Back to Apathy?

[Dr. Blackheart]

Poor misguided folks. They missed the whole point. Lots of unhappiness? Maybe so. But doesn't Santa take a little bit of that unhappiness away? Doesn't a smile on Christmas morning scratch out a tear cried on a sadder day? Not much maybe. But what would happen if we all tried to be like Santa and learned to give as only he can give: of ourselves, our talents, our love and our hearts? Maybe we could all learn Santa's beautiful lesson and maybe there would finally be peace on Earth and good will toward men.

[The Lens]

I hope Dawson, Carton and Lewis come back.  Kids seems to jump at anything close to a 2nd round grade.  Markus is the rare exception. 

I said before that the sked opens up now.

Per KenPom:

Sat Jan 2      109   Georgetown   W, 77-72   71   65%   Away       ×   
Tue Jan 5      44   Connecticut   W, 71-69   67   56%   Home       ×   
Fri Jan 8      3   Villanova           L, 75-65   65   19%   Away       ×   
Tue Jan 12      63   Providence   W, 73-69   67   65%   Home       ×   
Sat Jan 16      93   St. John's           W, 79-76   73   61%   Away       ×   
Wed Jan 20   109   Georgetown   W, 79-70   71   79%   Home       ×   
Sat Jan 23      86   DePaul           W, 78-71   71   73%   Home       ×   
Wed Jan 27   63   Providence   L, 72-71   67   49%   Away       ×   
Tue Feb 2      70   Butler           W, 74-69   68   68%   Home       ×

If we get to Feb 2 and we're 8-5 in conf or even 7-6 we'll know that we're a solid squad.  Being even just 7-6 with 3 of our 4 toughest games behind us would be huge.

Let's make some hay!

[PointWarrior]

Dawson, Garcia, Lewis - second rounders after this season, can I sell you a bridge?

Very apathetic about this program.  Wojo is taking it nowhere but mediocrity.   And a frustrating mediocrity - win a couple exciting games, crap the bed against average teams. 

[Shooter McGavin]

Love it Lens!  Lets do it!  Merry Christmas everyone!

[MU82]

I hope Dawson, Carton and Lewis come back.  Kids seems to jump at anything close to a 2nd round grade.  Markus is the rare exception. 

I said before that the sked opens up now.

Per KenPom:

Sat Jan 2      109   Georgetown   W, 77-72   71   65%   Away       ×   
Tue Jan 5      44   Connecticut   W, 71-69   67   56%   Home       ×   
Fri Jan 8      3   Villanova           L, 75-65   65   19%   Away       ×   
Tue Jan 12      63   Providence   W, 73-69   67   65%   Home       ×   
Sat Jan 16      93   St. John's           W, 79-76   73   61%   Away       ×   
Wed Jan 20   109   Georgetown   W, 79-70   71   79%   Home       ×   
Sat Jan 23      86   DePaul           W, 78-71   71   73%   Home       ×   
Wed Jan 27   63   Providence   L, 72-71   67   49%   Away       ×   
Tue Feb 2      70   Butler           W, 74-69   68   68%   Home       ×

If we get to Feb 2 and we're 8-5 in conf or even 7-6 we'll know that we're a solid squad.  Being even just 7-6 with 3 of our 4 toughest games behind us would be huge.

Let's make some hay!

The record you're talking about is realistic, and I obviously hope it happens (or that our record is even better). If we're something like 5-8 after that stretch, it would be very bad.

Love the optimism.

We Are Marquette!

[Markusquette]

Very rarely do I turn off MU games but I started watching NBA with about 8-10 minutes left in the second half and switched back occasionally to see Nova's lead balloon. Not any less of a fan, but not any more optimistic about coming back from a deficit like that.

I will say I feel this team is more talented than their record shows. The badgers look very good and MU had a nice win. Same with CU. A couple other games were very close. It's unfortunate they couldn't seal the deal in the end vs. Seton Hall but that was an uphill battle. However talent won't translate to wins if they're not experienced enough and coached well enough.

The realist in me is not surprised. After Markus' graduation, it's clear guys would need to take a big leap. And when the newcomers are the biggest impact players, it goes to show you that they will be fine with more experience (assuming they all stick around longer) but maybe not much better overall this season.

Cain is basically the same player just getting more touches. Elliott, same player. Torrence is a non-factor and non Big East caliber guard. Theo is the most improved out of all the returning players. Koby is also the same player but a little more efficient.

