What to do with Wojo?

[vogue65]

I was actually surprised by the number of football coaches that were fired this year.  I thought, given the pandemic, most schools would be looking to tightening the spending and look to avoid any unnecessary costs (i.e. coaching buyouts).  There have been seven official firings thus far (there were nine last year).  There were 16 basketball firings in the Spring, even during a pandemic, which was also higher than I would have imagined.

Interesting information, thank you.
Not to get political, but, the age of high turnover, management by firing has passed.
Normality, stability, investing in development has returned and it will be obvious in sports and corporations. 
Behaviours follow leadership.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This post sort of epitomizes the endless loop of mediocrity we’ve been in under wojo. Always just “one more year” away from wojo filling in the missing pieces around the core players. Player development is not always a linear process either. Take promising top 100 recruit Haanif Cheatham for example. Thought we had a good one there but unfortunately his best ball was played in his freshman year and he was completely lost by the time he left MU. To Wojos credit though, he does have several players who have developed nicely (Anim, John, etc).

Isn’t the talk of “extending” wojo kind of irrelevant also? I would think MU is smart enough to always “extend” Wojos contract so that it won’t make for a competitive disadvantage on the recruiting front. Nothing more, nothing less.

Would agree with Brewcity on the lower buyout, but that seems like the obvious thing to do and the competence of the people making that decision should be seriously questioned if that is not the case.

Im not convinced we're in a loop of mediocrity.  Wojo has had two recruiting cycles.  His second was better than his first.  Not by as much as I wanted or expected,  but unquestionably better.  If this cycle is better than the second one,  it will have taken longer than I want but I'll be happy.

Also,  IIRC Haanif was better as a sophomore. He just had much better teammates around him so he had less opportunity.

[tower912]

Convince him to recruit more switchables.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

An extension with a much smaller buyout so his contract was basically a series of one-year deals. I'd be all for that extension.

I think that happens no matter what.  If he makes the tournament comfortably or has a run in march I think he gets a normal extension.

[dgies9156]

Several thoughts on this whole subject.

1) Here we go again -- Lose a few and we want Wojo sacked. We somehow think the magic bullet that will get us back to College basketball elite is out there just waiting to be called. Let's wait until the end of the year for this discussion and no I don't think the magic bullet is out there.

2) Expectations -- When the season started, most of us knew there would be games like UCLA, Okey State, Villanova, Xavier and Seton Hall. We were going to lose some we probably shouldn't lose and win some (Wisconsin and Creighton) we probably should not win. We're certainly on track for that. Villanova was one we all wanted to win but, realistically, was going to tough.
 
3) Firing -- Marquette WILL NOT fire Wojo at the end of this year. With a $45 million budget deficit and elimination of programs in the College of Arts and Sciences, they simply don't have the money to pay his buyout. Can you imagine the uproar among the faculty if Marquette must pay Wojo a cool couple of million for being terminated? It would not be pretty and would start us down the road toward becoming DePaul North. The damage to the basketball program for firing Wojo would rival anything Jean Lenti-Ponsetto ever did to men's basketball at DePaul.

4) Freshmen -- Folks, the core of our team (Carton, Garcia and Lewis) all are or effectively are freshmen. Defense comes slowly to freshmen (Michael Jordan being the exception). We already have seen some of the good that our freshmen can do as a team but defense is learned. For those of you who don't believe me, go dig up Dean Smith's autobiography, A Coach's Life, and read the section on Jordan. Hint: We don't have a Michael Jordan on this team. Perhaps a good thing will be we're going to have Garcia and Lewis for at least three years and Carton for at least two based on what I've seen so far.

5) Rotations -- I'm of the view, from my days watching the Redneck's teams, that a college basketball team has to be at least eight and likely 10 deep. The last three would be role players but you need to have those guys. We have a seven deep, maybe, stretching it, eight deep rotation. Fields and Oso are developmental projects that will be good in a few years. I'm a little disappointed in Oso so far, but that may be my expectations and not the coaches. I honestly believe we're running out of gas in the second half against teams that are deeper and maybe stronger than us.

6) Close but... -- We have been close a number of times. But... for Henry leaving a year earlier than expected. But for... Hausershima, we'd probably be in much better shape than we are. All of this, of course, is on Wojo and the problem is we all have long memories and high-powered expectations. The Hausers, Chetham, Henry, Markus, Garcia and Lewis all show Coach Wojo can recruit at a high level. The challenge is keeping these folks in the fold and, most importantly, developing them in a way that leads us to being a leader in the Big East.

