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OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel by BM1090
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Date/Time: Oct 15, 2021, 6:00pm?
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Author Topic: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel  (Read 63722 times)

Billy Hoyle

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #50 on: March 01, 2021, 11:43:30 AM »
Underestimating Barry’s ego is a risky proposition. I don’t think it sat well with him Bo forced his hand.

It would be a bold move, but not one that would shock me based on how Gard was hired.

you're telling me a guy who parks in front of a statue of himself and has his autograph on the driver side door of his car has an ego?
What, you still throwing up bricks? What is this, a Masons convention? Clank, clank! I need, like, a welding torch to play in this league! I got an idea, let's just stop right now and gather up all these bricks and let's build a shelter for the homeless so maybe your mother will have a place to stay

MUDPT

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #51 on: March 01, 2021, 11:46:33 AM »
There is no chance that Stevens returns to CBB for a job that isn’t even close to top 5 in its own conference.

Stevens told Nate Oats that if he would return to college, it would be at a school with a major football team. The spotlight would be on basketball from January to March. Why I think he would be more keen at ND versus IU. I do not think ND is in the same stratosphere as IU for basketball.

MUDPT

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #52 on: March 01, 2021, 11:48:10 AM »
Maybe, but I suspect Scott Drew will get a lot of run.  Pat Forde wrote a piece at SI about that potential fit.  Drew has done a wonderful job in Waco.  Not sure what he wants moving forward but there is some sense in that marriage

Drew makes sense at IU, but lots of bad blood from the Crean/ Parrera stuff 10 years ago. I think Drew at Kentucky makes more sense when Cal hangs it up.

MU82

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #53 on: March 01, 2021, 12:16:54 PM »
Of course Alvarez should fire Gard.

Aren't folks here saying that Marquette should have seen every "red flag" and fired Wojo as many as 5 years ago?

Well, here's to ya, Greg Gard ...

Losing record in Year 3 - red flag.

No NCAA tournament wins in 4 years - red flag.

18-point NCAAT loss (as 5-seed) to Oregon in 2019 - red flag.

Missed out on the Hausers -- TWICE! -- red flag.

Lost Tyler Herro to Kentucky - red flag.

Red weinies on numerous other top state recruits - red flag.

Losses to Richmond and New Mexico in last year's Legends Classic - red flag.

Blowout loss to NC State in last year's ACC-Big Ten Challenge - red flag.

Several lopsided defeats this season, his 6th as head coach - red flag.

And the biggest red flag of all: 2-3 vs Wojo - RED EFFEN FLAG!

Shouldn't Alvarez stop ignoring all those red flags? Shouldn't Gard get the ax?
Welcome to Marquette, Shaka. Be a warrior!

WarriorPride68

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #54 on: March 01, 2021, 12:18:00 PM »
Gard to MU. Donedeal

Uncle Rico

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #55 on: March 01, 2021, 12:30:22 PM »
Of course Alvarez should fire Gard.

Aren't folks here saying that Marquette should have seen every "red flag" and fired Wojo as many as 5 years ago?

Well, here's to ya, Greg Gard ...

Losing record in Year 3 - red flag.

No NCAA tournament wins in 4 years - red flag.

18-point NCAAT loss (as 5-seed) to Oregon in 2019 - red flag.

Missed out on the Hausers -- TWICE! -- red flag.

Lost Tyler Herro to Kentucky - red flag.

Red weinies on numerous other top state recruits - red flag.

Losses to Richmond and New Mexico in last year's Legends Classic - red flag.

Blowout loss to NC State in last year's ACC-Big Ten Challenge - red flag.

Several lopsided defeats this season, his 6th as head coach - red flag.

And the biggest red flag of all: 2-3 vs Wojo - RED EFFEN FLAG!

Shouldn't Alvarez stop ignoring all those red flags? Shouldn't Gard get the ax?

In Gard’s defense, the Badgers didn’t win a national title during the Carter administration to sell his program
How many

CountryRoads

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #56 on: March 01, 2021, 12:40:49 PM »
Badgers have a massive rebuild coming. Not sure they will have the pieces for next year to compete if all the seniors leave, which I think they will as they seem to be regressing.

