MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: curbina on February 14, 2021, 06:12:30 PM

Title: MU Basketball Program
Post by: curbina on February 14, 2021, 06:12:30 PM
How many years has Wojo set this program back? One example that I can think of is ILLINI Basketball, after around 14 years the program is staring to make a come back. The damage that Wojo has done is just awful! What kind of administrator (Michael Lovell) would let this nightmare drag on for 7 long years?
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on February 14, 2021, 06:18:17 PM
Theo is now telling fans to STFU on Twitter.  Dumpster fire...
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Jockey on February 14, 2021, 06:18:56 PM
Attention seeking.

If you want to comment on Wojo, there are a dozen different threads already here.

(This is for Curbina, not Golden Warrior.)
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 14, 2021, 06:25:40 PM
Duz anythin' good ever come outta Twitter, hey?
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 79Warrior on February 14, 2021, 06:29:45 PM
Duz anythin' good ever come outta Twitter, hey?

Ask the Don
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 14, 2021, 06:32:47 PM
Since you brought it up... Theo John painted himself into a corner with his comments at the beginning of the season. I guess what goes around, comes around, hey?
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: goldeneagle91114 on February 14, 2021, 06:33:54 PM
Theo is now telling fans to STFU on Twitter.  Dumpster fire...

Can you screenshot for those of us not on Twitter?
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 14, 2021, 06:35:15 PM
You don't have to have a twitter account to see twitter:

https://twitter.com/Theojohn123/status/1361105638693208064
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: panda on February 14, 2021, 06:35:30 PM
Can you screenshot for those of us not on Twitter?

Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on February 14, 2021, 06:37:28 PM
A fan replied to the MU account saying "Who even cares anymore?"

Theo replied: "We do... have some faith or stfu. Respectfully."
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MuggsyB on February 14, 2021, 06:40:08 PM
Theo is now telling fans to STFU on Twitter.  Dumpster fire...

This is disappointing.  There is no fan base of any high D-1 program that wouldn't be venting about what we've seen year after year after year. This isn't 4th grade peewee baseball.  And I did think for the most  part guys played hard today but it's honestly irrelevant.  It's analogous to trying hard in a Calculus class but still getting an F.  Now obviously a normal student isn't scrutinized like a D-1 ball-player, especially today, but fans are not robots or mommy and daddy.  It was a nasty and unnecessary comment by a fan but when you put yourself out there you are going to read these kind of things.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: TheREALwrk on February 14, 2021, 06:42:12 PM
Duz anythin' good ever come outta Twitter, hey?


Lol what comments might you be talking about?
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: hairy worthen on February 14, 2021, 06:43:34 PM
Since you brought it up... Theo John painted himself into a corner with his comments at the beginning of the season. I guess what goes around, comes around, hey?
Never a good idea to give ultimatums to your fans. Not a good look. 
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: hairy worthen on February 14, 2021, 06:52:49 PM
This is disappointing.  There is no fan base of any high D-1 program that wouldn't be venting about what we've seen year after year after year. This isn't 4th grade peewee baseball.  And I did think for the most  part guys played hard today but it's honestly irrelevant.  It's analogous to trying hard in a Calculus class but still getting an F.  Now obviously a normal student isn't scrutinized like a D-1 ball-player, especially today, but fans are not robots or mommy and daddy.  It was a nasty and unnecessary comment by a fan but when you put yourself out there you are going to read these kind of things.
I didnt think the fan's comment was nasty in any way. Theo's comment was uncalled for and makes him look like a martyr. I get it, he plays hard and probably takes it to heart, but not a good idea to alleniate your fans at any level
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: WarriorPride68 on February 14, 2021, 06:53:55 PM
Hey, Theo said respectfully - show some respect  8-)
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: wadesworld on February 14, 2021, 06:55:28 PM
He answered the guy’s question.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: hairy worthen on February 14, 2021, 06:56:51 PM
Hey, Theo said respectfully - show some respect  8-)
Ha, thats like the person who says "good for you" which really means FU
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: TheREALwrk on February 14, 2021, 07:00:04 PM
Never a good idea to give ultimatums to your fans. Not a good look.

Lol.. an ultimatum? That implies Theo has any control over the fan. Grow up.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on February 14, 2021, 07:00:48 PM
Non-issue, not even worth making it into one.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Silent Verbal on February 14, 2021, 07:02:41 PM
Al McGuire said a team is a reflection of its coach.  No surprise Wojo’s guys are thin-skinned, hey?
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: TheREALwrk on February 14, 2021, 07:03:12 PM
Non-issue, not even worth making it into one.

Couldn't agree more. The boomers on this board  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: hairy worthen on February 14, 2021, 07:05:37 PM
Lol.. an ultimatum? That implies Theo has any control over the fan. Grow up.
Ok daddy
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on February 14, 2021, 07:06:07 PM
Al McGuire said a team is a reflection of its coach.  No surprise Wojo’s guys are thin-skinned, hey?

This is so dumb. 
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Silent Verbal on February 14, 2021, 07:06:38 PM
This is so dumb.

Yeah?  Why?
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: wadesworld on February 14, 2021, 07:09:04 PM
This is so dumb.

Yes.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on February 14, 2021, 07:09:09 PM
Yeah?  Why?

You're insinuating the entire team is thin-skinned.  That's dumb.  Pretty simple. 
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on February 14, 2021, 07:16:07 PM
Since you brought it up... Theo John painted himself into a corner with his comments at the beginning of the season. I guess what goes around, comes around, hey?

One can either choose to stand with Theo or not. It’s fine to choose not to, but Theo certainly isn’t to blame for that choice.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: wadesworld on February 14, 2021, 07:17:28 PM
Don’t ask questions you won’t like the answers to.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on February 14, 2021, 07:19:59 PM
The team is short on talent and certainly short on coaching but I haven't seen any evidence of the guys quitting.  Sometimes we forget this season, Covid included, has been tough and frustrating on them as well. 
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MuggsyB on February 14, 2021, 07:30:27 PM
I didnt think the fan's comment was nasty in any way. Theo's comment was uncalled for and makes him look like a martyr. I get it, he plays hard and probably takes it to heart, but not a good idea to alleniate your fans at any level

Maybe nasty isn't the right word but I thought it was unnecessary.  But you're right, Theo's comment looks bad.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: hairy worthen on February 14, 2021, 07:32:53 PM
Maybe nasty isn't the right word but I thought it was unnecessary.  But you're right, Theo's comment looks bad.
Yes definitely unneccessary. Sad that it has gotten to this point.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 14, 2021, 07:34:31 PM
Since you brought it up... Theo John painted himself into a corner with his comments at the beginning of the season. I guess what goes around, comes around, hey?


Yet you're still here.  Amazing.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on February 14, 2021, 07:37:11 PM
The team is short on talent and certainly short on coaching but I haven't seen any evidence of the guys quitting.  Sometimes we forget this season, Covid included, has been tough and frustrating on them as well.

Well said
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: muwarrior97 on February 14, 2021, 07:37:21 PM
Maybe the players should take all their anger and frustration with us stupid tweeter/forum whiners and show us.....show us how you are good and can ball, ball the F$$K out y’all!! Let’s Go!!!

#ShowUs
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Viper on February 14, 2021, 07:38:37 PM
One can either choose to stand with Theo or not. It’s fine to choose not to, but Theo certainly isn’t to blame for that choice.
but to reply as he did? Really? Weak sauce.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on February 14, 2021, 07:52:10 PM
but to reply as he did? Really? Weak sauce.

Perhaps. I don’t find anything wrong with Theo’s or the other guy’s comments. Theo is frustrated, we ALL understand that. Theo is one of us and has never given a half hearted effort. He has never shown a single moment that he doesn’t care. If I were him, I’d probably feel a little rubbed, too. He has earned the benefit of the doubt, especially from us, and some room to be an early 20 something year old. It has nothing to do with what Theo said at the beginning of the year. That is the weak sauce.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: wadesworld on February 14, 2021, 07:55:23 PM
The irony of Scoopers calling Wojo and the team thin skinned and then being offended by Theo’s Tweet is rich.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on February 14, 2021, 07:59:17 PM
The irony of Scoopers calling Wojo and the team thin skinned and then being offended by Theo’s Tweet is rich.

Well said. Empathy goes a long way.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: NCMUFan on February 14, 2021, 08:03:49 PM
Going 18 for 60 isn't going to win you many games.
Cain 3 of 13.
Dawson 0 for 6.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: TheREALwrk on February 14, 2021, 08:05:13 PM
The irony of Scoopers calling Wojo and the team thin skinned and then being offended by Theo’s Tweet is rich.

Could not agree more.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 14, 2021, 08:06:26 PM
The irony of Scoopers calling Wojo and the team thin skinned and then being offended by Theo’s Tweet is rich.


They are so very fragile.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: TheREALwrk on February 14, 2021, 08:10:04 PM
Could not agree more.

4ever and his shtick is really getting old here.

And honestly a lot of this boomer schtick is. 18-22 Year old kids can be more than just athletes. Their stance on politics have zero impact on the results on the court.

Happy to expound more if anyone cares to disagree but the attitude from this board toward a great group of kids (OUTSIDE OF BASKETBALL) is disgusting.

Comment away on basektball. Outside of that, STFU.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: tower912 on February 14, 2021, 08:12:06 PM
Theo has for four years represented Marquette far better than a lot of scoopers.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: hairy worthen on February 14, 2021, 08:12:50 PM
4ever and his shtick is really getting old here.

And honestly a lot of this boomer schtick is. 18-22 Year old kids can be more than just athletes. Their stance on politics have zero impact on the results on the court.

Happy to expound more if anyone cares to disagree but the attitude from this board toward a great group of kids (OUTSIDE OF BASKETBALL) is disgusting.

Comment away on basektball. Outside of that, STFU.
"Good for you"
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Badgerhater on February 14, 2021, 08:14:05 PM
MU has recruited some fine people to the program, it is criminal to have their talents wasted under this coach.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Silent Verbal on February 14, 2021, 08:15:26 PM
The irony of Scoopers calling Wojo and the team thin skinned and then being offended by Theo’s Tweet is rich.

I'm not "offended" by Theo's tweet.  I just think it was really stupid for him reply to some random fan's thoughtless "who even cares" comment.  This is big time college basketball, and I'm sure these guys are told time and again not to engage with fans in such a manner on social media.  As a senior leader, Theo should know better.  All he's doing is bringing more negative attention to an already bad situation.  It's not a great look for the program.

Outside of Chico, you have been Wojo's biggest acolyte on this board for years, and were a big time jerk to anyone who dared question his greatness.  And now that there is absolutely zero to be positive about in terms of Wojo, your only move is to criticize posters whose opinions you disagree with, probably because you're feeling salty about being so wrong in regards to all that "we got our guy" stuff.  Very soon, maybe in the next month but *definitely* sometime between now and March 2022, Wojo will no longer be our coach.  It was a bad hire, and it just didn't work out.  And when he's gone, I'm not sure how you're going to handle it.  My guess is you'll head to Kohl's and buy up all the red you possibly can.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: HutchwasClutch on February 14, 2021, 08:16:31 PM
I see Mrs Carton chimed in. She’s all class isn’t she?  She’s the one incredibly thin skinned and then attacks a guy trying to keep things civil.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on February 14, 2021, 08:20:26 PM
I'm not "offended" by Theo's tweet.  I just think it was really stupid for him reply to some random fan's thoughtless "who even cares" comment.  This is big time college basketball, and I'm sure these guys are told time and again not to engage with fans in such a manner on social media.  As a senior leader, Theo should know better.  All he's doing is bringing more negative attention to an already bad situation.  It's not a great look for the program.

Actually this is an 18-22 young man first. Perhaps as a senior leader he is standing up for his team. He is an outstanding young man and representative of MU. He is not bringing any negative attention to the situation, other people are choosing to make it negative. Perhaps that’s where the “not a good look” should be focused.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 14, 2021, 08:22:34 PM
I see Mrs Carton chimed in. She’s all class isn’t she?  She’s the one incredibly thin skinned and then attacks a guy trying to keep things civil.


She really needs to stop responding.  It doesn't look good at all.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: hairy worthen on February 14, 2021, 08:23:34 PM
I'm not "offended" by Theo's tweet.  I just think it was really stupid for him reply to some random fan's thoughtless "who even cares" comment.  This is big time college basketball, and I'm sure these guys are told time and again not to engage with fans in such a manner on social media.  As a senior leader, Theo should know better.  All he's doing is bringing more negative attention to an already bad situation.  It's not a great look for the program.

Outside of Chico, you have been Wojo's biggest acolyte on this board for years, and were a big time jerk to anyone who dared question his greatness.  And now that there is absolutely zero to be positive about in terms of Wojo, your only move is to criticize posters whose opinions you disagree with, probably because you're feeling salty about being so wrong in regards to all that "we got our guy" stuff.  Very soon, maybe in the next month but *definitely* sometime between now and March 2022, Wojo will no longer be our coach.  It was a bad hire, and it just didn't work out.  And when he's gone, I'm not sure how you're going to handle it.  My guess is you'll head to Kohl's and buy up all the red you possibly can.
Exactly,  not offended either, just saying it's not a good look, but at the same time I understand the frustration.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: panda on February 14, 2021, 08:25:14 PM
This is an absolute dumpster fire
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 14, 2021, 08:26:45 PM
And the frustrations aren't that this is just one bad year.  This is the third straight year of a late season collapse, and it's doubtful that there is going to be a change this off-season. 
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: willie warrior on February 14, 2021, 08:27:05 PM
Duz anythin' good ever come outta Twitter, hey?
No  nothing does  but there are many clowns that are obsessed with it.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: wadesworld on February 14, 2021, 08:29:17 PM
I'm not "offended" by Theo's tweet.  I just think it was really stupid for him reply to some random fan's thoughtless "who even cares" comment.  This is big time college basketball, and I'm sure these guys are told time and again not to engage with fans in such a manner on social media.  As a senior leader, Theo should know better.  All he's doing is bringing more negative attention to an already bad situation.  It's not a great look for the program.

Outside of Chico, you have been Wojo's biggest acolyte on this board for years, and were a big time jerk to anyone who dared question his greatness.  And now that there is absolutely zero to be positive about in terms of Wojo, your only move is to criticize posters whose opinions you disagree with, probably because you're feeling salty about being so wrong in regards to all that "we got our guy" stuff.  Very soon, maybe in the next month but *definitely* sometime between now and March 2022, Wojo will no longer be our coach.  It was a bad hire, and it just didn't work out.  And when he's gone, I'm not sure how you're going to handle it.  My guess is you'll head to Kohl's and buy up all the red you possibly can.

You seem very thin skinned.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: tower912 on February 14, 2021, 08:31:13 PM
Social media sucks.   Especially when you are the brunt of fans' frustration.    And it is easy to say that players and their families should stay off of it.

Family members of players have posted here.  We had a mom whose daughter dated a player who was the brunt of fans' frustration.