Unfortunately for Wojo, his leash is shortening. This team has another couple of upsets in them but surely more losses. To your point tower, MU could use another switchable wing player. Sadly, Bailey left an open spot for someone to fill.

I wouldn't say I am apathetic about this team or the season, but based on the circumstances, the games aren't as exciting. Imagine how exciting that win over UW would have been if fans were present?

[Viper]

Very rarely do I turn off MU games but I started watching NBA with about 8-10 minutes left in the second half and switched back occasionally to see Nova's lead balloon. Not any less of a fan, but not any more optimistic about coming back from a deficit like that.

I will say I feel this team is more talented than their record shows. The badgers look very good and MU had a nice win. Same with CU. A couple other games were very close. It's unfortunate they couldn't seal the deal in the end vs. Seton Hall but that was an uphill battle. However talent won't translate to wins if they're not experienced enough and coached well enough.

The realist in me is not surprised. After Markus' graduation, it's clear guys would need to take a big leap. And when the newcomers are the biggest impact players, it goes to show you that they will be fine with more experience (assuming they all stick around longer) but maybe not much better overall this season.

Cain is basically the same player just getting more touches. Elliott, same player. Torrence is a non-factor and non Big East caliber guard. Theo is the most improved out of all the returning players. Koby is also the same player but a little more efficient.

Unfortunately for Wojo, his leash is shortening. This team has another couple of upsets in them but surely more losses. To your point tower, MU could use another switchable wing player. Sadly, Bailey left an open spot for someone to fill.

I wouldn't say I am apathetic about this team or the season, but based on the circumstances, the games aren't as exciting. Imagine how exciting that win over UW would have been if fans were present?

i agree with your summary. And, the swing/miss on Torrance, and Cain basically the same guy, only with more minutes, hurts. I'm typically optimistic that guys will improve, but I'm not with Torrance.
Oh well, hoping for 11-12 BE wins, feeling pessimistic that 10-10 might be the ceiling on this team.

[shoothoops]

They would be building statues at SLU but I know your post is partially in jest

Respectfully, are these the comparisons MU wants to make? SLU went 25 years with a school President and board that largely wasn't interested in Athletics, resources, infrastructure, budgets, playing in a different league. MU has had signficantly more commitment to that over that time. SLU still has some challenges today with the same things, although it's improved quite a bit.

In the past decade, MU has won an NCAA game in 3 different NCAA's. SLU? Also 3. If anything MU is perhaps fortunate Rick Majerus' health declined or perhaps that would swing a little more the other way as opposed to being similar. Or moving forward that Travis Ford is getting it going a little bit now. Certainly the NCAA runs are different but that is a sobering stat for some.

If we are going by NCAA success, MU has a 2003 Final Four. And it has a 3 year 2nd weekend stretch with Buzz. Prior to that we are going back to the year after Al McGuire. All of these are good things, but let's not get carried away here. MU can do better, and can be better too.

Perhaps MU can discuss how it can be more successful. MU certainly only needs to look to its conference peers for that right now. Villanova, etc...

[We R Final Four]

Very rarely do I turn off MU games but I started watching NBA with about 8-10 minutes left in the second half and switched back occasionally to see Nova's lead balloon. Not any less of a fan, but not any more optimistic about coming back from a deficit like that.

I will say I feel this team is more talented than their record shows. The badgers look very good and MU had a nice win. Same with CU. A couple other games were very close. It's unfortunate they couldn't seal the deal in the end vs. Seton Hall but that was an uphill battle. However talent won't translate to wins if they're not experienced enough and coached well enough.

The realist in me is not surprised. After Markus' graduation, it's clear guys would need to take a big leap. And when the newcomers are the biggest impact players, it goes to show you that they will be fine with more experience (assuming they all stick around longer) but maybe not much better overall this season.

Cain is basically the same player just getting more touches. Elliott, same player. Torrence is a non-factor and non Big East caliber guard. Theo is the most improved out of all the returning players. Koby is also the same player but a little more efficient.

Unfortunately for Wojo, his leash is shortening. This team has another couple of upsets in them but surely more losses. To your point tower, MU could use another switchable wing player. Sadly, Bailey left an open spot for someone to fill.

I wouldn't say I am apathetic about this team or the season, but based on the circumstances, the games aren't as exciting. Imagine how exciting that win over UW would have been if fans were present?

Cain is not the same player....still not as much as we'd like to see—but not the same. Same with Koby. Not the same player.

