MU Basketball Program

[Galway Eagle]

A college education is really important to a fringe player, someday he might need a degree

And marquette offers lifetime scholarships so he can always come back and get it. He won't always be able to make a crap ton of money relative to his age playing a game he loves.

Again now days there's only two reasons if you're going to be a pro of some kind to stay in college. 1. Publicity 2. Because you have an emotional connection (school, desire for a final four, coach, GF, etc)

[MU82]

I thought we rebounded well.  I also thought Mamu had an unusually poor game and SH did a poor job.attacking the rim.  We' may have statistically defended well but The Hall's sloppy turns and poor shot selection contributed to it.  I also think there is a wide range of actual contested shots.  Perhaps I am biased because I am extremely frustrated with our record but this is a flawed defensive and offensive team.

I actually think Wojo and his assistants deserve a lot of credit for the defensive game plan against Mamu. We attacked him aggressively, often with a double-team, every time he picked up the ball on the wing. It led to most of his 6 turnovers, and it played a big role in keeping SH's offense from ever really getting untracked.

I also thought the improvement in rebounding from the previous game, despite us missing our second-leading rebounder, was notable.

See, I don't think it's mutually exclusive to praise some of the good things we do while also being critical overall of Wojo and his assistants. All of the above wasn't good enough yesterday, and that's partly to mostly on Wojo; and it continues a pattern, which is definitely on Wojo, the architect of this flawed team.

[BCHoopster]

And marquette offers lifetime scholarships so he can always come back and get it. He won't always be able to make a crap ton of money relative to his age playing a game he loves.

Again now days there's only two reasons if you're going to be a pro of some kind to stay in college. 1. Publicity 2. Because you have an emotional connection (school, desire for a final four, coach, GF, etc)

Not sure he will make any money in the NBA next year or getting 30K in the G league is anything special.  If he wants to go overseas, he can do that.  Not sure what a fringe player will make over there.  Best is come back to MU and improve.

[hairy worthen]

Marquette:
2/14 Guarded Threes
1/11 Unguarded Threes

Seton Hall:
3/11 Guarded Threes
1/4 Unguarded Threes

Mugsy, you keep saying Marquette didn't play good defense and it was just Seton Hall missing shots. It's simply not true. The numbers above from Synergy tell the tale. Marquette only surrendered 4 unguarded threes all game. Meanwhile, Seton Hall gave up 11 unguarded threes, all but one of them to guys who shoot over 35% on the season. Story of the game yesterday was that Marquette played good defense but couldn't hit Lake Michigan from Bradford Beach.

It doesn't matter. Wojo has let the program backslide too much since last February, he still needs to go. But be honest about what happened yesterday.

Watching the game I thought SH was playing like garbage and what an opportunity to steal a win. I never thought SH was playing like garbage because of Marquette's defense. It is difficult to quantify and probably a little of both. The numbers you cited really dont tell  much about how the game was played.

[MU82]

Watching the game I thought SH was playing like garbage and what an opportunity to steal a win. I never thought SH was playing like garbage because of Marquette's defense. It is difficult to quantify and probably a little of both. The numbers you cited really dont tell  much about how the game was played.

So you don't think the game plan to aggressively double-team Mamu forced most if not all of his 6 turnovers, which derailed their offense much of the day? It's OK if you don't; reasonable people can disagree.

[BCHoopster]

Watching the game I thought SH was playing like garbage and what an opportunity to steal a win. I never thought SH was playing like garbage because of Marquette's defense. It is difficult to quantify and probably a little of both. The numbers you cited really dont tell  much about how the game was played.

Bottom line if you are 3-25 from three, you are not going to beat anybody no matter how they play.

[Galway Eagle]

Not sure he will make any money in the NBA next year or getting 30K in the G league is anything special.  If he wants to go overseas, he can do that.  Not sure what a fringe player will make over there.  Best is come back to MU and improve.

He's better than minimum salary in the GLeague for sure which is 35k. Let's say he's at 50 then that puts him above pretty much all non stem college grads right away. Not to mention you didn't point out why it's better for him to develop over a summer of short non full team coaching sessions and a couple of weeks before the season of full team. Vs being able to do full time coaching and training all offseason.

[hairy worthen]

So you don't think the game plan to aggressively double-team Mamu forced most if not all of his 6 turnovers, which derailed their offense much of the day? It's OK if you don't; reasonable people can disagree.