The Dieners still remember and hold a grudge toward Murf for calling Travis a dime a dozen point guard.

Mother Hauser never forgot how Wisconsin fan treated her sons.

Mrs. Buzz scanned message boards.

There was a reddit thread pointing out racism on MU message boards.



Words have consequences.   All over the place.   Players, families, and their friends read message boards and social media.  Real people with real lives and real feelings.

It is a frustrating season.   For everyone involved.   But these young amateur athletes are doing their best to represent the university most of us went to.   They don't suck.   
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: WarriorPride68 on February 14, 2021, 08:32:01 PM
I see Mrs Carton chimed in. She’s all class isn’t she?  She’s the one incredibly thin skinned and then attacks a guy trying to keep things civil.

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/hVTouq08miyVo1a21m/giphy.gif)

Haven’t had this much twitter action since Holly Ellenson took the flamethrower to Wojo’s soul
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: withoutbias on February 14, 2021, 08:34:09 PM
Who’s the soft ass that made a burner today just to rip on the team? Even bringing race into it. Put your name out there if you’re going to do this garbage.

https://mobile.twitter.com/kyleMarqs/with_replies
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Johnny B on February 14, 2021, 08:34:37 PM
Theo has for four years represented Marquette far better than a lot of scoopers.
if were being serious if theo wasnt on our team nobody on here would like him. look at the words used on here to describe the seton hall big man. "punk" "thug". and why exactly. theo has given death stares, stood over people, and thrown elbows etc. now hes getting into twitter crap. whats so great about how he represents the uni? seems like any other guy
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 14, 2021, 08:37:00 PM
if were being serious if theo wasnt on our team nobody on here would like him. look at the words used on here to describe the seton hall big man. "punk" "thug". and why exactly. theo has given death stares, stood over people, and thrown elbows etc. now hes getting into twitter crap. whats so great about how he represents the uni? seems like any other guy


"Death stares?"  Oh my.  Better grab a blanket and a fainting couch. 
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: tower912 on February 14, 2021, 08:38:18 PM
Actually, I am a big fan of athletes who take social stances I agree with.   When they do that, after that my dislike stops at the edge of the court/field/arena.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 5DollarPitcher on February 14, 2021, 08:39:32 PM
Get ahold of your program Wojo. What a complete and utter failure. If he has any dignity left he’ll give back the $10m he robbed from Marquette over the last 7 years.

Marquette basketball is an embarrassment.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 5DollarPitcher on February 14, 2021, 08:41:51 PM
Actually, I am a big fan of athletes who take social stances I agree with.   When they do that, after that my dislike stops at the edge of the court/field/arena.
Haha so you’re just as biased as biased as everyone else. You need to stop playing the “moral high ground” card, buddy. You don’t have it.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MuggsyB on February 14, 2021, 08:42:49 PM
The team is short on talent and certainly short on coaching but I haven't seen any evidence of the guys quitting.  Sometimes we forget this season, Covid included, has been tough and frustrating on them as well.

"Not quitting" isn't too much to ask nor should it really be commended.  This is competitive sports. I understand the desire to be empathetic towards the players.  It's been a tough year for everyone and I do feel for these guys as well as all the kids now in college.   At the same time we don't praise anyone, including 18-22 year olds, for "not quitting" in whatever job they have or field of study they have chosen. 
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: tower912 on February 14, 2021, 08:43:32 PM
Lol.  Thanks for that $5.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: skianth16 on February 14, 2021, 09:04:06 PM
A fan replied to the MU account saying "Who even cares anymore?"

Theo replied: "We do... have some faith or stfu. Respectfully."

I've got to think Theo will get his hand slapped for that. Why respond to such a vanilla post? I'm actually surprised he hasn't been told to delete the post yet. If that's his reaction internally, that's fine, good even, but you can't share that thought when you're part of the public eye like he is. Being in the spotlight is a double-edged sword. MU's staff needs to remind the players of that.

Plus, what are we supposed to have faith in? This season is lost. No chance at the NCAA's, no chance at a winning conference record, and very likely we finish under. 500 for the year.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MU24 on February 14, 2021, 09:08:16 PM
so a "fan" asks who even cares, and a player answers, and people are getting bent outta shape?
Some of you need to find a hobby. A pandemic is a perfect time to find a hobby to explore that doesnt depend on anyone than yourself.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: NolongerWarriors on February 14, 2021, 09:09:22 PM
Theo's the same guy who told fans that didn't agree with his politics to not bother rooting for the team.  This is who he is.  I just wish he played as tough as he talked.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: goldeneagle91114 on February 14, 2021, 09:10:41 PM
Social media sucks.   Especially when you are the brunt of fans' frustration.    And it is easy to say that players and their families should stay off of it.

Family members of players have posted here.  We had a mom whose daughter dated a player who was the brunt of fans' frustration.

The Dieners still remember and hold a grudge toward Murf for calling Travis a dime a dozen point guard.

Mother Hauser never forgot how Wisconsin fan treated her sons.

Mrs. Buzz scanned message boards.

There was a reddit thread pointing out racism on MU message boards.



Words have consequences.   All over the place.   Players, families, and their friends read message boards and social media.  Real people with real lives and real feelings.

It is a frustrating season.   For everyone involved.   But these young amateur athletes are doing their best to represent the university most of us went to.   They don't suck.

Ok... enough is enough. Let’s separate being a good person, from playing good basketball. Since Wojo has arrived, he has brought nothing but upstanding young gentlemen into the program.

However, the product on the court speaks for itself, AND IT SUCKS. This is not just a one year anomaly. We’re in second to last place in the BEAST and the only team below us, beat us team at home.

There are millions of dollars being spent on these “amateur” athletes and program. If you can’t stand the brights lights then do what Ed Morrow did and quit.

Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on February 14, 2021, 09:12:55 PM
We have a player telling a fan to STFU. We have parent of a player telling fans not to watch. We have a coach that has a three-year streak of a collapse at the end of the season.

There is absolutely no way a change is not made in a few weeks. Unfortunately, with more expected losses upcoming, it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on February 14, 2021, 09:16:16 PM
I've got to think Theo will get his hand slapped for that. Why respond to such a vanilla post? I'm actually surprised he hasn't been told to delete the post yet. If that's his reaction internally, that's fine, good even, but you can't share that thought when you're part of the public eye like he is. Being in the spotlight is a double-edged sword. MU's staff needs to remind the players of that.

Plus, what are we supposed to have faith in? This season is lost. No chance at the NCAA's, no chance at a winning conference record, and very likely we finish under. 500 for the year.
Did you ever stop to think that the players and the coaches don’t give a flying unnatural carnal knowledge what you and I and all the other entitled POS fans think?  Probably can’t wrap your head around that can you? 
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MuggsyB on February 14, 2021, 09:16:21 PM
We have a player telling a fan to STFU. We have parent of a player telling fans not to watch. We have a coach that has a three-year streak of a collapse at the end of the season.

There is absolutely no way a change is not made in a few weeks. Unfortunately, with more expected losses upcoming, it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

So we're not going to run the table and win the BET? 
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MuggsyB on February 14, 2021, 09:17:33 PM
This is an absolute dumpster fire

Agreed.  There are 50 things or so off the top of my head that we need to fix.  :(
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Warrior🏀 on February 14, 2021, 09:23:42 PM
Who’s the soft ass that made a burner today just to rip on the team? Even bringing race into it. Put your name out there if you’re going to do this garbage.

https://mobile.twitter.com/kyleMarqs/with_replies

This KyleMarqs troll is gross. He's trolling other players, as well.  I just reported him on Twitter.  Suggest more of us do the same.

https://twitter.com/kyleMarqs/status/1361136528987144193
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: #UnleashSean on February 14, 2021, 09:24:02 PM
Quote from: Silent Verbal link=topic=61447.msg1309457#msg1309457

and were a big time jerk to anyone who dared question his greatness. 
[/quote

This is wades in literally any thread on scoop.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Warrior-Eagle on February 14, 2021, 09:27:40 PM
Theo's the same guy who told fans that didn't agree with his politics to not bother rooting for the team.  This is who he is.  I just wish he played as tough as he talked.

Your Mom should make sure she monitors your time on internet and your courageous comments reflects someone who hides behind his keyboard. You are an idiot and likely not an MU grad that suggests courage does not include making statements on and off the courts that Theo has made. Go back to Madison where you belong  where black students are less than 2 % of  students on campus.. including the football team.......
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: #UnleashSean on February 14, 2021, 09:29:18 PM
if were being serious if theo wasnt on our team nobody on here would like him. look at the words used on here to describe the seton hall big man. "punk" "thug". and why exactly. theo has given death stares, stood over people, and thrown elbows etc. now hes getting into twitter crap. whats so great about how he represents the uni? seems like any other guy


This is probably the cold hard truth honestly. At least in basketball. I have zero knowledge of him outside of the sport.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: skianth16 on February 14, 2021, 09:31:58 PM
Did you ever stop to think that the players and the coaches don’t give a flying unnatural carnal knowledge what you and I and all the other entitled POS fans think?  Probably can’t wrap your head around that can you?

They absolutely care. We are the only reason they have scholarships/jobs. Fans' opinions matter. Theo cared enough to respond to a random tweet with very little traction. Wojo cares enough that comments are now turned off on some of the official mubb channels.

Why do they play in the nicest basketball stadium in America? Why do these guys fly in chartered jets when they travel? Why does Wojo make millions? It's all because fans care enough to spend time and money to watch the team play.

Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on February 14, 2021, 09:32:01 PM
"Not quitting" isn't too much to ask nor should it really be commended.  This is competitive sports. I understand the desire to be empathetic towards the players.  It's been a tough year for everyone and I do feel for these guys as well as all the kids now in college.   At the same time we don't praise anyone, including 18-22 year olds, for "not quitting" in whatever job they have or field of study they have chosen.

I think the conversation about not quitting is in response to those who have called out the players for quitting. Basketball players should not be commended for not quitting, of course, but they can and should be defended if they aren’t when someone says they are. We should be empathetic all the time not just during Covid. That doesn’t mean we have to agree, or can’t criticize, or can’t ask questions, but it does me that we have no idea how Theo is feeling or what he is dealing with. Maybe he was rubbed because he is clearly injured/knicked and he went out there and busted his ass for us and our university, for himself, for his team. He is a young man first. A fellow member of the Marquette family. A young man who wants to make a difference. A young man who has worked harder at something than most will ever experience at a high level. He can be challenged for his decisions of trying to block everything, for not looking/passing opposite in the post, for unnecessary fouls. Remember he is a 20 something human being...first.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: #UnleashSean on February 14, 2021, 09:32:09 PM
I've got to think Theo will get his hand slapped for that. Why respond to such a vanilla post? I'm actually surprised he hasn't been told to delete the post yet. If that's his reaction internally, that's fine, good even, but you can't share that thought when you're part of the public eye like he is. Being in the spotlight is a double-edged sword. MU's staff needs to remind the players of that.

Plus, what are we supposed to have faith in? This season is lost. No chance at the NCAA's, no chance at a winning conference record, and very likely we finish under. 500 for the year.

The faith is hoping for a run in the bet? I guess? Were 9-12. All good faith is out the window for wojo.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: #UnleashSean on February 14, 2021, 09:35:39 PM
Your Mom should make sure she monitors your time on internet and your courageous comments reflects someone who hides behind his keyboard. You are an idiot and likely not an MU grad that suggests courage does not include making statements on and off the courts that Theo has made. Go back to Madison where you belong  where black students are less than 2 % of  students on campus.. including the football team.......


Wooooah, that's not a good look for a Marquette grad.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MarquetteMike1977 on February 14, 2021, 09:37:30 PM
This is an absolute dumpster fire

Agree. Marquette had TOP 10 Attendance in the Nation last 2 Years. Wish we had a Team to match. Frustrating and disappointing. Go Marquette.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: panda on February 14, 2021, 09:39:57 PM
Agree. Marquette had TOP 10 Attendance in the Nation last 2 Years. Wish we had a Team to match. Frustrating and disappointing. Go Marquette.

I was speaking more towards Theo and DJ’s mom getting on Twitter fights under the Marquette main account, but this is also accurate.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on February 14, 2021, 09:40:39 PM
They absolutely care. We are the only reason they have scholarships/jobs. Fans' opinions matter. Theo cared enough to respond to a random tweet with very little traction. Wojo cares enough that comments are now turned off on some of the official mubb channels.

Why do they play in the nicest basketball stadium in America? Why do these guys fly in chartered jets when they travel? Why does Wojo make millions? It's all because fans care enough to spend time and money to watch the team play.
This is rich. I hope this was supposed to be in teal
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 14, 2021, 09:40:51 PM
.. I just reported him on Twitter. 


You're kidding, right?
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: WarriorPride68 on February 14, 2021, 09:41:39 PM
Your Mom should make sure she monitors your time on internet and your courageous comments reflects someone who hides behind his keyboard. You are an idiot and likely not an MU grad that suggests courage does not include making statements on and off the courts that Theo has made. Go back to Madison where you belong  where black students are less than 2 % of  students on campus.. including the football team.......
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/13871fiv9kBfkQ/200.gif)
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: skianth16 on February 14, 2021, 09:48:41 PM
This is rich. I hope this was supposed to be in teal

So your take is that fans don't matter to sports teams? And that the economics of high-major basketball don't rely on fans being involved and invested?
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Warrior-Eagle on February 14, 2021, 09:56:47 PM
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/13871fiv9kBfkQ/200.gif)

A curious image of of a young African American from a 1968 graduate of MU regarding defending THEO as an advocate for his team.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: #UnleashSean on February 14, 2021, 09:58:20 PM
A curious image of of a young African American from a 1968 graduate of MU regarding defending THEO as an advocate for his team.

Can I have some? It's not legal here yet.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: wadesworld on February 14, 2021, 10:00:35 PM
[quote author=Silent Verbal link=topic=61447.msg1309457#msg1309457

and were a big time jerk to anyone who dared question his greatness. 


This is wades in literally any thread on scoop.

How are the hats coming along?
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on February 14, 2021, 10:00:40 PM
"Not quitting" isn't too much to ask nor should it really be commended.  This is competitive sports. I understand the desire to be empathetic towards the players.  It's been a tough year for everyone and I do feel for these guys as well as all the kids now in college.   At the same time we don't praise anyone, including 18-22 year olds, for "not quitting" in whatever job they have or field of study they have chosen.

You missed the point and what it was in response to. It was simply that while it's fair to question the talent, performance and coaching of  the team, questioning their heart and effort is baseless. In no way was I saying they should be praised for "not quitting".
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: HutchwasClutch on February 14, 2021, 10:03:58 PM
The irony of Scoopers calling Wojo and the team thin skinned and then being offended by Theo’s Tweet is rich.