[willie warrior]

i agree with your summary. And, the swing/miss on Torrance, and Cain basically the same guy, only with more minutes, hurts. I'm typically optimistic that guys will improve, but I'm not with Torrance.
Oh well, hoping for 11-12 BE wins, feeling pessimistic that 10-10 might be the ceiling on this team.

10-10 as MUs ceiling is about right for wojo. Face it sports fans. That is about what it will always be with him, and it is about what many posters here are acceptable with.

[vogue65]

Some people see 7 years as a very long time, some see 7 years as a drop in the bucket.
Some confuse fear with anger, or patience with apathy.
We seem to forget or discount the facts or cherry pick our reality.
My recollection is that the cupboard was left totally bare.
The Board of Trustees raised the eligibility requirements for admission and participating.
We had to field a competitive team right away which meant graduate transfers, regular transfers or one and done from the Wisconsin pool of unrealistic expectations.
I think it has been a small miracle that we have not been totall embarrassed and huliliated over the past 7 years.

Yesterday I watched Wisconsin play Michigan State and thought what could never have been.   Someone should write an honest book on the transfer drama of that Marquette  basketball delemma/fiasco.  It would be better than Hoop Dreams. 

[4everwarriors]

Can't put the Hauser fiasco blame on anyone else's doorstep but Woj's. He recruited them and he created the team chemistry in which both Hausers opted to transfer out of the program, hey?

[vogue65]

Can't put the Hauser fiasco blame on anyone else's doorstep but Woj's. He recruited them and he created the team chemistry in which both Hausers opted to transfer out of the program, hey?

Yes and no.

Factor in the unfolding of events, the fog of war.

Who knew how impatient some people would be?
Who knew how record setting good Howard would be?
Who knew that Howard would grow and change into the man he has become?
Who can foresee the development of adolescents?
Ellenson, Hauser were the low hanging fruit that filled and need and created a longer term problem.
We can make all kinds of cases to prove our points. 
Looking at the team on the court at this point, all cases notwithstanding, I'm all in with WOJO.
Did he make some forced errors, yes.
If today I had to look for blame, I'd put it on the BOT.
Long term they are probably right, short term, 7 years, it has been painful.

[Lennys Tap]

Some people see 7 years as a very long time, some see 7 years as a drop in the bucket.
Some confuse fear with anger, or patience with apathy.
We seem to forget or discount the facts or cherry pick our reality.
My recollection is that the cupboard was left totally bare.

Vogue


The roster that Wojo inherited was not the 1976 Indiana Hoosiers and nobody has said otherwise. But it included: a senior returning starter at point guard, a junior top 100 switchable who is still playing in the NBA, a junior top 100 power forward, a sophomore class that was far and away Buzz William's highest rated class ever (top 30 switchable, top 60 switchable, top 60 PG and top 100 transfer C) and a top 100 switchable freshman. All told, there were seven (7) rsci top 100 players on the roster that Wojo took over.

Anyone who calls that a completely empty cupboard is either forgetting, discounting the facts or cherry picking reality.

[Silent Verbal]

Yes and no.

Factor in the unfolding of events, the fog of war.

Who knew how impatient some people would be?
Who knew how record setting good Howard would be?
Who knew that Howard would grow and change into the man he has become?
Who can foresee the development of adolescents?
Ellenson, Hauser were the low hanging fruit that filled and need and created a longer term problem.
We can make all kinds of cases to prove our points. 
Looking at the team on the court at this point, all cases notwithstanding, I'm all in with WOJO.
Did he make some forced errors, yes.
If today I had to look for blame, I'd put it on the BOT.
Long term they are probably right, short term, 7 years, it has been painful.

Sam Hauser was not "low hanging fruit that filled a need".  He was a three year starter before transferring, was universally beloved by the fan base, and remains the most solid all-around player Wojo has recruited.  If you were referring to Joey, every single Marquette fan was elated when he chose MU over the likes of Kansas and Michigan State.  To call him "low hanging fruit that filled a need" is absolutely revisionist history.

[MU82]

I wonder how many years it will be before every other Hangin' at the Al thread doesn't devolve into debates about the Hausers.

Maybe when Joey's 20-year NBA career ends.

[Markusquette]

Cain is not the same player....still not as much as we'd like to see—but not the same. Same with Koby. Not the same player.