Look, we have the makings of a good team for a couple of years. The challenge will be whether we can sustain high-level recruiting for the next couple of years so we have the balance that has escaped us. You have to ask with massive transfers whether firing Coach Wojo will also chase off the core of what could be a very good team?

We don't want NO Depauls in Milwaukee!!!!!

[Viper]

Several thoughts on this whole subject.

1) Here we go again -- Lose a few and we want Wojo sacked. We somehow think the magic bullet that will get us back to College basketball elite is out there just waiting to be called. Let's wait until the end of the year for this discussion and no I don't think the magic bullet is out there.

2) Expectations -- When the season started, most of us knew there would be games like UCLA, Okey State, Villanova, Xavier and Seton Hall. We were going to lose some we probably shouldn't lose and win some (Wisconsin and Creighton) we probably should not win. We're certainly on track for that. Villanova was one we all wanted to win but, realistically, was going to tough.
 
3) Firing -- Marquette WILL NOT fire Wojo at the end of this year. With a $45 million budget deficit and elimination of programs in the College of Arts and Sciences, they simply don't have the money to pay his buyout. Can you imagine the uproar among the faculty if Marquette must pay Wojo a cool couple of million for being terminated? It would not be pretty and would start us down the road toward becoming DePaul North. The damage to the basketball program for firing Wojo would rival anything Jean Lenti-Ponsetto ever did to men's basketball at DePaul.

4) Freshmen -- Folks, the core of our team (Carton, Garcia and Lewis) all are or effectively are freshmen. Defense comes slowly to freshmen (Michael Jordan being the exception). We already have seen some of the good that our freshmen can do as a team but defense is learned. For those of you who don't believe me, go dig up Dean Smith's autobiography, A Coach's Life, and read the section on Jordan. Hint: We don't have a Michael Jordan on this team. Perhaps a good thing will be we're going to have Garcia and Lewis for at least three years and Carton for at least two based on what I've seen so far.

5) Rotations -- I'm of the view, from my days watching the Redneck's teams, that a college basketball team has to be at least eight and likely 10 deep. The last three would be role players but you need to have those guys. We have a seven deep, maybe, stretching it, eight deep rotation. Fields and Oso are developmental projects that will be good in a few years. I'm a little disappointed in Oso so far, but that may be my expectations and not the coaches. I honestly believe we're running out of gas in the second half against teams that are deeper and maybe stronger than us.

6) Close but... -- We have been close a number of times. But... for Henry leaving a year earlier than expected. But for... Hausershima, we'd probably be in much better shape than we are. All of this, of course, is on Wojo and the problem is we all have long memories and high-powered expectations. The Hausers, Chetham, Henry, Markus, Garcia and Lewis all show Coach Wojo can recruit at a high level. The challenge is keeping these folks in the fold and, most importantly, developing them in a way that leads us to being a leader in the Big East.

Look, we have the makings of a good team for a couple of years. The challenge will be whether we can sustain high-level recruiting for the next couple of years so we have the balance that has escaped us. You have to ask with massive transfers whether firing Coach Wojo will also chase off the core of what could be a very good team?

We don't want NO Depauls in Milwaukee!!!!!

but now in year 7, nothing changes. Same mistakes game in game out. Same year-end results. It simply does not take this long to develop a program that is capable of a 1st rd ncaa tourney win.
Look at it this way... In the private sector, any of us produce Wojo-like results, we’d be toast.

[Billy Hoyle]

We have seen this before though.  What are the chances those 3 will be on the team next year? Or 2022-3?

That is a question we will have to ask ourselves a annually moving forward. With the year in residence being eliminated we’re entering free agency in college hoops and poaching is going to run rampant. Add in NIL and it’s going to become a bidding war to encourage transfers.

[BM1090]

Ask again after the season. I think we'll turn it around over the next 10 games. We'll be favored in 7 of the next 10 and 11 of the remaining 16.

[MU82]

In the private sector, any of us produce Wojo-like results, we’d be toast.

So your contention is that if your company is among the 350 largest in the nation, and it consistently performs in the top 50-75 of that group, its CEO would be "toast"? I'm not sure I agree with that.

Don't read the above as blind support of Wojo. I am quite disappointed with the coaching in several games in what I considered to be a show-me season.

But I underline "season" there. It's not a show-me 10 games. So I'm willing to wait and see what happens over these next 2-3 (hopefully 3 full) months.

Buzz was smart to bring in ex head coaches to help as assistants.  That was good.  Wojo should do the same.  Why not? 