No one is offended by John’s tweet. But it’s a horrible look for the university and program he represents.  Some here are honest enough to admit that.  It leaves  out Wades World of course because you’re never interested in any honest discourse.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MuggsyB on February 14, 2021, 10:09:42 PM
You missed the point and what it was in response to. It was simply that while it's fair to question the talent, performance and coaching of  the team, questioning their heart and effort is baseless. In no way was I saying they should be praised for "not quitting".

Okay. Fair enough VBMG.  We have an insane amount of work to do moving forward.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: connie on February 14, 2021, 10:12:25 PM
So far in response to criticism I see players telling fans that "if they don't like it don't watch" and "STFU," leading me to believe that the level of academics at my beloved MU is now equal to the level of in-game coaching.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MuggsyB on February 14, 2021, 10:15:38 PM
So far in response to criticism I see players telling fans that "if they don't like it don't watch" and "STFU," leading me to believe that the level of academics at my beloved MU is now equal to the level of in-game coaching.

Whoa....

That was a thunderous retort Connie!

Well played. 
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 21rooster on February 14, 2021, 10:31:32 PM
You're kidding, right?

Eh...if you look at all this guys tweets today, I don’t blame him for reporting.  Criticism of hoops is one thing - it changes when the conversation changes to race or saying a kid faked mental health issues.  That crosses the line. 
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: NorthernDancerColt on February 14, 2021, 10:38:28 PM
Okay. Fair enough VBMG.  We have an insane amount of work to do moving forward.

Insane amount of work, indeed Muggsy.

See my most recent post under the Northwestern thread.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MU82 on February 14, 2021, 10:44:00 PM
I like Theo and, to the best of my knowledge, he has represented Marquette well on and off the court. I am on his side.

Having said that, an athlete doesn't win these kinds of social-media fights. I wish Theo hadn't responded.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MuggsyB on February 14, 2021, 11:09:54 PM
I like Theo and, to the best of my knowledge, he has represented Marquette well on and off the court. I am on his side.

Having said that, an athlete doesn't win these kinds of social-media fights. I wish Theo hadn't responded.

Agreed.  It's also worth noting that fans have not been to Fiserv this season.  My gut feeling is that things would not be pretty in a full house the past few games.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: brewcity77 on February 15, 2021, 06:58:06 AM
The problem with social media here is whoever is running the @MarquetteMBB account. Everyone knows the program is a dumpster fire and yet they continue to tag the players in their posts. The reason Theo & Jen Carton were alerted to the responses was because Marquette's own social media manager tagged those accounts, which meant every response to the original tweet would also tag them unless the user went out of their way to remove those tags. Marquette should be smarter than that as they are opening up their players to abuse which leads to these kinds of interactions that make everyone involved look bad. Shame on Marquette for not being smarter than that.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Viper on February 15, 2021, 07:12:03 AM
The irony of Scoopers calling Wojo and the team thin skinned and then being offended by Theo’s Tweet is rich.
his right to communicate as he did. No one is saying he should be asked to walk. However, he reps MU wearing the uni.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Viper on February 15, 2021, 07:14:08 AM
4ever and his shtick is really getting old here.

And honestly a lot of this boomer schtick is. 18-22 Year old kids can be more than just athletes. Their stance on politics have zero impact on the results on the court.

Happy to expound more if anyone cares to disagree but the attitude from this board toward a great group of kids (OUTSIDE OF BASKETBALL) is disgusting.

Comment away on basektball. Outside of that, STFU.
ah, the bravado behind the keyboard.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: willie warrior on February 15, 2021, 07:18:20 AM
Difficult to see that MU is now at the bottom rung of BEast, near DePaul who kicked our ass. Ah yes, the state of MU basketball under the Duke wunderkind
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: warriors141 on February 15, 2021, 07:22:13 AM
When players engage with fans on twitter you know it is bad. "Don't like it, don't watch" yepI I have taken that advice, as are more and more fans. I have zero rooting interest in the coaches, players, or anyone involved in the program right now.

Not sure I know of any other athletic team telling its own fans not to watch, pretty foolish, but this is where we are at
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 15, 2021, 07:25:06 AM
MUBB should absolutely stop posting on social media.    At this point, there is zero upside, tons of down.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on February 15, 2021, 07:33:33 AM
MUBB should absolutely stop posting on social media.    At this point, there is zero upside, tons of down.

The program account or the players?  Silencing the program out of fear what the response will be makes the situation worse IMO.  Scholl just needs to tell the coaches and players not to respond to angry or frustrated fans.  You can't really do anything about a parent doing that.

Again, it will get worse in the next few weeks before it gets better. Everybody just needs to brace for it.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: cheebs09 on February 15, 2021, 07:49:10 AM
MUBB should absolutely stop posting on social media.    At this point, there is zero upside, tons of down.

I have enjoyed some of the posts that just say “Final.” And then have the graphic. They used to at least post a little blurb about the game.

I don’t understand MU tagging players. Heck, the coach has deleted his Twitter and in the past MU has disabled comments. It doesn’t take much to realize where the comments are going to go.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 15, 2021, 07:52:24 AM
Did you ever stop to think that the players and the coaches don’t give a flying unnatural carnal knowledge what you and I and all the other entitled POS fans think?  Probably can’t wrap your head around that can you? 

I mean, it kinda seems like they do care.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on February 15, 2021, 08:17:38 AM
Why is it thin skinned or some sort of negative that they care? Unless we are well disciplined Stoics or Buddhists, we all care, react emotionally, and are selfish. Why does Theo have to put up with our frustration but we can’t accept his? Yeah, posting on social media after a hard fought loss in response to a fan is likely never going to end well, but it is clearly understandable. If we don’t like it, we don’t have to support MU. Picking this social media reaction as a hill to die on is pretty thin skinned. That’s fine, of course, but call it what it is. The choice to weaponize this social media post against Theo, the players, is worth a little soul searching. The season has sucked, we don’t have to suck, too.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: brewcity77 on February 15, 2021, 08:35:26 AM
The point is Marquette shouldn't be deliberately putting them in the position to have to defend themselves from distraught fans. It's bad enough when we have DJ Newbill's coach, John Dawson's dad, or other family members coming on this site to get into spats with fans, the program itself shouldn't be creating or encouraging those interactions.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 15, 2021, 08:41:56 AM
The problem was the fan responded to the official MU Twitter account.  Then Theo went after the fan.  And then when the fan tried to scale it back, DJ's mom jumped in.

I mean sure the fan shouldn't have said what he said.  It was an emotional response to a frustrating time no doubt.  But Theo should have stayed out of it...and DJ's mom piling on when the OP was trying to scale back was really bad. 
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MuggsyB on February 15, 2021, 09:01:59 AM
The program account or the players?  Silencing the program out of fear what the response will be makes the situation worse IMO.  Scholl just needs to tell the coaches and players not to respond to angry or frustrated fans.  You can't really do anything about a parent doing that.

Again, it will get worse in the next few weeks before it gets better. Everybody just needs to brace for it.

This is a scary thought.  Suggestions?  How are you going to "brace" for something worse than yesterday and last  Wed vs Nova?  Are you saying we will plummet to further depths?  I thought this was rock bottom?  I will have to figure out how to prepare.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: panda on February 15, 2021, 09:06:28 AM
The problem was the fan responded to the official MU Twitter account.  Then Theo went after the fan.  And then when the fan tried to scale it back, DJ's mom jumped in.

I mean sure the fan shouldn't have said what he said.  It was an emotional response to a frustrating time no doubt.  But Theo should have stayed out of it...and DJ's mom piling on when the OP was trying to scale back was really bad.

It was a rather innocuous comment too, comparatively speaking.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on February 15, 2021, 09:13:37 AM
The point is Marquette shouldn't be deliberately putting them in the position to have to defend themselves from distraught fans. It's bad enough when we have DJ Newbill's coach, John Dawson's dad, or other family members coming on this site to get into spats with fans, the program itself shouldn't be creating or encouraging those interactions.

Marquette isn’t putting the players in a position to defend themselves, the fans are, and yeah maybe some player parents, too. I think we want the program to encourage and create interactions with the program and players. We love the feeling of being on the inside, in the know, close to the players, able to attend super secret stakeholder practices. That’s a reason why we love MU basketball. What should happen is fans should have more respect and dignity. Challenge, yes, disrespect, no. Question defensive scheme, yes. Challenge heart, no. This isn’t on Theo.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: NolongerWarriors on February 15, 2021, 09:13:55 AM
I don't know if other players do this since I don't follow any, but I saw Theo retweeted some of his individual highlights from the loss vs SH.  I can understand doing that if you win the game, but it looks a bit "me first" when the team loses the game and the season is a train wreck.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on February 15, 2021, 09:17:34 AM
This is a scary thought.  Suggestions?  How are you going to "brace" for something worse than yesterday and last  Wed vs Nova?  Are you saying we will plummet to further depths?  I thought this was rock bottom?  I will have to figure out how to prepare.

Well, we can still lose out.  We could still lose to DePaul again.  We can lose in the Wednesday game at the BET.  Each of those, separately, would cause frustrations and anger to spike, but all three? 

Look, after the St. John's loss (and that was after the DePaul and Providence losses), we were going to be underdogs in nearly all of the remaining games (we were favorites at home vs. Butler).  The collapsing trajectory after St. John's was very real and a strong possibility.  With how we have been playing and our continued struggles against conference competition, we very much need to play both a great 40 minutes of basketball coupled with our opponents playing below their standards just to win games (I actually was surprised we forced Seton Hall to devalue the basketball as much as we regularly do - but we aren't a strong outside shooting team, so unless John AND Garcia take over, it is still hard to do enough to win).
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on February 15, 2021, 09:19:28 AM
I don't know if other players do this since I don't follow any, but I saw Theo retweeted some of his individual highlights from the loss vs SH.  I can understand doing that if you win the game, but it looks a bit "me first" when the team loses the game and the season is a train wreck.

Of course personal social media accounts are selfish, but that doesn’t make them “me first” in the way I think you are implying. It’s for his family, friends, followers, memories, and yeah maybe a little STFU to those that question his heart. Even in a terrible latter half of the season, we have had some good moments, individually and collectively. Good on ya Theo.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MU82 on February 15, 2021, 09:26:52 AM
Marquette isn’t putting the players in a position to defend themselves, the fans are, and yeah maybe some player parents, too. I think we want the program to encourage and create interactions with the program and players. We love the feeling of being on the inside, in the know, close to the players, able to attend super secret stakeholder practices. That’s a reason why we love MU basketball. What should happen is fans should have more respect and dignity. Challenge, yes, disrespect, no. Question defensive scheme, yes. Challenge heart, no. This isn’t on Theo.

I really appreciate your tone and your optimism, and as I said earlier in this stream I am on Theo's side.

However, players simply can't win in this situation. There is zero potential upside for them and 100% potential downside.

I agree with what brew and Sultan have said this morning. Players should not be put in a position to have to defend themselves. There are ways of limiting negative interactions without shutting down social media, and Marquette should take advantage of those.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: brewcity77 on February 15, 2021, 09:30:43 AM
Marquette isn’t putting the players in a position to defend themselves, the fans are, and yeah maybe some player parents, too.

Yes they are. It's simple, don't tag the players. It's unnecessary & shouldn't have happened. And Marquette is aware, so I'll be interested to see how they handle it going forward.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: NolongerWarriors on February 15, 2021, 09:34:51 AM
I really appreciate your tone and your optimism, and as I said earlier in this stream I am on Theo's side.

However, players simply can't win in this situation. There is zero potential upside for them and 100% potential downside.

I agree with what brew and Sultan have said this morning. Players should not be put in a position to have to defend themselves. There are ways of limiting negative interactions without shutting down social media, and Marquette should take advantage of those.

But Theo wasn't defending himself.  The initial tweet wasn't directed at him, it was at the official MU account.  Theo sought out the confrontation.  And the OP wasn't attacking any player specifically or even generally.  Could not have been more gentle as far as "sports talk" goes on twitter.  And the guy (kind of cowardly, imo) walks back his remark, then Carton's mom gangs up on him, lol?  The entire MU bball program is a dumpster fire.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Lennys Tap on February 15, 2021, 09:37:34 AM
Fans are frustrated. So are players, coaches and parents. All understandable. But here’s the thing - telling a fan (“respectfully”, lol) to STFU on the heels of other demands he’s made to the Marquette faithful was immature at best. But that’s Twitter...
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 15, 2021, 09:43:12 AM
But Theo wasn't defending himself.  The initial tweet wasn't directed at him, it was at the official MU account.  Theo sought out the confrontation.  And the OP wasn't attacking any player specifically or even generally.  Could not have been more gentle as far as "sports talk" goes on twitter.  And the guy (kind of cowardly, imo) walks back his remark, then Carton's mom gangs up on him, lol?  The entire MU bball program is a dumpster fire.


Theo was tagged on the response because MU tagged him in the highlights.  So yes, MU put him in a position where he felt he needed to defend himself.  But IMO he shouldn't have engaged.  And DJ's mom's response was much worse.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MU82 on February 15, 2021, 09:44:14 AM
Fans are frustrated. So are players, coaches and parents. All understandable. But here’s the thing - telling a fan (“respectfully”, lol) to STFU on the heels of other demands he’s made to the Marquette faithful was immature at best. But that’s Twitter...

This.


Theo was tagged on the response because MU tagged him in the highlights.  So yes, MU put him in a position where he felt he needed to defend himself.  But IMO he shouldn't have engaged.  And DJ's mom's response was much worse.

And this.

Players and parents can't win in these situations.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on February 15, 2021, 09:44:43 AM
There is not a college athletics program, or a basketball program, social media account in the country that avoids publishing or updating team news/results/highlights out of fear of negative responses from fans or alumni.  Zero.  Requesting our MUBB social media to not "tag" players in postgame results declare that our program (our coaches, our players, our families) simply cannot be mature enough to handle such an audience or vehicle for communication.  Should the school eject fans that boo at home games too?  (The obvious answer is no as well). 

There is zero consequence to a fan on social media to criticizing a player or coach on social media.  None.  However, players can be suspended, disciplined and/or kicked off team for what they post and what they say to these fans on social media.  It is what it is.  Marquette cannot change that, the athletic department cannot change that and our basketball program cannot change that. 

Our players (and parents) need to be better.  Period.  None of them will change those opinions of fans.  They need to handle it better. 
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: shoothoops on February 15, 2021, 09:46:41 AM
The problem with social media here is whoever is running the @MarquetteMBB account. Everyone knows the program is a dumpster fire and yet they continue to tag the players in their posts. The reason Theo & Jen Carton were alerted to the responses was because Marquette's own social media manager tagged those accounts, which meant every response to the original tweet would also tag them unless the user went out of their way to remove those tags. Marquette should be smarter than that as they are opening up their players to abuse which leads to these kinds of interactions that make everyone involved look bad. Shame on Marquette for not being smarter than that.

I agree with this.

I don't really see the fuss or big deal with regards to Theo etc ..a college kid with a tweet he or she would like back, that isn't ideal, but not exactly extreme either.