I get what you mean. On paper you're absolutely right. I just don't think they added much of anything that really propels MU to more than we expected. We saw Koby get hot and take over multiple games last year and completely disappear or force the issue in others. He's playing more efficiently and smarter which I love. Someone has to fill in for the scoring once Markus and Sacar left. Just look at the game logs and you'll see the same though. Koby shows up in some games barely scores in others.

Jamal is getting more consistent playing time (10 more mpg) so he isn't as worried about making an impact before getting pulled. Nice to see him stepping up a as a senior. He's shooting and rebounding well.

This year is really dependent on the progression of our young talent to complement the role-playing seniors. I'd argue Koby is playing the best overall right now, but he's not the X-factor. That would be someone like Carton or Garcia.

[BCHoopster]

I wonder how many years it will be before every other Hangin' at the Al thread doesn't devolve into debates about the Hausers.

Maybe when Joey's 20-year NBA career ends.

I really am happy that Sam gets a chance in the NCAA tournament, if he stayed at MU, he would be gone and no tournament last year.  For Joey, it was nice to see
him have a great game yesterday, played well.  I believe both recruits that MU got this year might be better than Joey, time will tell on that.  Garcia has to learn how
to play against other big kids and get stronger.  Lewis just needs more playing time, good rebounder, decent shot, not great, and both need to work on there free throws.  In time they will be very good.  Just trying to figure out who will play the wing when Cain leaves.  Transfer here we come. 

[jesmu84]

I really am happy that Sam gets a chance in the NCAA tournament, if he stayed at MU, he would be gone and no tournament last year.  For Joey, it was nice to see
him have a great game yesterday, played well.  I believe both recruits that MU got this year might be better than Joey, time will tell on that.  Garcia has to learn how
to play against other big kids and get stronger.  Lewis just needs more playing time, good rebounder, decent shot, not great, and both need to work on there free throws.  In time they will be very good.  Just trying to figure out who will play the wing when Cain leaves.  Transfer here we come.

Sam has already had a chance in the tourney...?

[BM1090]

Sam has already had a chance in the tourney...?

Two!

[Markusquette]

I really am happy that Sam gets a chance in the NCAA tournament, if he stayed at MU, he would be gone and no tournament last year.  For Joey, it was nice to see
him have a great game yesterday, played well.  I believe both recruits that MU got this year might be better than Joey, time will tell on that.  Garcia has to learn how
to play against other big kids and get stronger.  Lewis just needs more playing time, good rebounder, decent shot, not great, and both need to work on there free throws.  In time they will be very good.  Just trying to figure out who will play the wing when Cain leaves.  Transfer here we come.

I'm not sure I see either being better than Joey, and I don't really wish to see Joey playing well either. From the year he played at MU and whatever went on behind the scenes, he seems like a big baby.

[MU82]

Some folks here seem to have more apathy toward their alma mater's team than they do toward two players who helped mess up a promising 2018-19 season for their alma mater.

[Billy Hoyle]

Some folks here seem to have more apathy toward their alma mater's team than they do toward two players who helped mess up a promising 2018-19 season for their alma mater.

It was just one player...and a coach.

[Viper]

Some people see 7 years as a very long time, some see 7 years as a drop in the bucket.
Some confuse fear with anger, or patience with apathy.
We seem to forget or discount the facts or cherry pick our reality.
My recollection is that the cupboard was left totally bare.
The Board of Trustees raised the eligibility requirements for admission and participating.
We had to field a competitive team right away which meant graduate transfers, regular transfers or one and done from the Wisconsin pool of unrealistic expectations.
I think it has been a small miracle that we have not been totall embarrassed and huliliated over the past 7 years.

Yesterday I watched Wisconsin play Michigan State and thought what could never have been.   Someone should write an honest book on the transfer drama of that Marquette  basketball delemma/fiasco.  It would be better than Hoop Dreams.

i don't necessarily disagree. However, even with a bare cupboard, it doesn't take this long to achieve what...a single ncaa tourney win? Considering MU has solid facilities, has a bigly recruiting budget and pays the coach quite well, MU just has to be better.  For ex., how the heck does a program such as Creighton rise above MU? Creighton? Omaha? Missouri Valley...or from wherever, Creighton? Point is, Wojo is what he is. Program is what it will be under him. Not sure of a replacement (maybe Stan Johnson rocks it at LMU...currently 5-3...and is a possibility in another year or two), but Wojo has run his course here. Gotta strive for better than this cold gravy that's become MU basketball.

[Viper]

It was just one player...and a coach.

it was the coach. Player did what coach allowed. Those two other players? Back page news.