MU Basketball Program

[MU82]

Folks on this board: "we love Al cause he was a badass who didn't take crap from anyone and who didn't back down in any situation. He said what he wanted"

Same folks: "I can't believe Theo said something insulting. That's such a bad look for a MU rep"

Well ... Al did have a little better record to back up his bad-assery than Theo has. And I say that as somebody who has appreciated Theo's contribution to Marquette.

[NolongerWarriors]

Theo was tagged on the response because MU tagged him in the highlights.  So yes, MU put him in a position where he felt he needed to defend himself.  But IMO he shouldn't have engaged.  And DJ's mom's response was much worse.

Defend himself from what?

A fan implying most other fans have tuned out and lost interest?  I don't think his post can be interpreted as implying the team or any player has given up.

I do agree that the MUbball account is doing about as well as the team, though.

[Lennys Tap]

Folks on this board: "we love Al cause he was a badass who didn't take crap from anyone and who didn't back down in any situation. He said what he wanted"

Same folks: "I can't believe Theo said something insulting. That's such a bad look for a MU rep"

Al was a grown man who held strong opinions. He was not shy about sharing them. But he never insulted any Marquette fan, never told them to “see things my way or go away”. Or to STFU.

[21Jumpstreet]

I really appreciate your tone and your optimism, and as I said earlier in this stream I am on Theo's side.

However, players simply can't win in this situation. There is zero potential upside for them and 100% potential downside.

I agree with what brew and Sultan have said this morning. Players should not be put in a position to have to defend themselves. There are ways of limiting negative interactions without shutting down social media, and Marquette should take advantage of those.

Thanks, and I hear you for sure. Why is it about the players winning or losing? He is human, he reacted. I get the argument that players should be held to a higher standard, that they should not engage with frustrated fans (candidly, as I have said, I have no issue with either the original fan or Theo), and that they should shut up and dribble. I just disagree. Theo has every right to step up and defend himself, he will have to deal with any program/school consequences. MU is highlighting the good performances in an otherwise poor latter half of the season. I would rather that than commiserating (which I absolutely do, it’s a difficult habit to break. I can’t quit you MU!).

I am really just saying there is so much passing the buck, passing the blame/responsibility to others. Human up, take responsibility. And, when we are talking about a 22-year old young man, we have to allow for him to be emotional, frustrated, immature. I can hear it now, well then Theo should have to human up and take responsibility, be more mature, don’t tell a fan to STFU, don’t blame the fan. I get it. But, we have total control over how we react to this. Why not make it a chance to show our empathy, our care for Theo. He is learning, and he’s pissed. That’s a difficult situation for anyone to be in.

I think MU should continue to highlight performers and tag the players in their posts. I think players should refrain from addressing any post they deem negative. I think Ms. Carton should be praised for supporting her son and be told what she is doing is not benefitting that same son she seems to strongly want to support. I think fans should be better humans.

We Are Marquette!

[Galway Eagle]

If Carton's dreams are to be an NBA player is his mom going to spend her days attacking every nut job that trolls those accounts? Because at least most MU fans are college educated, she's going to be in for a different level of terrible responses from some of the Pro fans.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Folks on this board: "we love Al cause he was a badass who didn't take crap from anyone and who didn't back down in any situation. He said what he wanted"

Same folks: "I can't believe Theo said something insulting. That's such a bad look for a MU rep"

Al, for better or worse, did not have to live during the social media age.  Our current coaches, players and parents do. 

This same standards can be applied to a variety of industries and individuals; it's not just MU-related.

[MuggsyB]

Well, we can still lose out.  We could still lose to DePaul again.  We can lose in the Wednesday game at the BET.  Each of those, separately, would cause frustrations and anger to spike, but all three? 

Look, after the St. John's loss (and that was after the DePaul and Providence losses), we were going to be underdogs in nearly all of the remaining games (we were favorites at home vs. Butler).  The collapsing trajectory after St. John's was very real and a strong possibility.  With how we have been playing and our continued struggles against conference competition, we very much need to play both a great 40 minutes of basketball coupled with our opponents playing below their standards just to win games (I actually was surprised we forced Seton Hall to devalue the basketball as much as we regularly do - but we aren't a strong outside shooting team, so unless John AND Garcia take over, it is still hard to do enough to win).

