Newcomer Impact Rankings

[The Sultan]

You can't make this case, largely because you don't know the quality of the player that we would take to fill the empty scholarship.

There is always going to be the possibility that this year's team is helped by filling all available scholarships.  Not saying it's a huge possibility--but it's not zero as would be the case if we left the scholarship open.

It won't challenge existing players for playing time. It won't become a breakout player, late bloomer, or hidden gem.  It won't give you any surprisingly strong performance off the bench. It won't help you out if you wind up with injuries. It won't come off the bench if you get into foul trouble. 

Filling available scholarships give you some chance--albeit small--that you solve a problem on this year's team.

Holding it for a mid-year transfer means that players won't possibly help until the middle of next season.

You are right. I am not 100% certain that "taking projects and moving on if they don't pan out," which is what JJJJ specifically said, with a 12th or 13th would make us significantly better.

Right now it's 99.9% certain.

[4everwarriors]

Duke won a national title with 8 scholarship players in 2015.

Clearly, the more scholarship players you have, the better your team will be.

Imagine how good Duke could've been if they didn't waste 5 scholarships that year.  They could've actually won something.

We'll never have 13 scholarship players any where near worthy of the 8 they had in 2015, hey?

[Uncle Rico]

We'll never have 13 scholarship players any where near worthy of the 8 they had in 2015, hey?

Depends on whether Marquette decides cheating is worth it.  I say it is but that's for another topic

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

agreed! ...and I forecast a 4-6 start to this season with blowout losses to UCLA and RED. Hence, insignificant mediocrity continues.

4-6 would be a worst case scenario start. That would mean we either get swept in our first four BEast games and beat Oklahoma State or we get swept in our meaningful non-conference games and start 1-3 in BEast. I'd be surprised that we didn't take at least one game from both groups. I think 6-4 and 5-5 are the most likely starts this season.

[4everwarriors]

Depends on whether Marquette decides cheating is worth it.  I say it is but that's for another topic

Oh, eye cee, Dook iz good 'cuz day cheet? And wee, wit hi moral standards, hired an asst. koach from Dook. Maebee, dey just cheet smarter and bedder dan us, hey?

[Uncle Rico]

Oh, eye cee, Dook iz good 'cuz day cheet? And wee, wit hi moral standards, hired an asst. koach from Dook. Maebee, dey just cheet smarter and bedder dan us, hey?

Sure looks like it, aina?

[Lennys Tap]

Depends on whether Marquette decides cheating is worth it.  I say it is but that's for another topic

Wow. They only thing stopping us (and I guess 30 or 40 other middle of the pack Power 6 basketball schools) from winning national championships is a little "Duke style" cheating? LOL.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

You are right. I am not 100% certain that "taking projects and moving on if they don't pan out," which is what JJJJ specifically said, with a 12th or 13th would make us significantly better.

Right now it's 99.9% certain.

Lol. 99.9% certain Wojo can't find a usable piece with the last two scholarships he continually punts?

If that's the case, there's another problem to add to the growing list.

[bilsu]

Lol. 99.9% certain Wojo can't find a usable piece with the last two scholarships he continually punts?

If that's the case, there's another problem to add to the growing list.

Buzz kept filling and those players kept transferring out. They never helped the program and just added to the transfer out issue we all complain about.

[wadesworld]

We won't win again until we start filling out our twelfth and thirteenth scholarships with the Brett Roseboros and Youssapha Mbaos of the world.  That's the difference between Buzz's Marquette program and Wojo's.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Buzz kept filling and those players kept transferring out. They never helped the program and just added to the transfer out issue we all complain about.

Orrrr ya know, Marquette could take on more guys like Dexter - not highly recruited or ranked - and red shirt them and see what happens.  Looks like they may have struck gold with Dexter.  Certainly won't strike gold with self-imposed scholarship sanctions.  If the guy doesn't pan out, move on.  This isn't 4th grade girls volleyball.

We won't win again until we start filling out our twelfth and thirteenth scholarships with the Brett Roseboros and Youssapha Mbaos of the world.  That's the difference between Buzz's Marquette program and Wojo's.

This is obviously major hyperbole, and a program certainly could be successful on only 10-11 scholarships.  I don't think filling the roster is the answer to all that ails Marquette - i've never said that.  I just think its really stupid to just punt scholarships year after year after year.  There is a reason the NCAA gives teams 13.  Its to use them.  There is also a reason why the NCAA takes them away when programs do bad things.  Because they're valuable! 