A better strategy would be for MU Social Media to read the room better and not tag players on tweets. And of course for it would be better for players to have a better awareness. But this twitter stuff, unless it gets very extreme in some way, is pretty far down my list of concerns and priorities. Is this really any different than fans etc ..saying something to a player at a game, on the street, at a bar or party? Sure it's captured in writing. But the content here from Theo for example didn't register too high on my big deal scale. I'm a bit surprised and taken aback by some of the response.

Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: jesmu84 on February 15, 2021, 09:47:05 AM
Folks on this board: "we love Al cause he was a badass who didn't take crap from anyone and who didn't back down in any situation. He said what he wanted"

Same folks: "I can't believe Theo said something insulting. That's such a bad look for a MU rep"
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MU82 on February 15, 2021, 09:48:39 AM
Folks on this board: "we love Al cause he was a badass who didn't take crap from anyone and who didn't back down in any situation. He said what he wanted"

Same folks: "I can't believe Theo said something insulting. That's such a bad look for a MU rep"

Well ... Al did have a little better record to back up his bad-assery than Theo has. And I say that as somebody who has appreciated Theo's contribution to Marquette.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: NolongerWarriors on February 15, 2021, 09:48:46 AM

Theo was tagged on the response because MU tagged him in the highlights.  So yes, MU put him in a position where he felt he needed to defend himself.  But IMO he shouldn't have engaged.  And DJ's mom's response was much worse.

Defend himself from what?

A fan implying most other fans have tuned out and lost interest?  I don't think his post can be interpreted as implying the team or any player has given up.

I do agree that the MUbball account is doing about as well as the team, though.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Lennys Tap on February 15, 2021, 09:59:36 AM
Folks on this board: "we love Al cause he was a badass who didn't take crap from anyone and who didn't back down in any situation. He said what he wanted"

Same folks: "I can't believe Theo said something insulting. That's such a bad look for a MU rep"

Al was a grown man who held strong opinions. He was not shy about sharing them. But he never insulted any Marquette fan, never told them to “see things my way or go away”. Or to STFU.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on February 15, 2021, 10:01:12 AM
I really appreciate your tone and your optimism, and as I said earlier in this stream I am on Theo's side.

However, players simply can't win in this situation. There is zero potential upside for them and 100% potential downside.

I agree with what brew and Sultan have said this morning. Players should not be put in a position to have to defend themselves. There are ways of limiting negative interactions without shutting down social media, and Marquette should take advantage of those.

Thanks, and I hear you for sure. Why is it about the players winning or losing? He is human, he reacted. I get the argument that players should be held to a higher standard, that they should not engage with frustrated fans (candidly, as I have said, I have no issue with either the original fan or Theo), and that they should shut up and dribble. I just disagree. Theo has every right to step up and defend himself, he will have to deal with any program/school consequences. MU is highlighting the good performances in an otherwise poor latter half of the season. I would rather that than commiserating (which I absolutely do, it’s a difficult habit to break. I can’t quit you MU!).

I am really just saying there is so much passing the buck, passing the blame/responsibility to others. Human up, take responsibility. And, when we are talking about a 22-year old young man, we have to allow for him to be emotional, frustrated, immature. I can hear it now, well then Theo should have to human up and take responsibility, be more mature, don’t tell a fan to STFU, don’t blame the fan. I get it. But, we have total control over how we react to this. Why not make it a chance to show our empathy, our care for Theo. He is learning, and he’s pissed. That’s a difficult situation for anyone to be in.

I think MU should continue to highlight performers and tag the players in their posts. I think players should refrain from addressing any post they deem negative. I think Ms. Carton should be praised for supporting her son and be told what she is doing is not benefitting that same son she seems to strongly want to support. I think fans should be better humans.

We Are Marquette!
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 15, 2021, 10:04:15 AM
If Carton's dreams are to be an NBA player is his mom going to spend her days attacking every nut job that trolls those accounts? Because at least most MU fans are college educated, she's going to be in for a different level of terrible responses from some of the Pro fans.

Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on February 15, 2021, 10:05:28 AM
Folks on this board: "we love Al cause he was a badass who didn't take crap from anyone and who didn't back down in any situation. He said what he wanted"

Same folks: "I can't believe Theo said something insulting. That's such a bad look for a MU rep"

Al, for better or worse, did not have to live during the social media age.  Our current coaches, players and parents do. 

This same standards can be applied to a variety of industries and individuals; it's not just MU-related.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MuggsyB on February 15, 2021, 10:13:15 AM
Well, we can still lose out.  We could still lose to DePaul again.  We can lose in the Wednesday game at the BET.  Each of those, separately, would cause frustrations and anger to spike, but all three? 

Look, after the St. John's loss (and that was after the DePaul and Providence losses), we were going to be underdogs in nearly all of the remaining games (we were favorites at home vs. Butler).  The collapsing trajectory after St. John's was very real and a strong possibility.  With how we have been playing and our continued struggles against conference competition, we very much need to play both a great 40 minutes of basketball coupled with our opponents playing below their standards just to win games (I actually was surprised we forced Seton Hall to devalue the basketball as much as we regularly do - but we aren't a strong outside shooting team, so unless John AND Garcia take over, it is still hard to do enough to win).

3-25 from distance and a goose egg from Garcia isn't going to get it done. That includes a combined 1-17 from those not named Carton.  I don't think we can shoot worse than that.  The only reason the game was competitive is because the Hall had 10 turns in the 1st half and couldn't hit a shot as well.   I thought it was as poor a game of basketball as you'll see, not good defense. 

We cannot play worse offensively than we did yesterday.  The fact remains that Butler, DePaul, UCONN, and XU are all very, very, beatable.  I expect these guys to compete but am always concerned about turnovers, execution,  and poise down the stretch.  If we were to lose out, which is possible, it would be worse.  Especially if we are not competitive.  I dunno why but I think we will find a way to squeeze out another win or two.  Having slept on it I feel our opponents are so weak that we will find a way....probably twice.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on February 15, 2021, 10:18:39 AM
Muggsy
From your lips to God's ear, as they say
I'm still hoping for a win or two if just for the young men's sake. I know they must be just as frustrated as we are.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: NolongerWarriors on February 15, 2021, 10:25:15 AM
Thanks, and I hear you for sure. Why is it about the players winning or losing? He is human, he reacted. I get the argument that players should be held to a higher standard, that they should not engage with frustrated fans (candidly, as I have said, I have no issue with either the original fan or Theo), and that they should shut up and dribble. I just disagree. Theo has every right to step up and defend himself, he will have to deal with any program/school consequences. MU is highlighting the good performances in an otherwise poor latter half of the season. I would rather that than commiserating (which I absolutely do, it’s a difficult habit to break. I can’t quit you MU!).

I am really just saying there is so much passing the buck, passing the blame/responsibility to others. Human up, take responsibility. And, when we are talking about a 22-year old young man, we have to allow for him to be emotional, frustrated, immature. I can hear it now, well then Theo should have to human up and take responsibility, be more mature, don’t tell a fan to STFU, don’t blame the fan. I get it. But, we have total control over how we react to this. Why not make it a chance to show our empathy, our care for Theo. He is learning, and he’s pissed. That’s a difficult situation for anyone to be in.

I think MU should continue to highlight performers and tag the players in their posts. I think players should refrain from addressing any post they deem negative. I think Ms. Carton should be praised for supporting her son and be told what she is doing is not benefitting that same son she seems to strongly want to support. I think fans should be better humans.

We Are Marquette!

"Human up?"

Good grief.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on February 15, 2021, 10:27:16 AM
"Human up?"

Good grief.

Said it specifically to see if someone would say this. Good grief indeed.

On a side note, can’t win if we can’t make buckets.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: NolongerWarriors on February 15, 2021, 10:33:46 AM
Said it specifically to see if someone would say this. Good grief indeed.

On a side note, can’t win if we can’t make buckets.

You said something absurd to get a reaction?
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on February 15, 2021, 10:38:07 AM
You said something absurd to get a reaction?

Sure did ish, absurd is an opinion, more of a indictment on how we think Theo should be mentally stronger for arbitrary reasons. And to show how easy it is to say something that we might not understand how others take it. I was putting myself in a hypocrital position, cause we all do. Honestly, I felt a little who the eff am I, my opinion is just that and no more important than anyone else. Probably a stretch connection, but I was trying something. Anyway, I wish we weren’t a dumpster fire.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MU82 on February 15, 2021, 10:51:24 AM
Thanks, and I hear you for sure. Why is it about the players winning or losing? He is human, he reacted. I get the argument that players should be held to a higher standard, that they should not engage with frustrated fans (candidly, as I have said, I have no issue with either the original fan or Theo), and that they should shut up and dribble. I just disagree. Theo has every right to step up and defend himself, he will have to deal with any program/school consequences. MU is highlighting the good performances in an otherwise poor latter half of the season. I would rather that than commiserating (which I absolutely do, it’s a difficult habit to break. I can’t quit you MU!).

I am really just saying there is so much passing the buck, passing the blame/responsibility to others. Human up, take responsibility. And, when we are talking about a 22-year old young man, we have to allow for him to be emotional, frustrated, immature. I can hear it now, well then Theo should have to human up and take responsibility, be more mature, don’t tell a fan to STFU, don’t blame the fan. I get it. But, we have total control over how we react to this. Why not make it a chance to show our empathy, our care for Theo. He is learning, and he’s pissed. That’s a difficult situation for anyone to be in.

I think MU should continue to highlight performers and tag the players in their posts. I think players should refrain from addressing any post they deem negative. I think Ms. Carton should be praised for supporting her son and be told what she is doing is not benefitting that same son she seems to strongly want to support. I think fans should be better humans.

We Are Marquette!

I respectfully disagree with much of this, and will leave it at that.

I do like your tone, and I do agree with your last paragraph.

We Are Marquette!
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on February 15, 2021, 11:35:26 AM
I respectfully disagree with much of this, and will leave it at that.

I do like your tone, and I do agree with your last paragraph.

We Are Marquette!

Sincerely appreciate the dialog. Disagreement brings about change, right?! Appreciate the “respectfully” but I assume that, no need to qualify.

Man, I hope we improve, we have all had some great MU b-ball memories over the years. I just watched the DWade doc with my 14 yo son (who reminds me of DJ which is probably why I am biased to give DJ so much credit and leeway) and my wife and I reminisced about going to all the tourney games in 2003 including the final four. Good times!
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MU82 on February 15, 2021, 12:12:04 PM
Sincerely appreciate the dialog. Disagreement brings about change, right?! Appreciate the “respectfully” but I assume that, no need to qualify.

Man, I hope we improve, we have all had some great MU b-ball memories over the years. I just watched the DWade doc with my 14 yo son (who reminds me of DJ which is probably why I am biased to give DJ so much credit and leeway) and my wife and I reminisced about going to all the tourney games in 2003 including the final four. Good times!

Good times, indeed. And there will be more eventually!
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: BCHoopster on February 15, 2021, 12:18:52 PM
If Carton's dreams are to be an NBA player is his mom going to spend her days attacking every nut job that trolls those accounts? Because at least most MU fans are college educated, she's going to be in for a different level of terrible responses from some of the Pro fans.

Carton is not even close to be NBA ready, yes he has some good qualities, but at times he is just not tough enough with the ball in his hands or he makes a weak pass,
that will not be tolerated in the NBA.  The biggest weakness he has to work on this summer is a mid-range jump shot which he does not have at all.  Plus he has
to work on his right hand, very left handed dominant with his moves.  I think a good summer and 1 more year in college would be a great benefit to him.  Just do not
go the Vander Blue mistake.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 15, 2021, 12:22:39 PM
Carton is not even close to be NBA ready, yes he has some good qualities, but at times he is just not tough enough with the ball in his hands or he makes a weak pass,
that will not be tolerated in the NBA.  The biggest weakness he has to work on this summer is a mid-range jump shot which he does not have at all.  Plus he has
to work on his right hand, very left handed dominant with his moves.  I think a good summer and 1 more year in college would be a great benefit to him.  Just do not
go the Vander Blue mistake.

You're right he's not NBA ready. You're right about the things he definitely needs to work on. But unless he's invested in college publicity and experience there's no reason to stay.

There's plenty of minor leagues he can work on those things in without the restrictions of NCAA off season coaching time. Plus he'd get paid.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 15, 2021, 12:27:31 PM
3-25 from distance and a goose egg from Garcia isn't going to get it done. That includes a combined 1-17 from those not named Carton.  I don't think we can shoot worse than that.  The only reason the game was competitive is because the Hall had 10 turns in the 1st half and couldn't hit a shot as well.   I thought it was as poor a game of basketball as you'll see, not good defense. 

We cannot play worse offensively than we did yesterday.  The fact remains that Butler, DePaul, UCONN, and XU are all very, very, beatable.  I expect these guys to compete but am always concerned about turnovers, execution,  and poise down the stretch.  If we were to lose out, which is possible, it would be worse.  Especially if we are not competitive.  I dunno why but I think we will find a way to squeeze out another win or two.  Having slept on it I feel our opponents are so weak that we will find a way....probably twice.

Marquette:
2/14 Guarded Threes
1/11 Unguarded Threes

Seton Hall:
3/11 Guarded Threes
1/4 Unguarded Threes

Mugsy, you keep saying Marquette didn't play good defense and it was just Seton Hall missing shots. It's simply not true. The numbers above from Synergy tell the tale. Marquette only surrendered 4 unguarded threes all game. Meanwhile, Seton Hall gave up 11 unguarded threes, all but one of them to guys who shoot over 35% on the season. Story of the game yesterday was that Marquette played good defense but couldn't hit Lake Michigan from Bradford Beach.

It doesn't matter. Wojo has let the program backslide too much since last February, he still needs to go. But be honest about what happened yesterday.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: BCHoopster on February 15, 2021, 12:29:14 PM
A college education is really important to a fringe player, someday he might need a degree
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MuggsyB on February 15, 2021, 12:52:49 PM
Marquette:
2/14 Guarded Threes
1/11 Unguarded Threes

Seton Hall:
3/11 Guarded Threes
1/4 Unguarded Threes

Mugsy, you keep saying Marquette didn't play good defense and it was just Seton Hall missing shots. It's simply not true. The numbers above from Synergy tell the tale. Marquette only surrendered 4 unguarded threes all game. Meanwhile, Seton Hall gave up 11 unguarded threes, all but one of them to guys who shoot over 35% on the season. Story of the game yesterday was that Marquette played good defense but couldn't hit Lake Michigan from Bradford Beach.

It doesn't matter. Wojo has let the program backslide too much since last February, he still needs to go. But be honest about what happened yesterday.

I thought we rebounded well.  I also thought Mamu had an unusually poor game and SH did a poor job.attacking the rim.  We' may have statistically defended well but The Hall's sloppy turns and poor shot selection contributed to it.  I also think there is a wide range of actual contested shots.  Perhaps I am biased because I am extremely frustrated with our record but this is a flawed defensive and offensive team. 
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: onepost on February 15, 2021, 12:56:04 PM
I debated whether or not to even jump into this.  But at this point, whatever.
I am "the fan" who tweeted back and forth with Theo yesterday.  I've doxxed myself before on here so I'm sure someone can track down those posts if they want, and my guy WRK can vouch for it too.

