Insurrectiongate 2021

[GooooMarquette]

Love this.  "Our country is more important than the politics of the moment"*.  I am praying our leaders (elected officials and otherwise) on both sides act as such.

* https://twitter.com/TheBushCenter/status/1346963094409539591

Yep. The more prominent Republicans who speak out loudly and clearly against this, the better. Regardless of what one thinks of GWB's policies, he is a decent human being and loyal American.

[ATL MU Warrior]

To my point above about Republicans clearly and strongly denouncing what happened today...part of a statement from Ben Sasse:

"Today, the United States Capitol — the world's greatest symbol of self-government — was ransacked while the leader of the free world cowered behind his keyboard — tweeting against his vice president for fulfilling the duties of his oath to the Constitution," he said in a statement.

"Lies have consequences," he continued. "This violence was the inevitable and ugly outcome of the president's addiction to constantly stoking division."

Good for Sasse. I hope many Republicans follow suit.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. If this was inevitable, shouldn't he have done something prior to now to prevent it? 

[Galway Eagle]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. If this was inevitable, shouldn't he have done something prior to now to prevent it?

Such as? He's part of a very small minority of congress willing to break from Trump but he's still a small minority.

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

My dad called me today and went "Olympus has Fallen really isn't that far fetched."

[Jockey]

Sure, but how? The two mechanisms are the 25th Amendment or Impeachment and ratification.

The 25th requires a majority of the members of his Cabinet to go along. Can you tell me which of his sycophants would vote to remove him via the 25th?

Removal through Impeachment ratification requires 67 Senators to agree. I'd say this is slightly more likely, but will it happen within the next two weeks? Or next 48 hours?

You're probably right, T. But after today, maybe they would go along with Pence.

[tower912]

Apparently, Michigan was a dry run in more ways than one.   Storming the capitol.  And there is now reporting there were plans to kidnap legislators and hold trials, just like that group was arrested for during the autumn here in Michigan.   Woo-hoo.  Michigan ahead of the curve!

[ATL MU Warrior]

Such as? He's part of a very small minority of congress willing to break from Trump but he's still a small minority.

He occasionally disagrees with Trump, and sometimes he'll say so via social media. How courageous! 

He's a smart dude (I have said this before but I grew up in the same town and he was a grade behind me in school) but he is nothing but a coward when it comes to Trump.

[GooooMarquette]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. If this was inevitable, shouldn't he have done something prior to now to prevent it?

What on earth could he possibly have done? He does not have authority over the Capitol Police, the DC metro police department or the National Guard. He does not even have the ability to force a vote on a Senate resolution. Any specific ideas, or just general criticism?

I am not trying to paint Sasse as some sort of hero, but at least he has been trying to say the right things.

[Billy Hoyle]

The romanticizing and intellectualizing of "revolutionary" violence has got to stop on all sides. On one side we have wanton destruction of property and businesses, on the other storming the Capitol building while acting out a moronic con man's fantasies?  If you support one you cannot support the other (and vice versa) without being a flaming hypocrite and providing the opposite side justification for what they're doing.

I've seen a lot of people on the far right claiming "antifa" was infiltrating today's festivities and were the real culprits (it's already been condemned and debunked by one of the biggest antifa scaremongers around, BTW), just as people on the far left claim "white supremacists" are actually responsible for violence and destruction for which far left groups proudly take credit (some less than 5 minutes from my home and in two instances, my wife's offices). Doing that just emboldens the other side and is to blame for what happened today. You're not revolutionaries or freedom fighters, on par with the troops in WW2 or the American Revolutionaries, you're idiots, terrorists, seditionists, and criminals.

As the great troubadour Dave Hause (my last pre-COVID concert) wrote and sang: "Let's be saboteurs. Take 'em down from the inside."

[wadesworld]

The romanticizing and intellectualizing of "revolutionary" violence has got to stop on all sides. On one side we have wanton destruction of property and businesses, on the other storming the Capitol building while acting out a moronic con man's fantasies?  If you support one you cannot support the other (and vice versa) without being a flaming hypocrite and providing the opposite side justification for what they're doing.

I've seen a lot of people on the far right claiming "antifa" was infiltrating today's festivities and were the real culprits (it's already been condemned and debunked by one of the biggest antifa scaremongers around, BTW), just as people on the far left claim "white supremacists" are actually responsible for violence and destruction for which far left groups proudly take credit (some less than 5 minutes from my home and in two instances, my wife's offices). Doing that just emboldens the other side and is to blame for what happened today. You're not revolutionaries or freedom fighters, on par with the troops in WW2 or the American Revolutionaries, you're idiots, terrorists, seditionists, and criminals.

As the great troubadour Dave Hause (my last pre-COVID concert) wrote and sang: "Let's be saboteurs. Take 'em down from the inside."

Sorry, but some of the riots and violence were started by right extremists this summer.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/alleged-followers-of-boogaloo-movement-face-charges-linked-to-protests-11592920008

[Galway Eagle]

The romanticizing and intellectualizing of "revolutionary" violence has got to stop on all sides. On one side we have wanton destruction of property and businesses, on the other storming the Capitol building while acting out a moronic con man's fantasies?  If you support one you cannot support the other (and vice versa) without being a flaming hypocrite and providing the opposite side justification for what they're doing.

I've seen a lot of people on the far right claiming "antifa" was infiltrating today's festivities and were the real culprits (it's already been condemned and debunked by one of the biggest antifa scaremongers around, BTW), just as people on the far left claim "white supremacists" are actually responsible for violence and destruction for which far left groups proudly take credit (some less than 5 minutes from my home and in two instances, my wife's offices). Doing that just emboldens the other side and is to blame for what happened today. You're not revolutionaries or freedom fighters, on par with the troops in WW2 or the American Revolutionaries, you're idiots, terrorists, seditionists, and criminals.

