Back to Apathy?

[brewcity77]

The NCAA tournament is a media created event to sell beer and pizzas to college kids and those who think they still are.
It's fun, but should not be the goal of a university.

In a world of bad takes, this is probably your worst. You realize the only reason we talk about Al today is because of 1977, right? No one would care about Al if not for his walk-off title. He'd be just another character in the history books. Ultimately, the NCAA tournament is the only thing that really matters. The only reason I place so much import on conference titles is because they set you up for NCAA success.

[cheebs09]

I think if Wojo backed into a Sweet Sixteen, it would change my view a little. At least it would show he could prepare the team for two single elimination games on short turnaround and win with the pressure on.

Right now we can only celebrate beating Nova and almost winning the Big East once.

[Markusquette]

TAMU and jesmu convincing themselves that hypothetical tournament success doesn't actually count as success so where we are now is no different than where we'd be with tournament runs from Wojo.

Truly mind-blowing mental gymnastics.

Yeah that is absolutely absurd. Thanks for the Monday morning laugh, fellas.

In a world of bad takes, this is probably your worst. You realize the only reason we talk about Al today is because of 1977, right? No one would care about Al if not for his walk-off title. He'd be just another character in the history books. Ultimately, the NCAA tournament is the only thing that really matters. The only reason I place so much import on conference titles is because they set you up for NCAA success.

Exactly right. I couldn't care less if a team underachieves during the regular season and ends up winning games in the NCAA tournament. Regular season games pale in comparison to wins during March. Obviously the discussion is the perception of Wojo had he gotten to the sweet sixteen, which he has not. Would it change my opinion of him and his success? Absolutely.

[panda]

Yeah that is absolutely absurd. Thanks for the Monday morning laugh, fellas.

Exactly right. I couldn't care less if a team underachieves during the regular season and ends up winning games in the NCAA tournament. Regular season games pale in comparison to wins during March. Obviously the discussion is the perception of Wojo had he gotten to the sweet sixteen, which he has not. Would it change my opinion of him and his success? Absolutely.

Consistent regular season success begets post season success. Not the other way around.

[5DollarPitcher]

Consistent regular season success begets post season success. Not the other way around.

Sure - via the concept that you need to make the NCAAT through a decent regular season. But once you're there, at whatever seed - you can make a run. A disappointing season earning an 11 seed will be completely forgotten if the team turns that into an Elite Eight.

If you're saying it's not possible to have a mediocre regular season and consistently go to Sweet Sixteens and Elite Eights, congratulations - you've defeated the insanely stupid hypothetical originally posed by TAMU and jesmu.

[panda]

Sure - via the concept that you need to make the NCAAT through a decent regular season. But once you're there, at whatever seed - you can make a run. A disappointing season earning an 11 seed will be completely forgotten if the team turns that into an Elite Eight.

If you're saying it's not possible to have a mediocre regular season and consistently go to Sweet Sixteens and Elite Eights, congratulations - you've defeated the insanely stupid hypothetical originally posed by TAMU and jesmu.

I'll rephrase because it seems like you misunderstood me.

Consistently winning in the regular seasons will eventually bring post season success over the long term.

A flash in the pan tournament run, albeit exciting for a fan base, doesn't change the fact the team didn't play that well for the entirety of the season.

Consistent regular season success begets post season success. Not the other way around.

[5DollarPitcher]

I'll rephrase because it seems like you misunderstood me.

Consistently winning in the regular seasons will eventually bring post season success over the long term.

A flash in the pan tournament run, albeit exciting for a fan base, doesn't change the fact the team didn't play that well for the entirety of the season.

Consistent regular season success begets post season success. Not the other way around.

I understand fully. You've rephrased my originally posed second option - you've defeated the insanely stupid hypothetical about "slipping in multiple Sweet Sixteens". It's a hypothetical that was impossible given what we've seen in the regular season over the long-term.

However - if Wojo did indeed do it. If he made multiple deep tourney runs in his first 7 years here while being as underwhelming as he has during the regular season, he would be viewed differently. People would view him as a "March coach".

[jesmu84]

I'll rephrase because it seems like you misunderstood me.

Consistently winning in the regular seasons will eventually bring post season success over the long term.

A flash in the pan tournament run, albeit exciting for a fan base, doesn't change the fact the team didn't play that well for the entirety of the season.

Consistent regular season success begets post season success. Not the other way around.

Exactly what TAMU and I have said.

And it's exactly why Wojo should likely be done here (regardless if he had 2 sweet 16 appearances during his time).

[panda]

Exactly what TAMU and I have said.

And it's exactly why Wojo should likely be done here (regardless if he had 2 sweet 16 appearances during his time).

Yep I agree. There's a comprehension issue between us and $5 as it seems we all agree.

[5DollarPitcher]

I don't agree that 2 Sweet Sixteens in Wojo's tenure would still make him a poor coach. I think it would make him a fabled "March magician". But he hasn't done it. So....

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

March magician. Another word for fool's gold eh?

[Silent Verbal]

March magician. Another word for fool's gold eh?

Saying that postseason games outside of the Final Four don't matter is just another way of excusing Wojo for never having won one.

[BM1090]

Saying that postseason games outside of the Final Four don't matter is just another way of excusing Wojo for never having won one.
[/quote

But nobody has done that in this thread.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Saying that postseason games outside of the Final Four don't matter is just another way of excusing Wojo for never having won one.

When did I say that they don't matter? And believe it or not,  not every post on this site can be politicized into projo or nojo. Some have nothing to do with Wojo.  I've been singing this refrain long before Wojo was a twinkle in the BOTs eye.

