General College Basketball Thread 2020-2021

[Herman Cain]

I'm sure you're right. Still ...year 9 potentially where we have been irrelevant?  I couldn't have imagined this in a million years..  This is a dereliction of duty imo among the top brass at MU.  Totally inexcusable.

The resources available are second to none . You are correct it is truly inexcusable and at any other similarly configured institution a change would already have been made.

[The Sultan]

Dukiet years were far worse.

For goodness sakes yes. The end of the Deanne years were way worse. People have lost perspective.

[MuggsyB]

The resources available are second to none . You are correct it is truly inexcusable and at any other similarly configured institution a change would already have been made.

Yes, Herman.  And I'm thinking about how fantastic this day should be as an MU player and fanbase.  Especially in light of how difficult this year has been for everyone.  There is nothing better in sports than the NCAA basketball tournament and watching these players celebrate when their team is announced.  It's second to none and there is zero reason we have essentially been shut-out as a prime-time team for close to a decade.  I think it's perfectly reasonable for all of us to vent no matter how many times we repeat our points of view. This must change.  Time is short and so am.  Plus I will shrink eventually as we all do.

[PGsHeroes32]

As far as the draw...

Big East: I think Creighton can get to the Sweet 16. Not sure UCSB can shoot with them and Virginia's beatable. Not sure I'll pick them through, but they have the best Big East path. UConn could win one, but I think Alabama is a tough second round draw. 'Nova's draw is murder. Winthrop is tough and if they get to Purdue, I can't see them winning that. Georgetown will probably win their opener, but FSU is a tough draw in the second. So much length and talent.

Upsets: If there's a 4/13, I like Ohio over Virginia. No idea what UVA's COVID situation is and Jason Preston is a stud. Of the lower seeds, I'll be watching the two SEC teams. I don't think 14-Colgate over 3-Arkansas or 15-Iona over 2-Alabama happen, but those feel like the most likely if there's a big shock. For 12/5s, 'Nova losing and Georgetown winning look most likely. Interesting that 3/4 Big East teams are in 12/5 games.

Biggest Misses: I think Loyola-Chicago should've been seeded higher. Their record and metrics indicate they deserve better than an 8. Certainly not the top-4 seed their kenpom would indicate, but higher. Georgia Tech's zone will be a tough challenge, but if they get out of the first round, Illinois is kind of getting screwed getting a top-10 team in the metrics in the second round. On the bubble, Syracuse over Louisville I feel was a mistake. Basically, COVID killed Louisville. They got murdered by Wisconsin and UNC, both coming out of COVID pauses, and it killed their efficiency numbers.

Committee is generally consistent with stuff like this though. Mid majors with metrics but nothing in the way of wins the seeding heavily tilts towards the wins rather than computer numbers.

[MarquetteMike1977]

Sounds like the dude wants to be Dayton, Loyola, and SLU.

Dayton has 4 NCAA berths and 5 NCAA Wins in the last 8 Years. MU 0. Loyola has 2 NCAA Berths and 4 NCAA wins and a Final 4 in the last 8 years MU 0. SLU has 4 NCAA Bids maybe 5 and 3 NCAA Wins in the last 10 Years, and more NCAA wins then MU in the last 8 Years. But that is not what I am saying at all. MU was awesome in the Old Big East. The New Conference and Wojo it is on both of them on their watches. Yes Wojo is at fault I did not say he was not. I just want to Win and We have 0 NCAA wins our New Conference.

[Small Orange Soda]

Dayton has 4 NCAA berths and 5 NCAA Wins in the last 8 Years. MU 0. Loyola has 2 NCAA Berths and 4 NCAA wins and a Final 4 in the last 8 years MU 0. SLU has 4 NCAA Bids maybe 5 and 3 NCAA Wins in the last 10 Years, and more NCAA wins then MU in the last 8 Years. But that is not what I am saying at all. MU was awesome in the Old Big East. The New Conference and Wojo it is on both of them on their watches. Yes Wojo is at fault I did not say he was not. I just want to Win and We have 0 NCAA wins our New Conference.

It's completely bizarre that you think the new conference is the problem. It's not. At all.

[MU82]

Illinois will crush Loyola if the Ramblers can survive Georgia Tech (big if).

I haven't filled out my bracket yet, but I know I'm going with Illinois to win it all.

[MarquetteMike1977]

It's completely bizarre that you think the new conference is the problem. It's not. At all.

I am privy to stuff but I do not think that at all. I did not ever say that. It is On 1. MU 2. Wojo 3. The Conference Change.

[Nukem2]

Illinois will crush Loyola if the Ramblers can survive Georgia Tech (big if).

I haven't filled out my bracket yet, but I know I'm going with Illinois to win it all.

The Illini are indeed impressive.  Need to go thru the bracket tomorrow, but they are right up there in my mind,

[Small Orange Soda]

I am privy to stuff but I do not think that at all. I did not ever say that. It is On 1. MU 2. Wojo 3. The Conference Change.

I think the first two are interchangeable, but considering our options, the conference change was a home run.  Our abysmal record in the conference is on the coach.  We were much better in the much better conference.

[MarquetteMike1977]

I think the first two are interchangeable, but considering our options, the conference change was a home run.  Our abysmal record in the conference is on the coach.  We were much better in the much better conference.