I'm not sure, it's not that clear cut. Maybe. You dont think Mamu gets pressured in other games?  I can think of 2 plays for sure where he forced a shot. I think combination of good defense and poor play from SH. BChoopster said it Marquette shooting 3 for 25 from three is the reason they lost.

[BCHoopster]

He's better than minimum salary in the GLeague for sure which is 35k. Let's say he's at 50 then that puts him above pretty much all non stem college grads right away. Not to mention you didn't point out why it's better for him to develop over a summer of short non full team coaching sessions and a couple of weeks before the season of full team. Vs being able to do full time coaching and training all offseason.

I just see a better benefit in staying in school, improve and become a first round pick worth $5M or so.  The G league is not a bigger stage then college ball.  Take your
team to the tournament, will get you more press than a G league player.  Go watch a G league game to see how bad it is.

[The Sultan]

Marquette:
2/14 Guarded Threes
1/11 Unguarded Threes

Seton Hall:
3/11 Guarded Threes
1/4 Unguarded Threes

Mugsy, you keep saying Marquette didn't play good defense and it was just Seton Hall missing shots. It's simply not true. The numbers above from Synergy tell the tale. Marquette only surrendered 4 unguarded threes all game. Meanwhile, Seton Hall gave up 11 unguarded threes, all but one of them to guys who shoot over 35% on the season. Story of the game yesterday was that Marquette played good defense but couldn't hit Lake Michigan from Bradford Beach.

It doesn't matter. Wojo has let the program backslide too much since last February, he still needs to go. But be honest about what happened yesterday.

This is it.  Exactly.  Marquette's defense was very good.  Marquette's offense also got its players open shots.  Hard to blame that on coaching.

[Johnny B]

There is not a college athletics program, or a basketball program, social media account in the country that avoids publishing or updating team news/results/highlights out of fear of negative responses from fans or alumni.  Zero.  Requesting our MUBB social media to not "tag" players in postgame results declare that our program (our coaches, our players, our families) simply cannot be mature enough to handle such an audience or vehicle for communication.  Should the school eject fans that boo at home games too?  (The obvious answer is no as well). 

There is zero consequence to a fan on social media to criticizing a player or coach on social media.  None.  However, players can be suspended, disciplined and/or kicked off team for what they post and what they say to these fans on social media.  It is what it is.  Marquette cannot change that, the athletic department cannot change that and our basketball program cannot change that. 

Our players (and parents) need to be better.  Period.  None of them will change those opinions of fans.  They need to handle it better.

virginia didnt make an  update on facebook after umbc

[GoldenWarrior11]

virginia didnt make an  update on facebook after umbc

https://twitter.com/UVAMensHoops/status/974851502828376064?s=20

UVA Men's Basketball still did a postgame Tweet about the loss and they did not block or ban any of their fan's negative reactions to it.  From re-reading that post and the replies, I do not see any player or parent respond negatively to a fan or alum that voiced their frustrations.   

[Herman Cain]

And marquette offers lifetime scholarships so he can always come back and get it. He won't always be able to make a crap ton of money relative to his age playing a game he loves.

Again now days there's only two reasons if you're going to be a pro of some kind to stay in college. 1. Publicity 2. Because you have an emotional connection (school, desire for a final four, coach, GF, etc)

If a player is fundamentally sound at all skills ,and has the requisite athleticism , a case can be made that this type of  player can then hone one or more or his skills to the elite level ( which is what is required to play in the NBA) better in a professional setting.

However , if a player has some significant holes in their fundamentals it is much better to address those deficiencies at the college level. The reps in collegiate game settings are helpful to that self improvement process .

[BrewCity83]

https://twitter.com/UVAMensHoops/status/974851502828376064?s=20

UVA Men's Basketball still did a postgame Tweet about the loss and they did not block or ban any of their fan's negative reactions to it.  From re-reading that post and the replies, I do not see any player or parent respond negatively to a fan or alum that voiced their frustrations.   

Apples to oranges.  Virginia is a top-20 team, defending national champion, ACC conference leading team that does not have weeks and years of pent-up frustrations.  One bad loss, so what?  Shake it off and win the next one.

That's not where we are.

[cheebs09]

Apples to oranges.  Virginia is a top-20 team, defending national champion, ACC conference leading team that does not have weeks and years of pent-up frustrations.  One bad loss, so what?  Shake it off and win the next one.

That's not where we are.

That was the loss when they lost to a 16 seed.

[BrewCity83]

That was the loss when they lost to a 16 seed.

