MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: dajudge on October 20, 2020, 12:15:42 PM
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Per ESPN, Carton at 19; Garcia at 38
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/30139382/newcomer-impact-rankings-which-college-basketball-freshmen-transfers-lead-teams-2020-21
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Per ESPN, Carton at 19; Garcia at 38
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26382381/college-basketball-coaching-changes-2019-20
Impactful. Sorry.
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Impactful. Sorry.
And wrong link, but it keeps going to a coaching article. someone else hopefully can link it.
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I know it's not a competition but I hope that DJ ends up being a bigger impact than both Hausers unlike what is listed
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Do you expect Henry Ellenson-type impact for Dawson Garcia?
Before you answer, please remember Henry was:
Big East Freshman of the Year,
1st Team All-Big East,
Single-handedly beat the Vadgers in the Kohl Hole forcing Bo Ryan into hiding.
Averaged 17 & 9.7.
And, unfortunately, left after 1 season. But, that freshman season didn’t suck.
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I don't expect Dawson to put up numbers as good as Henry, but Dawson also has a significantly better team around him. I would hope Dawson doesn't shoot over three 3's a game at 28%
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Do you expect Henry Ellenson-type impact for Dawson Garcia?
Before you answer, please remember Henry was:
Big East Freshman of the Year,
1st Team All-Big East,
Averaged 17 & 9.7.
And, unfortunately, left after 1 season. But, that freshman season didn’t suck.
Better hope it's close because unless Koby gets back to Utah Koby we need a legit second player to Carton.
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Speaking on Henry, is his NBA career over? I am sure he can make a pretty penny playing overseas somewhere, but man. Sticking in the NBA is tough.
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Do you expect Henry Ellenson-type impact for Dawson Garcia?
Before you answer, please remember Henry was:
Big East Freshman of the Year,
1st Team All-Big East,
Averaged 17 & 9.7.
And, unfortunately, left after 1 season. But, that freshman season didn’t suck.
No. The pieces around Dawson are better than they were around Henry, and I think Henry was a little better at this stage of their careers. I expect Dawson to be All Freshman and maybe an Honorable Mention All Big East player. My guess is he'll average like 12 points and 6 rebounds per game.
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Carton is the guy.
But if Akanno is half as good as he looked in those summer mixtapes, he could be an awesome weapon. If he could get 10 PPG out of Dexter, this team looks muchhhhhh better.
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Carton is the guy.
But if Akanno is half as good as he looked in those summer mixtapes, he could be an awesome weapon. If he could get 10 PPG out of Dexter, this team looks muchhhhhh better.
Agreed. He's had a bit of hype surrounding him. I hope Dexter can step in and provide early help. Losing Bailey hurts a bit, but for some reason I'm not that concerned about losing him.
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Speaking on Henry, is his NBA career over? I am sure he can make a pretty penny playing overseas somewhere, but man. Sticking in the NBA is tough.
He was having a pretty solid G-League season before it was shut down. It's an uphill battle for him to get back, but I wouldn't be surprised if he resurfaces down the road.
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So we ended up using only 11 scholarships this year, right?
Seniors: John, Cain and McEwen
Juniors: Elliott
Sophomores: Carton, Torrence
Freshman: Lewis, Akanno, Idhodaro, Garcia
Redshirt: Perez
Theoretically then have room for 2 mid season transfers.
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Impactful. Sorry.
And wrong link, but it keeps going to a coaching article. someone else hopefully can link it.
Here's the link:
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/30139382/newcomer-impact-rankings-which-college-basketball-freshmen-transfers-lead-teams-2020-21
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Carton and Garcia are rated as the Top 2 in the entire Big East.
Also notable is Nicolet High product Jalen Johnson at #8 at Duke.
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I think Jalen only played at Nicolet for his junior year.
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No, played as a senior as well, cameback
From prep school
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So we ended up using only 11 scholarships this year, right?
Seniors: John, Cain and McEwen
Juniors: Elliott
Sophomores: Carton, Torrence
Freshman: Lewis, Akanno, Idhodaro, Garcia
Redshirt: Perez
Theoretically then have room for 2 mid season transfers.
I am assuming the walk on that was given a scholarhip last yer will alos get one this year. That would leave one scholarship open.
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I would be extremely surprised to see a mid year transfer unless it is a very high caliber player. Too much potential for roster congestion with the extra years of eligibility out there.
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Better hope it's close because unless Koby gets back to Utah Koby we need a legit second player to Carton.