MU82

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #57 on: March 01, 2021, 12:52:37 PM »
Here is The Athletic's lead on the Archie Miller situation ...

By now, the five national championship banners that hang in Assembly Hall are gathering dust, a lot of it. They almost seem to be mocking the modern-day Hoosiers, as if to say, “See what you used to be? You used to be a blue blood, a powerhouse, a program that routinely competed for national championships. And now look at you, all haggard and lowly, guaranteed your fourth sub-.500 conference season in five years.”

Nearly four full years into head coach Archie Miller’s spectacularly ordinary tenure, the Hoosiers, whose name used to mean something in college basketball, seem a million miles and a lot of years away from being any kind of contender again — either in the Big Ten or nationally. Except for the early Tom Crean years, when the former coach was forced to play anybody who had a pulse and a pair of sneakers, IU (12-12, 7-10) has never been so utterly irrelevant or felt further away from glory than it does now.

The natives are understandably restless, their anger rapidly turning to apathy, and the question must be asked and addressed:

Does Scott Dolson, the new IU athletic director, pull the plug on Miller?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 01:20:08 PM by MU82 »
Welcome to Marquette, Shaka. Be a warrior!

MUBurrow

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #58 on: March 01, 2021, 01:12:37 PM »
Do folks think Archie's record at IU makes the job Crean di there look better in retrospect? Or do you see the two as pretty unrelated/not comparable?

Silkk the Shaka

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #59 on: March 01, 2021, 01:27:10 PM »
I'm sure IU is ready to return to the Kelvin Sampson days. Then they can hire Wojo to clean it up and return to the Tom Crean days. Full circle!

LOL

tower912

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #60 on: March 01, 2021, 01:27:36 PM »
Crean had to rebuild a program that was in shambles in so many ways.   Not enough players, academic issues, Davis and Sampson generating a lot of bad press.  He accomplished that, but he could never get over the hump the way Hoosier nation demanded.

Miller was not the first choice.   He has been a meh coach.   The problem for IU is the same as for MU.  There aren't that many great coaches out there.   And times have changed.   
  Bobby Knight would probably struggle today, just like Al.   Wouldn't have the state of Indiana locked down like Al wouldn't get the cracked sidewalks kids.
    Crean's record is his record.   Adequate, not great.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

shoothoops

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #61 on: March 01, 2021, 01:43:32 PM »
Crean had to rebuild a program that was in shambles in so many ways.   Not enough players, academic issues, Davis and Sampson generating a lot of bad press.  He accomplished that, but he could never get over the hump the way Hoosier nation demanded.

Miller was not the first choice.   He has been a meh coach.   The problem for IU is the same as for MU.  There aren't that many great coaches out there.   And times have changed.   
  Bobby Knight would probably struggle today, just like Al.   Wouldn't have the state of Indiana locked down like Al wouldn't get the cracked sidewalks kids.
    Crean's record is his record.   Adequate, not great.

Lately, I often think of Jaden Ivey when I think of hoops in the state of Indiana.

His mom was the top assistant (now Head Coach) for the successful Notre Dame Women's team. Jaden was an up and coming high school two guard without offers. He attends Purdue's camp, and Matt Painter offers him on the spot after camp, his first big offer. He accepts the offer.

Quietly Jaden is averaging just under 10 points and 4 rebounds a game, as Freshman, for a top 25 team.


MU82

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #62 on: March 01, 2021, 01:53:56 PM »
Crean had to rebuild a program that was in shambles in so many ways.   Not enough players, academic issues, Davis and Sampson generating a lot of bad press.  He accomplished that, but he could never get over the hump the way Hoosier nation demanded.

Miller was not the first choice.   He has been a meh coach.   The problem for IU is the same as for MU.  There aren't that many great coaches out there.   And times have changed.   
  Bobby Knight would probably struggle today, just like Al.   Wouldn't have the state of Indiana locked down like Al wouldn't get the cracked sidewalks kids.
    Crean's record is his record.   Adequate, not great.