3-25 from distance and a goose egg from Garcia isn't going to get it done. That includes a combined 1-17 from those not named Carton.  I don't think we can shoot worse than that.  The only reason the game was competitive is because the Hall had 10 turns in the 1st half and couldn't hit a shot as well.   I thought it was as poor a game of basketball as you'll see, not good defense. 

We cannot play worse offensively than we did yesterday.  The fact remains that Butler, DePaul, UCONN, and XU are all very, very, beatable.  I expect these guys to compete but am always concerned about turnovers, execution,  and poise down the stretch.  If we were to lose out, which is possible, it would be worse.  Especially if we are not competitive.  I dunno why but I think we will find a way to squeeze out another win or two.  Having slept on it I feel our opponents are so weak that we will find a way....probably twice.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Muggsy
From your lips to God's ear, as they say
I'm still hoping for a win or two if just for the young men's sake. I know they must be just as frustrated as we are.

[NolongerWarriors]

Thanks, and I hear you for sure. Why is it about the players winning or losing? He is human, he reacted. I get the argument that players should be held to a higher standard, that they should not engage with frustrated fans (candidly, as I have said, I have no issue with either the original fan or Theo), and that they should shut up and dribble. I just disagree. Theo has every right to step up and defend himself, he will have to deal with any program/school consequences. MU is highlighting the good performances in an otherwise poor latter half of the season. I would rather that than commiserating (which I absolutely do, it’s a difficult habit to break. I can’t quit you MU!).

I am really just saying there is so much passing the buck, passing the blame/responsibility to others. Human up, take responsibility. And, when we are talking about a 22-year old young man, we have to allow for him to be emotional, frustrated, immature. I can hear it now, well then Theo should have to human up and take responsibility, be more mature, don’t tell a fan to STFU, don’t blame the fan. I get it. But, we have total control over how we react to this. Why not make it a chance to show our empathy, our care for Theo. He is learning, and he’s pissed. That’s a difficult situation for anyone to be in.

I think MU should continue to highlight performers and tag the players in their posts. I think players should refrain from addressing any post they deem negative. I think Ms. Carton should be praised for supporting her son and be told what she is doing is not benefitting that same son she seems to strongly want to support. I think fans should be better humans.

We Are Marquette!

"Human up?"

Good grief.

[21Jumpstreet]

"Human up?"

Good grief.

Said it specifically to see if someone would say this. Good grief indeed.

On a side note, can’t win if we can’t make buckets.

[NolongerWarriors]

Said it specifically to see if someone would say this. Good grief indeed.

On a side note, can’t win if we can’t make buckets.

You said something absurd to get a reaction?

[21Jumpstreet]

You said something absurd to get a reaction?

Sure did ish, absurd is an opinion, more of a indictment on how we think Theo should be mentally stronger for arbitrary reasons. And to show how easy it is to say something that we might not understand how others take it. I was putting myself in a hypocrital position, cause we all do. Honestly, I felt a little who the eff am I, my opinion is just that and no more important than anyone else. Probably a stretch connection, but I was trying something. Anyway, I wish we weren’t a dumpster fire.

[MU82]

Thanks, and I hear you for sure. Why is it about the players winning or losing? He is human, he reacted. I get the argument that players should be held to a higher standard, that they should not engage with frustrated fans (candidly, as I have said, I have no issue with either the original fan or Theo), and that they should shut up and dribble. I just disagree. Theo has every right to step up and defend himself, he will have to deal with any program/school consequences. MU is highlighting the good performances in an otherwise poor latter half of the season. I would rather that than commiserating (which I absolutely do, it’s a difficult habit to break. I can’t quit you MU!).

I am really just saying there is so much passing the buck, passing the blame/responsibility to others. Human up, take responsibility. And, when we are talking about a 22-year old young man, we have to allow for him to be emotional, frustrated, immature. I can hear it now, well then Theo should have to human up and take responsibility, be more mature, don’t tell a fan to STFU, don’t blame the fan. I get it. But, we have total control over how we react to this. Why not make it a chance to show our empathy, our care for Theo. He is learning, and he’s pissed. That’s a difficult situation for anyone to be in.

