Projo nojo

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

I'm jumping in just to offer one point and then leaving because we have way too many of these threads. Even if you're hard core nojo (and that's fine with me), please do not boo our head coach when fan attendance resumes. Sit on your hands, go to the washroom, gnash your teeth but do it in silence. Write a letter, send an email, cancel your season tickets, whatever. Booing our head coach when introduced is a bad look for prospective recruits and the athletic department staff, period. With that...

[brewcity77]

please do not boo our head coach when fan attendance resumes. Sit on your hands, go to the washroom, gnash your teeth but do it in silence. Write a letter, send an email, cancel your season tickets, whatever. Booing our head coach when introduced is a bad look for prospective recruits and the athletic department staff, period. With that...

I've definitely shifted to the Nojo camp, but agree completely. There's nothing productive down that road.

[5DollarPitcher]

I'm jumping in just to offer one point and then leaving because we have way too many of these threads. Even if you're hard core nojo (and that's fine with me), please do not boo our head coach when fan attendance resumes. Sit on your hands, go to the washroom, gnash your teeth but do it in silence. Write a letter, send an email, cancel your season tickets, whatever. Booing our head coach when introduced is a bad look for prospective recruits and the athletic department staff, period. With that...

The athletic department staff that keeps him employed deserves to be booed at the same volume. As for recruits - I don't care. I've been told by Projos that we are losing any and every recruit we had signed or interested if we fire Wojo so why would I care if my booing affects the attitude of his recruits?

He's tarnished the once-revered basketball reputation of my alma mater while collecting millions to do it. I'll keep booing him, thanks. Booing as a form of demonstration is a lot more noticeable (and triggering as your post makes clear) than a letter that probably won't even make it to the appropriate individual's inbox. You can call me a bad fan if that's your prerogative, I don't mind.

[wadesworld]

The athletic department staff that keeps him employed deserves to be booed at the same volume. As for recruits - I don't care. I've been told by Projos that we are losing any and every recruit we had signed or interested if we fire Wojo so why would I care if my booing affects the attitude of his recruits?

He's tarnished the once-revered basketball reputation of my alma mater while collecting millions to do it. I'll keep booing him, thanks. Booing as a form of demonstration is a lot more noticeable (and triggering as your post makes clear) than a letter that probably won't even make it to the appropriate individual's inbox. You can call me a bad fan if that's your prerogative, I don't mind.

Lol

[Billy Hoyle]

The athletic department staff that keeps him employed deserves to be booed at the same volume. As for recruits - I don't care. I've been told by Projos that we are losing any and every recruit we had signed or interested if we fire Wojo so why would I care if my booing affects the attitude of his recruits?

He's tarnished the once-revered basketball reputation of my alma mater while collecting millions to do it. I'll keep booing him, thanks. Booing as a form of demonstration is a lot more noticeable (and triggering as your post makes clear) than a letter that probably won't even make it to the appropriate individual's inbox. You can call me a bad fan if that's your prerogative, I don't mind.

The last coach had us in the national media for alleged rape and coverups, as well as half the team getting suspended for a nightclub fight. THAT is tarnishing the program, not what Wojo has done.

Oh, BTW, the MU program's reputation hadn't been "revered" as an elite program since the late 70's. Did you forget about the10 year gap in NCAA tournaments from 1982 to 1993?

[Stretchdeltsig]

Is it wrong for us to have a winning program like the Green Bay Packers who are good every year. We don't want to be like the Brewers or Bears that are doomed to mediocrity. We spend the second most money of all college basketball. Wtny can't we be a consistently strong program?

[5DollarPitcher]

The last coach had us in the national media for alleged rape and coverups, as well as half the team getting suspended for a nightclub fight. THAT is tarnishing the program, not what Wojo has done.

Oh, BTW, the MU program's reputation hadn't been "revered" as an elite program since the late 70's. Did you forget about the10 year gap in NCAA tournaments from 1982 to 1993?

Yes - at least it can be debated that Wojo's basketball misfortunes are less than those of our darkest history 30-40 years ago! That's totally a point in the Projo column! Listen to yourself.

If you want to say "hey at least Wojo doesn't have scandals" - you can. But you're implying a false choice: either we win an NCAA tournament games OR the program stays out of the unsavory pages in the national media. We can do both. Plenty of programs do both. Wojo does not and cannot do both. I can see why you're so upset, though.

[brewcity77]

Is it wrong for us to have a winning program like the Green Bay Packers who are good every year. We don't want to be like the Brewers or Bears that are doomed to mediocrity. We spend the second most money of all college basketball. Wtny can't we be a consistently strong program?

That's an out-of-date figure, but it was always somewhat deceptive. We spent the second-most on basketball, but that's because many of the football schools put major expenditures such as new training or weight room facilities under the football budget. Here are more updated numbers from 2018 that have us 8th in expenditures, but I find it hard to believe Marquette is really putting more dollars toward their basketball program than UNC, Kansas, Michigan State, or many other big states schools. It's just that those basketball programs are able to benefit from things that fall under the football budget.

