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Author Topic: WOJO HAS TO GOJO  (Read 35220 times)

NCMUFan

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2020, 03:25:46 PM »
Only game 3.  I vote we continue the season.

Shooter McGavin

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2020, 03:34:34 PM »
Damn Brew, now I’m depressed and that takes a lot.  My hope is that the defense will carry the day.  In years past our stinker games would be absolute blowouts.  This one was not that.  Our offense was absolutely terrible last night and it was an 8 point game.  If that was the low bar (one of hopefully only two to three games) for the season we will be pretty good.  That is a Big IF however.

I think we need to give this a couple more weeks.  If we get absolutely rolled by Wisconsin, UCLA, Creighton etc.,  I’m right there with you.  My interest will only be casual and I will not plan evenings around Marquette games.   That would represent a 35 year change for me. 

mileskishnish72

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2020, 03:36:50 PM »
+ 100, Brew.

Just so sick of mediocre. The man cannot take advantage of the talented kids he recruits. There have been numerous games in the last few years that have followed the pattern you saw last night - we get a nice lead, they make adjustments, we don't, lead disappears, a loss ensues. The old saying that people keep letting money interfere with their decision-making is true in this case, so the man isn't going anywhere. A shame.

StillAWarrior

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2020, 03:39:29 PM »
Being a fan is supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be rewarding. It's supposed to offer hope.

Know how I can tell you're not from Cleveland?
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5DollarPitcher

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #54 on: December 02, 2020, 03:39:40 PM »
Only game 3.  I vote we continue the season.
Game 3?  No no no, sir this is game 199!

Eldon

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #55 on: December 02, 2020, 03:42:21 PM »
+ 100, Brew.

Just so sick of mediocre. The man cannot take advantage of the talented kids he recruits. There have been numerous games in the last few years that have followed the pattern you saw last night - we get a nice lead, they make adjustments, we don't, lead disappears, a loss ensues. The old saying that people keep letting money interfere with their decision-making is true in this case, so the man isn't going anywhere. A shame.

Off the cuff, I think you could extend this to in-season as well.  Wojo wins game 1 of the round-robin; opposing coach comes better prepared for the second game; Wojo loses the rematch. 

Evidence of this pattern would be performing worse the latter half of the season (check).  Someone could actually pull these numbers and see, however. 

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #56 on: December 02, 2020, 03:42:43 PM »
Last night was a new experience for me. It was a combination of things...the squandered lead, the toddler screaming before halftime that she couldn't go upstairs to brush her teeth unless daddy came along, my personal delayed start to the second half as I prepared dinner after putting the kid to bed, then the lacksadaisical effort I witnessed as I tried to catch up to real time (eventually got there in about the final minute).

Anyway...watching that second half, I just felt demoralized. Once Oklahoma State stretched the lead to 7, all I could think was "why am I bothering?" We had 20 minutes by that point and hadn't shown any ability or willingness to make adjustments. We couldn't establish anyone in the high post to create, we weren't moving the ball, it just felt like a loss. Even though the margin never got insurmountable, I just struggled to care.

I have spent a lot of my time living for Marquette basketball. Not the "dominates all aspects of my life" level we see from guru/iceman, but I spend my spare time writing articles about it, researching teams and tournament profiles, and obviously donating and attending games when that is something we can do. And despite the promise we showed in the first week, it was just tough for me to care last night. I'm sure a 3-game winning streak would get me right back in the fold, but at this point, it really feels like no matter the talent changes or improvements, no matter the promise we display, it's all going to end in heartbreak, so what's the point of investing myself in that, emotionally or financially?

I have tried to be patient with this coach and this staff. I love the players they have brought in, the representatives of the university, and want to get excited, but what's the point when the same chronic ineptitudes crop up year after year?

Being a fan is supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be rewarding. It's supposed to offer hope. Last night wasn't fun, rewarding, or hopeful. It was just the slow march of resignation. I want them to turn it around, but it's hard for me to invest in a Wojo team again.


Bingo.  I also think the last nine months have shown me that life is too short to be invested into bad basketball.
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tower912

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #57 on: December 02, 2020, 03:45:34 PM »
I was thinking about how nice it would have been to see some Markus hero ball rather than the standing around.   
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NickelDimer

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #58 on: December 02, 2020, 03:51:47 PM »
Great coaching isn’t in the punch, it’s in the counterpunch. Wojo has shown time and time and time again he has no counterpunch. It’s the most consistent theme of his tenure.
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brewcity77

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #59 on: December 02, 2020, 04:00:36 PM »
I was thinking about how nice it would have been to see some Markus hero ball rather than the standing around.

Markus throwing bombs over that zone would've been the perfect antidote last night. Yes, they had length, but his ability to sidestep or step back would've got him open enough looks. Definitely felt his departure last night.

Great coaching isn’t in the punch, it’s in the counterpunch. Wojo has shown time and time and time again he has no counterpunch. It’s the most consistent theme of his tenure.