I'll say it again. I'm excited about this team.
We have more than enough depth at guard with Dexter, Symir, Greg, Koby and DJ.
Our wings with Justin, Oso and Dawson are really good and I'm optimistic that Dawson and Oso will be making us ask, "Henry Who?"
If Jamil Cain plays consistently, we'll be dynamite.
There are a lot of really good parts here. Top 3 finish in the Big East!!!!!!!
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So we ended up using only 11 scholarships this year, right?
Seniors: John, Cain and McEwen
Juniors: Elliott
Sophomores: Carton, Torrence
Freshman: Lewis, Akanno, Idhodaro, Garcia
Redshirt: Perez
Theoretically then have room for 2 mid season transfers.
I think I read that they gave Gardiner a scholly.
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I would be extremely surprised to see a mid year transfer unless it is a very high caliber player. Too much potential for roster congestion with the extra years of eligibility out there.
Is this really happening? And does it only apply to seniors?
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Is this really happening? And does it only apply to seniors?
Hasn't happened yet but sounds like a #donedeal. The official language isn't out yet but the understanding is that it applies to anyone on a roster this season
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I think I read that they gave Gardiner a scholly.
Thanks.
But dumb.
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Thanks.
But dumb.
It is hard to find quality scout team players. Many quit after a year or two. I think a component of the Badgers success over the years has been their ability to retain their preferred walk on by giving them scholarships at some point.
Gardiner is now 6-7 230 ,and clearly plays an effective role in practice. So the coaches feel it is worth giving a scholarship to keep him around.
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It's easier for UW because their scout players only pay in-state tuition.
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It is hard to find quality scout team players. Many quit after a year or two. I think a component of the Badgers success over the years has been their ability to retain their preferred walk on by giving them scholarships at some point.
Gardiner is now 6-7 230 ,and clearly plays an effective role in practice. So the coaches feel it is worth giving a scholarship to keep him around.
I think it's probably more likely that they realize they almost certainly won't fill 2 scholarships in season with better players, so they want to reward the walk on for his hard work. I don't think Wojo and staff are losing sleep worrying about how to ensure Gardiner is going to stay on the roster, and what they'll do if he quits the team.
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I think it's probably more likely that they realize they almost certainly won't fill 2 scholarships in season with better players, so they want to reward the walk on for his hard work. I don't think Wojo and staff are losing sleep worrying about how to ensure Gardiner is going to stay on the roster, and what they'll do if he quits the team.
I'd just rather fill those spots with guys that can turn into something or fill a role. That's it. We're a couple injuries away from being super duper thin again with only 10 eligible scholarship players.
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I'd just rather fill those spots with guys that can turn into something or fill a role. That's it. We're a couple injuries away from being super duper thin again with only 10 eligible scholarship players.
You say this every year. They aren't going to fill scholarships for the sake of filling them, especially with unknowns affecting roster size, transfers, etc.
They aren't going to take two mid year transfers. Throwing one at a walk-on is not worthy of concern.
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You say this every year. They aren't going to fill scholarships for the sake of filling them, especially with unknowns affecting roster size, transfers, etc.
They aren't going to take two mid year transfers. Throwing one at a walk-on is not worthy of concern.
This. And building on it, if somehow the stars align and there are two mid-season transfers that we take, would there really be much backlash about a former walk-on getting buzz cut? It might not be great optics, but it's not like it's going to effect recruiting the way the Newbill situation did.
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You say this every year. They aren't going to fill scholarships for the sake of filling them, especially with unknowns affecting roster size, transfers, etc.
They aren't going to take two mid year transfers. Throwing one at a walk-on is not worthy of concern.
And I am going to keep saying it. Burning scholarships is stupid way to run a program. Disagree if you like. I will die on that hill.
Take grad transfers if you're worried about future roster construction. Take on projects and move on if they don't pan out.
MU is 2 injuries away from playing with 8 guys, 6 of could be underclassman and 4 of which have never played a minute of college basketball. Just seem unnecessary and feels very 2014ish. A good way to build a not very good team.
Certainly Bailey bailing is part of the reason we're here, but Wojo has a trend of doing this, and he certainly doesn't deserve much benefit of the doubt at this point.
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This. And building on it, if somehow the stars align and there are two mid-season transfers that we take, would there really be much backlash about a former walk-on getting buzz cut? It might not be great optics, but it's not like it's going to effect recruiting the way the Newbill situation did.
Scholarships can't be filled for a partial year. So even if someone leaves mid year, they can't use that scholarship for half a year.
