

...but the lifestyle is still sinful in the eyes of the church which is more interested in the salvation of their souls than their civil rights.

[Ardmore Mug]

Can this be moved to the SUPERBAR please ? ? ?   

[StillAWarrior]

I just looked through my transcript and assume the following must have been required in the 87-91 time frame. I don't know exactly what category a couple of them must have been in.

English - 4 classes
Philosophy - 4 classes
History - 2 classes
Poly Sci - 1 class
Foreign Language - 2 classes
Theology - 3 classes
Science - 3 classes (Psychology might have been an elective and/or fit into another category)
Economics - 1 class (probably fits into some other category)
Statistics - 1 class (probably fits into some other category)

I'm sure that there were probably some fine arts requirements too, but my minor was within fine arts, so I'm not sure what other students had to do.

I toured a school with my daughter this past weekend that considers itself a "liberal arts" but which I would characterize as "liberal arts lite" when compared to what I had to do. I'm a fan of liberal arts, so I am pleased that she does have to pick up some classes in a core curriculum (including some from natural sciences, social sciences, fine arts, humanities and foreign language) - but not nearly as much as I had to do at Marquette. However, it is more than my wife had to do at Marquette as an engineering student.

[tower912]

...but the lifestyle is still sinful in the eyes of the church which is more interested in the salvation of their souls than their civil rights.

Which is where separation of church and state comes in.   To my reading, the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment allows for civil unions.    I doubt that most religions will endorse it for a few more decades.

[Billy Hoyle]

I'm sure that there were probably some fine arts requirements too, but my minor was within fine arts, so I'm not sure what other students had to do.

Oh yeah, Fine Arts.  I took Acting for Non Theatre Majors and Rony Eford was in my class.

My wife was BUS and they did not have to take a foreign language. In fact, BUS was where most hoops players ended up to avoid that requirement.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So much for that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/pope-same-sex-unions-licit/2021/03/15/8c51ee80-8581-11eb-be4a-24b89f616f2c_story.html

It says that same-sex unions are "not ordered to the Creator's plan." It says acknowledging those unions is "illicit." It says that God "cannot bless sin."

This is an example of the church not following Jesus' teachings in the gospel but rather the interpretations of men made after Jesus' time.

And there's a difference between being "anti-LGBT" and saying that priests cannot bless same sex unions. Pope Francis has moved the church in the correct direction, back towards Jesus' message of undiscriminating love, but organizations as old as the Church can only move so fast. I am hopeful that we will see blessed same-sex unions in my lifetime.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Here is Biz Ad today. Very different and scaled back on liberal arts and many are optional/elective.

https://www.marquette.edu/explore/major-business-administration.php

These are major requirements. But don't all students have to fulfill their core curriculum requirements?

https://bulletin.marquette.edu/undergrad/marquettecorecurriculum/#requirementstext

These seem to be very heavily focused on liberal arts.

[Dr. Blackheart]

These are major requirements. But don't all students have to fulfill their core curriculum requirements?

https://bulletin.marquette.edu/undergrad/marquettecorecurriculum/#requirementstext

These seem to be very heavily focused on liberal arts.

That appears to be a significant reduction in liberal arts from what I listed (including Western Civ). My only business classes my first two years was two Accounting modules, mostly to weed people out. I didn't get into my major (Business) into junior year.

With the common liberal arts foundation, you expected to master those 7 areas before you moved onto your major. In many ways it was utilitarian in that you could pick the major you discovered along that journey. Today, if I switched from Business to Engineering after sophomore year, I'd would have wasted two years, for example.

I would say the closest to providing a "Catholic Education" in the traditional sense today are the Marianists. Fluffy or some other pros here can correct me.

Btw, looking back, these were some of my most memorable classes while at MU.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

That appears to be a significant reduction in liberal arts from what I listed (including Western Civ). My only business classes my first two years was two Accounting modules, mostly to weed people out. I didn't get into my major (Business) into junior year.