"Who even cares anymore" is a pretty mild postgame comment, particularly when sent to the void of the @MarquetteMBB FINAL mentions.  Brew, Fluffy, others have hit on it, but when I commented, I didn't see Theo or DJ tagged in the initial post.  Had I realized that, I would have simply untagged them, or just thought better of even saying something snarky.

The irony is two weeks prior (1/31/21), some troll went out of his way tagging DJ in a postgame tweet about "how unnatural carnal knowledgeing stupid are you?" on a @MarquetteMBB thread and I told HIM to grow up.  Despite what some here probably think, I am incredibly anti-player bashing on twitter.  It's terrible.  Which is why I did my best to diffuse things with Theo and DJ's mom.  It's not being "cowardly" or "back-stepping", as some here have said, I responded what I did with them unknowingly tagged and wanted to reiterate when called out that my issue is not with the players and their effort.

On a thread of crap, littered with "we unnatural carnal knowledgeing suck", or "what a joke", and two dozen "#FIREWOJO", am I surprised Theo picked out MY relatively innocuous tweet to comment on?  Sure.  For the record, for those clutching their pearls on my behalf (aka Kyle Marks on twitter who really needs to stop), I have no problem with Theo responding to me like he did.  I shared my graduation from frustration to apathy and he told me to STFU.  Big deal.  Like I told him and others in the resulting crapstorm, I appreciate his passion and don't doubt those guys have it.  Do I think DJ's mom needs to stop SEEKING OUT tweets her son is mentioned (most often not even tagged in) in and telling people to unnatural carnal knowledge off after every game?  Absolutely.

I love MUBB and genuinely love the players in this program.  I don't regret for a second what I tweeted because I stand by it, fans are becoming apathetic in droves: and it'll only be made worse by retaining Wojo.  But I should have been more cognizant of who was tagged in my reply, and I'll 100% own that mistake.  Because these guys don't need personal @'s (mentions for those not on twitter) reminding them of how awful this season is.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 15, 2021, 12:59:08 PM
I debated whether or not to even jump into this.  But at this point, whatever.
I am "the fan" who tweeted back and forth with Theo yesterday.  I've doxxed myself before on here so I'm sure someone can track down those posts if they want, and my guy WRK can vouch for it too.

"Who even cares anymore" is a pretty mild postgame comment, particularly when sent to the void of the @MarquetteMBB FINAL mentions.  Brew, Fluffy, others have hit on it, but when I commented, I didn't see Theo or DJ tagged in the initial post.  Had I realized that, I would have simply untagged them, or just thought better of even saying something snarky.

The irony is two weeks prior (1/31/21), some troll went out of his way tagging DJ in a postgame tweet about "how unnatural carnal knowledgeing stupid are you?" on a @MarquetteMBB thread and I told HIM to grow up.  Despite what some here probably think, I am incredibly anti-player bashing on twitter.  It's terrible.  Which is why I did my best to diffuse things with Theo and DJ's mom.  It's not being "cowardly" or "back-stepping", as some here have said, I responded what I did with them unknowingly tagged and wanted to reiterate when called out that my issue is not with the players and their effort.

On a thread of crap, littered with "we unnatural carnal knowledgeing suck", or "what a joke", and two dozen "#FIREWOJO", am I surprised Theo picked out MY relatively innocuous tweet to comment on?  Sure.  For the record, for those clutching their pearls on my behalf (aka Kyle Marks on twitter who really needs to stop), I have no problem with Theo responding to me like he did.  I shared my graduation from frustration to apathy and he told me to STFU.  Big deal.  Like I told him and others in the resulting crapstorm, I appreciate his passion and don't doubt those guys have it.  Do I think DJ's mom needs to stop SEEKING OUT tweets her son is mentioned (most often not even tagged in) in and telling people to unnatural carnal knowledge off after every game?  Absolutely.

I love MUBB and genuinely love the players in this program.  I don't regret for a second what I tweeted because I stand by it, fans are becoming apathetic in droves: and it'll only be made worse by retaining Wojo.  But I should have been more cognizant of who was tagged in my reply, and I'll 100% own that mistake.  Because these guys don't need personal @'s (mentions for those not on twitter) reminding them of how awful this season is.


I thought you handled it well, and agree with you about both Theo and DJ's mom.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 15, 2021, 01:00:12 PM
Appreciate your candor OnePost.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: HutchwasClutch on February 15, 2021, 01:03:16 PM
I debated whether or not to even jump into this.  But at this point, whatever.
I am "the fan" who tweeted back and forth with Theo yesterday.  I've doxxed myself before on here so I'm sure someone can track down those posts if they want, and my guy WRK can vouch for it too.

"Who even cares anymore" is a pretty mild postgame comment, particularly when sent to the void of the @MarquetteMBB FINAL mentions.  Brew, Fluffy, others have hit on it, but when I commented, I didn't see Theo or DJ tagged in the initial post.  Had I realized that, I would have simply untagged them, or just thought better of even saying something snarky.

The irony is two weeks prior (1/31/21), some troll went out of his way tagging DJ in a postgame tweet about "how unnatural carnal knowledgeing stupid are you?" on a @MarquetteMBB thread and I told HIM to grow up.  Despite what some here probably think, I am incredibly anti-player bashing on twitter.  It's terrible.  Which is why I did my best to diffuse things with Theo and DJ's mom.  It's not being "cowardly" or "back-stepping", as some here have said, I responded what I did with them unknowingly tagged and wanted to reiterate when called out that my issue is not with the players and their effort.

On a thread of crap, littered with "we unnatural carnal knowledgeing suck", or "what a joke", and two dozen "#FIREWOJO", am I surprised Theo picked out MY relatively innocuous tweet to comment on?  Sure.  For the record, for those clutching their pearls on my behalf (aka Kyle Marks on twitter who really needs to stop), I have no problem with Theo responding to me like he did.  I shared my graduation from frustration to apathy and he told me to STFU.  Big deal.  Like I told him and others in the resulting crapstorm, I appreciate his passion and don't doubt those guys have it.  Do I think DJ's mom needs to stop SEEKING OUT tweets her son is mentioned (most often not even tagged in) in and telling people to unnatural carnal knowledge off after every game?  Absolutely.

I love MUBB and genuinely love the players in this program.  I don't regret for a second what I tweeted because I stand by it, fans are becoming apathetic in droves: and it'll only be made worse by retaining Wojo.  But I should have been more cognizant of who was tagged in my reply, and I'll 100% own that mistake.  Because these guys don't need personal @'s (mentions for those not on twitter) reminding them of how awful this season is.

Jennifer Carton seems to just be spoiling for a Twitter fight.  She looks ridiculous and very immature. 
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MU82 on February 15, 2021, 01:06:45 PM
A college education is really important to a fringe player, someday he might need a degree

And he can get one someday, if he wants to. Most non-redshirted college basketball and football players do not get degrees during their 4 years of eligibility.

I agree with you that DJ is not ready for the NBA and I also agree with what you cite as his shortcomings. However, Galway is right about there being places other than college where he can work on improving, and arguably those other places are better than college to do it.

And again, whether or not a player is "ready" often has little to do with his decision.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 15, 2021, 01:08:10 PM
A college education is really important to a fringe player, someday he might need a degree

And marquette offers lifetime scholarships so he can always come back and get it. He won't always be able to make a crap ton of money relative to his age playing a game he loves.

Again now days there's only two reasons if you're going to be a pro of some kind to stay in college. 1. Publicity 2. Because you have an emotional connection (school, desire for a final four, coach, GF, etc)
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MU82 on February 15, 2021, 01:15:34 PM
I thought we rebounded well.  I also thought Mamu had an unusually poor game and SH did a poor job.attacking the rim.  We' may have statistically defended well but The Hall's sloppy turns and poor shot selection contributed to it.  I also think there is a wide range of actual contested shots.  Perhaps I am biased because I am extremely frustrated with our record but this is a flawed defensive and offensive team.

I actually think Wojo and his assistants deserve a lot of credit for the defensive game plan against Mamu. We attacked him aggressively, often with a double-team, every time he picked up the ball on the wing. It led to most of his 6 turnovers, and it played a big role in keeping SH's offense from ever really getting untracked.

I also thought the improvement in rebounding from the previous game, despite us missing our second-leading rebounder, was notable.

See, I don't think it's mutually exclusive to praise some of the good things we do while also being critical overall of Wojo and his assistants. All of the above wasn't good enough yesterday, and that's partly to mostly on Wojo; and it continues a pattern, which is definitely on Wojo, the architect of this flawed team.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: BCHoopster on February 15, 2021, 01:16:43 PM
And marquette offers lifetime scholarships so he can always come back and get it. He won't always be able to make a crap ton of money relative to his age playing a game he loves.

Again now days there's only two reasons if you're going to be a pro of some kind to stay in college. 1. Publicity 2. Because you have an emotional connection (school, desire for a final four, coach, GF, etc)

Not sure he will make any money in the NBA next year or getting 30K in the G league is anything special.  If he wants to go overseas, he can do that.  Not sure what a fringe player will make over there.  Best is come back to MU and improve.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: hairy worthen on February 15, 2021, 01:18:09 PM
Marquette:
2/14 Guarded Threes
1/11 Unguarded Threes

Seton Hall:
3/11 Guarded Threes
1/4 Unguarded Threes

Mugsy, you keep saying Marquette didn't play good defense and it was just Seton Hall missing shots. It's simply not true. The numbers above from Synergy tell the tale. Marquette only surrendered 4 unguarded threes all game. Meanwhile, Seton Hall gave up 11 unguarded threes, all but one of them to guys who shoot over 35% on the season. Story of the game yesterday was that Marquette played good defense but couldn't hit Lake Michigan from Bradford Beach.

It doesn't matter. Wojo has let the program backslide too much since last February, he still needs to go. But be honest about what happened yesterday.
Watching the game I thought SH was playing like garbage and what an opportunity to steal a win. I never thought SH was playing like garbage because of Marquette's defense. It is difficult to quantify and probably a little of both. The numbers you cited really dont tell  much about how the game was played.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MU82 on February 15, 2021, 01:22:09 PM
Watching the game I thought SH was playing like garbage and what an opportunity to steal a win. I never thought SH was playing like garbage because of Marquette's defense. It is difficult to quantify and probably a little of both. The numbers you cited really dont tell  much about how the game was played.

So you don't think the game plan to aggressively double-team Mamu forced most if not all of his 6 turnovers, which derailed their offense much of the day? It's OK if you don't; reasonable people can disagree.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: BCHoopster on February 15, 2021, 01:23:13 PM
Watching the game I thought SH was playing like garbage and what an opportunity to steal a win. I never thought SH was playing like garbage because of Marquette's defense. It is difficult to quantify and probably a little of both. The numbers you cited really dont tell  much about how the game was played.

Bottom line if you are 3-25 from three, you are not going to beat anybody no matter how they play.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 15, 2021, 01:31:40 PM
Not sure he will make any money in the NBA next year or getting 30K in the G league is anything special.  If he wants to go overseas, he can do that.  Not sure what a fringe player will make over there.  Best is come back to MU and improve.

He's better than minimum salary in the GLeague for sure which is 35k. Let's say he's at 50 then that puts him above pretty much all non stem college grads right away. Not to mention you didn't point out why it's better for him to develop over a summer of short non full team coaching sessions and a couple of weeks before the season of full team. Vs being able to do full time coaching and training all offseason.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: hairy worthen on February 15, 2021, 01:40:12 PM
So you don't think the game plan to aggressively double-team Mamu forced most if not all of his 6 turnovers, which derailed their offense much of the day? It's OK if you don't; reasonable people can disagree.
I'm not sure, it's not that clear cut. Maybe. You dont think Mamu gets pressured in other games?  I can think of 2 plays for sure where he forced a shot. I think combination of good defense and poor play from SH. BChoopster said it Marquette shooting 3 for 25 from three is the reason they lost.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: BCHoopster on February 15, 2021, 01:43:40 PM
He's better than minimum salary in the GLeague for sure which is 35k. Let's say he's at 50 then that puts him above pretty much all non stem college grads right away. Not to mention you didn't point out why it's better for him to develop over a summer of short non full team coaching sessions and a couple of weeks before the season of full team. Vs being able to do full time coaching and training all offseason.

I just see a better benefit in staying in school, improve and become a first round pick worth $5M or so.  The G league is not a bigger stage then college ball.  Take your
team to the tournament, will get you more press than a G league player.  Go watch a G league game to see how bad it is.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 15, 2021, 01:43:46 PM
Marquette:
2/14 Guarded Threes
1/11 Unguarded Threes

Seton Hall:
3/11 Guarded Threes
1/4 Unguarded Threes

Mugsy, you keep saying Marquette didn't play good defense and it was just Seton Hall missing shots. It's simply not true. The numbers above from Synergy tell the tale. Marquette only surrendered 4 unguarded threes all game. Meanwhile, Seton Hall gave up 11 unguarded threes, all but one of them to guys who shoot over 35% on the season. Story of the game yesterday was that Marquette played good defense but couldn't hit Lake Michigan from Bradford Beach.

It doesn't matter. Wojo has let the program backslide too much since last February, he still needs to go. But be honest about what happened yesterday.


This is it.  Exactly.  Marquette's defense was very good.  Marquette's offense also got its players open shots.  Hard to blame that on coaching.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Johnny B on February 15, 2021, 02:19:48 PM
There is not a college athletics program, or a basketball program, social media account in the country that avoids publishing or updating team news/results/highlights out of fear of negative responses from fans or alumni.  Zero.  Requesting our MUBB social media to not "tag" players in postgame results declare that our program (our coaches, our players, our families) simply cannot be mature enough to handle such an audience or vehicle for communication.  Should the school eject fans that boo at home games too?  (The obvious answer is no as well). 

There is zero consequence to a fan on social media to criticizing a player or coach on social media.  None.  However, players can be suspended, disciplined and/or kicked off team for what they post and what they say to these fans on social media.  It is what it is.  Marquette cannot change that, the athletic department cannot change that and our basketball program cannot change that. 

Our players (and parents) need to be better.  Period.  None of them will change those opinions of fans.  They need to handle it better.
virginia didnt make an  update on facebook after umbc
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on February 15, 2021, 02:28:00 PM
virginia didnt make an  update on facebook after umbc

https://twitter.com/UVAMensHoops/status/974851502828376064?s=20 (https://twitter.com/UVAMensHoops/status/974851502828376064?s=20)

UVA Men's Basketball still did a postgame Tweet about the loss and they did not block or ban any of their fan's negative reactions to it.  From re-reading that post and the replies, I do not see any player or parent respond negatively to a fan or alum that voiced their frustrations.   
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Herman Cain on February 15, 2021, 02:56:58 PM
And marquette offers lifetime scholarships so he can always come back and get it. He won't always be able to make a crap ton of money relative to his age playing a game he loves.