[GooooMarquette]

Is it wrong for us to have a winning program like the Green Bay Packers who are good every year. We don't want to be like the Brewers or Bears that are doomed to mediocrity. We spend the second most money of all college basketball. Wtny can't we be a consistently strong program?

You must not remember the 70s...or the 80s...or the first half of the 90s....

[Billy Hoyle]

Yes - at least it can be debated that Wojo's basketball misfortunes are less than those of our darkest history 30-40 years ago! That's totally a point in the Projo column! Listen to yourself.

If you want to say "hey at least Wojo doesn't have scandals" - you can. But you're implying a false choice: either we win an NCAA tournament games OR the program stays out of the unsavory pages in the national media. We can do both. Plenty of programs do both. Wojo does not and cannot do both. I can see why you're so upset, though.

I'm actually not Projo." I'm not "Nojo" either, though I lean to that side.  But, you are acting as if we're DePaul, or St. John's, or current Georgetown, which we're not. You also act as if our program is a blue blood. Once Al retired and Miami of Ohio beat us in 1978 our program would never see the success of the 70's. College basketball changed.

Of course I want to be on Nova's level, but your claim that Wojo is responsible for our program not being "revered" anymore ignores reality and history. You must also be a Michigan football fan.

[5DollarPitcher]

I'm actually not Projo." I'm not "Nojo" either, though I lean to that side.  But, you are acting as if we're DePaul, or St. John's, or current Georgetown, which we're not. You also act as if our program is a blue blood. Once Al retired and Miami of Ohio beat us in 1978 our program would never see the success of the 70's. College basketball changed.

Of course I want to be on Nova's level, but your claim that Wojo is responsible for our program not being "revered" anymore ignores reality and history. You must also be a Michigan football fan.

You know there's levels of success between Villanova and DePaul right? Levels that include NCAA tournament runs, Big East tournament runs, and occasional conference titles while not winning 2 national championships and being a perennial top 5 team like Villanova right? You used the word blue blood, not me.

A program that goes to an Elite Eight, multiple Sweet Sixteens, and a Final Four in a ten-or-so year span is absolutely "revered" in the basketball world. If you disagree and you'd like to use a different word/words - "highly respected", "well recognized", "successful" - you're free to do that, but I didn't come here to flip through the Thesaurus with you.

In the seven years we've suffered through Wojo there hasn't even been one measly first round win. We've even, unfortunately, gotten to the point where one measly first round win can't offset what's been done to the program. No we aren't Georgetown, DePaul, or St John - but you just named the only three teams in the Big East you can actually say we're better than without having a decent debate.  DePaul then Georgetown then St. John then maybe Marquette - are you proud of this? And no one here is setting baseline expectations at the Nova program. To imply that is to create a disingenuous strawman and shows that you don't even truly know what you're arguing against.

[Silent Verbal]

You know there's levels of success between Villanova and DePaul right? Levels that include NCAA tournament runs, Big East tournament runs, and occasional conference titles while not winning 2 national championships and being a perennial top 5 team like Villanova right? You used the word blue blood, not me.

A program that goes to an Elite Eight, multiple Sweet Sixteens, and a Final Four in a ten-or-so year span is absolutely "revered" in the basketball world. If you disagree and you'd like to use a different word/words - "highly respected", "well recognized", "successful" - you're free to do that, but I didn't come here to flip through the Thesaurus with you.

In the seven years we've suffered through Wojo there hasn't even been one measly first round win. We've even, unfortunately, gotten to the point where one measly first round win can't offset what's been done to the program. No we aren't Georgetown, DePaul, or St John - but you just named the only three teams in the Big East you can actually say we're better than without having a decent debate.  DePaul then Georgetown then St. John then maybe Marquette - are you proud of this? And no one here is setting baseline expectations at the Nova program. To imply that is to create a disingenuous strawman and shows that you don't even truly know what you're arguing against.

Yeah, at this point, I think everybody's realistic enough to know that we'll never again achieve the heights of the 70s.  But Crean/Buzz level success?  That's absolutely attainable, and should be the standard for the program.  For some reason, Wojo has never been held to that standard.

In six seasons under Buzz, we finished in the AP Top 25 three times.  Under Crean, it was four times in nine seasons.  Revered, highly respected, well recognized, use whatever term you want.  Those guys had us in the Top 25 to end the year 50% of the time.  That's about right for a program like Marquette.  And we have *never* done it under Wojo.

[vogue65]

The last coach had us in the national media for alleged rape and coverups, as well as half the team getting suspended for a nightclub fight. THAT is tarnishing the program, not what Wojo has done.

Oh, BTW, the MU program's reputation hadn't been "revered" as an elite program since the late 70's. Did you forget about the10 year gap in NCAA tournaments from 1982 to 1993?

I'm not so sure it was "revered" even then, and BTW, I was there, here.  Al was revered, not "the so-called" program.