Again, you'll never find a diamond in the rough if you don't try.  Obviously it will lead to some turnover on the back of your roster - but who cares.  That's the way of CBB.  To say that there is a 99.9% chance Marquette can't find something useful with its 12th and 13th spots is more an indictment of the coaching staff than anything else. 

[brewcity77]

Orrrr ya know, Marquette could take on more guys like Dexter - not highly recruited or ranked - and red shirt them and see what happens.  Looks like they may have struck gold with Dexter.  Certainly won't strike gold with self-imposed scholarship sanctions.  If the guy doesn't pan out, move on.  This isn't 4th grade girls volleyball.

This is obviously major hyperbole, and a program certainly could be successful on only 10-11 scholarships.  I don't think filling the roster is the answer to all that ails Marquette - i've never said that.  I just think its really stupid to just punt scholarships year after year after year.  There is a reason the NCAA gives teams 13.  Its to use them.  There is also a reason why the NCAA takes them away when programs do bad things.  Because they're valuable! 

Again, you'll never find a diamond in the rough if you don't try.  Obviously it will lead to some turnover on the back of your roster - but who cares.  That's the way of CBB.  To say that there is a 99.9% chance Marquette can't find something useful with its 12th and 13th spots is more an indictment of the coaching staff than anything else.

Counterpoint: Using 10-11 scholarships allows for more roster satisfaction and roster flexibility. By ensuring one person is on redshirt (Perez in 2020, Akanno in 2019, McEwen in 2018, etc) it is easier to keep the active players happy with minutes as there are fewer active mouths to feed while also getting the redshirting player acclimated to the program and familiar with their teammates. And by keeping 1-2 scholarships open, you allow for midseason transfers. Some will work out (Luke Fischer) and some will not (Harry Froling) but the flexibility allows you to find those more polished diamonds in the rough that would be unavailable to you if you filled all 13 scholarships. In addition, it allows you to take late or reclassifying freshmen, such as Jarnell Stokes (2012 Tennessee) or the rumors that Mac Etienne may still consider a mid-season reclass.

Personally, I think 10 active scholarships, 1 redshirt, and 2 open is ideal. If you don't find anyone for the open ones, you can always give them to preferred walk-ons to help with team morale. You can do that while still finding room for longer shot recruits like Sacar Anim and Dexter Akanno.

[The Big East]

Orrrr ya know, Marquette could take on more guys like Dexter - not highly recruited or ranked - and red shirt them and see what happens.  Looks like they may have struck gold with Dexter.  Certainly won't strike gold with self-imposed scholarship sanctions.  If the guy doesn't pan out, move on.  This isn't 4th grade girls volleyball.

This is obviously major hyperbole, and a program certainly could be successful on only 10-11 scholarships.  I don't think filling the roster is the answer to all that ails Marquette - i've never said that.  I just think its really stupid to just punt scholarships year after year after year.  There is a reason the NCAA gives teams 13.  Its to use them.  There is also a reason why the NCAA takes them away when programs do bad things.  Because they're valuable! 

Again, you'll never find a diamond in the rough if you don't try.  Obviously it will lead to some turnover on the back of your roster - but who cares.  That's the way of CBB.  To say that there is a 99.9% chance Marquette can't find something useful with its 12th and 13th spots is more an indictment of the coaching staff than anything else.

I think your point about finding the diamond in the rough players and the value of using the end of the roster spots  for them is a good one.

However, the reality is finding quality projects  is easier said than done. That is because a) other programs are looking for the same thing and b) the players themselves have a lot of options. This is because some may want to play more  and not sit on the end of the bench and thereby go to a  lower program, or even go to DII.  For example, Ike Eke, a prototype project, had other high major offers and mid major offers. Obviously he got hurt so we don't know how his story would have played out.  On the other hand, Romaro Gill, took the lower route , went JUCO and then Seton Hall picked him up still as a project . Gill turned into a very good player his senior year.  Max Strus  of DePaul is a great example of a kid who took the  DII route.

[bilsu]

I think MU should use 13 scholarships. However, I see no reason to give one to a player that is not likely to contribute this year or in the future.

[The Sultan]

Lol. 99.9% certain Wojo can't find a usable piece with the last two scholarships he continually punts?

If that's the case, there's another problem to add to the growing list.

Yeah cause Buzz and other have always found useable pieces that turned seasons around with the 12th and 13th guys.

[Shooter McGavin]

There are good points on both sides of this argument.  No one should die on a hill today.

[The Equalizer]

Yeah cause Buzz and other have always found useable pieces that turned seasons around with the 12th and 13th guys.