Again now days there's only two reasons if you're going to be a pro of some kind to stay in college. 1. Publicity 2. Because you have an emotional connection (school, desire for a final four, coach, GF, etc)
If a player is fundamentally sound at all skills ,and has the requisite athleticism , a case can be made that this type of  player can then hone one or more or his skills to the elite level ( which is what is required to play in the NBA) better in a professional setting.

However , if a player has some significant holes in their fundamentals it is much better to address those deficiencies at the college level. The reps in collegiate game settings are helpful to that self improvement process .
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: BrewCity83 on February 15, 2021, 03:47:26 PM
https://twitter.com/UVAMensHoops/status/974851502828376064?s=20 (https://twitter.com/UVAMensHoops/status/974851502828376064?s=20)

UVA Men's Basketball still did a postgame Tweet about the loss and they did not block or ban any of their fan's negative reactions to it.  From re-reading that post and the replies, I do not see any player or parent respond negatively to a fan or alum that voiced their frustrations.   

Apples to oranges.  Virginia is a top-20 team, defending national champion, ACC conference leading team that does not have weeks and years of pent-up frustrations.  One bad loss, so what?  Shake it off and win the next one.

That's not where we are.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: cheebs09 on February 15, 2021, 03:49:44 PM
Apples to oranges.  Virginia is a top-20 team, defending national champion, ACC conference leading team that does not have weeks and years of pent-up frustrations.  One bad loss, so what?  Shake it off and win the next one.

That's not where we are.

That was the loss when they lost to a 16 seed.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: BrewCity83 on February 15, 2021, 03:58:52 PM
That was the loss when they lost to a 16 seed.

I'm not saying it's not a bad loss, but it's not close to where we are.  Hard to compare the where fan bases mindsets are in these two situations. 

As a Marquette fan, I would trade where we are now for where UVA was then:  a #1 seed that lost to a #16, then they have a top seeded team with a great coach coming back next year and then go on to win a Natty.  And you all would make that trade too.  I just don't think you can compare fan reactions in those two situations.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Billy Hoyle on February 15, 2021, 04:04:36 PM
"Human up?"

Good grief.

Maybe it was like the Congressman who ended a prayer “awoman.”


This is it.  Exactly.  Marquette's defense was very good.  Marquette's offense also got its players open shots.  Hard to blame that on coaching.

At some point you tell DJ to stop passing out to the perimeter after penetrating to the rim. Or maybe that was the game plan?
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 15, 2021, 04:05:36 PM
At some point you tell DJ to stop passing out to the perimeter after penetrating to the rim. Or maybe that was the game plan?


He broke down the defense and got them wide open shots.  Taking it to the hole when you have their long, rim protectors was probably not the best strategy. 

Maybe Seton Hall felt that collapsing on the driver and take their chances letting Jamal and Dawson bomb from deep was the best way to go.  And it worked.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on February 16, 2021, 07:36:18 AM
I'm not saying it's not a bad loss, but it's not close to where we are.  Hard to compare the where fan bases mindsets are in these two situations. 

As a Marquette fan, I would trade where we are now for where UVA was then:  a #1 seed that lost to a #16, then they have a top seeded team with a great coach coming back next year and then go on to win a Natty.  And you all would make that trade too.  I just don't think you can compare fan reactions in those two situations.

I brought up the UVA loss because a poster said they didn't post about it on Facebook. They still did the normal post-game tweet on Twitter. They did not block fans, players did not go after fans and parents did not go after fans.

Again, no program censors itself out of fear of what the community response will be, so the notion that the MUBB social media accounts need not post after losses is a laughably bad take.

(And this is not to you, Brew. This is to those that think the contrary).
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MuggsyB on February 16, 2021, 07:39:52 AM
I brought up the UVA loss because a poster said they didn't post about it on Facebook. They still did the normal post-game tweet on Twitter. They did not block fans, players did not go after fans and parents did not go after fans.

Again, no program censors itself out of fear of what the community response will be, so the notion that the MUBB social media accounts need not post after losses is a laughably bad take.

(And this is not to you, Brew. This is to those that think the contrary).

Agreed G-Warrior.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 16, 2021, 07:47:47 AM
I brought up the UVA loss because a poster said they didn't post about it on Facebook. They still did the normal post-game tweet on Twitter. They did not block fans, players did not go after fans and parents did not go after fans.

Again, no program censors itself out of fear of what the community response will be, so the notion that the MUBB social media accounts need not post after losses is a laughably bad take.

(And this is not to you, Brew. This is to those that think the contrary).


I don't think anyone suggested they shouldn't post after losses.  I believe it was said that they shouldn't tag players in such posts.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on February 16, 2021, 09:37:45 AM

I don't think anyone suggested they shouldn't post after losses.  I believe it was said that they shouldn't tag players in such posts.

MUBB should absolutely stop posting on social media.    At this point, there is zero upside, tons of down.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 16, 2021, 09:40:24 AM
Oh never mind then. 
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 16, 2021, 03:59:51 PM
Yep, I did.   Just let the pitch sail by. 

There's no law that says you need to do social media even when it hurts your brand.  Oh noes, some twitter trolls will call you out for not posting bad news?  Heavens to Betsy.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: skianth16 on February 17, 2021, 09:00:32 AM
He's better than minimum salary in the GLeague for sure which is 35k. Let's say he's at 50 then that puts him above pretty much all non stem college grads right away. Not to mention you didn't point out why it's better for him to develop over a summer of short non full team coaching sessions and a couple of weeks before the season of full team. Vs being able to do full time coaching and training all offseason.

DJ could probably leave Marquette and get paid to play basketball somewhere next year. I think a lot of people would agree with that. Whether that's the best thing for him as a player and as a person is always hard to determine. But for a kid like DJ who's gone through a lot of changes and challenges in the last 18 months, it's worth thinking about the personal impact of leaving. Especially leaving for a situation where basketball is a business.

I would bet that a lot of college coaches note how different the professional life is vs. the student life. Being a D1 basketball player has a lot of nice perks. A guy like DJ is well known on campus and in Milwaukee, he's spending time in some of the very best facilities, he's getting a lot of attention from a coaching staff that wants him to succeed (because they can't cut him like a pro team can), etc. There are lot of positives to sticking with the amateur route for a guy looking to make a jump to the next level at some point. Does a 50K salary offset all that? For some, yes, for some, definitely not.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 17, 2021, 01:42:54 PM
DJ could probably leave Marquette and get paid to play basketball somewhere next year. I think a lot of people would agree with that. Whether that's the best thing for him as a player and as a person is always hard to determine. But for a kid like DJ who's gone through a lot of changes and challenges in the last 18 months, it's worth thinking about the personal impact of leaving. Especially leaving for a situation where basketball is a business.

I would bet that a lot of college coaches note how different the professional life is vs. the student life. Being a D1 basketball player has a lot of nice perks. A guy like DJ is well known on campus and in Milwaukee, he's spending time in some of the very best facilities, he's getting a lot of attention from a coaching staff that wants him to succeed (because they can't cut him like a pro team can), etc. There are lot of positives to sticking with the amateur route for a guy looking to make a jump to the next level at some point. Does a 50K salary offset all that? For some, yes, for some, definitely not.

He might be well known on campus but he's been here for a season and we suck during said season. I doubt it's similar to people buying drinks for the guys at Apartment 720 or buying hotdogs for Gardner at Dog House.

But your take about emotional readiness is a valid one I didn't consider and makes way more sense than BCHoopsters old school take that ignores the reality.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: cheebs09 on February 24, 2021, 12:14:40 PM
Wasn’t sure where the thread with the conversation about players responding on Twitter was, but it does not appear MU learned it’s lesson.

They tagged Kam Jones in what was an awesome high school highlight. I believe a person who has previously gotten into Twitter battles and is no fan of Wojo commented about firing Wojo, and then Kam Jones responded.

I get that we want to make sure recruits see that the official account is tweeting about them, but read the room. MU shouldn’t be tagging players or recruits at this point as the comment sections are a breeding ground for dumb responses.

https://twitter.com/marquettembb/status/1364568511989833738?s=21
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: jficke13 on February 24, 2021, 12:30:35 PM
That twitter exchange rates a 1 on the dumb-tweet-o-meter.

Dummy trolls MU, because that's what trolls do. Kam claps back with an incredibly restrained response. Troll trolls again. End of exchange.

If a perfect response to a troll is to ignore, then Kam's response wasn't perfect, but I can't say it was *bad*.

There's just not much to see here. <shrug>
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: BM1090 on February 24, 2021, 12:35:33 PM
It's a shame that Wojo isn't better because his guys truly seem to love him.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 24, 2021, 12:46:03 PM
It's a shame that Wojo isn't better because his guys truly seem to love him.

I think Wojo would be a perfect coach for Marquette...if he only won more.  He checks all the boxes, except the largest and most important one.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 24, 2021, 01:02:47 PM
Wasn’t sure where the thread with the conversation about players responding on Twitter was, but it does not appear MU learned it’s lesson.

They tagged Kam Jones in what was an awesome high school highlight. I believe a person who has previously gotten into Twitter battles and is no fan of Wojo commented about firing Wojo, and then Kam Jones responded.

I get that we want to make sure recruits see that the official account is tweeting about them, but read the room. MU shouldn’t be tagging players or recruits at this point as the comment sections are a breeding ground for dumb responses.

https://twitter.com/marquettembb/status/1364568511989833738?s=21

That highlight was nice though
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: panda on February 24, 2021, 01:20:31 PM
I really do wonder what he’s telling these kids at this point in his tenure.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MU82 on February 24, 2021, 01:22:42 PM
I really do wonder what he’s telling these kids at this point in his tenure.

What do you mean?
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: panda on February 24, 2021, 01:25:34 PM
What do you mean?

I really do wonder what he’s telling these kids at this point in his tenure *EDIT which makes the guys so faithful to him.

Wojo is a genuine person, but at some point, opposing coaches/staffs on the recruiting trail can very rightly point out his lack of on court success to recruits.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 24, 2021, 01:37:01 PM
I really do wonder what he’s telling these kids at this point in his tenure *EDIT which makes the guys so faithful to him.

Wojo is a genuine person, but at some point, opposing coaches/staffs on the recruiting trail can very rightly point out his lack of on court success to recruits.


He's a fringe top 100 prospect.  We aren't talking about an elite prospect here.

And for all the talk of lack of on court success, they would have been in the tournament three years out of four.  (Not saying that is great, but it certainly is sellable.)
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: dgies9156 on February 24, 2021, 01:37:23 PM
I think Wojo would be a perfect coach for Marquette...if he only won more.  He checks all the boxes, except the largest and most important one.

Huh?

That's like saying Adolf Hitler was a perfect match for Germany, except for that little issue with Jewish folks and his tendency to make war.

Or, that the Imperial Wizard is a really great guy, except for his attitude about African-American folks.

I'll go one step further. We don't want to admit it, but MU is kind of a gritty urban campus. We're not an elegant, Ivy League campus or school where our students go on to run the country. That's why I think the perfect match for Marquette was Al McGuire -- and why most of us loved him so much. Buzz Williams fit the same mold. McGuire was gritty, his teams were hard-working, successful and feisty. So was Williams at MU.

Wojo is the button-down Ivy Leaguer we like to think we are. I'm sure he's a wonderful guy whose players love him but, as you say Brother Fluff, nothing matters if we don't win!

 
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: panda on February 24, 2021, 01:44:25 PM

He's a fringe top 100 prospect.  We aren't talking about an elite prospect here.

And for all the talk of lack of on court success, they would have been in the tournament three years out of four.  (Not saying that is great, but it certainly is sellable.)

Offers from Florida and Wake. Seems pretty lightly recruited overall though. I agree with your point in this instance, but I will find it interesting to see what type of players we get moving forward. 
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: cheebs09 on February 24, 2021, 01:47:52 PM
That twitter exchange rates a 1 on the dumb-tweet-o-meter.

Dummy trolls MU, because that's what trolls do. Kam claps back with an incredibly restrained response. Troll trolls again. End of exchange.

If a perfect response to a troll is to ignore, then Kam's response wasn't perfect, but I can't say it was *bad*.

There's just not much to see here. <shrug>

Oh yea. It was pretty tame. Just to me, it doesn’t make sense for the official account to put players/recruits in that position because the average Twitter user doesn’t think to untag people in replies.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 24, 2021, 01:48:06 PM
Huh?

That's like saying Adolf Hitler was a perfect match for Germany, except for that little issue with Jewish folks and his tendency to make war.

Or, that the Imperial Wizard is a really great guy, except for his attitude about African-American folks.

I'll go one step further. We don't want to admit it, but MU is kind of a gritty urban campus. We're not an elegant, Ivy League campus or school where our students go on to run the country. That's why I think the perfect match for Marquette was Al McGuire -- and why most of us loved him so much. Buzz Williams fit the same mold. McGuire was gritty, his teams were hard-working, successful and feisty. So was Williams at MU.

Wojo is the button-down Ivy Leaguer we like to think we are. I'm sure he's a wonderful guy whose players love him but, as you say Brother Fluff, nothing matters if we don't win!




Marquette's not really a "gritty urban campus" and Wojo is not an Ivy Leaguer. 

He is a clean recruiter, most players like him, they graduate and out of trouble and he seems to love the place. 

But he obviously needs to win more.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: jficke13 on February 24, 2021, 01:57:57 PM
Oh yea. It was pretty tame. Just to me, it doesn’t make sense for the official account to put players/recruits in that position because the average Twitter user doesn’t think to untag people in replies.

Seems fair. Not being a close social media watcher, do other schools' SIDs tag recruits/players?
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: dgies9156 on February 24, 2021, 02:12:31 PM

Marquette's not really a "gritty urban campus" and Wojo is not an Ivy Leaguer. 

I know we are trying really hard to change our image and the campus is much nicer than when I attended MU. The old tanning and brewing smells that made Marquette so, shall we say, odiferous, aren't there any more. And, of course, the industrial valley lacks the industry and the railroad, except for a couple of through tracks.

But c'mon. We're on the edge of one of Milwaukee's tougher neighborhoods. Try as we might, the city's main street was never closed and runs through the middle of Marquette's campus. Our eastern edge is Wisconsin's busiest freeway interchange and our southern edge is Interstate 94. I really love the place and being able to go to school in a major urban center. I wouldn't trade it for all the ivy out east, but this campus is still gritty, especially in winter.

Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 24, 2021, 02:17:06 PM
Marquette is definitely "urban."  It's not very "gritty." 
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: DFW HOYA on February 24, 2021, 03:11:01 PM
Marquette is definitely "urban."  It's not very "gritty."

It's not gritty in the way St. Louis U or Temple is, but if there's an interstate running alongside a campus, there's a certain amount of grit to it. In face, if any multi-lane road runs through a campus, that's urban.