I think Wojo has shown us time and again why he was a great assistant. He can recruit, he can get pieces, he can put together a decent gameplan, he can even make an adjustment or draw up an ATO play that works. But when it comes to game-long strategic changes, he comes up short. When it comes to adjusting repeatedly on the fly, he doesn't quite have that. He's got enough to be an asset on the bench, but I'm not convinced it's enough to be an asset in the boss's chair.
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DomesticatedEagle

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #60 on: December 02, 2020, 04:04:27 PM »
BrewCity77 - this is well said and I had the exact same feelings last night as I watched the game. Leading up to last night, my hope for growth and improvement of in-game coaching over Wojo's tenure really had sprung eternal. I imagine we all have different breaking points when it comes to losing that hope. I think last night was mine.

We may end up having a successful season and Wojo really may someday have meaningful improvement in his in-game coaching and adjustments. However, I no longer believe nor have hope that it will happen.

Badgerhater

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #61 on: December 02, 2020, 04:14:42 PM »
Bad coaching abuses the talent a player provides to a team.

Silent Verbal

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #62 on: December 02, 2020, 04:18:22 PM »
I was thinking about how nice it would have been to see some Markus hero ball rather than the standing around.

You saw four years of that, do you really need more?  I would’ve loved to have seen more D-Wade, another year of Vander, a sophomore campaign from Henry.  Markus exhausted his eligibility, he was here for the maximum amount of time allowed.  There’s no need to be wistful about his absence.  He’s gone, we never won anything while he was here, and he’ll never play another game for Marquette.  You believe that happy crappy?

MikeDeanesDarkGlasses

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #63 on: December 02, 2020, 04:19:06 PM »
Great coaching isn’t in the punch, it’s in the counterpunch. Wojo has shown time and time and time again he has no counterpunch. It’s the most consistent theme of his tenure.

Actually, great coaching relies on the punch aka "A System" to build your program around.  Wojo has failed to install that consistently, along with an ability to react in game.  The Wojo system is supposed to be a high powered guard offense that relies on motion at the top of the key.  He's not been able to recruit the right mix of guys to run it properly.   


GooooMarquette

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #64 on: December 02, 2020, 04:21:49 PM »
I think the title of this thread is really clever.

(That didn't need to be in actual teal, did it?)

Badgerhater

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #65 on: December 02, 2020, 04:24:02 PM »
Actually, great coaching relies on the punch aka "A System" to build your program around.  Wojo has failed to install that consistently, along with an ability to react in game.  The Wojo system is supposed to be a high powered guard offense that relies on motion at the top of the key.  He's not been able to recruit the right mix of guys to run it properly.

Duke system runs great with Duke talent.   That has been the problem for most ex-Duke assistants.

5DollarPitcher

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #66 on: December 02, 2020, 04:24:17 PM »
Bad coaching abuses the talent a player provides to a team.
Right - and the sad part is for these great recruits / kids is that they think they're picking Marquette because Wojo's showcasing will help their pro prospects.  Unfortunately being Kobe Bryant in Wojo's system tends to hurt these kids' pro prospects.  In almost every scenario, for a college player being drafted to the league, it will be the first time in their life they are not the best or second best player on the basketball court.  Better coaches like Wright or Cal put their players in roles where they learn how to be a cog in a machine - no matter how talented they are.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 04:27:53 PM by 5DollarPitcher »

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #67 on: December 02, 2020, 04:32:55 PM »
Actually, great coaching relies on the punch aka "A System" to build your program around.  Wojo has failed to install that consistently, along with an ability to react in game.  The Wojo system is supposed to be a high powered guard offense that relies on motion at the top of the key.  He's not been able to recruit the right mix of guys to run it properly.   


I just don't think this is accurate.  Wojo's teams have generally not had a problem scoring.  Generally he puts together a good gameplan and executes to that plan. 

Wojo's problems have always come when the other teams makes an adjustments that he has to react to on the fly.  Like the zone last night.  This has been obvious since year one. 
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

goldeneagle91114

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #68 on: December 02, 2020, 04:41:03 PM »
Last night was a new experience for me. It was a combination of things...the squandered lead, the toddler screaming before halftime that she couldn't go upstairs to brush her teeth unless daddy came along, my personal delayed start to the second half as I prepared dinner after putting the kid to bed, then the lacksadaisical effort I witnessed as I tried to catch up to real time (eventually got there in about the final minute).

Anyway...watching that second half, I just felt demoralized. Once Oklahoma State stretched the lead to 7, all I could think was "why am I bothering?" We had 20 minutes by that point and hadn't shown any ability or willingness to make adjustments. We couldn't establish anyone in the high post to create, we weren't moving the ball, it just felt like a loss. Even though the margin never got insurmountable, I just struggled to care.