I think MU should continue to highlight performers and tag the players in their posts. I think players should refrain from addressing any post they deem negative. I think Ms. Carton should be praised for supporting her son and be told what she is doing is not benefitting that same son she seems to strongly want to support. I think fans should be better humans.

We Are Marquette!

I respectfully disagree with much of this, and will leave it at that.

I do like your tone, and I do agree with your last paragraph.

We Are Marquette!

[21Jumpstreet]

I respectfully disagree with much of this, and will leave it at that.

I do like your tone, and I do agree with your last paragraph.

We Are Marquette!

Sincerely appreciate the dialog. Disagreement brings about change, right?! Appreciate the “respectfully” but I assume that, no need to qualify.

Man, I hope we improve, we have all had some great MU b-ball memories over the years. I just watched the DWade doc with my 14 yo son (who reminds me of DJ which is probably why I am biased to give DJ so much credit and leeway) and my wife and I reminisced about going to all the tourney games in 2003 including the final four. Good times!

[MU82]

Sincerely appreciate the dialog. Disagreement brings about change, right?! Appreciate the “respectfully” but I assume that, no need to qualify.

Man, I hope we improve, we have all had some great MU b-ball memories over the years. I just watched the DWade doc with my 14 yo son (who reminds me of DJ which is probably why I am biased to give DJ so much credit and leeway) and my wife and I reminisced about going to all the tourney games in 2003 including the final four. Good times!

Good times, indeed. And there will be more eventually!

[BCHoopster]

If Carton's dreams are to be an NBA player is his mom going to spend her days attacking every nut job that trolls those accounts? Because at least most MU fans are college educated, she's going to be in for a different level of terrible responses from some of the Pro fans.

Carton is not even close to be NBA ready, yes he has some good qualities, but at times he is just not tough enough with the ball in his hands or he makes a weak pass,
that will not be tolerated in the NBA.  The biggest weakness he has to work on this summer is a mid-range jump shot which he does not have at all.  Plus he has
to work on his right hand, very left handed dominant with his moves.  I think a good summer and 1 more year in college would be a great benefit to him.  Just do not
go the Vander Blue mistake.

[Galway Eagle]

Carton is not even close to be NBA ready, yes he has some good qualities, but at times he is just not tough enough with the ball in his hands or he makes a weak pass,
that will not be tolerated in the NBA.  The biggest weakness he has to work on this summer is a mid-range jump shot which he does not have at all.  Plus he has
to work on his right hand, very left handed dominant with his moves.  I think a good summer and 1 more year in college would be a great benefit to him.  Just do not
go the Vander Blue mistake.

You're right he's not NBA ready. You're right about the things he definitely needs to work on. But unless he's invested in college publicity and experience there's no reason to stay.

There's plenty of minor leagues he can work on those things in without the restrictions of NCAA off season coaching time. Plus he'd get paid.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

3-25 from distance and a goose egg from Garcia isn't going to get it done. That includes a combined 1-17 from those not named Carton.  I don't think we can shoot worse than that.  The only reason the game was competitive is because the Hall had 10 turns in the 1st half and couldn't hit a shot as well.   I thought it was as poor a game of basketball as you'll see, not good defense. 

We cannot play worse offensively than we did yesterday.  The fact remains that Butler, DePaul, UCONN, and XU are all very, very, beatable.  I expect these guys to compete but am always concerned about turnovers, execution,  and poise down the stretch.  If we were to lose out, which is possible, it would be worse.  Especially if we are not competitive.  I dunno why but I think we will find a way to squeeze out another win or two.  Having slept on it I feel our opponents are so weak that we will find a way....probably twice.

Marquette:
2/14 Guarded Threes
1/11 Unguarded Threes

Seton Hall:
3/11 Guarded Threes
1/4 Unguarded Threes

Mugsy, you keep saying Marquette didn't play good defense and it was just Seton Hall missing shots. It's simply not true. The numbers above from Synergy tell the tale. Marquette only surrendered 4 unguarded threes all game. Meanwhile, Seton Hall gave up 11 unguarded threes, all but one of them to guys who shoot over 35% on the season. Story of the game yesterday was that Marquette played good defense but couldn't hit Lake Michigan from Bradford Beach.

It doesn't matter. Wojo has let the program backslide too much since last February, he still needs to go. But be honest about what happened yesterday.