Creighton and Marquette are certainly the most urban. St. John's and Seton Hall (and to a lesser extent, Providence, Xavier and DePaul) are thought of as urban when, in fact, they are more neighborhood-placed.  The other four are somewhat different:

Connecticut: Rural
Villanova: Suburban
Butler: Nice neighborhood, in-city
Georgetown: Expensive neighborhood in-city, self contained.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 24, 2021, 03:16:05 PM
I have difficulty believing that any school which the vast majority is white suburban individuals is "gritty" maybe people take up that banner because of the neighborhood while there but that's a whole lot different than a actually gritty area.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MU82 on February 24, 2021, 04:30:11 PM
I really do wonder what he’s telling these kids at this point in his tenure *EDIT which makes the guys so faithful to him.

Wojo is a genuine person, but at some point, opposing coaches/staffs on the recruiting trail can very rightly point out his lack of on court success to recruits.

I don't wonder at all.

He tells them about Marquette's basketball history. He sells them on playing time - including significant time for freshmen if they're good enough. He shows them highlights from all the good games under his watch - storming the court after Nova, Sam's 3 vs Creighton, Markus going wild, the packed arena for our 20-2 run in 2018-19, etc. He sells them on getting to play in one of the best arenas in the NBA, home of the Greek Freak. He introduces them to the current players, who go on and on about our family atmosphere.

Some feel Wojo really hasn't been all that good a recruiter. That's a debate for another stream. Fact is, he has signed lots of good recruits, including 2 burger boys, a future first-team All-American, the Hausers, etc. He had plenty of good things to tell them about Marquette, and he apparently has some pretty good selling points for kids in this year's recruiting class, too.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: panda on February 24, 2021, 04:45:12 PM
I don't wonder at all.

He tells them about Marquette's basketball history. He sells them on playing time - including significant time for freshmen if they're good enough. He shows them highlights from all the good games under his watch - storming the court after Nova, Sam's 3 vs Creighton, Markus going wild, the packed arena for our 20-2 run in 2018-19, etc. He sells them on getting to play in one of the best arenas in the NBA, home of the Greek Freak. He introduces them to the current players, who go on and on about our family atmosphere.

Some feel Wojo really hasn't been all that good a recruiter. That's a debate for another stream. Fact is, he has signed lots of good recruits, including 2 burger boys, a future first-team All-American, the Hausers, etc. He had plenty of good things to tell them about Marquette, and he apparently has some pretty good selling points for kids in this year's recruiting class, too.

As the kids used to say…No duh

My point is, at this point, there are a lot of holes to be poked in those arguments by opposing coaches on the recruiting trail. I’m wondering if/when our recruiting will potentially fall off due to constant underachievement.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: dgies9156 on February 25, 2021, 08:07:31 AM
I don't wonder at all.

He tells them about Marquette's basketball history. He sells them on playing time - including significant time for freshmen if they're good enough. He shows them highlights from all the good games under his watch - storming the court after Nova, Sam's 3 vs Creighton, Markus going wild, the packed arena for our 20-2 run in 2018-19, etc. He sells them on getting to play in one of the best arenas in the NBA, home of the Greek Freak. He introduces them to the current players, who go on and on about our family atmosphere.

Some feel Wojo really hasn't been all that good a recruiter. That's a debate for another stream. Fact is, he has signed lots of good recruits, including 2 burger boys, a future first-team All-American, the Hausers, etc. He had plenty of good things to tell them about Marquette, and he apparently has some pretty good selling points for kids in this year's recruiting class, too.

Very true.

The challenge he has is that if we don't turn it around soon, the apathy will kill the enthusiasm we once had for Marquette basketball. Especially if the Bucks remain high caliber and the Packers remain competitive for the Super Bowl.

If you don't believe me, look at DePaul. In the 1980s, they were the hottest ticket in Chicago. Now, there's little difference between Covid-19 and non-Covid-19 crowds at the Winnie. When we played them last year, I think DePaul thought they were playing in MIlwaukee!
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Viper on February 25, 2021, 08:09:10 PM
It's not gritty in the way St. Louis U or Temple is, but if there's an interstate running alongside a campus, there's a certain amount of grit to it. In face, if any multi-lane road runs through a campus, that's urban.

Creighton and Marquette are certainly the most urban. St. John's and Seton Hall (and to a lesser extent, Providence, Xavier and DePaul) are thought of as urban when, in fact, they are more neighborhood-placed.  The other four are somewhat different:

Connecticut: Rural
Villanova: Suburban
Butler: Nice neighborhood, in-city
Georgetown: Expensive neighborhood in-city, self contained.
creighton is in cowtown. Urban?
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Scoop Snoop on February 25, 2021, 08:47:10 PM
As the kids used to say…No duh

My point is, at this point, there are a lot of holes to be poked in those arguments by opposing coaches on the recruiting trail. I’m wondering if/when our recruiting will potentially fall off due to constant underachievement.

This has been my concern since the first 1-6 collapse followed by identical 1-6 collapses last year and this year. At some point (probably very soon) the poor performances are going to easily outweigh any storyline that Wojo can tell. We are currently in 10th place. Good luck selling Wojo's story.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: shoothoops on February 25, 2021, 08:58:30 PM
It's not gritty in the way St. Louis U or Temple is, but if there's an interstate running alongside a campus, there's a certain amount of grit to it. In face, if any multi-lane road runs through a campus, that's urban.

Creighton and Marquette are certainly the most urban. St. John's and Seton Hall (and to a lesser extent, Providence, Xavier and DePaul) are thought of as urban when, in fact, they are more neighborhood-placed.  The other four are somewhat different:

Connecticut: Rural
Villanova: Suburban
Butler: Nice neighborhood, in-city
Georgetown: Expensive neighborhood in-city, self contained.

When is the last time you visited some of these places?
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MU82 on February 25, 2021, 10:21:34 PM
This has been my concern since the first 1-6 collapse followed by identical 1-6 collapses last year and this year. At some point (probably very soon) the poor performances are going to easily outweigh any storyline that Wojo can tell. We are currently in 10th place. Good luck selling Wojo's story.

As the kids used to say…No duh

My point is, at this point, there are a lot of holes to be poked in those arguments by opposing coaches on the recruiting trail. I’m wondering if/when our recruiting will potentially fall off due to constant underachievement.

I had serious concerns after Hausershima ... and then Wojo went out and got Garcia, Lewis, DJ and Oso. And he has followed that up with a solid class this year.

Kids want playing time, they want to play in the NCAA tournament, the stars want a path to the NBA, and they all want to feel like part of a "family." Wojo has shown he will give minutes to any good player, whether or not that player's a freshman; we made the NCAAs in 3 of 4 seasons before this one; he has produced a few NBA players; and Marquette's players sure seem to project the latter all the time (with the exception of the end of the Mutiny Season).

It was asked what he had to sell. I said what he had to sell, and he's sold it pretty well.

Every coach, including Wojo, pokes holes in other coaches' selling points. I'll concern myself with all the worrywart stuff if and when it shows signs of happening.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: panda on February 26, 2021, 06:26:13 AM
I had serious concerns after Hausershima ... and then Wojo went out and got Garcia, Lewis, DJ and Oso. And he has followed that up with a solid class this year.

Kids want playing time, they want to play in the NCAA tournament, the stars want a path to the NBA, and they all want to feel like part of a "family." Wojo has shown he will give minutes to any good player, whether or not that player's a freshman; we made the NCAAs in 3 of 4 seasons before this one; he has produced a few NBA players; and Marquette's players sure seem to project the latter all the time (with the exception of the end of the Mutiny Season).

It was asked what he had to sell. I said what he had to sell, and he's sold it pretty well.

Every coach, including Wojo, pokes holes in other coaches' selling points. I'll concern myself with all the worrywart stuff if and when it shows signs of happening.

Once again, my point is his holes are becoming pretty big. If he stays, it will be interesting to see what level of talent he brings in.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: hairy worthen on February 26, 2021, 06:48:04 AM

He's a fringe top 100 prospect.  We aren't talking about an elite prospect here.

And for all the talk of lack of on court success, they would have been in the tournament three years out of four.  (Not saying that is great, but it certainly is sellable.)

68 teams make the tournament. It’s not that big of an accomplishment and actually a pretty low bar to get excited about. Now actually winning a game or two in the tournament? That would be sellable.

As far as “gritty”, what the hell does that even mean? Marquette is largely a University for privileged and entitled kids of wealthy parents. Let’s be honest. Don’t confuse the basketball program with the reality of the University. Al recruited inner city kids in part because they could relate to the city environment and would feel comfortable.  He could get those types of kids to come to Marquette, its an urban University not necessarily a "gritty" one.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Shooter McGavin on February 26, 2021, 06:57:47 AM
I think Wojo would be a perfect coach for Marquette...if he only won more.  He checks all the boxes, except the largest and most important one.

Yep.  Damn shame.  Here’s hoping for a miracle run this year and never looking back.  Is that too much to ask for?
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MU82 on February 26, 2021, 09:27:43 PM
Once again, my point is his holes are becoming pretty big. If he stays, it will be interesting to see what level of talent he brings in.

I would imagine the same level of talent.

You seem to believe differently.

That's cool. Reasonable people can disagree.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: muwarrior69 on February 27, 2021, 07:53:22 AM
68 teams make the tournament. It’s not that big of an accomplishment and actually a pretty low bar to get excited about. Now actually winning a game or two in the tournament? That would be sellable.

As far as “gritty”, what the hell does that even mean? Marquette is largely a University for privileged and entitled kids of wealthy parents. Let’s be honest. Don’t confuse the basketball program with the reality of the University. Al recruited inner city kids in part because they could relate to the city environment and would feel comfortable.  He could get those types of kids to come to Marquette, its an urban University not necessarily a "gritty" one.

Perhaps true today, but not when I attended. It was pretty much a school where blue collar parents could afford to send their kids and become the first college graduates in their family.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: naginiF on February 27, 2021, 08:47:44 AM
Perhaps true today, but not when I attended. It was pretty much a school where blue collar parents could afford to send their kids and become the first college graduates in their family.
It certainly was for privileged and entitled kids in the late 80's when I was there. I don't think we saw ourselves as such at the time but it was clear we were.

So it's been at least 35 years since the student body was 'gritty' which means its irrelevant in the framing of the institution today.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: #UnleashSean on February 27, 2021, 09:11:49 AM
Perhaps true today, but not when I attended. It was pretty much a school where blue collar parents could afford to send their kids and become the first college graduates in their family.

In 1969 anyone could afford to go to college working part time at the gas station in the summer.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: willie warrior on February 27, 2021, 09:16:20 AM
In 1969 anyone could afford to go to college working part time at the gas station in the summer.
That was back when people could afford to buy gas, at 29cents per gallon.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: tower912 on February 27, 2021, 10:02:48 AM
Trying to figure out how to frame a Jeffrey Dahmer joke with a 'gritty' student body. 
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Scoop Snoop on February 27, 2021, 10:21:05 AM
Trying to figure out how to frame a Jeffrey Dahmer joke with a 'gritty' student body.

Try "meat eaters" references from Scoop. You are on your own for the gritty part of the joke though.

Spooky, but he lived on 15th Street so I walked by his apartment building many times my senior year.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: tower912 on February 27, 2021, 10:28:58 AM
Meat eaters is a nice touch.   On Google maps, I was showing coworkers how close I lived to him, how close the laundromat I used was to his place, explained how many Wells street bars were close to his place.   They are young enough that his is a name from history.   They were shocked.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 27, 2021, 10:36:40 AM
That was back when people could afford to buy gas, at 29cents per gallon.
..which is equivalent to $2.13 today. so gas prices haven't changed much.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on February 27, 2021, 11:05:25 AM
T we're paying almost double that in "Worker's Paradise" California
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Uncle Rico on February 27, 2021, 11:30:29 AM
That was back when people could afford to buy gas, at 29cents per gallon.

I can afford gas
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: jesmu84 on February 27, 2021, 11:33:50 AM
That was back when people could afford to buy gas, at 29cents per gallon.

Sure. But gas prices have held steady over time.

College costs have skyrocketed.

Wages have severely lagged.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: #UnleashSean on February 27, 2021, 11:45:15 AM
Books are more expensive then room and board plus tuition was in 1969.

I bought one semesters worth of books. Then pirated pdf's and printed them off in the library. Way cheaper.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: mileskishnish72 on February 27, 2021, 01:38:14 PM
Quote from: Scoop Snoop link=topic=61447.msg1314460#msg1314460 date=1614442865

Spooky, but he lived on 15th Street
[/quote
I thought he lived out around 26th & State.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 27, 2021, 01:45:34 PM
25th between Kilbourn and State, hey?
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 27, 2021, 02:43:42 PM
..which is equivalent to $2.13 today. so gas prices haven't changed much.

Also considering average of 13 MPG in 1969, and 25 MPG today, if you go with inflation adjusted $/mile
1969: $2.13 / 13 = $0.16 (0.163)
2021: $2.71 / 25  = $0.11 (0.1084)

Gas prices seem like an old man rant.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: burger on February 27, 2021, 04:29:47 PM
25th between Kilbourn and State, hey?

He lived on 23rd between Wells and Wisconin in a white brick 3 story apartment complex with about 48ish units.....He lived on the 3rd floor......On the other side of the floor from a pair of friends of mine.....(they tore it down)(it was a pit)

Scarey $hit.....How close.....

One of his victims he picked up at the Bus Stop in front of McCormick.....Some HS run away kid.....
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: tower912 on February 27, 2021, 04:32:04 PM
924 N.25th.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 27, 2021, 04:41:03 PM
Scary again, Fahrenheit. Ewe and Eye agree. Dat's beyond wild, aina?
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: tower912 on February 27, 2021, 04:44:46 PM
Proud of you.   Still hope.   
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 27, 2021, 04:48:49 PM
Yeah, keep hope alive, hey?
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Scoop Snoop on February 27, 2021, 05:02:25 PM
Quote from: Scoop Snoop link=topic=61447.msg1314460#msg1314460 date=1614442865

Spooky, but he lived on 15th Street

I thought he lived out around 26th & State.
[/quote

He lived in several places over the years.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: PointWarrior on February 27, 2021, 07:15:24 PM
Nice that our program was described as a bad loss if UConn were to have lost by Brando. 
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: muhoops1 on February 27, 2021, 07:20:01 PM
Nice that our program was described as a bad loss if UConn were to have lost by Brando.
Didn’t the announcer say the same thing about MU during the broadcast on Wed?  This is depressing.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: 79Warrior on February 27, 2021, 08:27:51 PM
Didn’t the announcer say the same thing about MU during the broadcast on Wed?  This is depressing.

Yep. Program is in the worst shape since we have been in the BE.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Johnny B on February 27, 2021, 08:30:33 PM
as bad as this crap show season has been, it doesnt feel 2nd last only ahead of depaul bad
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MarquetteMike1977 on February 27, 2021, 08:53:48 PM
Yep. Program is in the worst shape since we have been in the BE.