Agree but MU hired the coach who was one of our not many Choices since Buzz, Shaka and others viewed our place in the conference as not as high as it was in the Old Big East. Obviously a coach makes a difference and MU probably knows that. But who can MU get to coach us do you have any ideas
Agree The Conference change was a home run for Villanova but not for MU with no NCAA wins. Am guessing MU knows a coach is important but could not get anyone better we used Rivers help to get Wojo, although I would of hired someone else but there were not many choices. Who should MU hire today

[Small Orange Soda]

Agree but MU hired the coach who was one of our not many Choices since Buzz, Shaka and others viewed our place in the conference as not as high as it was in the Old Big East. Obviously a coach makes a difference and MU probably knows that. But who can MU get to coach us do you have any ideas

I think the real issue was that during the last hiring process the upper levels of the university (AD and President) were in flux.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Times are out

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2021-03-14/2021-ncaa-tournament-tip-times-and-announcer-teams-announced-march-madness?amp&__twitter_impression=true

[MuggsyB]

Illinois will crush Loyola if the Ramblers can survive Georgia Tech (big if).

I haven't filled out my bracket yet, but I know I'm going with Illinois to win it all.

Agreed.  Illinois is the real deal.   If Loyola beats G. Tech that rd of 32 game could be ugly.  I would say they and the Zags are the favorites.  I think the COVID break hurt Baylor.  I'm guessing we see a lot of chalk with the 1 and 2 seeds.

[MuggsyB]

Times are out

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2021-03-14/2021-ncaa-tournament-tip-times-and-announcer-teams-announced-march-madness?amp&__twitter_impression=true

Thx.  I don't understand why they wouldn't start Thurs.

[Dish]

Thx.  I don't understand why they wouldn't start Thurs.

Covid testing and the First Four is all moved to Thursday.

[GooooMarquette]

I too was not around during Dukiet, but given our current resources compared to then, conference level and success of past two coaches, I'd imagine it's relatively comparable.

Input would be appreciated as I said, wasn't around during Dukiet years.

The question related to how we compare as a program now vs the Dukiet era. The answer I gave - that it was MUCH WORSE back then - is correct. And that's in part because we have dramatically greater resources today. The floor simply is much higher.

That does not mean we shouldn't aspire to do better; we should. But to compare the program today to the program back then is truly comparing apples and oranges.

[brewcity77]

Illinois will crush Loyola if the Ramblers can survive Georgia Tech (big if).

I haven't filled out my bracket yet, but I know I'm going with Illinois to win it all.

I don't know. It's a lot harder to speed a team up than slow them down, especially when you don't excel at turning your opponents over. I think there are some games where Illinois would really excel, but a team that will drag them into the muck can play with them.

Illinois was 6-3 in games played at 70 or fewer possessions. Still a winning record, but slowing them down accounted for half their losses. They had two more games that were 70 possessions in regulation against Indiana and Nebraska and won in overtime.

FWIW, Loyola has played over 70 possessions just twice all year and lost both. But that means successfully keeping teams at their pace 92.3% of the time and winning 91.7% of those games. I fully realize Illinois is a different talent level, but I could easily see that being a 65-possession game that is decided in the final minute either way.

[Billy Hoyle]

Thx.  I don't understand why they wouldn't start Thurs.

Either way it's a four day weekend for me.

[rocky_warrior]

Either way it's a four day weekend for me.

Right!?  And while I normally don't even think about the first 4, MSU/UCLA might draw some attention from me.

[CountryRoads]

Thx.  I don't understand why they wouldn't start Thurs.

Yeah, maybe something to do with quarantine. The MSU/UCLA game should be a good one to watch Thursday at least.

[MU82]

I don't know. It's a lot harder to speed a team up than slow them down, especially when you don't excel at turning your opponents over. I think there are some games where Illinois would really excel, but a team that will drag them into the muck can play with them.

Illinois was 6-3 in games played at 70 or fewer possessions. Still a winning record, but slowing them down accounted for half their losses. They had two more games that were 70 possessions in regulation against Indiana and Nebraska and won in overtime.

FWIW, Loyola has played over 70 possessions just twice all year and lost both. But that means successfully keeping teams at their pace 92.3% of the time and winning 91.7% of those games. I fully realize Illinois is a different talent level, but I could easily see that being a 65-possession game that is decided in the final minute either way.

Interesting data, brew. Thanks.

Loyola has to beat GaTech first. That will be difficult enough for them. Then we'll see!

[MU82]

It's never a good thing for our heroes when a loss to Marquette is used as a cudgel against a team.

Here is the lead in the big NC newspapers about the upcoming UNC-Madison matchup:

North Carolina's loss to Marquette raised the legitimate question of whether it deserved a spot in the NCAA tournament. After the Tar Heels' play in the ACC tournament, though, it's not out of the question to believe they can make a run.

It's probably the 20th time I've seen UNC's loss to us referred to in horrific terms -- and it's hard to blame any of them.

Later in the article, it talks about Wisconsin's good wins and bad losses. Its 2 bad losses? Penn State and Marquette.

Ugh.

[The Sultan]

Agree but MU hired the coach who was one of our not many Choices since Buzz, Shaka and others viewed our place in the conference as not as high as it was in the Old Big East. Obviously a coach makes a difference and MU probably knows that. But who can MU get to coach us do you have any ideas
Agree The Conference change was a home run for Villanova but not for MU with no NCAA wins. Am guessing MU knows a coach is important but could not get anyone better we used Rivers help to get Wojo, although I would of hired someone else but there were not many choices. Who should MU hire today

The bolded is all correlation and not causation.

[Eye]

Two things off recent posts.

Dukiet era was a fair amount worse. Went to a game in early December of '89 (early KO 1st year) and the students I was sitting around thought I was weird to actually have an interest in who won the game.

With DePaul seemingly making a change, would any team in the league trade coaches with MU right now? Maybe not.