[BCHoopster]

A college education is really important to a fringe player, someday he might need a degree

[MuggsyB]

Marquette:
2/14 Guarded Threes
1/11 Unguarded Threes

Seton Hall:
3/11 Guarded Threes
1/4 Unguarded Threes

Mugsy, you keep saying Marquette didn't play good defense and it was just Seton Hall missing shots. It's simply not true. The numbers above from Synergy tell the tale. Marquette only surrendered 4 unguarded threes all game. Meanwhile, Seton Hall gave up 11 unguarded threes, all but one of them to guys who shoot over 35% on the season. Story of the game yesterday was that Marquette played good defense but couldn't hit Lake Michigan from Bradford Beach.

It doesn't matter. Wojo has let the program backslide too much since last February, he still needs to go. But be honest about what happened yesterday.

I thought we rebounded well.  I also thought Mamu had an unusually poor game and SH did a poor job.attacking the rim.  We' may have statistically defended well but The Hall's sloppy turns and poor shot selection contributed to it.  I also think there is a wide range of actual contested shots.  Perhaps I am biased because I am extremely frustrated with our record but this is a flawed defensive and offensive team. 

[onepost]

I debated whether or not to even jump into this.  But at this point, whatever.
I am "the fan" who tweeted back and forth with Theo yesterday.  I've doxxed myself before on here so I'm sure someone can track down those posts if they want, and my guy WRK can vouch for it too.

"Who even cares anymore" is a pretty mild postgame comment, particularly when sent to the void of the @MarquetteMBB FINAL mentions.  Brew, Fluffy, others have hit on it, but when I commented, I didn't see Theo or DJ tagged in the initial post.  Had I realized that, I would have simply untagged them, or just thought better of even saying something snarky.

The irony is two weeks prior (1/31/21), some troll went out of his way tagging DJ in a postgame tweet about "how unnatural carnal knowledgeing stupid are you?" on a @MarquetteMBB thread and I told HIM to grow up.  Despite what some here probably think, I am incredibly anti-player bashing on twitter.  It's terrible.  Which is why I did my best to diffuse things with Theo and DJ's mom.  It's not being "cowardly" or "back-stepping", as some here have said, I responded what I did with them unknowingly tagged and wanted to reiterate when called out that my issue is not with the players and their effort.

On a thread of crap, littered with "we unnatural carnal knowledgeing suck", or "what a joke", and two dozen "#FIREWOJO", am I surprised Theo picked out MY relatively innocuous tweet to comment on?  Sure.  For the record, for those clutching their pearls on my behalf (aka Kyle Marks on twitter who really needs to stop), I have no problem with Theo responding to me like he did.  I shared my graduation from frustration to apathy and he told me to STFU.  Big deal.  Like I told him and others in the resulting crapstorm, I appreciate his passion and don't doubt those guys have it.  Do I think DJ's mom needs to stop SEEKING OUT tweets her son is mentioned (most often not even tagged in) in and telling people to unnatural carnal knowledge off after every game?  Absolutely.

I love MUBB and genuinely love the players in this program.  I don't regret for a second what I tweeted because I stand by it, fans are becoming apathetic in droves: and it'll only be made worse by retaining Wojo.  But I should have been more cognizant of who was tagged in my reply, and I'll 100% own that mistake.  Because these guys don't need personal @'s (mentions for those not on twitter) reminding them of how awful this season is.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I debated whether or not to even jump into this.  But at this point, whatever.
I am "the fan" who tweeted back and forth with Theo yesterday.  I've doxxed myself before on here so I'm sure someone can track down those posts if they want, and my guy WRK can vouch for it too.

"Who even cares anymore" is a pretty mild postgame comment, particularly when sent to the void of the @MarquetteMBB FINAL mentions.  Brew, Fluffy, others have hit on it, but when I commented, I didn't see Theo or DJ tagged in the initial post.  Had I realized that, I would have simply untagged them, or just thought better of even saying something snarky.

The irony is two weeks prior (1/31/21), some troll went out of his way tagging DJ in a postgame tweet about "how unnatural carnal knowledgeing stupid are you?" on a @MarquetteMBB thread and I told HIM to grow up.  Despite what some here probably think, I am incredibly anti-player bashing on twitter.  It's terrible.  Which is why I did my best to diffuse things with Theo and DJ's mom.  It's not being "cowardly" or "back-stepping", as some here have said, I responded what I did with them unknowingly tagged and wanted to reiterate when called out that my issue is not with the players and their effort.