Regardless, they aren't taking two mid year transfers. I can't think of a circumstance when that has happened previously. And while I am certain it has happened somewhere at sometime, it's not a scenario worthy of planning for.
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And I am going to keep saying it. Burning scholarships is stupid way to run a program. Disagree if you like. I will die on that hill.
Bitching about something that has not really been a problem is a hill you can die on.
Congrats.
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Bitching about something that has not really been a problem is a hill you can die on.
Congrats.
lol, not been a problem? Marquette hasn't won an NCAA game since 2013. I'd say that's a problem. 51-57 in Big East games in Wojo's tenure. I'd say that's a problem. Not winning a single NCAA game with 4 years of Markus Howard? Again, a problem.
But feel free to continue to believe Wojo and Co can do no wrong if you'd like!!!
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Scholarships can't be filled for a partial year. So even if someone leaves mid year, they can't use that scholarship for half a year.
Regardless, they aren't taking two mid year transfers. I can't think of a circumstance when that has happened previously. And while I am certain it has happened somewhere at sometime, it's not a scenario worthy of planning for.
Didn't we take Froling after Traci left? Or did we already have another scholarship available, or do I have my timeline screwed up?
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Didn't we take Froling after Traci left? Or did we already have another scholarship available, or do I have my timeline screwed up?
Had an opening. Each of your 13 scholarships can only be used 1x per year.
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lol, not been a problem? Marquette hasn't won an NCAA game since 2013. I'd say that's a problem. 51-57 in Big East games in Wojo's tenure. I'd say that's a problem. Not winning a single NCAA game with 4 years of Markus Howard? Again, a problem.
But feel free to continue to believe Wojo and Co can do no wrong if you'd like!!!
Those are problems.
None of those problems would be fixed by filling a 12th or 13th scholarship.
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Had an opening. Each of your 13 scholarships can only be used 1x per year.
My mistake then. I still don't think that filling all 13 just to fill all 13 is a useful tool, especially with the way that the transfer market is trending.
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Duke won a national title with 8 scholarship players in 2015.
Clearly, the more scholarship players you have, the better your team will be.
Imagine how good Duke could've been if they didn't waste 5 scholarships that year. They could've actually won something.
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Duke won a national title with 8 scholarship players in 2015.
Clearly, the more scholarship players you have, the better your team will be.
Imagine how good Duke could've been if they didn't waste 5 scholarships that year. They could've actually won something.
Duke's 2015 team had 10 scholarship players, 8 of which went on to play in the NBA, and 4 of which were High School All-Americans.
Jahlil Okafor
Quinn Cook
Justise Winslow
Tyus Jones
Amile Jefferson
Matt Jones
Grayson Allen
Rasheed Sulaimon
Marshall Plumlee
If we had a roster like that, we wouldn't need to look at mid-season transfers.
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It is hard to find quality scout team players. Many quit after a year or two. I think a component of the Badgers success over the years has been their ability to retain their preferred walk on by giving them scholarships at some point.
Gardiner is now 6-7 230 ,and clearly plays an effective role in practice. So the coaches feel it is worth giving a scholarship to keep him around.
Plus Tax
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Little does ESPN know Dexter about to pop off
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Duke's 2015 team had 10 scholarship players, 8 of which went on to play in the NBA, and 4 of which were High School All-Americans.
Jahlil Okafor
Quinn Cook
Justise Winslow
Tyus Jones
Amile Jefferson
Matt Jones
Grayson Allen
Rasheed Sulaimon
Marshall Plumlee
If we had a roster like that, we wouldn't need to look at mid-season transfers.
That's a list of nine, and Sulaimon left the team midseason. So they had 8 scholarship players and won a National Title.
I agree, if we had a roster like that we wouldn't need to look at mid-season transfers, but we probably would look at them given that they'd sit out and then be available for the following season.
But that's all the point. You don't need 13 scholarship basketball players. You need very good players that fit your program. You don't just take any guy who will accept your scholarship just to fill 13 scholarships because you're allowed to.
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That's a list of nine, and Sulaimon left the team midseason. So they had 8 scholarship players and won a National Title.
I agree, if we had a roster like that we wouldn't need to look at mid-season transfers, but we probably would look at them given that they'd sit out and then be available for the following season.
But that's all the point. You don't need 13 scholarship basketball players. You need very good players that fit your program. You don't just take any guy who will accept your scholarship just to fill 13 scholarships because you're allowed to.