With the common liberal arts foundation, you expected to master those 7 areas before you moved onto your major. In many ways it was utilitarian in that you could pick the major you discovered along that journey. Today, if I switched from Business to Engineering after sophomore year, I'd would have wasted two years, for example.

I would say the closest to providing a "Catholic Education" in the traditional sense today are the Marianists. Fluffy or some other pros here can correct me.

Btw, looking back, these were some of my most memorable classes while at MU.

Interesting. It looks like you took 18 liberal arts courses and the current core requires 10 but I would imagine most majors contain at least a few classes that focus on the liberal arts. I'm passionate about the liberal arts and would hate to see MU lose that part of its identity. I personally don't think they have but it's certainly not as heavy of a focus as it once was. What the best balance is, I'm not certain. Thanks for the perspective.

[The Sultan]

I would say the closest to providing a "Catholic Education" in the traditional sense today are the Marianists. Fluffy or some other pros here can correct me.

Oh I am hardly a curriculum pro, but here is Dayton's Common Academic Program.

http://catalog.udayton.edu/undergraduate/cap/requirements/

Now this may look like a lot.  But many courses in their major can count toward this program.  And some courses actually count toward two CAP requirements.  So I have no idea how this actually plays out when you go there and pick a major.  But what I like about it is that it gets rid of the "checkbox" style of a core curriculum, and shows how the liberal arts play a role in your major.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Depended on the major when I was there, class of 2015.

In some Health Science majors you didn't have to take anything. No math, only one Theo, no language, no fine arts, two english and that was about all.

In Arts and Science it was one math, two languages, Two theo one science. Common core classes have really quite dropped off significantly from what I remember.

[cheebs09]

I think AP classes cover some of those requirements too. So not all may be taken at MU.

[Billy Hoyle]

Oh I am hardly a curriculum pro, but here is Dayton's Common Academic Program.

http://catalog.udayton.edu/undergraduate/cap/requirements/

Now this may look like a lot.  But many courses in their major can count toward this program.  And some courses actually count toward two CAP requirements.  So I have no idea how this actually plays out when you go there and pick a major.  But what I like about it is that it gets rid of the "checkbox" style of a core curriculum, and shows how the liberal arts play a role in your major.

Here's ND:

The Notre Dame Core Curriculum

Six Courses in the General Liberal Arts
Liberal Arts 1: Quantitative Reasoning
Liberal Arts 2: Science & Technology
Liberal Arts 3: Quantitative Reasoning or Science & Technology
Liberal Arts 4: Art & Literature, or Advanced Language & Culture
Liberal Arts 5: History or Social Science
Liberal Arts 6: Integration or Way of Knowing not yet chosen from 4 or 5
Four Courses Exploring Explicitly Catholic Dimensions of the Liberal Arts
Theology 1: Foundational
Theology 2: Developmental
Philosophy 1: Introductory
Philosophy 2 or CAD: Philosophy elective or Catholicism and the Disciplines

Two Courses in Writing
Writing 1: University Seminar*
Writing 2: Writing & Rhetoric or Other Writing-Intensive Course

Moreau First Year Experience
Moreau: One two-semester course
(this is a program that helps new students to integrate their academic, co-curricular, and residential experiences)

[muwarrior69]

This is an example of the church not following Jesus' teachings in the gospel but rather the interpretations of men made after Jesus' time.

And there's a difference between being "anti-LGBT" and saying that priests cannot bless same sex unions. Pope Francis has moved the church in the correct direction, back towards Jesus' message of undiscriminating love, but organizations as old as the Church can only move so fast. I am hopeful that we will see blessed same-sex unions in my lifetime.

So you are saying the Pope signed off on a decree to which he is opposed and does not believe that same sex unions are illicit and sinful?  Jesus' message of undiscriminating love is the love where he died and rose again so that we who believe in Him will be redeemed of our sins. That love and sex are the same are interpretations of men made after Jesus' time.