He has brought in Rob Judson, who was a highly respected assistant at Illinois and then was head coach at Northern. Not sure what his role is exactly, and sure, could bring in more.

But most ex-head coaches who want to stay in the game and who were any good find head coaching jobs elsewhere.

I'm not convinced we're in a loop of mediocrity.  Wojo has had two recruiting cycles.  His second was better than his first.  Not by as much as I wanted or expected,  but unquestionably better.  If this cycle is better than the second one,  it will have taken longer than I want but I'll be happy.

Hmmm ... maybe. But it's Year 7, TAMU. Time to win bigger than we have. One 20-win season? Never winning more than one BET game in a season? Zero NCAA tournament wins, with blowout losses in his two games?

Can't MU wait one more year to consider an extension? Even after next season, he'll have 2 years remaining. That's not crazy-short. But if we do feel we need to extend after this season, I agree with others with the idea of a short extension with a lower buyout.

If he bristles at that, he can go elsewhere.

All of the above is predicated on my expectations that we get into the tourney as a 10 or 11 seed and then lose our first game. If something clicks and the team significantly outperforms those expectations, or if the wheels fall off and the car crashes, we're talking about very different considerations.

[Lennys Tap]

Im not convinced we're in a loop of mediocrity.  Wojo has had two recruiting cycles.  His second was better than his first.  Not by as much as I wanted or expected,  but unquestionably better.  If this cycle is better than the second one,  it will have taken longer than I want but I'll be happy.

Also,  IIRC Haanif was better as a sophomore. He just had much better teammates around him so he had less opportunity.

We have 4 players on our roster who were recruited in the three years prior to this one: Theo, Cain, Elliot and Symir. The 3 seniors have all shown nice development this year but would any of them (until this year) been solid rotation players (let alone starters) on an upper tier P6 team? Theo as a backup, maybe. The other two - no way. Symir would get nothing more than garbage minutes. There is potential among our younger players, but in a season when you return zero impact players and zero (or possibly one) guy who would start (as a senior only) on a solid P6 team you’re going to struggle. It’s not that we’re young. It’s that our experience is mediocre and what I hope proves to be our talent is inexperienced.

[Goose]

Lenny,

The upperclassman do not play any significant minutes at any top 20 program. I am happy they improved and wish them the best. Wojo has to fill in the pieces with far better basketball players. To me it is quite simple, better players or better coaching. I do think the three new guys can be players and are building blocks for the future, but he needs to add 3-4 basketball players for next season.

[MU82]

I thought we had a few folks with inside knowledge here. Not a single Scooper knows what Wojo's buyout is?

[pacearrow02]

Several thoughts on this whole subject.

1) Here we go again -- Lose a few and we want Wojo sacked. We somehow think the magic bullet that will get us back to College basketball elite is out there just waiting to be called. Let's wait until the end of the year for this discussion and no I don't think the magic bullet is out there.

2) Expectations -- When the season started, most of us knew there would be games like UCLA, Okey State, Villanova, Xavier and Seton Hall. We were going to lose some we probably shouldn't lose and win some (Wisconsin and Creighton) we probably should not win. We're certainly on track for that. Villanova was one we all wanted to win but, realistically, was going to tough.
 
3) Firing -- Marquette WILL NOT fire Wojo at the end of this year. With a $45 million budget deficit and elimination of programs in the College of Arts and Sciences, they simply don't have the money to pay his buyout. Can you imagine the uproar among the faculty if Marquette must pay Wojo a cool couple of million for being terminated? It would not be pretty and would start us down the road toward becoming DePaul North. The damage to the basketball program for firing Wojo would rival anything Jean Lenti-Ponsetto ever did to men's basketball at DePaul.

4) Freshmen -- Folks, the core of our team (Carton, Garcia and Lewis) all are or effectively are freshmen. Defense comes slowly to freshmen (Michael Jordan being the exception). We already have seen some of the good that our freshmen can do as a team but defense is learned. For those of you who don't believe me, go dig up Dean Smith's autobiography, A Coach's Life, and read the section on Jordan. Hint: We don't have a Michael Jordan on this team. Perhaps a good thing will be we're going to have Garcia and Lewis for at least three years and Carton for at least two based on what I've seen so far.

5) Rotations -- I'm of the view, from my days watching the Redneck's teams, that a college basketball team has to be at least eight and likely 10 deep. The last three would be role players but you need to have those guys. We have a seven deep, maybe, stretching it, eight deep rotation. Fields and Oso are developmental projects that will be good in a few years. I'm a little disappointed in Oso so far, but that may be my expectations and not the coaches. I honestly believe we're running out of gas in the second half against teams that are deeper and maybe stronger than us.