Splitting hairs a bit, but Duke also had Semi Ojeleye on that team. He was left off my original list. So they went into the season with 10.
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Duke's 2015 team had 10 scholarship players, 8 of which went on to play in the NBA, and 4 of which were High School All-Americans.
Jahlil Okafor
Quinn Cook
Justise Winslow
Tyus Jones
Amile Jefferson
Matt Jones
Grayson Allen
Rasheed Sulaimon
Marshall Plumlee
If we had a roster like that, we wouldn't need to look at mid-season transfers.
That's not the point. J5 thinks we should just take bodies to get up to 13 scholarship players every year and not waste scholarships on rewarding a walk-on. He makes the same complaint every year, even though it's not been a problem.
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That's not the point. J5 thinks we should just take bodies to get up to 13 scholarship players every year and not waste scholarships on rewarding a walk-on. He makes the same complaint every year, even though it's not been a problem.
I wasn't addressing JJJ, I was disputing BLM's exaggerated assertion that Duke won a Natty with only 8 scholarship players.
As it turns out, I think we all would agree that if you have a roster of 8 future NBA players, you can burn some schollies. If you have a roster like we do, then what you do with your last couple schollies is a more legit debate.
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That's not the point. J5 thinks we should just take bodies to get up to 13 scholarship players every year and not waste scholarships on rewarding a walk-on. He makes the same complaint every year, even though it's not been a problem.
I have never said Marquette should "just take bodies". I've said we should use the 13 very valuable scholarships that the NCAA awards you annually.
I am open to taking on projects that could turn into something as upperclassmen. I am open to bringing in more transfers. I am open to bringing in more role playing grad transfers. I am not saying just fill them with garbage - clearly - as what started this conversation was my comment that handing them to a walk on is a waste! I am saying using all 13 of your spots seems like a wise thing to do as you can strike gold. I am also not going to lose sleep if using 13 scholarships annually means you need to make room by cutting the fat off your roster each year. Tough luck, but such is life in highly competitive sports. This isn't 4th grade girls volleyball. There are plenty of other universities that would love to get Marquette's cast offs. I don't sit in some high and mighty chair thinking that cutting college basketball players is some crime.
I like how you keep pointing out that I bring this up each year, yet each year you clearly want to argue about it. I don't think expecting a program to do their best to fill their allocated scholarships each year with the best players they can is some monumental ask. This won't be the first time Wojo has sported a team that is a couple injuries away from absolute disaster. But carry on like Wojo does no wrong, FBM!
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lol, not been a problem? Marquette hasn't won an NCAA game since 2013. I'd say that's a problem. 51-57 in Big East games in Wojo's tenure. I'd say that's a problem. Not winning a single NCAA game with 4 years of Markus Howard? Again, a problem.
But feel free to continue to believe Wojo and Co can do no wrong if you'd like!!!
agreed! ...and I forecast a 4-6 start to this season with blowout losses to UCLA and RED. Hence, insignificant mediocrity continues.
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agreed! ...and I forecast a 4-6 start to this season with blowout losses to UCLA and RED. Hence, insignificant mediocrity continues.
Right. None of those are fixed by filling all scholarships, which was the context of the conversation.
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Right. None of those are fixed by filling all scholarships, which was the context of the conversation.
You can't make this case, largely because you don't know the quality of the player that we would take to fill the empty scholarship.
There is always going to be the possibility that this year's team is helped by filling all available scholarships. Not saying it's a huge possibility--but it's not zero as would be the case if we left the scholarship open.
It won't challenge existing players for playing time. It won't become a breakout player, late bloomer, or hidden gem. It won't give you any surprisingly strong performance off the bench. It won't help you out if you wind up with injuries. It won't come off the bench if you get into foul trouble.
Filling available scholarships give you some chance--albeit small--that you solve a problem on this year's team.
Holding it for a mid-year transfer means that players won't possibly help until the middle of next season.
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You can't make this case, largely because you don't know the quality of the player that we would take to fill the empty scholarship.
There is always going to be the possibility that this year's team is helped by filling all available scholarships. Not saying it's a huge possibility--but it's not zero as would be the case if we left the scholarship open.
It won't challenge existing players for playing time. It won't become a breakout player, late bloomer, or hidden gem. It won't give you any surprisingly strong performance off the bench. It won't help you out if you wind up with injuries. It won't come off the bench if you get into foul trouble.
Filling available scholarships give you some chance--albeit small--that you solve a problem on this year's team.
Holding it for a mid-year transfer means that players won't possibly help until the middle of next season.
