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Author Topic: Demonic thoughts  (Read 2130 times)

mileskishnish72

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Demonic thoughts
« on: January 23, 2021, 09:06:47 PM »
Can't possibly comment with the inciciveness of Tower, but to stimulate discussion, thought I'd put forward a few thoughts.

1. There did not seem to be an offensive gameplan. A lot of standing around.
2. DJ doesn't seem to be a real point. Very loose handle.
3. No evidence of Wojo input.
4. Theo exposed on his lack of hops.
5. A brief few minutes of energy, spurred by Koby's play. Then back to blah.
6. It will take some impressive results vs. BE opponents to overcome this embarassment.
7. It's going to be a tough night when no obne shows up.

4everwarriors

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2021, 09:09:00 PM »
Free BeeJay2021
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MUfan12

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2021, 09:15:49 PM »
In the coach's defense, deciding to press seemed to up the energy level in #5.

But I don't understand why Sy is getting minutes over Elliott at this point. And why Garcia is only a screener/decoy.

panda

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2021, 09:17:22 PM »
In the coach's defense, deciding to press seemed to up the energy level in #5.

But I don't understand why Sy is getting minutes over Elliott at this point. And why Garcia is only a screener/decoy.

Lots of things went wrong tongiht, but Symir taking more than one three pointer is number one for me. Get the kid into the lane and make a pass. Why encourage a bad shooter to shoot?

brewcity77

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2021, 08:10:18 AM »
There seemed to be a real lack of urgency from the start. Like they expected DePaul to roll over. Wojo said he told them to play like their lives depended on it, but they ran out of steam after taking back the lead. If only they'd shown that urgency from the start.

At this point, I'm at a loss regarding the turnovers. It's no longer a bug but a feature for this team.

In a recent game, I was glad to see them keep feeding the post because they were just missing good looks. Tonight, it was clear DePaul was eating our bigs inside and we kept going into their shot blocker. They didn't feel like good looks.

Shot distribution was a problem. Theo & Sy should not both be getting more shots than Garcia.

I feel like there's good DJ and bad DJ and both will surface in the same game. Last night he opened with the turnovers, gained composure & carried us to the lead, then when he missed those free throws, just kept forcing to try to make up for it. Very uneven performance.

As much as Wojo overperforms against Bucky, he underperforms against DePaul. We haven't played in a NCAA tournament in any season we lost to DePaul under Wojo. At this point, 2021 would be no exception. This team has no margin for error and needs to add multiple quality wins to offset this loss.
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Spaniel with a Short Tail

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2021, 10:10:40 AM »
DJ's 2 missed FTs were ominous. The turning point IMO.

GoldenWarrior11

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2021, 10:22:16 AM »
There seemed to be a real lack of urgency from the start. Like they expected DePaul to roll over. Wojo said he told them to play like their lives depended on it, but they ran out of steam after taking back the lead. If only they'd shown that urgency from the start.

Even down ten in the second half, we continue to walk the ball up and resist playing fast.  No urgency is 100% spot-on. 

TSmith34

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2021, 01:29:59 PM »
At this point, I'm at a loss regarding the turnovers. It's no longer a bug but a feature for this team.
So here is a question that national stats may or may not provide any insight on...

We know Wojo's defensive philosophy is risk averse and doesn't attempt to force steals for the most part. So in practice, the team is going against a defense that doesn't attempt to turn the ball over much...then in real games e face much more aggressive defensive schemes. Is this one source of the horrible turnover problems?

Is there a correlation between not turning over opponents and turning it over yourselves that is independent of team quality? Because of course you'd expect bad teams to have bad turnover differentials as well.
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Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2021, 01:34:05 PM »
Wisconsin's defense is risk adverse too, and they hardly ever turn the ball over.

It's a discipline thing. 
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Nukem2

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2021, 01:35:15 PM »
So here is a question that national stats may or may not provide any insight on...