[shoothoops]

Kevin Ollie is jobless cause he has a show cause until 2022 for a variety of significant NCAA violations. If not for that, he would absolutely have a job despite only winning with Calhoun's recruits.  If Josh Pastner and Bryce Drew could more or less immediately after blowing out at their previous gigs, Ollie would have had no issue.

And Mick Cronin's last 6 years in the AAC featured 2 conference titles, 2 30 win seasons, and multiple NCAA victories, even if not a bundle of S16s. That's what got him the UCLA job. But mind you, it's a crappy job in the current landscape and didn't have anyone knocking down the door.

But regardless, putting Cronin and Wojo in the same convo just cause neither has had tourney success is ludicrous.

Bryce Drew had four first places finishes in five seasons in the Horizon League. He recruited Darius Garland, (out for year after first game with injury) Aaron Nesmith, others that have both left, and are still at Vandy. Grand Canyon was and is a reasonable landing spot after a couple of struggling seasons at Vandy, after a 5th place NCAA team there. 

[MU82]

March magician. Another word for fool's gold eh?

Worked for Steve Lavin for awhile at UCLA.

Year after year he was on the hot seat because he didn't win conference titles and didn't get top seeds ... and then he'd take UCLA to the Sweet 16 and they'd have to keep him for another year or two.

After going E8-S16-FR-S16-S16-S16 (despite finishing in the middle of the pack most seasons), the wheels really fell off in 2002-03, and UCLA took that opportunity to can him.

[Markusquette]

Consistent regular season success begets post season success. Not the other way around.

Maybe. Could be a setup for a big let down as well. I'd still much rather have two sweet sixteen appearances during mediocre regular seasons as opposed to a great regular season followed by no success in the tournament.

Since we're speaking hypothetically...it's all moot point since we have no tournament success to even speak of. But the entire premise of the hypothetical is would Wojo be viewed differently with TWO sweet sixteen births? I don't see how you can say it doesn't change anything.

[swoopem]

We are honestly going down the road of "only National Championships and Final Fours matter come tournament time"? What is wrong with you people. Just call a spade a spade. Wojo can't win in the tournament and it's been a big problem.

Wojo has barley proven that he can win in February let alone the tournament

Anyone who would take a good regular season and get knocked out first round  as a 3 or 4 seed over a stressful, but still successful according to your "make the tournament" metric, season and go on a sweet sixteen run as a 11 or 12 seed is lying

[CTWarrior]

Some folks here seem to have more apathy toward their alma mater's team than they do toward two players who helped mess up a promising 2018-19 season for their alma mater.

I have no animosity toward the Hauser brothers because I probably would have let if I was one of them, too.

[BM1090]

Wojo has barley proven that he can win in February let alone the tournament

Anyone who would take a good regular season and get knocked out first round  as a 3 or 4 seed over a stressful, but still successful according to your "make the tournament" metric, season and go on a sweet sixteen run as a 11 or 12 seed is lying

No chance. Give me 2008, 2009 or 2010 over 2011 every single time. The regular season was fun all three of those seasons. I enjoyed those three seasons far more than 2011 despite getting knocked out in the second round in 08 and 09 and the first round in 2010. The S16 run in 2011 was fun for a week, but that was my least favorite successful Marquette season of the past 20 years, and that includes 16-17 and 18-19.

[Galway Eagle]

No chance. Give me 2008, 2009 or 2010 over 2011 every single time. The regular season was fun all three of those seasons. I enjoyed those three seasons far more than 2011 despite getting knocked out in the second round in 08 and 09 and the first round in 2010. The S16 run in 2011 was fun for a week, but that was my least favorite successful Marquette season of the past 20 years, and that includes 16-17 and 18-19.

Wasn't a fan yet in 08 but agree about 09 & 10

[MU82]

I am glad for Tony Bennett that he won the 2019 championship because few were saying about 2018: "It's not that big a deal that they became the first 1 to lose to a 16 because they had such a fine season. Barely hurts at all. Look at all those wins they had against N.C. State, Duke and BC."

Making history. Being the butt of jokes for an entire year. That had to be the worst. I like Bennett, and am glad he didn't have that as his legacy.

So there are degrees to all this stuff.

We almost lost to Holy Cross as a 3 and then we REALLY almost lost to Davidson as a 3. And either would have really, really, really sucked. I won't say that either would have "ruined" the season, but I doubt I would have remembered those seasons very fondly.

[Billy Hoyle]

I am glad for Tony Bennett that he won the 2019 championship because few were saying about 2018: "It's not that big a deal that they became the first 1 to lose to a 16 because they had such a fine season. Barely hurts at all. Look at all those wins they had against N.C. State, Duke and BC."

Making history. Being the butt of jokes for an entire year. That had to be the worst. I like Bennett, and am glad he didn't have that as his legacy.

So there are degrees to all this stuff.

We almost lost to Holy Cross as a 3 and then we REALLY almost lost to Davidson as a 3. And either would have really, really, really sucked. I won't say that either would have "ruined" the season, but I doubt I would have remembered those seasons very fondly.

Just think about 2001-02. Win the GAS, knocked off Cincy and Louisville on national TV, ranked most of the season, CUSA title game, Wade's emergence, that was such a fun season...and Tulsa cast a permanent shadow over all of that.

[MU82]

Just think about 2001-02. Win the GAS, knocked off Cincy and Louisville on national TV, ranked most of the season, CUSA title game, Wade's emergence, that was such a fun season...and Tulsa cast a permanent shadow over all of that.

Yeah, that sucked. I wish you hadn't reminded me!

[Shooter McGavin]

Saying that postseason games outside of the Final Four don't matter is just another way of excusing Wojo for never having won one.

He is winning two this year.  This will all be mental masturbation come March.  😂