Last two scholarships filled in 2009 were Jimmy Butler and Liam McMorrow:

Returning:
1. McNeal
2. James
3. Matthews
4. Burke
5. Hayward
6. Acker
7. Burke
8. Mbakwe
9. Hazel

Already Signed Incoming:
10. Fulce
11. Otule

Butler was 12 scholarship used at the time he signed.

12. Butler

McMorrow signed over the summer
13. McMorrow

Mbakwe just before the start of classes in the fall, making the final roster 12 scholarship players.

McMorrow didn't play at MU because of health, not lack of talent.  And we all know what Butler went on to become.

So do you still want to argue that is isn't worth filling the 12th or 13th scholarship slots? 

[bilsu]

Last two scholarships filled in 2009 were Jimmy Butler and Liam McMorrow:

Returning:
1. McNeal
2. James
3. Matthews
4. Burke
5. Hayward
6. Acker
7. Burke
8. Mbakwe
9. Hazel

Already Signed Incoming:
10. Fulce
11. Otule

Butler was 12 scholarship used at the time he signed.

12. Butler

McMorrow signed over the summer
13. McMorrow

Mbakwe just before the start of classes in the fall, making the final roster 12 scholarship players.

McMorrow didn't play at MU because of health, not lack of talent.  And we all know what Butler went on to become.

So do you still want to argue that is isn't worth filling the 12th or 13th scholarship slots?

I have to believe Buzz felt Butler was a contributor. The point is you fill the scholarships with players that can help. Filling them with fill in players provides little benefit.

[tower912]

Last two scholarships filled in 2009 were Jimmy Butler and Liam McMorrow:

Returning:
1. McNeal
2. James
3. Matthews
4. Burke
5. Hayward
6. Acker
7. Burke
8. Mbakwe
9. Hazel

Already Signed Incoming:
10. Fulce
11. Otule

Butler was 12 scholarship used at the time he signed.

12. Butler

McMorrow signed over the summer
13. McMorrow

Mbakwe just before the start of classes in the fall, making the final roster 12 scholarship players.

McMorrow didn't play at MU because of health, not lack of talent.  And we all know what Butler went on to become.

So do you still want to argue that is isn't worth filling the 12th or 13th scholarship slots?

Listed Burke twice.   Wasn't THAT good.

[Pakuni]

I have to believe Buzz felt Butler was a contributor. The point is you fill the scholarships with players that can help. Filling them with fill in players provides little benefit.

If I'm not mistaken, Butler was a late add made possible when a scholie opened up due to Scott Christopherson transferring. So, I'm not sure he qualifies for this discussion.

[jesmu84]

Last two scholarships filled in 2009 were Jimmy Butler and Liam McMorrow:

Returning:
1. McNeal
2. James
3. Matthews
4. Burke
5. Hayward
6. Acker
7. Burke
8. Mbakwe
9. Hazel

Already Signed Incoming:
10. Fulce
11. Otule

Butler was 12 scholarship used at the time he signed.

12. Butler

McMorrow signed over the summer
13. McMorrow

Mbakwe just before the start of classes in the fall, making the final roster 12 scholarship players.

McMorrow didn't play at MU because of health, not lack of talent.  And we all know what Butler went on to become.

So do you still want to argue that is isn't worth filling the 12th or 13th scholarship slots?

Exception proves the rule?

[wadesworld]

Last two scholarships filled in 2009 were Jimmy Butler and Liam McMorrow:

Returning:
1. McNeal
2. James
3. Matthews
4. Burke
5. Hayward
6. Acker
7. Burke
8. Mbakwe
9. Hazel

Already Signed Incoming:
10. Fulce
11. Otule

Butler was 12 scholarship used at the time he signed.

12. Butler

McMorrow signed over the summer
13. McMorrow

Mbakwe just before the start of classes in the fall, making the final roster 12 scholarship players.

McMorrow didn't play at MU because of health, not lack of talent.  And we all know what Butler went on to become.

So do you still want to argue that is isn't worth filling the 12th or 13th scholarship slots?

McMorrow averaged 3.6 points and 3 rebounds in his two seasons for Tennessee Tech.  I'm thinking he probably wouldn't have been much help at Marquette.

[MU82]

If I'm not mistaken, Butler was a late add made possible when a scholie opened up due to Scott Christopherson transferring. So, I'm not sure he qualifies for this discussion.

If this was the case, it would seem to Support keeping a scholly or two open, no?

[We R Final Four]

Thank you—that was exactly what I was thinking as well.

[The Equalizer]

If this was the case, it would seem to Support keeping a scholly or two open, no?

So you would have passed on Butler to keep that scholarship open?