We know Wojo's defensive philosophy is risk averse and doesn't attempt to force steals for the most part. So in practice, the team is going against a defense that doesn't attempt to turn the ball over much...then in real games e face much more aggressive defensive schemes. Is this one source of the horrible turnover problems?

Is there a correlation between not turning over opponents and turning it over yourselves that is independent of team quality? Because of course you'd expect bad teams to have bad turnover differentials as well.
May well be, but this team really has a lot of unforced  TOs or puts the ball in precarious spots that make steals easy.

TSmith34

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2021, 01:40:37 PM »
May well be, but this team really has a lot of unforced  TOs or puts the ball in precarious spots that make steals easy.
Agreed, they do have a lot of unforced errors. Cain simply can't dribble, Theo is good for at least one offensive foul or travel per game, etc.

But, you also have the fact that they have trouble any time they are pressed, you have DJ who dribbles the ball in front of defenders in a way that begs to be picked, as if he is never pressured in practice, etc.

There are definitely multiple issues, just wondering if their own defensive philosophy contributes to it.
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Jables1604

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2021, 03:39:32 PM »

brewcity77

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2021, 04:22:32 PM »
So here is a question that national stats may or may not provide any insight on...

We know Wojo's defensive philosophy is risk averse and doesn't attempt to force steals for the most part. So in practice, the team is going against a defense that doesn't attempt to turn the ball over much...then in real games e face much more aggressive defensive schemes. Is this one source of the horrible turnover problems?

Is there a correlation between not turning over opponents and turning it over yourselves that is independent of team quality? Because of course you'd expect bad teams to have bad turnover differentials as well.

I've thought about that, but programs like Villanova and (as mentioned) Wisconsin aren't high pressure defenses and they generally don't turn it over. Looking at the kenpom four factors, it seems to be pretty incidental.
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tower912

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2021, 07:45:03 PM »
No energy.
Allowed Depaul's aggressive play to make them play passive.
KOBY the only senior showing leadership.
Garcia taken out of the game.
More Greg, less Symir.
Wojo chooses to have 10 and play 8.  Limits options when you have a team playing without energy.  Half expected the 5 player substitution.

As pathetic a game as I have seen from MU in the Wojo era.
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willie warrior

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2021, 08:39:15 PM »
No energy.
Allowed Depaul's aggressive play to make them play passive.
KOBY the only senior showing leadership.
Garcia taken out of the game.
More Greg, less Symir.
Wojo chooses to have 10 and play 8.  Limits options when you have a team playing without energy.  Half expected the 5 player substitution.

As pathetic a game as I have seen from MU in the Wojo era.
But never a short succinct statement like Wojo has gots to go.

MuggsyB

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2021, 08:50:52 PM »
No energy.
Allowed Depaul's aggressive play to make them play passive.
KOBY the only senior showing leadership.
Garcia taken out of the game.
More Greg, less Symir.
Wojo chooses to have 10 and play 8.  Limits options when you have a team playing without energy.  Half expected the 5 player substitution.

As pathetic a game as I have seen from MU in the Wojo era.

Finally got to watch the replay.  Wow....that was awful.  Your points are well taken Tower.  I have no clue what we were thinking in our offensive sets.

The Big East

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2021, 08:59:45 PM »
Finally got to watch the replay.  Wow....that was awful.  Your points are well taken Tower.  I have no clue what we were thinking in our offensive sets.
Glad you saw the game. As you now witnessed, DePaul actually played lousy as well, so we had to play an especially poor game to lose. 

MuggsyB

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2021, 10:08:03 PM »
Glad you saw the game. As you now witnessed, DePaul actually played lousy as well, so we had to play an especially poor game to lose.

I couldn't agree more.  The first 25+ mins were absolutely brutal.