It depends upon how one defines "struggle," but there's no question Knight would struggle today compared to his own lofty standards.

His last 6 seasons at Indiana, he won 2 NCAAT games. And in his 6 full seasons at Texas Tech, he won 3.

So one of the most accomplished coaches in college basketball history won a grand total of 5 NCAA tournament games - getting to the second weekend once - in his last 12+ seasons.

There are too many outstanding coaches who don't choke and shove and scream relentlessly at athletes. Why would the today's best players willingly play for a bully and ogre?

I'm biased, but I like to think Al would have adjusted to the times pretty well. At his core, he was a "player's coach" before that term existed.

Bobby? He was a dinosaur right till the end, when he handed his dreadfully unqualified son a sh!tty program midway through the season because he knew it was the only way Pat could ever get a P6 job.
Welcome to Marquette, Shaka. Be a warrior!

MUfan12

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #63 on: March 01, 2021, 01:55:52 PM »
Crean had to rebuild a program that was in shambles in so many ways.   Not enough players, academic issues, Davis and Sampson generating a lot of bad press.  He accomplished that, but he could never get over the hump the way Hoosier nation demanded.

Had his shot in 2013 with Oladipo and Zeller and was undone by the zone. Always struggled with it at MU too.

That said, I think MU would have beaten that Indiana team.
 

tower912

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #64 on: March 01, 2021, 02:25:23 PM »
He did struggle again at the zone.   My wife is a Hoosier.   It would tick her off when I would call out what Crean was about to do.  And when they played Syracuse and I explained in advance why they were going to get beat, and then it played out basically like I predicted...well, naturally she blamed me.    Silent treatment.   Mixed blessing.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

MU82

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #65 on: March 01, 2021, 02:29:58 PM »
That said, I think MU would have beaten that Indiana team.

Me too. My wife and I were there in DC for that regional, and we very much wanted to see Buzz's gang get a shot at Crean.

Welcome to Marquette, Shaka. Be a warrior!

TAMU Eagle

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #66 on: March 01, 2021, 02:34:19 PM »
May be for the best that we didn't get to play Indiana. I don't think this board could have handled it either way.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Galway Eagle

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #67 on: March 01, 2021, 02:42:34 PM »
May be for the best that we didn't get to play Indiana. I don't think this board could have handled it either way.

If we'd lost that game against IU this board would have exploded in anger. Still with it would've happened.
Mayo for Sam

Marq3332

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #68 on: March 01, 2021, 04:56:30 PM »
It depends upon how one defines "struggle," but there's no question Knight would struggle today compared to his own lofty standards.

His last 6 seasons at Indiana, he won 2 NCAAT games. And in his 6 full seasons at Texas Tech, he won 3.

So one of the most accomplished coaches in college basketball history won a grand total of 5 NCAA tournament games - getting to the second weekend once - in his last 12+ seasons.

There are too many outstanding coaches who don't choke and shove and scream relentlessly at athletes. Why would the today's best players willingly play for a bully and ogre?

I'm biased, but I like to think Al would have adjusted to the times pretty well. At his core, he was a "player's coach" before that term existed.

Bobby? He was a dinosaur right till the end, when he handed his dreadfully unqualified son a sh!tty program midway through the season because he knew it was the only way Pat could ever get a P6 job.
...if I had been any good as a HS player and Coach Knight called...when he was at IU, that is, i’d sign. Absolutely. No question. Most of the guys that played for him, from those teams in the ‘70’s thru his TT days, love him.

tower912

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #69 on: March 01, 2021, 05:52:01 PM »
Other than the ones he choked, threw things at, and ran off before it was fashionable.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

JWags85

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #70 on: March 01, 2021, 05:57:24 PM »
Stevens told Nate Oats that if he would return to college, it would be at a school with a major football team. The spotlight would be on basketball from January to March. Why I think he would be more keen at ND versus IU. I do not think ND is in the same stratosphere as IU for basketball.