[Galway Eagle]

So you are saying the Pope signed off on a decree to which he is opposed and does not believe that same sex unions are illicit and sinful?  Jesus' message of undiscriminating love is the love where he died and rose again so that we who believe in Him will be redeemed of our sins. That love and sex are the same are interpretations of men made after Jesus' time.

...but the lifestyle is still sinful in the eyes of the church which is more interested in the salvation of their souls than their civil rights.

This is what happens when the pope recognizes genuinely being a good person vs what the teachings of the church are. They cannot say it isn't a sin within the church. They're instructing their followers to be good people and not discriminate against them.

This isn't a complicated thought process

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So you are saying the Pope signed off on a decree to which he is opposed and does not believe that same sex unions are illicit and sinful?  Jesus' message of undiscriminating love is the love where he died and rose again so that we who believe in Him will be redeemed of our sins. That love and sex are the same are interpretations of men made after Jesus' time.

I don't think I said anything about sex and love being the same thing. If you could point to where in the gospel Jesus says anything condemning same sex relationships, I would love to read it.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Oh yeah, Fine Arts.  I took Acting for Non Theatre Majors and Rony Eford was in my class.

My wife was BUS and they did not have to take a foreign language. In fact, BUS was where most hoops players ended up to avoid that requirement.

'89-93 BUS there was absolutely a foreign language requirement. I was able to test out of it as I had four years of German in HS and was fluent at the time.

[Viper]

This is an example of the church not following Jesus' teachings in the gospel but rather the interpretations of men made after Jesus' time.

And there's a difference between being "anti-LGBT" and saying that priests cannot bless same sex unions. Pope Francis has moved the church in the correct direction, back towards Jesus' message of undiscriminating love, but organizations as old as the Church can only move so fast. I am hopeful that we will see blessed same-sex unions in my lifetime.

how does blessed same-sex unions jive with 1Cor 6:9-10 or Gal. 5:19, to offer two passages on the subject.  Jesus' love does not discriminate, so true. However, "the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God". -NIV   If we are to follow the word of God, the teachings of Christ, we can't have it two ways. Love our brothers and sisters in Christ, but not, in some instances, the lifestyle. Same sex union, marriage, however you want to label or define it, cannot be blessed if following true to scripture.

[The Sultan]

how does blessed same-sex unions jive with 1Cor 6:9-10 or Gal. 5:19, to offer two passages on the subject.  Jesus' love does not discriminate, so true. However, "the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God". -NIV   If we are to follow the word of God, the teachings of Christ, we can't have it two ways. Love our brothers and sisters in Christ, but not, in some instances, the lifestyle. Same sex union, marriage, however you want to label or define it, cannot be blessed if following true to scripture.

We always pick the scripture that suits our point of view and not vice versa. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

how does blessed same-sex unions jive with 1Cor 6:9-10 or Gal. 5:19, to offer two passages on the subject.  Jesus' love does not discriminate, so true. However, "the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God". -NIV   If we are to follow the word of God, the teachings of Christ, we can't have it two ways. Love our brothers and sisters in Christ, but not, in some instances, the lifestyle. Same sex union, marriage, however you want to label or define it, cannot be blessed if following true to scripture.

Galatians and Corinthians are Paul's words,  not Jesus' no?

[muwarrior69]

I don't think I said anything about sex and love being the same thing. If you could point to where in the gospel Jesus says anything condemning same sex relationships, I would love to read it.

Jesus never condemned slavery, but that does not mean he condoned it either. Illicit sex such as adultery was punishable by death, unthinkable today, yet He told the adulteress after shaming the crowd that no one is without sin, to go and sin no more. As a Jew and rabbi I can safely conclude that Jesus would not condone sodomy or homosexuality, but like the adulteress neither condemn them for their sin. He was in the business of saving souls not condemning them.

[Viper]

We always pick the scripture that suits our point of view and not vice versa.

are you implying that's what I'm doing? I'm not. I don't.

[rocky_warrior]

Guys, if you want to talk about Lovell, Marquette, Catholicism, and what the faith means to Marquette, great.  But the interpretation of the scripture (preaching) is a bit much.  Thanks.