You are right. I am not 100% certain that “taking projects and moving on if they don’t pan out,” which is what JJJJ specifically said, with a 12th or 13th would make us significantly better.
Right now it’s 99.9% certain.
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Duke won a national title with 8 scholarship players in 2015.
Clearly, the more scholarship players you have, the better your team will be.
Imagine how good Duke could've been if they didn't waste 5 scholarships that year. They could've actually won something.
We'll never have 13 scholarship players any where near worthy of the 8 they had in 2015, hey?
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We'll never have 13 scholarship players any where near worthy of the 8 they had in 2015, hey?
Depends on whether Marquette decides cheating is worth it. I say it is but that’s for another topic
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agreed! ...and I forecast a 4-6 start to this season with blowout losses to UCLA and RED. Hence, insignificant mediocrity continues.
4-6 would be a worst case scenario start. That would mean we either get swept in our first four BEast games and beat Oklahoma State or we get swept in our meaningful non-conference games and start 1-3 in BEast. I'd be surprised that we didn't take at least one game from both groups. I think 6-4 and 5-5 are the most likely starts this season.
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Depends on whether Marquette decides cheating is worth it. I say it is but that’s for another topic
Oh, eye cee, Dook iz good 'cuz day cheet? And wee, wit hi moral standards, hired an asst. koach from Dook. Maebee, dey just cheet smarter and bedder dan us, hey?
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Oh, eye cee, Dook iz good 'cuz day cheet? And wee, wit hi moral standards, hired an asst. koach from Dook. Maebee, dey just cheet smarter and bedder dan us, hey?
Sure looks like it, aina?
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Depends on whether Marquette decides cheating is worth it. I say it is but that’s for another topic
Wow. They only thing stopping us (and I guess 30 or 40 other middle of the pack Power 6 basketball schools) from winning national championships is a little “Duke style” cheating? LOL.
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You are right. I am not 100% certain that “taking projects and moving on if they don’t pan out,” which is what JJJJ specifically said, with a 12th or 13th would make us significantly better.
Right now it’s 99.9% certain.
Lol. 99.9% certain Wojo can’t find a usable piece with the last two scholarships he continually punts?
If that’s the case, there’s another problem to add to the growing list.
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Lol. 99.9% certain Wojo can’t find a usable piece with the last two scholarships he continually punts?
If that’s the case, there’s another problem to add to the growing list.
Buzz kept filling and those players kept transferring out. They never helped the program and just added to the transfer out issue we all complain about.
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We won't win again until we start filling out our twelfth and thirteenth scholarships with the Brett Roseboros and Youssapha Mbaos of the world. That's the difference between Buzz's Marquette program and Wojo's.
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Buzz kept filling and those players kept transferring out. They never helped the program and just added to the transfer out issue we all complain about.
Orrrr ya know, Marquette could take on more guys like Dexter - not highly recruited or ranked - and red shirt them and see what happens. Looks like they may have struck gold with Dexter. Certainly won't strike gold with self-imposed scholarship sanctions. If the guy doesn't pan out, move on. This isn't 4th grade girls volleyball.
We won't win again until we start filling out our twelfth and thirteenth scholarships with the Brett Roseboros and Youssapha Mbaos of the world. That's the difference between Buzz's Marquette program and Wojo's.
This is obviously major hyperbole, and a program certainly could be successful on only 10-11 scholarships. I don't think filling the roster is the answer to all that ails Marquette - i've never said that. I just think its really stupid to just punt scholarships year after year after year. There is a reason the NCAA gives teams 13. Its to use them. There is also a reason why the NCAA takes them away when programs do bad things. Because they're valuable!
Again, you'll never find a diamond in the rough if you don't try. Obviously it will lead to some turnover on the back of your roster - but who cares. That's the way of CBB. To say that there is a 99.9% chance Marquette can't find something useful with its 12th and 13th spots is more an indictment of the coaching staff than anything else.
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Orrrr ya know, Marquette could take on more guys like Dexter - not highly recruited or ranked - and red shirt them and see what happens. Looks like they may have struck gold with Dexter. Certainly won't strike gold with self-imposed scholarship sanctions. If the guy doesn't pan out, move on. This isn't 4th grade girls volleyball.
This is obviously major hyperbole, and a program certainly could be successful on only 10-11 scholarships. I don't think filling the roster is the answer to all that ails Marquette - i've never said that. I just think its really stupid to just punt scholarships year after year after year. There is a reason the NCAA gives teams 13. Its to use them. There is also a reason why the NCAA takes them away when programs do bad things. Because they're valuable!