As the great troubadour Dave Hause (my last pre-COVID concert) wrote and sang: "Let's be saboteurs. Take 'em down from the inside."

While I'm against both versions of violence, it has to be acknowledged it's a different end goal. One is protests for equality and awareness to perceived injustice where opportune criminals have joined and corrupted. The other amounts to essentially overthrowing democracy.

Still though thanks again for the Dave Haus recommendation last year, a few  songs made it to my top songs of 2020. Though to give a tip, I wouldn't yell that you're against BLM at his shows.

[wadesworld]

https://youtu.be/8e7Sak9xQgg

I don't condone violence or looting or rioting. But I also don't face police brutality or systemic racism on a daily basis. People say protest peacefully. Then they get mad when someone kneels during a National Anthem or wears a black uniform or a patch on a uniform. So what's the answer? Just forget the cause?

[The Sultan]

The romanticizing and intellectualizing of "revolutionary" violence has got to stop on all sides. On one side we have wanton destruction of property and businesses, on the other storming the Capitol building while acting out a moronic con man's fantasies?  If you support one you cannot support the other (and vice versa) without being a flaming hypocrite and providing the opposite side justification for what they're doing.

I've seen a lot of people on the far right claiming "antifa" was infiltrating today's festivities and were the real culprits (it's already been condemned and debunked by one of the biggest antifa scaremongers around, BTW), just as people on the far left claim "white supremacists" are actually responsible for violence and destruction for which far left groups proudly take credit (some less than 5 minutes from my home and in two instances, my wife's offices). Doing that just emboldens the other side and is to blame for what happened today. You're not revolutionaries or freedom fighters, on par with the troops in WW2 or the American Revolutionaries, you're idiots, terrorists, seditionists, and criminals.

As the great troubadour Dave Hause (my last pre-COVID concert) wrote and sang: "Let's be saboteurs. Take 'em down from the inside."

Both sides. 🙄🙄🙄

[Jockey]

Apparently, Michigan was a dry run in more ways than one.   Storming the capitol.  And there is now reporting there were plans to kidnap legislators and hold trials, just like that group was arrested for during the autumn here in Michigan.   Woo-hoo.  Michigan ahead of the curve!

Maybe the Lions are ahead of the curve. Lull everyone asleep for 40 years and then pounce.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Both sides. 🙄🙄🙄

You claim there are no bad actors on the far left? 

Bad people on both sides.

[ATL MU Warrior]

What on earth could he possibly have done? He does not have authority over the Capitol Police, the DC metro police department or the National Guard. He does not even have the ability to force a vote on a Senate resolution. Any specific ideas, or just general criticism?

I am not trying to paint Sasse as some sort of hero, but at least he has been trying to say the right things.

My criticism wasn't about today. And I understand what you are saying, but talk is cheap.

This explains my feelings quite well:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/10/16/sad-case-ben-sasse/

I just listened to him speak on CNN. He's obviously intelligent, a great speaker and he effectively portrays himself in a very down home small town American kind of way, because that is genuinely what he is. He is appealing, but he's also disappointing. Does that make sense?

[Warriors4ever]

Reports say that Trump and Giuliani continue to call senators asking them to object.

[GooooMarquette]

I've seen a few retired generals (Honore and others) interviewed in the news tonight, and they are absolutely excoriating the Capitol Police. As one put it, they "allowed protestors to breach the perimeter of a critical American asset." Honore in particular sounded absolutely furious with them.

[naginiF]

You claim there are no bad actors on the far left? 

Bad people on both sides.

There absolutely are bad actors on the FAR left. But those are condemned by the the other 95% of the left and all of the right, the right has 20% blind cultist conspiracy followers that are actively spurred on by the POSOTUS, Fox media, and high ranking members of the GOP. HUGE difference

[TSmith34, Inc.]

You claim there are no bad actors on the far left? 

Bad people on both sides.

False equivalency. Unsurprising.

[GooooMarquette]

My criticism wasn't about today. And I understand what you are saying, but talk is cheap.

This explains my feelings quite well:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/10/16/sad-case-ben-sasse/

I just listened to him speak on CNN. He's obviously intelligent, a great speaker and he effectively portrays himself in a very down home small town American kind of way, because that is genuinely what he is. He is appealing, but he's also disappointing. Does that make sense?

I totally get that, and I didn't mean to imply that he is a great Senator. My point was simply to give him credit for his very aggresively worded statement. If all the other Republican lawmakers did the same, it would show a solidarity we desperately need.

[Galway Eagle]

He occasionally disagrees with Trump, and sometimes he'll say so via social media. How courageous! 

He's a smart dude (I have said this before but I grew up in the same town and he was a grade behind me in school) but he is nothing but a coward when it comes to Trump.

Interesting take. My fiancé's family's from Crofton (two towns away) and they hate him for being too left which usually gives someone a thumbs up in my book. I'll read the link you posted about him.

[Jockey]

I've seen a few retired generals (Honore and others) interviewed in the news tonight, and they are absolutely excoriating the Capitol Police. As one put it, they "allowed protestors to breach the perimeter of a critical American asset." Honore in particular sounded absolutely furious with them.

They opened the gates to let them in. I'll try to find the video. I think I saw it on DailyKos.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Aaaaannnnnddddd...Hawley sticks with his objections to PA.