[vogue65]

Is it wrong for us to have a winning program like the Green Bay Packers who are good every year. We don't want to be like the Brewers or Bears that are doomed to mediocrity. We spend the second most money of all college basketball. Wtny can't we be a consistently strong program?

Because patience is not our strong suit.  It takes time, a lot of time, to build a program.  After Vince it took the Pac a long time to get back.

[vogue65]

Yeah, at this point, I think everybody's realistic enough to know that we'll never again achieve the heights of the 70s.  But Crean/Buzz level success?  That's absolutely attainable, and should be the standard for the program.  For some reason, Wojo has never been held to that standard.

In six seasons under Buzz, we finished in the AP Top 25 three times.  Under Crean, it was four times in nine seasons.  Revered, highly respected, well recognized, use whatever term you want.  Those guys had us in the Top 25 to end the year 50% of the time.  That's about right for a program like Marquette.  And we have *never* done it under Wojo.

HELP!

I need a stats guy.
How many years did it take Al McGuire to reach the top?
How many years did the so-called program remain at the top?
How many decades did it take to get back to the top?
How long did we stay at the top this time?
Please, just the facts mam., just the facts.
Enough bullshit history.

[#UnleashSean]

HELP!

I need a stats guy.
How many years did it take Al McGuire to reach the top?
How many years did the so-called program remain at the top?
How many decades did it take to get back to the top?
How long did we stay at the top this time?
Please, just the facts mam., just the facts.
Enough bullcrap history.

You're going off the deep end this time eh?

[panda]

HELP!

I need a stats guy.
How many years did it take Al McGuire to reach the top?
How many years did the so-called program remain at the top?
How many decades did it take to get back to the top?
How long did we stay at the top this time?
Please, just the facts mam., just the facts.
Enough bullcrap history.

I think the "stats guy" you're after is named google.

[Silent Verbal]

Because patience is not our strong suit.  It takes time, a lot of time, to build a program.  After Vince it took the Pac a long time to get back.

Umm, what?  In 1991, the Packers hired Ron Wolf as GM.  By 1993, they were going to the playoffs every single year.

So, it took 2 years, once competent leadership was put in place.

[GooooMarquette]

Umm, what?  In 1991, the Packers hired Ron Wolf as GM.  By 1993, they were going to the playoffs every single year.

So, it took 2 years, once competent leadership was put in place.

And it only took them 25 years to figure out how to find competent leadership....

[vogue65]

And it only took them 25 years to figure out how to find competent leadership....

Not to mention the draft, sometimes you have to be a loser before you can become a winner.

[vogue65]

I think the "stats guy" you're after is named google.

Not when you lived it.
The stats guy is only needed for the argumentative guys who are detail focused.  You know, the lawyer types or engineers. 
I use google for something I don't know.
History lived is different from history studied.

[vogue65]

You're going off the deep end this time eh?

Yes, in a way I am.
Nothing new there.
Otherwise we keep going around in circles.
Lots of half baked opinion, little fact.
Nothing wrong with opinions, but some facts would help with making informed opinion.
The bighest myth around here is that Al McGuire hit the ground running at Marquette and was a winner from the get go.
Second myth is that he created a program that has lasted 50 years.
The fact is that he retired from coaching because he could no longer recruit the players he needed.  In otherwords, no program.
Many people around here think WOJO is killing our program when in fact he is only starting a sustainable prpgram.  Granted with a few false starts.
Now that he learned his lesson about Wiscon basketball is no time to pull the rug.
When I went to games in Milwaukee we played SLU, Detroit, Loyola, and South Dakota.
But for the Big East we would still be playing in the G or B or D  league.

[vogue65]

Yeah, at this point, I think everybody's realistic enough to know that we'll never again achieve the heights of the 70s.  But Crean/Buzz level success?  That's absolutely attainable, and should be the standard for the program.  For some reason, Wojo has never been held to that standard.

In six seasons under Buzz, we finished in the AP Top 25 three times.  Under Crean, it was four times in nine seasons.  Revered, highly respected, well recognized, use whatever term you want.  Those guys had us in the Top 25 to end the year 50% of the time.  That's about right for a program like Marquette.  And we have *never* done it under Wojo.

I respectfully disagree, we can reach that level, however it will take time.
Rome wasn't built in a day.  Italy wasn't built in a day.
I would love to see the WOJO plan, sales pitch.  His power point must be something.

If WOJO should have been let go it was after he wasted his time recruiting in Wisconsin.  Buzz made the same mistake before he settled on Texas.  Must be the warter or the BOT.

What happened to the UCLA program after coach Wooden?
What will happen to the Duke program after coach K?
What happened to the Georgetown or St. John's programs?
What will happen to Vilanova after Jay Wright?

[panda]

Not when you lived it.
The stats guy is only needed for the argumentative guys who are detail focused.  You know, the lawyer types or engineers. 
I use google for something I don't know.
History lived is different from history studied.

So if you lived it,  why are you asking for stats guy?

[vogue65]

So if you lived it,  why are you asking for stats guy?

For guys like you.