 I wash my hands of this as I wanted to take ESPN’s crappy deal 8 to 10 Years ago and remain in control of the conference. Was told  from people inside the AL when we joined the Old Big East our program was friends with a couple other programs and we had some control over the “Old” Big East, one of them them being UConn and the others I was told but will not name. I thought we were partially back when it was announced UConn was going to be rejoining and we started getting better whistles then when we first joined the “New” Big East and Buzz made no tournament and Wojo went 4-14 BE in his first year. The Program is in better shape then back then but agree we are not nearly as back as I thought unfortunately. Especially for a program with Top 10 National attendance. 2nd Last Place. Ugh. Disappointing and Frustrating. Does anyone have Beilein’s phone number. Am for MU Winning.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Viper on February 28, 2021, 01:59:42 PM


 I wash my hands of this as I wanted to take ESPN’s crappy deal 8 to 10 Years ago and remain in control of the conference. Was told  from people inside the AL when we joined the Old Big East our program was friends with a couple other programs and we had some control over the “Old” Big East, one of them them being UConn and the others I was told but will not name. I thought we were partially back when it was announced UConn was going to be rejoining and we started getting better whistles then when we first joined the “New” Big East and Buzz made no tournament and Wojo went 4-14 BE in his first year. The Program is in better shape then back then but agree we are not nearly as back as I thought unfortunately. Especially for a program with Top 10 National attendance. 2nd Last Place. Ugh. Disappointing and Frustrating. Does anyone have Beilein’s phone number. Am for MU Winning.
you reference control. Where was MU to go when football blew up basketball? Hitching our wagon to a bunch of A-10 schools was not the answer. Sticking with Nova, StJ, Prov et al was the smart play. ESPN contract? Please elaborate. MU sucks because of MU. No one to blame. It comes down to coaching and players. MU’s problem? Michael Lovell and possibly the current AD, poor coaching and short a player or two on talent and athleticism. MU’s failings have nothing to do with TV contracts or BE competitors. It’s all on MU. Self accountability.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 01, 2021, 08:31:16 AM
He lived on 23rd between Wells and Wisconin in a white brick 3 story apartment complex with about 48ish units.....He lived on the 3rd floor......On the other side of the floor from a pair of friends of mine.....(they tore it down)(it was a pit)

Scarey $hit.....How close.....

One of his victims he picked up at the Bus Stop in front of McCormick.....Some HS run away kid.....

August 1989 to graduation in 1991 I lived on 15 1/2th (Alleyway) & Kilbourn.  After graduation one of the roommates said Dahmer supposedly walked by our apartment everyday on his way to work at the Ambrosia chocolate factory.  That was very freaky learning after the fact.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MU82 on March 01, 2021, 09:02:53 AM
August 1989 to graduation in 1991 I lived on 15 1/2th (Alleyway) & Kilbourn.  After graduation one of the roommates said Dahmer supposedly walked by our apartment everyday on his way to work at the Ambrosia chocolate factory.  That was very freaky learning after the fact.

Dahmer used to bring home chocolate for himself. He liked it for dessert.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: StillAWarrior on March 01, 2021, 12:42:45 PM
The challenge he has is that if we don't turn it around soon, the apathy will kill the enthusiasm we once had for Marquette basketball.


When I checked Scoop this morning, one of my first thoughts:  "Marquette had a game on Saturday?!"

I don't recall the last time that happened. I'll openly admit that it's on me for not knowing the schedule, but...like I said...it's been a long time since I didn't know Marquette's schedule. Not sure exactly what to make of that...
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Farley36 on March 01, 2021, 12:49:33 PM

When I checked Scoop this morning, one of my first thoughts:  "Marquette had a game on Saturday?!"

I don't recall the last time that happened. I'll openly admit that it's on me for not knowing the schedule, but...like I said...it's been a long time since I didn't know Marquette's schedule. Not sure exactly what to make of that...

Make if that they’re not worth paying attention to any more.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 01, 2021, 03:46:26 PM

When I checked Scoop this morning, one of my first thoughts:  "Marquette had a game on Saturday?!"

I don't recall the last time that happened. I'll openly admit that it's on me for not knowing the schedule, but...like I said...it's been a long time since I didn't know Marquette's schedule. Not sure exactly what to make of that...

This is the first season in 20+ that I've entirely missed games, thrice.  Didn't think about them, didn't watch a minute, only found out the score hours later. 

Yeah, apathy about the program is a problem.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MarquetteMike1977 on March 10, 2021, 04:07:27 PM
 I wash my hands of this as I wanted to take ESPN’s crappy deal 8 to 10 Years ago and remain in control of the conference. Was told  from people inside the AL when we joined the Old Big East our program was friends with a couple other programs and we had some control over the “Old” Big East, one of them them being UConn and the others I was told but will not name. I thought we were partially back when it was announced UConn was going to be rejoining and we started getting better whistles then when we first joined the “New” Big East and Buzz made no tournament and Wojo went 4-14 BE in his first year. The Program is in better shape then back then but agree we are not nearly as back as I thought unfortunately. Especially for a program with Top 10 National attendance. 3rd Last Place. Ugh. Disappointing and Frustrating. Does anyone have Beilein’s phone number. Am for MU Winning.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: jesmu84 on March 10, 2021, 04:09:26 PM
I wash my hands of this as I wanted to take ESPN’s crappy deal 8 to 10 Years ago and remain in control of the conference. Was told  from people inside the AL when we joined the Old Big East our program was friends with a couple other programs and we had some control over the “Old” Big East, one of them them being UConn and the others I was told but will not name. I thought we were partially back when it was announced UConn was going to be rejoining and we started getting better whistles then when we first joined the “New” Big East and Buzz made no tournament and Wojo went 4-14 BE in his first year. The Program is in better shape then back then but agree we are not nearly as back as I thought unfortunately. Especially for a program with Top 10 National attendance. 3rd Last Place. Ugh. Disappointing and Frustrating. Does anyone have Beilein’s phone number. Am for MU Winning.

Copy pasta?
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Spaniel with a Short Tail on March 10, 2021, 04:14:24 PM
I wash my hands of this as I wanted to take ESPN’s crappy deal 8 to 10 Years ago and remain in control of the conference. Was told  from people inside the AL when we joined the Old Big East our program was friends with a couple other programs and we had some control over the “Old” Big East, one of them them being UConn and the others I was told but will not name. I thought we were partially back when it was announced UConn was going to be rejoining and we started getting better whistles then when we first joined the “New” Big East and Buzz made no tournament and Wojo went 4-14 BE in his first year. The Program is in better shape then back then but agree we are not nearly as back as I thought unfortunately. Especially for a program with Top 10 National attendance. 3rd Last Place. Ugh. Disappointing and Frustrating. Does anyone have Beilein’s phone number. Am for MU Winning.

Isn't this ignoring the torpedo that Pitt and other Quislings put in the ESPN deal before jumping to the ACC?
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MarquetteMike1977 on March 10, 2021, 05:54:14 PM
Isn't this ignoring the torpedo that Pitt and other Quislings put in the ESPN deal before jumping to the ACC?

Yes agree PITT may have torpedoed it. Not that it matters but one of my Daughter’s graduated from PITT. Marquette could of said yes to the ESPN deal. Not that it matters much but one of my daughter’s graduated from CUSE. CUSE and UCONN  Boeheim and Calhoun and others could not believe MU turned down the ESPN deal. Knew people from UCONN as well. One of My Son’s is at MU. MU could of stayed added some crappy football schools and had a crappier conference But MU would have won just as many NCAA tournament games in 8 years lol and probably won more NCAA games and won more games overall. That decision was the opposite of hiring AL. But moving forward just want MU to be the best MU can be and get back and Win.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Viper on March 11, 2021, 07:59:55 AM

Yes agree PITT may have torpedoed it. Not that it matters but one of my Daughter’s graduated from PITT. Marquette could of said yes to the ESPN deal. Not that it matters much but one of my daughter’s graduated from CUSE. CUSE and UCONN  Boeheim and Calhoun and others could not believe MU turned down the ESPN deal. Knew people from UCONN as well. One of My Son’s is at MU. MU could of stayed added some crappy football schools and had a crappier conference But MU would have won just as many NCAA tournament games in 8 years lol and probably won more NCAA games and won more games overall. That decision was the opposite of hiring AL. But moving forward just want MU to be the best MU can be and get back and Win.
the programs to have joined MU in the crappy espn deal are? I was never down with a school in Omaha in the BE...but then again, Chi and Mke ain’t exactly ‘east’. But, you say MU never got whistles early on in the new BE. That would sound of conspiracy. Was there collusion between schools in the new BE to screw MU? Coaching & players is what it takes. MU has had marginal at best coaching and not enough players for 8 seasons now.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 11, 2021, 08:01:35 AM
Mike you might be the only person I know who thinks Marquette should have stayed in what is now the AAC.  I think that would have been a disaster.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: cheebs09 on March 11, 2021, 08:07:32 AM
Based on UCONN fan’s reaction to getting out of the AAC, I am very glad we didn’t stay. I don’t know how you can look at what happened after the Big East broke up as anything but a success for MU and the schools that continued the conference.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Uncle Rico on March 11, 2021, 08:20:42 AM
The current Big East is vastly superior to the Frankenstein league that was spawned trying to save football in the league
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on March 11, 2021, 08:29:23 AM
I wash my hands of this as I wanted to take ESPN’s crappy deal 8 to 10 Years ago and remain in control of the conference. Was told  from people inside the AL when we joined the Old Big East our program was friends with a couple other programs and we had some control over the “Old” Big East, one of them them being UConn and the others I was told but will not name. I thought we were partially back when it was announced UConn was going to be rejoining and we started getting better whistles then when we first joined the “New” Big East and Buzz made no tournament and Wojo went 4-14 BE in his first year. The Program is in better shape then back then but agree we are not nearly as back as I thought unfortunately. Especially for a program with Top 10 National attendance. 3rd Last Place. Ugh. Disappointing and Frustrating. Does anyone have Beilein’s phone number. Am for MU Winning.

Respectfully, by your rant/summary, you have very little awareness of how the former version of the old Big East broke apart and there was 0% chance of the hybrid model staying together.

Pittsburgh, behind the scenes, led a charge to reject ESPN's deal - as it was it in advanced discussions with the ACC with Syracuse.  It was being fed guidance on how to break apart the Big East, as ESPN saw more value breaking apart its most valuable pieces to other power conferences its controlled.  By the time Tranghese was axed by the Presidents, and Aresco was brought in, Aresco sold pyrite to the (then) league membership that "owning" markets like Houston, New Orleans (Tulane), Memphis, Orlando (UCF), Dallas (SMU), as well as Cincinnati, Tampa Bay (USF), Philadelphia (Temple/Villanova), D.C. (Georgetown) and New York City (St. John's) would, equally mind you, replace all of the value lost when the other schools departed (again, at the direction of Pitt/ESPN). 

It was actually Larry Williams, among a small group of other C7 ADs/Presidents, that led a charge to band together and recognize that they carried more value as a non-football conference than as a Frankenstein-hybrid conference.  Fox needed content, and we (the C7) needed a provider.  It was a marriage truly made in heaven, as the C7 was being paid double (and revenues are triple thanks to the success of Villanova) than that it ever received in the old Big East. 

Believe me, as bad as things are now, a successful Marquette program today would have been in worse shape if it had been relegated to a conference with Tulane, ECU, SMU, UCF, USF, Tulsa, etc.  Those are not basketball-first programs, and, frankly, many of those schools went years, if not decades, not caring about basketball that it will take many, many years of success to turn perceptions and recognition around.  Look no further than how Cincinnati Basketball has fallen.  Not only were they bad this year, they are in a non-major conference (despite being a high-major program).  UConn, like Cincinnati, sacrificed its basketball program in the name of football.  UConn recognized that it was not ever getting invited into a P5 conference.  Cincinnati has not come to that realization (yet).
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 11, 2021, 09:13:13 AM
Respectfully, by your rant/summary, you have very little awareness of how the former version of the old Big East broke apart and there was 0% chance of the hybrid model staying together.

Pittsburgh, behind the scenes, led a charge to reject ESPN's deal - as it was it in advanced discussions with the ACC with Syracuse.  It was being fed guidance on how to break apart the Big East, as ESPN saw more value breaking apart its most valuable pieces to other power conferences its controlled.  By the time Tranghese was axed by the Presidents, and Aresco was brought in, Aresco sold pyrite to the (then) league membership that "owning" markets like Houston, New Orleans (Tulane), Memphis, Orlando (UCF), Dallas (SMU), as well as Cincinnati, Tampa Bay (USF), Philadelphia (Temple/Villanova), D.C. (Georgetown) and New York City (St. John's) would, equally mind you, replace all of the value lost when the other schools departed (again, at the direction of Pitt/ESPN). 

It was actually Larry Williams, among a small group of other C7 ADs/Presidents, that led a charge to band together and recognize that they carried more value as a non-football conference than as a Frankenstein-hybrid conference.  Fox needed content, and we (the C7) needed a provider.  It was a marriage truly made in heaven, as the C7 was being paid double (and revenues are triple thanks to the success of Villanova) than that it ever received in the old Big East. 

Believe me, as bad as things are now, a successful Marquette program today would have been in worse shape if it had been relegated to a conference with Tulane, ECU, SMU, UCF, USF, Tulsa, etc.  Those are not basketball-first programs, and, frankly, many of those schools went years, if not decades, not caring about basketball that it will take many, many years of success to turn perceptions and recognition around.  Look no further than how Cincinnati Basketball has fallen.  Not only were they bad this year, they are in a non-major conference (despite being a high-major program).  UConn, like Cincinnati, sacrificed its basketball program in the name of football.  UConn recognized that it was not ever getting invited into a P5 conference.  Cincinnati has not come to that realization (yet).

After UConn announced independence in football and rejoining the Big East, their President & Athletic Director said they were both contacted by a few other schools about the process of "going independent" because they were considering to evaluate.  Both refused to mention any school names. 
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on March 11, 2021, 11:45:56 AM
After UConn announced independence in football and rejoining the Big East, their President & Athletic Director said they were both contacted by a few other schools about the process of "going independent" because they were considering to evaluate.  Both refused to mention any school names.

My guess? Boise State.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 11, 2021, 11:55:24 AM
My guess? Boise State.

Think downstate Ohio.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: f/k/a humanlung on March 11, 2021, 11:57:27 AM
as bad as this crap show season has been, it doesnt feel 2nd last only ahead of depaul bad

Yes it does.

You have been numbed by seven years of mediocrity, so the magnitude of the fall is understated to you.
Title: Re: MU Basketball Program
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on March 11, 2021, 12:11:31 PM
Think downstate Ohio.

Unlike UConn, Cincinnati does not have another place to go.  The Big East won't accept them due to Xavier, and Xavier will be a member of the Big East longer than Cincinnati ever was.