Johnny B

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2021, 10:36:08 PM »
Finally got to watch the replay.  Wow....that was awful.  Your points are well taken Tower.  I have no clue what we were thinking in our offensive sets.
how could you subject yourself to that hell

MuggsyB

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2021, 10:58:25 PM »
how could you subject yourself to that hell

I will always root for this team and program but that was an absolute s-show by every observable metric.  I think what's most frustrating is that our meltdowns are in so many areas and there is no evidence of team or individual improvement.  We also seemingly don't have a plan B or make any in game adjustments.  There was a stretch were Theo and Justin insisted on trying to score one on one vs a shot-blocker in the low post.  They held the ball, tried to bull their way in, and literally never looked to move the basketball.   Lots of standing around and atrocious spacing offensively is killing this team.  We probably should go small the rest of the season. 

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2021, 07:27:59 AM »
I couldn't agree more.  The first 25+ mins were absolutely brutal.

My son, who is a basketball fan but not a Marquette fan, stood up at halftime and said "I don't know why you watch this sh*t" and left the room.

He has a point.
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MuggsyB

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2021, 07:49:42 AM »
My son, who is a basketball fan but not a Marquette fan, stood up at halftime and said "I don't know why you watch this sh*t" and left the room.

He has a point.

He certainly does FBM.  The lack of discipline on this team and basic fundamentals is eye-opening.  And they're in many areas on both ends of the floor.  Now it's possible I and others have overestimated our talent but I do believe we are still capable of beating any team in our league as we did Creighton. 

However, our margin for error is infinitesimal because we kick the ball away like 6th graders.   Worse, with the exception of McEwen, I did not see great tenacity and effort on the floor.  There is a lack of leadership and toughness combined with a lot of confusion and hesitation.  This is a formula for death in college hoops and it's extremely upsetting.  Hopefully we come out with our hair on fire Wednesday because among very bad performances, that was utter garbage at a biblical level. 
« Last Edit: January 25, 2021, 07:51:20 AM by MuggsyB »

panda

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2021, 08:03:02 AM »
He certainly does FBM.  The lack of discipline on this team and basic fundamentals is eye-opening.  And they're in many areas on both ends of the floor.  Now it's possible I and others have overestimated our talent but I do believe we are still capable of beating any team in our league as we did Creighton. 

However, our margin for error is infinitesimal because we kick the ball away like 6th graders.   Worse, with the exception of McEwen, I did not see great tenacity and effort on the floor.  There is a lack of leadership and toughness combined with a lot of confusion and hesitation.  This is a formula for death in college hoops and it's extremely upsetting.  Hopefully we come out with our hair on fire Wednesday because among very bad performances, that was utter garbage at a biblical level.

We can go over each deficiency until we’re blue in the face but the most troublesome part to me is the amount of time the team and coaching staff had to develop and execute scouting reports and game plans against the three worst teams in conference.

9 days for Georgetown
3 days for SJU
6 days for DePaul

Save SJU which is a normal turnaround in normal times, having at least a week to come up with and execute a game plan against Gtown and DePaul is more than adequate and we saw two of the most abject performances of the Wojo era in those two games..

Silent Verbal

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2021, 08:09:33 AM »
We can go over each deficiency until we’re blue in the face but the most troublesome part to me is the amount of time the team and coaching staff had to develop and execute scouting reports and game plans against the three worst teams in conference.

9 days for Georgetown
3 days for SJU
6 days for DePaul

Save SJU which is a normal turnaround in normal times, having at least a week to come up with and execute a game plan against Gtown and DePaul is more than adequate and we saw two of the most abject performances of the Wojo era in those two games..

What’s even more maddening is that earlier in the year Wojo had tried to excuse his team’s poor play by saying they were tired.  In his postgame presser after DePaul, he said MU was, “young in some key spots...but that’s not an excuse.”  The guy is just the worst.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Demonic thoughts
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2021, 08:14:41 AM »
I don't think he was "excusing" a poor performance.  They were worn out.  That happens throughout a season.

If you want coaches to speak honestly and not just give you sound bites, don't crucify them when they do.  There are a lot of things to be worried about when it comes to Wojo, him saying the players are tired is hardly one of them.
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