6) Close but... -- We have been close a number of times. But... for Henry leaving a year earlier than expected. But for... Hausershima, we'd probably be in much better shape than we are. All of this, of course, is on Wojo and the problem is we all have long memories and high-powered expectations. The Hausers, Chetham, Henry, Markus, Garcia and Lewis all show Coach Wojo can recruit at a high level. The challenge is keeping these folks in the fold and, most importantly, developing them in a way that leads us to being a leader in the Big East.

Look, we have the makings of a good team for a couple of years. The challenge will be whether we can sustain high-level recruiting for the next couple of years so we have the balance that has escaped us. You have to ask with massive transfers whether firing Coach Wojo will also chase off the core of what could be a very good team?

We don't want NO Depauls in Milwaukee!!!!!

Great analysis.  I would throw in the unexpected departure of Bailey threw a wrench in things this year.  Like you said it’s on Wojo to not just get the pieces but keep the pieces in place.  To think this years starting squad could have been:

PG: Carton
SG: Koby
SF: J. Hauser
PF: Bailey
C: Theo

With Cain, Lewis, Garcia, Sy, and Elliot coming off the pine.  That’s the 10 deep rotational talent we need to get and keep together. 

[The Big East]

The Best scenario for all involved is for Wojo to put up another season this year roughly similar to years past. That should be good enough to get him an offer from a Power 5 football school. I think Wojo would leap at any reasonable offer especially  something out West where his wife is from.

We then promote Coach Killings to Head Coach, he will be in a strong position to retain the young players and recruits.

I thought this scenario would have played out last year( with Stan taking over), but Covid hit.

It is a win win win scenario. Wojo moves to a new program which will give him a long leash. Our new youthful coach has a team full of kids he played a major role in recruiting. The University is net ahead financially as they would get some proceeds for Wojo's buyout.

The key to all of this is that Wojo needs to put up a winning season.

[MU82]

Great analysis.  I would throw in the unexpected departure of Bailey threw a wrench in things this year.  Like you said it’s on Wojo to not just get the pieces but keep the pieces in place.  To think this years starting squad could have been:

PG: Carton
SG: Koby
SF: J. Hauser
PF: Bailey
C: Theo

With Cain, Lewis, Garcia, Sy, and Elliot coming off the pine.  That’s the 10 deep rotational talent we need to get and keep together.

IIRC, many who are into recruiting said Garcia wouldn't have gone to MU had Baby Hauser been here.

The Best scenario for all involved is for Wojo to put up another season this year roughly similar to years past. That should be good enough to get him an offer from a Power 5 football school. I think Wojo would leap at any reasonable offer especially  something out West where his wife is from.

We then promote Coach Killings to Head Coach, he will be in a strong position to retain the young players and recruits.

I thought this scenario would have played out last year( with Stan taking over), but Covid hit.

It is a win win win scenario. Wojo moves to a new program which will give him a long leash. Our new youthful coach has a team full of kids he played a major role in recruiting. The University is net ahead financially as they would get some proceeds for Wojo's buyout.

The key to all of this is that Wojo needs to put up a winning season.

It's only a "win win win scenario" if Killings can coach. Maybe he can, maybe he can't. I don't know, neither do you. What we do know is that his resume is even thinner than Wojo's was.

[pacearrow02]

IIRC, many who are into recruiting said Garcia wouldn't have gone to MU had Baby Hauser been here.

It's only a "win win win scenario" if Killings can coach. Maybe he can, maybe he can't. I don't know, neither do you. What we do know is that his resume is even thinner than Wojo's was.

Ya that’s a good point.

[bilsu]

The way for MU to be really good is to get old. By that I mean not depending on newcomers so much. One of Wojo's problems has been to many transfers out, which keeps the team from getting old. I am not in favor of firing Wojo now, but would be if our good young players elected to transfer.

I do believe the free agency in transfers is going to hurt MU more than it will help.

[Silent Verbal]

The Best scenario for all involved is for Wojo to put up another season this year roughly similar to years past. That should be good enough to get him an offer from a Power 5 football school. I think Wojo would leap at any reasonable offer especially  something out West where his wife is from.

We then promote Coach Killings to Head Coach, he will be in a strong position to retain the young players and recruits.

I thought this scenario would have played out last year( with Stan taking over), but Covid hit.