Again, you'll never find a diamond in the rough if you don't try. Obviously it will lead to some turnover on the back of your roster - but who cares. That's the way of CBB. To say that there is a 99.9% chance Marquette can't find something useful with its 12th and 13th spots is more an indictment of the coaching staff than anything else.
Counterpoint: Using 10-11 scholarships allows for more roster satisfaction and roster flexibility. By ensuring one person is on redshirt (Perez in 2020, Akanno in 2019, McEwen in 2018, etc) it is easier to keep the active players happy with minutes as there are fewer active mouths to feed while also getting the redshirting player acclimated to the program and familiar with their teammates. And by keeping 1-2 scholarships open, you allow for midseason transfers. Some will work out (Luke Fischer) and some will not (Harry Froling) but the flexibility allows you to find those more polished diamonds in the rough that would be unavailable to you if you filled all 13 scholarships. In addition, it allows you to take late or reclassifying freshmen, such as Jarnell Stokes (2012 Tennessee) or the rumors that Mac Etienne may still consider a mid-season reclass.
Personally, I think 10 active scholarships, 1 redshirt, and 2 open is ideal. If you don't find anyone for the open ones, you can always give them to preferred walk-ons to help with team morale. You can do that while still finding room for longer shot recruits like Sacar Anim and Dexter Akanno.
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Orrrr ya know, Marquette could take on more guys like Dexter - not highly recruited or ranked - and red shirt them and see what happens. Looks like they may have struck gold with Dexter. Certainly won't strike gold with self-imposed scholarship sanctions. If the guy doesn't pan out, move on. This isn't 4th grade girls volleyball.
This is obviously major hyperbole, and a program certainly could be successful on only 10-11 scholarships. I don't think filling the roster is the answer to all that ails Marquette - i've never said that. I just think its really stupid to just punt scholarships year after year after year. There is a reason the NCAA gives teams 13. Its to use them. There is also a reason why the NCAA takes them away when programs do bad things. Because they're valuable!
Again, you'll never find a diamond in the rough if you don't try. Obviously it will lead to some turnover on the back of your roster - but who cares. That's the way of CBB. To say that there is a 99.9% chance Marquette can't find something useful with its 12th and 13th spots is more an indictment of the coaching staff than anything else.
I think your point about finding the diamond in the rough players and the value of using the end of the roster spots for them is a good one.
However, the reality is finding quality projects is easier said than done. That is because a) other programs are looking for the same thing and b) the players themselves have a lot of options. This is because some may want to play more and not sit on the end of the bench and thereby go to a lower program, or even go to DII. For example, Ike Eke, a prototype project, had other high major offers and mid major offers. Obviously he got hurt so we don't know how his story would have played out. On the other hand, Romaro Gill, took the lower route , went JUCO and then Seton Hall picked him up still as a project . Gill turned into a very good player his senior year. Max Strus of DePaul is a great example of a kid who took the DII route.
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I think MU should use 13 scholarships. However, I see no reason to give one to a player that is not likely to contribute this year or in the future.
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Lol. 99.9% certain Wojo can’t find a usable piece with the last two scholarships he continually punts?
If that’s the case, there’s another problem to add to the growing list.
Yeah cause Buzz and other have always found useable pieces that turned seasons around with the 12th and 13th guys.
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There are good points on both sides of this argument. No one should die on a hill today.
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Yeah cause Buzz and other have always found useable pieces that turned seasons around with the 12th and 13th guys.
Last two scholarships filled in 2009 were Jimmy Butler and Liam McMorrow:
Returning:
1. McNeal
2. James
3. Matthews
4. Burke
5. Hayward
6. Acker
7. Burke
8. Mbakwe
9. Hazel
Already Signed Incoming:
10. Fulce
11. Otule
Butler was 12 scholarship used at the time he signed.
12. Butler
McMorrow signed over the summer
13. McMorrow
Mbakwe just before the start of classes in the fall, making the final roster 12 scholarship players.
McMorrow didn't play at MU because of health, not lack of talent. And we all know what Butler went on to become.
So do you still want to argue that is isn't worth filling the 12th or 13th scholarship slots?
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Last two scholarships filled in 2009 were Jimmy Butler and Liam McMorrow:
Returning:
1. McNeal
2. James
3. Matthews
4. Burke
5. Hayward
6. Acker
7. Burke
8. Mbakwe
9. Hazel
Already Signed Incoming:
10. Fulce
11. Otule
Butler was 12 scholarship used at the time he signed.
