Projo nojo

[panda]

For guys like you.

You're going to lose a lot of people trying to compare college basketball in the 60's and 70's to present day.

[Pakuni]

Is it wrong for us to have a winning program like the Green Bay Packers who are good every year. We don't want to be like the Brewers or Bears that are doomed to mediocrity. We spend the second most money of all college basketball. Wtny can't we be a consistently strong program?

If you think Marquette spends the second most money in all of college basketball, you're delusional.

[vogue65]

You're going to lose a lot of people trying to compare college basketball in the 60's and 70's to present day.

Not my point.
I'm talking about myths, and delusions.
Basically the main differences between then and now is technology.
Jet travel, cable t.v., conditioning, rules, arena size, larger staff, analytics, expanded AAU, NBA, expanded division 1 basketball, larger tournament, higher prices, come to mind off the top of my flat head.
I'm sure there are many more.
I think we are talking about building organizations, staffing, culture, sustainability, leadership, planning, stratigic thinking, lessons learned, and corrective actions.
My other point is that Marquette has come a long way.  The quick fix with a new saviour is no way to build a so-called program.

[panda]

Not my point.
I'm talking about myths, and delusions.
Basically the main differences between then and now is technology.
Jet travel, cable t.v., conditioning, rules, arena size, larger staff, analytics, expanded AAU, NBA, expanded division 1 basketball, larger tournament, higher prices, come to mind off the top of my flat head.
I'm sure there are many more.
I think we are talking about building organizations, staffing, culture, sustainability, leadership, planning, stratigic thinking, lessons learned, and corrective actions.
My other point is that Marquette has come a long way.  The quick fix with a new saviour is no way to build a so-called program.

I think your posts are wildly amusing. They make almost no sense but are hilarious.

From what I gathered, you're trying to relate coaching basketball to working in the private sector. What company would keep an employee in a results position when he constantly fails to reach attainable metrics?

All while other, newer employees have met or surpassed those metrics?

[muwarrior69]

Not my point.
I'm talking about myths, and delusions.
Basically the main differences between then and now is technology.
Jet travel, cable t.v., conditioning, rules, arena size, larger staff, analytics, expanded AAU, NBA, expanded division 1 basketball, larger tournament, higher prices, come to mind off the top of my flat head.
I'm sure there are many more.
I think we are talking about building organizations, staffing, culture, sustainability, leadership, planning, stratigic thinking, lessons learned, and corrective actions.
My other point is that Marquette has come a long way.  The quick fix with a new saviour is no way to build a so-called program.

My sophomore year (66-67) the administration wouldn't let keep my horse on campus so I had to take the wagon train from New Jersey to Wisconsin every year thereafter.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

From what I gathered, you're trying to relate coaching basketball to working in the private sector. What company would keep an employee in a results position when he constantly fails to reach attainable metrics?

All while other, newer employees have met or surpassed those metrics?

Wojo has met his attainable metrics every year until last year. That's why he's on thinner ice this year.

I don't know what other newer employees you are referring to but we've done this exercise before where we've compared Wojo's results to the other coaches MU could have reasonably hired instead of him. Wojo has outperformed them all with the possible exception of Mike White at Florida, and even his results have been underwhelming at times. Now, that doesn't mean that if we hired one of the others that they wouldn't have had better results with our program, that's impossible to know. But with the information we do have, there was no slam dunk hire that we missed that year.

Wojo has been good. Not great. Which kind of sucks as a fan.

[panda]

The standard at Marquette during Crean and buzz was never this low.

When there were down seasons, the program quickly rebounded within a year or two. We had an identity within the program. We consistently put players in the nba. We earned high seeds in the tournament. We overachieved when expectations were lower.

We're sticking with a guy who has proven unable to do any of the above because he's barely reaching the lowered expectations.

[tower912]

But the BOT has a much broader set of metrics, post Buzz.

[panda]

But the BOT has a much broader set of metrics, post Buzz.

I do wonder how much longer those broader set of metrics last.

[tower912]

He scored big points getting out in front supporting his players last spring.   He is navigating through COVID.   His players are high character.   If he averages 19-20 wins a year, as he has since the first year, and continues to run a clean, high character program and represent the university well...


Indefinitely.

[MU82]

Fun thread.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The standard at Marquette during Crean and buzz was never this low.

No, the standard was the same, possibly lower for Crean. If Crean and Buzz accomplished on the court what Wojo did they would not have been fired. They just exceeded expectations, both are better coaches than Wojo at this point.

When there were down seasons, the program quickly rebounded within a year or two.

We've had two down seasons under Wojo. One was due to the roster he inherited and he had us in the tournament within 2 seasons. The second he immediately had us back in the tournament the following season with a 5-seed. So Wojo has met your standard.

We consistently put players in the nba.

This is for sure an area Crean and Buzz have Wojo beat in. It is also not on any list of attainable measurements that Wojo is being judged on.

We earned high seeds in the tournament.

Crean: NIT, Nothing, 5 seed, 3 seed, NIT, NIT, 7 seed, 8 seed, 6 seed
Buzz: 6 seed, 6 seed, 11 seed, 3 seed, 3 seed, Nothing

It depends on your definition of high seed but I think you might be misremembering how good we were. Don't get me wrong, those were very good years, I enjoyed them immensely. But those that think we were on the verge of becoming an elite program are fooling themselves.

We overachieved when expectations were lower.

I don't really have a way to measure this but my recollection is that this isn't as true as your making it out to be. I remember feeling like we overachieved in Crean's third year and the first year of the three amigos. I also remember feeling like we overachieved in Lazar's senior year (Buzz year 2). Otherwise, I feel like we pretty much played to expectation...until Buzz' last year where we were expected to win the BEast and ended up missing the NIT.