It is a win win win scenario. Wojo moves to a new program which will give him a long leash. Our new youthful coach has a team full of kids he played a major role in recruiting. The University is net ahead financially as they would get some proceeds for Wojo's buyout.

The key to all of this is that Wojo needs to put up a winning season.

Unless he has a good run in the Tournament this year and strings together a couple consecutive good seasons, I think the ship has sailed on a P6 school poaching Wojo.  The sample size of mediocrity is just too large at this point.

[JWags85]

He has brought in Rob Judson, who was a highly respected assistant at Illinois and then was head coach at Northern. Not sure what his role is exactly, and sure, could bring in more.

But most ex-head coaches who want to stay in the game and who were any good find head coaching jobs elsewhere.

With all due respect, this is kind of the problem for me. Judson was a respected assistant...20 years ago. And then an objectively bad HC.  His career since leaving U of I was so mediocre that he was a Director of Ops 30 years into his career.  Not exactly Wojo leveraging a Duke/USA basketball network to get someone with great experience and needed help on his bench.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Wojo needs a 1 year extension for recruiting purposes only.  Should give him a $0 buyout, with the condition of earn it if you want to stay.

Don't like it?  Let the door hit ya in the ass on the way out.

[dgies9156]

but now in year 7, nothing changes. Same mistakes game in game out. Same year-end results. It simply does not take this long to develop a program that is capable of a 1st rd ncaa tourney win.
Look at it this way... In the private sector, any of us produce Wojo-like results, we’d be toast.

Brother Marq:

You have to recognize the element of sunk cost. You have to look at the "here and now" and consider where we are and the direction we're heading, not where we have been. I agree with Brother Goose, in part, that we've got the core of a very good team. If we hold it together and recruit atop it, w3e will be dynamite.

Brother Goose is generally right about past talent and about the older members of our team. My view is the exception would be Koby McEwen, who I think he's great now that he is freed from the Markus-dominated offense. But we have to build and hope Oso and Lewis are the real things.

I'll say it again: In these financially trying times, chasing our coach off would be the death-knell of college basketball at Marquette. If Marquette had to pay out his severance, the riot among faculty members would be earth-shattering. The university, already cheap because of the baby bust that's coming, would retreat into the same college basketball cheapness cocoon they did in the 1980s. The issue of basketball's role on campus will be debated (it already is to some degree and the old question of who is the highest paid employee of Marquette University has resurfaced) and some will call for the abolishment of it because it is inconsistent with a Jesuit Catholic mission.

Combine that with a spreading apathy and loss of revenue and the results will stink. Can you say M-i-d  M-a-j-o-r?????

Look, basketball is a big part of what has made Marquette what it is today. Whether pro or nojo, we're stuck for a few years. The potential liabilities of terminating a coach now, including loss of major players, is huge and something I don't want to go through. And, I'm certainly not throwing a coach overboard before the New Year in the current season.

[franklinjerry]

9156 you've twice mentioned player "Fields" Does he go by another name?

[Silent Verbal]

With all due respect, this is kind of the problem for me. Judson was a respected assistant...20 years ago. And then an objectively bad HC.  His career since leaving U of I was so mediocre that he was a Director of Ops 30 years into his career.  Not exactly Wojo leveraging a Duke/USA basketball network to get someone with great experience and needed help on his bench.

Yeah, Director of Basketball Operations is the type of job they give a guy like Todd Townshend who just wants to hang around the program while he decides what he wants to do with his life.  Think Diener did it for a couple years, too.

[Shooter McGavin]

I'm talking about his playing in the Wisconsin basketball underground and getting screwed.
Marquette is a national university, in my view it should be more an international university, and should not depend on Wisconsin recruits.
I see that WOJO learned his lesson, no attribution neededd.  So lets go forward and play our new hand and build a national program.

Vogue I like your 10,000 foot view of things and I hope it’s not a mirage.  The view from 5,000 feet doesn’t look so pretty.  I’ve used this analogy before four years ago when the fire Wojo talk started.  I agree we need a strategic plan and stick to it.  But if he doesn’t show some promise this year with this group of athletes he can no long be part of the strategic plan.  They are good enough to be in the NCAA this year and be dominant next year if they stay.  This is make or break time for Wojo. If the University feels otherwise then the long term strategic plan is flawed.

[DegenerateDish]

If MU doesn’t win an NCAA game this year, this would be the second longest stretch of years in MU’s history (8 years, record is 11) between NCAA victories.

I believe he’s 100% coming back, not saying that’s what I personally want, but there’s little chance the university is in position financially to buy him out and then invest in a new hire and staff.