I have spent a lot of my time living for Marquette basketball. Not the "dominates all aspects of my life" level we see from guru/iceman, but I spend my spare time writing articles about it, researching teams and tournament profiles, and obviously donating and attending games when that is something we can do. And despite the promise we showed in the first week, it was just tough for me to care last night. I'm sure a 3-game winning streak would get me right back in the fold, but at this point, it really feels like no matter the talent changes or improvements, no matter the promise we display, it's all going to end in heartbreak, so what's the point of investing myself in that, emotionally or financially?

I have tried to be patient with this coach and this staff. I love the players they have brought in, the representatives of the university, and want to get excited, but what's the point when the same chronic ineptitudes crop up year after year?

Being a fan is supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be rewarding. It's supposed to offer hope. Last night wasn't fun, rewarding, or hopeful. It was just the slow march of resignation. I want them to turn it around, but it's hard for me to invest in a Wojo team again.

DISCLAIMER: Brew I don't mean to call your fandom out.

But this is a HUGE concern for me even our most dedicated fans feel this way. the product Wojo is producing is not consistently a top 25 product, or a Big East Contender product, or deep tourney run product. The casual fan is going to take their time and dollars and spend it elsewhere. I can't imagine being a student during the wojo era. Now you throw in COVID... this could get really bleak, quickly.

NickelDimer

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #69 on: December 02, 2020, 04:45:00 PM »
Actually, great coaching relies on the punch aka "A System" to build your program around.  Wojo has failed to install that consistently, along with an ability to react in game.  The Wojo system is supposed to be a high powered guard offense that relies on motion at the top of the key.  He's not been able to recruit the right mix of guys to run it properly.
Eh all coaches have a system. All systems can be successful if executed correctly. What separates mediocre coaches from good coaches is how they respond when the system isn’t effective. That’s where he’s failed
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rocky_warrior

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #70 on: December 02, 2020, 04:48:40 PM »
I think the title of this thread is really clever.

(That didn't need to be in actual teal, did it?)

I keep thinking this:


But then in my search for that image, I realized Gojo invented and sells Purell.  So indeed, Wojo needing Gojo is correct this year, more than every other year.

goldeneagle91114

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #71 on: December 02, 2020, 04:49:18 PM »
I was thinking about how nice it would have been to see some Markus hero ball rather than the standing around.

Tower I appreciate almost everything you say, but the "Howard Experience" lasted a full 4 years and never produced a single meaningful milestone, except his own (all time leading scorer for MU).

He was a huger factor the the '18-'19 season collapse and the only factor that kept the Hauser's from returning. I would take a DJO, Vander Blue, or Wes Matthews over Howard any day of the week.

jesmu84

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #72 on: December 02, 2020, 05:05:21 PM »
What is utterly shocking after 7 years, is that he seems to not understand what his team's weaknesses are.  And if he DOES know what they are, nothing seems to be done to compensate for those weaknesses.  Like, last year, clearly we had a defense problem.  Okay, it looks like we solved that... but now we have a massive offense problem.  We don't have a half court offensive game.   How is that something that needs to be worked on at this point?  I get that this has been a messed up year... but is our entire coaching mentality to:

1. Correct problems of last year
2. Work on strength and conditioning
3. Give strange non basketball specific speeches about "out playing them" and "work harder"
4. Be a good respectable face of the University

because that is all I see.  Sounds like 6th place in the BEAST is what we should just expect at this point.

Can we put this point to bed already?

Did anyone else watch "all or nothing tottenham"? If you did, you'd think Jose is an absolute moron who only spouts cliches and vaguely helpful coach-speak.

But he's not a moron. He just doesn't say any tactical things when the camera is rolling.

Wojo seems to be inept as a tactics coach. But it isn't based on what he says in front of the camera.

5DollarPitcher

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #73 on: December 02, 2020, 05:11:32 PM »
Can we put this point to bed already?

Did anyone else watch "all or nothing tottenham"? If you did, you'd think Jose is an absolute moron who only spouts cliches and vaguely helpful coach-speak.

But he's not a moron. He just doesn't say any tactical things when the camera is rolling.

Wojo seems to be inept as a tactics coach. But it isn't based on what he says in front of the camera.
I'm positive this is giving Wojo too much credit.

Silent Verbal

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Re: WOJO HAS TO GOJO
« Reply #74 on: December 02, 2020, 05:19:19 PM »
Can we put this point to bed already?

Did anyone else watch "all or nothing tottenham"? If you did, you'd think Jose is an absolute moron who only spouts cliches and vaguely helpful coach-speak.

But he's not a moron. He just doesn't say any tactical things when the camera is rolling.

Wojo seems to be inept as a tactics coach. But it isn't based on what he says in front of the camera.

My all time favorite of Wojo’s was at Indiana:

“We’re in the bonus!  We are IN the bonus!  We need to play downhill because we’re in the bonus!”

It was like something out of a David Mamet play.

 

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