I'm not saying it's not a bad loss, but it's not close to where we are.  Hard to compare the where fan bases mindsets are in these two situations. 

As a Marquette fan, I would trade where we are now for where UVA was then:  a #1 seed that lost to a #16, then they have a top seeded team with a great coach coming back next year and then go on to win a Natty.  And you all would make that trade too.  I just don't think you can compare fan reactions in those two situations.

[Billy Hoyle]

"Human up?"

Good grief.

Maybe it was like the Congressman who ended a prayer "awoman."

"

This is it.  Exactly.  Marquette's defense was very good.  Marquette's offense also got its players open shots.  Hard to blame that on coaching.

At some point you tell DJ to stop passing out to the perimeter after penetrating to the rim. Or maybe that was the game plan?

[The Sultan]

At some point you tell DJ to stop passing out to the perimeter after penetrating to the rim. Or maybe that was the game plan?

He broke down the defense and got them wide open shots.  Taking it to the hole when you have their long, rim protectors was probably not the best strategy. 

Maybe Seton Hall felt that collapsing on the driver and take their chances letting Jamal and Dawson bomb from deep was the best way to go.  And it worked.

[GoldenWarrior11]

I'm not saying it's not a bad loss, but it's not close to where we are.  Hard to compare the where fan bases mindsets are in these two situations. 

As a Marquette fan, I would trade where we are now for where UVA was then:  a #1 seed that lost to a #16, then they have a top seeded team with a great coach coming back next year and then go on to win a Natty.  And you all would make that trade too.  I just don't think you can compare fan reactions in those two situations.

I brought up the UVA loss because a poster said they didn't post about it on Facebook. They still did the normal post-game tweet on Twitter. They did not block fans, players did not go after fans and parents did not go after fans.

Again, no program censors itself out of fear of what the community response will be, so the notion that the MUBB social media accounts need not post after losses is a laughably bad take.

(And this is not to you, Brew. This is to those that think the contrary).

[MuggsyB]

I brought up the UVA loss because a poster said they didn't post about it on Facebook. They still did the normal post-game tweet on Twitter. They did not block fans, players did not go after fans and parents did not go after fans.

Again, no program censors itself out of fear of what the community response will be, so the notion that the MUBB social media accounts need not post after losses is a laughably bad take.

(And this is not to you, Brew. This is to those that think the contrary).

Agreed G-Warrior.

[The Sultan]

I brought up the UVA loss because a poster said they didn't post about it on Facebook. They still did the normal post-game tweet on Twitter. They did not block fans, players did not go after fans and parents did not go after fans.

Again, no program censors itself out of fear of what the community response will be, so the notion that the MUBB social media accounts need not post after losses is a laughably bad take.

(And this is not to you, Brew. This is to those that think the contrary).

I don't think anyone suggested they shouldn't post after losses.  I believe it was said that they shouldn't tag players in such posts.

[GoldenWarrior11]

I don't think anyone suggested they shouldn't post after losses.  I believe it was said that they shouldn't tag players in such posts.

MUBB should absolutely stop posting on social media.    At this point, there is zero upside, tons of down.

[The Sultan]

Oh never mind then. 

[mu_hilltopper]

Yep, I did.   Just let the pitch sail by. 

There's no law that says you need to do social media even when it hurts your brand.  Oh noes, some twitter trolls will call you out for not posting bad news?  Heavens to Betsy.

[skianth16]

He's better than minimum salary in the GLeague for sure which is 35k. Let's say he's at 50 then that puts him above pretty much all non stem college grads right away. Not to mention you didn't point out why it's better for him to develop over a summer of short non full team coaching sessions and a couple of weeks before the season of full team. Vs being able to do full time coaching and training all offseason.

DJ could probably leave Marquette and get paid to play basketball somewhere next year. I think a lot of people would agree with that. Whether that's the best thing for him as a player and as a person is always hard to determine. But for a kid like DJ who's gone through a lot of changes and challenges in the last 18 months, it's worth thinking about the personal impact of leaving. Especially leaving for a situation where basketball is a business.

I would bet that a lot of college coaches note how different the professional life is vs. the student life. Being a D1 basketball player has a lot of nice perks. A guy like DJ is well known on campus and in Milwaukee, he's spending time in some of the very best facilities, he's getting a lot of attention from a coaching staff that wants him to succeed (because they can't cut him like a pro team can), etc. There are lot of positives to sticking with the amateur route for a guy looking to make a jump to the next level at some point. Does a 50K salary offset all that? For some, yes, for some, definitely not.