The one attainable metric where Wojo has failed is winning in March. He's had two opportunities and had third taken from him. Hopefully he gets that monkey off his back this season.

[panda]

He scored big points getting out in front supporting his players last spring.   He is navigating through COVID.   His players are high character.   If he averages 19-20 wins a year, as he has since the first year, and continues to run a clean, high character program and represent the university well...


Indefinitely.

The majority of coaches in the country can put all of that on their resume. Nothing unique to him.

[tower912]

Your point?   How many coaches are unique?   Only the legends.

[We R Final Four]

He scored big points getting out in front supporting his players last spring.   He is navigating through COVID.   His players are high character.   If he averages 19-20 wins a year, as he has since the first year, and continues to run a clean, high character program and represent the university well...


Indefinitely.

If the season ticket holders grow tired of the same product and on court issues leading to middle of the conference results, and decide it is no longer must see tv(which it isn't for a lot of us) I believe the BOT will take notice. That rent ain't cheap!.....even with 19-11 seasons year after year.

[panda]

Your point?   How many coaches are unique?   Only the legends.

Why point to those facts as a feather in his cap when 80-90% of his colleagues are doing the same thing?

[wadesworld]

Your point?   How many coaches are unique?   Only the legends.

Stu.

[We R Final Four]

Wojo.
1. He navigated through covid.

[panda]

No, the standard was the same, possibly lower for Crean. If Crean and Buzz accomplished on the court what Wojo did they would not have been fired. They just exceeded expectations, both are better coaches than Wojo at this point.

We've had two down seasons under Wojo. One was due to the roster he inherited and he had us in the tournament within 2 seasons. The second he immediately had us back in the tournament the following season with a 5-seed. So Wojo has met your standard.

This is for sure an area Crean and Buzz have Wojo beat in. It is also not on any list of attainable measurements that Wojo is being judged on.

Crean: NIT, Nothing, 5 seed, 3 seed, NIT, NIT, 7 seed, 8 seed, 6 seed
Buzz: 6 seed, 6 seed, 11 seed, 3 seed, 3 seed, Nothing

It depends on your definition of high seed but I think you might be misremembering how good we were. Don't get me wrong, those were very good years, I enjoyed them immensely. But those that think we were on the verge of becoming an elite program are fooling themselves.

I don't really have a way to measure this but my recollection is that this isn't as true as your making it out to be. I remember feeling like we overachieved in Crean's third year and the first year of the three amigos. I also remember feeling like we overachieved in Lazar's senior year (Buzz year 2). Otherwise, I feel like we pretty much played to expectation...until Buzz' last year where we were expected to win the BEast and ended up missing the NIT.

The one attainable metric where Wojo has failed is winning in March. He's had two opportunities and had third taken from him. Hopefully he gets that monkey off his back this season.

Wojo has earned a 6 seed once, with his best team, and the team blew up due to serious chemistry issues.

Otherwise it's been .500 records in conference and 9/10 seeds in the years he's made the tournament.

There's really no comparison. Crean won double digit games in the old BE several times, while also going to a final four. Buzz may have underachieved a couple of times during the season and then made up for it with runs in the tournament.

Aside from a stretch early to mid 2019 season, he's done nothing in the regular season or in the post season to differentiate himself or earn himself the right to down seasons.

[tower912]

We can all go through point by point and enumerate Wojo's failings. And we do, ad infinitum.  Fanboard.   But Fanboard opinions are just that.   The BOT wanted the anti-Buzz.   They got him.  Fanboards complain, but Wojo averaged 20 wins a year, years 2-6.   His guys make positive news off the court.   

Unless there is a scandal, he is more likely to leave than be fired for, IMO, at least another two years.   

And when he leaves/is fired, my money is on Wardle.

[panda]

We can all go through point by point and enumerate Wojo's failings. And we do, ad infinitum.  Fanboard.   But Fanboard opinions are just that.   The BOT wanted the anti-Buzz.   They got him.  Fanboards complain, but Wojo averaged 20 wins a year, years 2-6.   His guys make positive news off the court.   

Unless there is a scandal, he is more likely to leave than be fired for, IMO, at least another two years.   

And when he leaves/is fired, my money is on Wardle.

Wardle or Otzelberger

[#UnleashSean]

Wojo.
1. He navigated through covid.

When a coaches greatest accomplishments all have nothing to do with winning basketball games you know you have a great guy, but a bad coach.

[wadesworld]

Wardle or Otzelberger

UNLV is 1-4 including a 13 point loss to Montana State. Their only win is over Kansas State, who lost to a terrible D2 school that didn't have their top 2 coaches doe the game.

But yeah. Let's get him!

[panda]

UNLV is 1-4 including a 13 point loss to Montana State. Their only win is over Kansas State, who lost to a terrible D2 school that didn't have their top 2 coaches doe the game.

But yeah. Let's get him!

8-8 his first season at SDSU followed by 13-1 and 14-2 records in conference. He went 12-6 in conference last season.

Big time assistant at Iowa State before taking SDSU job. Milwaukee guy with strong ties Midwest ties.

But yea. Let's look at a five game stretch this season!

He's a strong candidate.

[wadesworld]

8-8 his first season at SDSU followed by 13-1 and 14-2 records in conference. He went 12-6 in conference last season.

Big time assistant at Iowa State before taking SDSU job. Milwaukee guy with strong ties Midwest ties.

But yea. Let's look at a five game stretch this season!

He's a strong candidate.

Congrats to him for inheriting the best player that will ever play in that program's history.