12. Butler
McMorrow signed over the summer
13. McMorrow
Mbakwe just before the start of classes in the fall, making the final roster 12 scholarship players.
McMorrow didn't play at MU because of health, not lack of talent. And we all know what Butler went on to become.
So do you still want to argue that is isn't worth filling the 12th or 13th scholarship slots?
I have to believe Buzz felt Butler was a contributor. The point is you fill the scholarships with players that can help. Filling them with fill in players provides little benefit.
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Last two scholarships filled in 2009 were Jimmy Butler and Liam McMorrow:
Returning:
1. McNeal
2. James
3. Matthews
4. Burke
5. Hayward
6. Acker
7. Burke
8. Mbakwe
9. Hazel
Already Signed Incoming:
10. Fulce
11. Otule
Butler was 12 scholarship used at the time he signed.
12. Butler
McMorrow signed over the summer
13. McMorrow
Mbakwe just before the start of classes in the fall, making the final roster 12 scholarship players.
McMorrow didn't play at MU because of health, not lack of talent. And we all know what Butler went on to become.
So do you still want to argue that is isn't worth filling the 12th or 13th scholarship slots?
Listed Burke twice. Wasn't THAT good.
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I have to believe Buzz felt Butler was a contributor. The point is you fill the scholarships with players that can help. Filling them with fill in players provides little benefit.
If I'm not mistaken, Butler was a late add made possible when a scholie opened up due to Scott Christopherson transferring. So, I'm not sure he qualifies for this discussion.
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Last two scholarships filled in 2009 were Jimmy Butler and Liam McMorrow:
Returning:
1. McNeal
2. James
3. Matthews
4. Burke
5. Hayward
6. Acker
7. Burke
8. Mbakwe
9. Hazel
Already Signed Incoming:
10. Fulce
11. Otule
Butler was 12 scholarship used at the time he signed.
12. Butler
McMorrow signed over the summer
13. McMorrow
Mbakwe just before the start of classes in the fall, making the final roster 12 scholarship players.
McMorrow didn't play at MU because of health, not lack of talent. And we all know what Butler went on to become.
So do you still want to argue that is isn't worth filling the 12th or 13th scholarship slots?
Exception proves the rule?
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Last two scholarships filled in 2009 were Jimmy Butler and Liam McMorrow:
Returning:
1. McNeal
2. James
3. Matthews
4. Burke
5. Hayward
6. Acker
7. Burke
8. Mbakwe
9. Hazel
Already Signed Incoming:
10. Fulce
11. Otule
Butler was 12 scholarship used at the time he signed.
12. Butler
McMorrow signed over the summer
13. McMorrow
Mbakwe just before the start of classes in the fall, making the final roster 12 scholarship players.
McMorrow didn't play at MU because of health, not lack of talent. And we all know what Butler went on to become.
So do you still want to argue that is isn't worth filling the 12th or 13th scholarship slots?
McMorrow averaged 3.6 points and 3 rebounds in his two seasons for Tennessee Tech. I'm thinking he probably wouldn't have been much help at Marquette.
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If I'm not mistaken, Butler was a late add made possible when a scholie opened up due to Scott Christopherson transferring. So, I'm not sure he qualifies for this discussion.
If this was the case, it would seem to Support keeping a scholly or two open, no?
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Thank you—that was exactly what I was thinking as well.
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If this was the case, it would seem to Support keeping a scholly or two open, no?
So you would have passed on Butler to keep that scholarship open?
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So you would have passed on Butler to keep that scholarship open?
This is a circular argument. He is saying that he is glad the scholarship was open in order to pick up what he thought would be an impact player like Butler.
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So you would have passed on Butler to keep that scholarship open?
The point is, Butler wasn't some guy MU recruited just to fill out the 12th/13th spot on the roster. He was recruited because, with Christopherson leaving, they needed a wing player to come in and be a part of the rotation.
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The point is, Butler wasn't some guy MU recruited just to fill out the 12th/13th spot on the roster. He was recruited because, with Christopherson leaving, they needed a wing player to come in and be a part of the rotation.
Right. He wasn't a project to cut if it didn't work out.
Look, I am not saying we should always leave scholarships open. I just don't need to return to the days of "hey let's recruit Yous Mbao and see how that works out." If you can find quality players for those scholarships, that's great. Otherwise, it just seems like a waste of resources with only miniscule upside.