I don’t think Stevens goes to IU. But I just don’t see ND. Outside of it being Indiana, it’s the 3rd best BB job in the state and well down the pecking order in its conference. Florida or Texas I could see. Not ND

MU82

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #71 on: March 01, 2021, 06:08:31 PM »
...if I had been any good as a HS player and Coach Knight called...when he was at IU, that is, i’d sign. Absolutely. No question. Most of the guys that played for him, from those teams in the ‘70’s thru his TT days, love him.

He didn't stop winning big at IU because he suddenly forgot how to coach. He didn't only win 5 NCAAT games in his last 12 seasons because he suddenly forgot how to coach.

He stopped having second-weekend-and-better level success because he could no longer recruit the kind of athletes he got in the 1970s and '80s. Instead, he got guys like you, who were happy to sign on with the great Bobby Knight but who maybe weren't Isiah Thomas. (No insult intended; maybe you woulda been Isiah Thomas good if not for that foot injury.)

Yes, many of his players, even in his later years, said they got a lot out of playing for him. Unfortunately for him, not that many of those guys were the elite players who helped him build his legend. Right until the end, he was a good enough coach to turn decent, hard-working players into NCAA teams. But he wasn't good enough to turn teams full of less-than-great players into Final Four squads.

Great players simply said, "I don't need to get abused to get to the Final Four and to make the NBA. I have other choices."
Welcome to Marquette, Shaka. Be a warrior!

JWags85

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #72 on: March 01, 2021, 06:39:51 PM »
He didn't stop winning big at IU because he suddenly forgot how to coach. He didn't only win 5 NCAAT games in his last 12 seasons because he suddenly forgot how to coach.

He stopped having second-weekend-and-better level success because he could no longer recruit the kind of athletes he got in the 1970s and '80s. Instead, he got guys like you, who were happy to sign on with the great Bobby Knight but who maybe weren't Isiah Thomas. (No insult intended; maybe you woulda been Isiah Thomas good if not for that foot injury.)

Yes, many of his players, even in his later years, said they got a lot out of playing for him. Unfortunately for him, not that many of those guys were the elite players who helped him build his legend. Right until the end, he was a good enough coach to turn decent, hard-working players into NCAA teams. But he wasn't good enough to turn teams full of less-than-great players into Final Four squads.

Great players simply said, "I don't need to get abused to get to the Final Four and to make the NBA. I have other choices."

I think Knight would have had the same problems even if he wasn’t prone to aggressiveness and bullying. His decline also coincided with the rise of AAU ball and player centric development. And it’s not a “these damn youths” it’s just how the game moved.

 Look at many of the great IU players under Knight. Classic Indiana HS style coaches kids like Alford or Indiana kids who were gonna lean towards staying in state.  Of the top 15 scorers in IU history, I think 2 are from out of state. Tough coaching, discipline, etc... were just ingrained. Trying to sell that style of basketball, even with a gentler style of coaching, is tougher when guys aren’t planning on sticking around 4 years and haven’t planned to since they were 14. Just changing of the times

Uncle Rico

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #73 on: March 01, 2021, 07:19:27 PM »
I see no way they make a move unless something behind the scenes going on. Message board smoke if anything “There is actually some trouble brewing in Madison that i am not at liberty to go into right now.”

Curious where you’ve seen or heard this
How many

Lennys Tap

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Re: OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel
« Reply #74 on: March 01, 2021, 10:16:49 PM »


I'm biased, but I like to think Al would have adjusted to the times pretty well. At his core, he was a "player's coach" before that term existed.


IDK, Mike. Al cared about his players (so did Knight) but he  (like Knight) demanded discipline and playing “his way”. I don’t know that he put his hands around any player’s neck, but he was involved in two all out fist fights with players that I know about - and likely more that stayed “in house”. How coaches coached (and how players expected to be coached) was very different then. Al was only 47 and on top of the coaching world when he got out. Hard to “change” under those circumstances and maybe Al was self aware enough to know that. I absolutely revered the guy but if he would have coached for 23 more years instead of going the broadcasting route he wouldn’t be the universally loved figure that he is today. But we would have had multiple National Championships.

 

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