On a thread of crap, littered with "we unnatural carnal knowledgeing suck", or "what a joke", and two dozen "#FIREWOJO", am I surprised Theo picked out MY relatively innocuous tweet to comment on?  Sure.  For the record, for those clutching their pearls on my behalf (aka Kyle Marks on twitter who really needs to stop), I have no problem with Theo responding to me like he did.  I shared my graduation from frustration to apathy and he told me to STFU.  Big deal.  Like I told him and others in the resulting crapstorm, I appreciate his passion and don't doubt those guys have it.  Do I think DJ's mom needs to stop SEEKING OUT tweets her son is mentioned (most often not even tagged in) in and telling people to unnatural carnal knowledge off after every game?  Absolutely.

I love MUBB and genuinely love the players in this program.  I don't regret for a second what I tweeted because I stand by it, fans are becoming apathetic in droves: and it'll only be made worse by retaining Wojo.  But I should have been more cognizant of who was tagged in my reply, and I'll 100% own that mistake.  Because these guys don't need personal @'s (mentions for those not on twitter) reminding them of how awful this season is.

I thought you handled it well, and agree with you about both Theo and DJ's mom.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Appreciate your candor OnePost.

[HutchwasClutch]

I debated whether or not to even jump into this.  But at this point, whatever.
I am "the fan" who tweeted back and forth with Theo yesterday.  I've doxxed myself before on here so I'm sure someone can track down those posts if they want, and my guy WRK can vouch for it too.

"Who even cares anymore" is a pretty mild postgame comment, particularly when sent to the void of the @MarquetteMBB FINAL mentions.  Brew, Fluffy, others have hit on it, but when I commented, I didn't see Theo or DJ tagged in the initial post.  Had I realized that, I would have simply untagged them, or just thought better of even saying something snarky.

The irony is two weeks prior (1/31/21), some troll went out of his way tagging DJ in a postgame tweet about "how unnatural carnal knowledgeing stupid are you?" on a @MarquetteMBB thread and I told HIM to grow up.  Despite what some here probably think, I am incredibly anti-player bashing on twitter.  It's terrible.  Which is why I did my best to diffuse things with Theo and DJ's mom.  It's not being "cowardly" or "back-stepping", as some here have said, I responded what I did with them unknowingly tagged and wanted to reiterate when called out that my issue is not with the players and their effort.

On a thread of crap, littered with "we unnatural carnal knowledgeing suck", or "what a joke", and two dozen "#FIREWOJO", am I surprised Theo picked out MY relatively innocuous tweet to comment on?  Sure.  For the record, for those clutching their pearls on my behalf (aka Kyle Marks on twitter who really needs to stop), I have no problem with Theo responding to me like he did.  I shared my graduation from frustration to apathy and he told me to STFU.  Big deal.  Like I told him and others in the resulting crapstorm, I appreciate his passion and don't doubt those guys have it.  Do I think DJ's mom needs to stop SEEKING OUT tweets her son is mentioned (most often not even tagged in) in and telling people to unnatural carnal knowledge off after every game?  Absolutely.

I love MUBB and genuinely love the players in this program.  I don't regret for a second what I tweeted because I stand by it, fans are becoming apathetic in droves: and it'll only be made worse by retaining Wojo.  But I should have been more cognizant of who was tagged in my reply, and I'll 100% own that mistake.  Because these guys don't need personal @'s (mentions for those not on twitter) reminding them of how awful this season is.

Jennifer Carton seems to just be spoiling for a Twitter fight.  She looks ridiculous and very immature. 

[MU82]

A college education is really important to a fringe player, someday he might need a degree

And he can get one someday, if he wants to. Most non-redshirted college basketball and football players do not get degrees during their 4 years of eligibility.

I agree with you that DJ is not ready for the NBA and I also agree with what you cite as his shortcomings. However, Galway is right about there being places other than college where he can work on improving, and arguably those other places are better than college to do it.

And again, whether or not a player is "ready" often has little to do with his decision.