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In the transfer era, having 13 kids on scholarship is ridiculous. Can not keep them all happy, sure, it is nice to take a prospect once in awhile, like Akanno, but more often then not they are like McMorrow or Mbao. If you are taking a prospect, nice to take a big like Kaminsky who obviously worked out for the Badgers
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In the transfer era, having 13 kids on scholarship is ridiculous. Can not keep them all happy, sure, it is nice to take a prospect once in awhile, like Akanno, but more often then not they are like McMorrow or Mbao. If you are taking a prospect, nice to take a big like Kaminsky who obviously worked out for the Badgers
Akanno was not highly rated, but that did not mean that Wojo did not think he could play. The fact that Wojo was willing to redshirt him would indicate that Wojo thought he had a good future.
Wojo has been very good identifying players early. The trouble he has had is that some of his early finds blew up and he ended up losing them to bigger programs.
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I saw Akanno last year in those scrimmages, thought enough that he could help, even more than Torrence. Thank DWade on this recruit. Every once in awhile you get lucky, Jimmy Butler, was an ad-on recruit, that worked.
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The point is, Butler wasn't some guy MU recruited just to fill out the 12th/13th spot on the roster. He was recruited because, with Christopherson leaving, they needed a wing player to come in and be a part of the rotation.
Except we already had Fulce coming in for that role.
And Christopherson was never going to play the wing--he was a 3 point sniper. The notion that we needed Butler to replace Christopherson in the rotation is just silly--they were completely different players.
And as it turned out, it was extremely fortunate that we had Butler because Fulce suffered a knee injury pre-season.
And that's the point. The empty scholarship saved for a mid-year transfer wouldn't have helped us at all when Fulce was injured. Butler did.
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This is really kind of a silly argument. It all depends on whether Buzz saw JFB as a "true project", i.e. Mbao, McMorrow, Ike level, or a back of the rotation type project like Dex, or Dawson. IIRC because of the lack of JC scouting there wasn't a ton of info widely available on him, so really the only one that can truly answer this question is Buzz, good luck getting him to pick up your call.
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Back to the topic at hand: I suspect that Carton and Dawson will have the most impact as newcomers.
...and we manage to have a season I will be watching to see how the players develop this year and if Wojo can coach team ball and not hero ball.
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Talent is there, sure young, so what, so is Kentucky and Duke every year. I do not expect the talent to be that good, but both coaches get the kids to play together. This year is on Wojo! You have talk about 2 kids maybe going to the pros and one kid who this summer who played against pros and fit in. Hope there is great improvement by February.
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Talent is there, sure young, so what, so is Kentucky and Duke every year. I do not expect the talent to be that good, but both coaches get the kids to play together. This year is on Wojo! You have talk about 2 kids maybe going to the pros and one kid who this summer who played against pros and fit in. Hope there is great improvement by February.
It is hard to quantify the effect of missing 14 days of practice on a young team. However, I have to believe it will negatively impact the start of the season.
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If I'm not mistaken, Butler was a late add made possible when a scholie opened up due to Scott Christopherson transferring. So, I'm not sure he qualifies for this discussion.
Buzz was exceptional at roster management. Balancing classes, adding in complementary parts to his system, taking a flier, and yes, making Buzz cuts.
In this instance, SC was moved along. He was a Crean recruit but not a fit for what Buzz wanted to do. The fact that he signed Jimmy late without a campus visit qualifies here to the discussion point.
Now, one knock on Buzz is he didn't recruit shooters. Scott was a shooter but Jimmy fit Buzz's system. Jimmy was a a raw talent, almost quit, and then finally was molded by Buzz. Yet, he has continued to peak each year in the NBA.
A strong case can be made that Jimmy was a late flier. Scoop wanted his schollie revoked as a source for this assessment.
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Buzz was exceptional at roster management. Balancing classes, adding in complementary parts to his system, taking a flier, and yes, making Buzz cuts.
In this instance, SC was moved along. He was a Crean recruit but not a fit for what Buzz wanted to do. The fact that he signed Jimmy late without a campus visit qualifies here to the discussion point.
Now, one knock on Buzz is he didn't recruit shooters. Scott was a shooter but Jimmy fit Buzz's system. Jimmy was a a raw talent, almost quit, and then finally was molded by Buzz. Yet, he has continued to peak each year in the NBA.
A strong case can be made that Jimmy was a late flier. Scoop wanted his schollie revoked as a source for this assessment.
I would have to say that Buzz was better at getting talent to fit his needs than in balancing classes per se.