2020-21 NFL Season

[The Sultan]

Packers apparently signing Tramon Williams.

[Mutaman]

Why did Czar Nicolas keep Rasputin around? Who knows?

Happy wife, happy life.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Packers apparently signing Tramon Williams.

Hmmm, what's Charles Woodson doing?

[Dr. Blackheart]

How do you get that job exactly? Get paid a small fortune, to not think, but just blurt out the most absurd thoughts.

I'm pretty sure I'm qualified for that, where can I sign up?

Apply to Scoop as they have moderator spots open.

[GooooMarquette]

Apply to Scoop as they have moderator spots open.

Dare to dream....

[The Sultan]

Hmmm, what's Charles Woodson doing?

I will forever have a soft spot for Tramon.  My one and only unrealistic called shot was his INT return against the Falcons in the playoffs.

[tower912]

No wonder Brees couldn't throw deep.   Played all year with a torn rotator cuff.   

[forgetful]

No wonder Brees couldn't throw deep.   Played all year with a torn rotator cuff.

The man had a pretty good year for playing with a torn rotator cuff, torn fascia in his foot, and then suffering 11 fractured ribs and a collapsed lung.

The guy is a legend. This is impressive.

Also, this is partially why Brady left NE, and went to TB. His only chance to have success is to be on a team that can keep him upright. NE's line wasn't going to cut it, TB had one of the best O-lines in the league. At their ages, they aren't mobile enough to avoid being hit, and can't take the hits.

[The Sultan]

Did Brees really give them the best chance to win with a torn rotator cuff?

[tower912]

Fluffy beat me to it.      The question is whether or not a younger, more mobile quarterback with normal arm strength would have served that team better.   

[Uncle Rico]

Did Brees really give them the best chance to win with a torn rotator cuff?

The honest answer is no

[Dr. Blackheart]

Fluffy beat me to it.      The question is whether or not a younger, more mobile quarterback with normal arm strength would have served that team better.

That quarterback couldn't beat out a TE for starter QB minutes when Brees was out.

[MUBurrow]

Did Brees really give them the best chance to win with a torn rotator cuff?

Nope that would be Jameis.  (Taysom fans don't @ me).  But benching Drew Brees for Jameis Winston midseason in a year that ends in anything less than a super bowl win cuts years off a coach's career.

[The Sultan]

Nope that would be Jameis.  (Taysom fans don't @ me).  But benching Drew Brees for Jameis Winston midseason in a year that ends in anything less than a super bowl win cuts years off a coach's career.

You think the Saints would have fired Sean Payton for that?  Highly doubtful.

My guess is that Payton was going down swinging with his guy no matter what.

[MUBurrow]

You think the Saints would have fired Sean Payton for that?  Highly doubtful.

My guess is that Payton was going down swinging with his guy no matter what.

Certainly not immediately, no.  But then Brees retires, New Orleans flails for a year or two trying to figure out if Jameis the answer or to draft a guy or whatever, and I think in the long run it goes on the pile of things that costs Payton an extra year or two to figure it out.  I'm more just saying that no one is going to really question Payton riding or dying with Brees, and he'd be putting himself out there to bench him for a not particularly popular Jameis Winston.

And in Payton's defense, who knows the vibe of the locker room, etc. There could be a bunch of soft reasons that sticking with a bruised and battered Brees was the right answer.  I don't blame him necessarily, but from a hard football skills standpoint, Jameis absolutely would have raised the offense's ceiling.

[Jockey]

Did Brees really give them the best chance to win with a torn rotator cuff?

They had no chance to win with an injured Brees. People in TB (and I) would say they had no chance to win with Winston, either.

[The Sultan]

Certainly not immediately, no.  But then Brees retires, New Orleans flails for a year or two trying to figure out if Jameis the answer or to draft a guy or whatever, and I think in the long run it goes on the pile of things that costs Payton an extra year or two to figure it out.  I'm more just saying that no one is going to really question Payton riding or dying with Brees, and he'd be putting himself out there to bench him for a not particularly popular Jameis Winston.

If Jameis doesn't work in the next couple of years, Payton could be out regardless.  I don't think this one decision would have any bearing on that.

And in Payton's defense, who knows the vibe of the locker room, etc. There could be a bunch of soft reasons that sticking with a bruised and battered Brees was the right answer.  I don't blame him necessarily, but from a hard football skills standpoint, Jameis absolutely would have raised the offense's ceiling.

I get that.  And that is why I think he was just sticking with him regardless.

[The Sultan]

They had no chance to win with an injured Brees. People in TB (and I) would say they had no chance to win with Winston, either.

Eh.  Higher ceiling, lower floor.  If your QB can't throw the ball 20 yards down the field, you aren't going very far.

[forgetful]

Eh.  Higher ceiling, lower floor.  If your QB can't throw the ball 20 yards down the field, you aren't going very far.

Brees still had a RTG of 106.4. No one on the NO roster can put up that type of efficiency with the lineup they put on the field this year. Thomas injured all year, and would have been on IR if it wasn't Brees last year.

They didn't have an O-line that could provide enough time for people to get open down field, and didn't have the receivers to do it either. Despite that, Brees put up the 6th best RTG amongst QBs. Better than Brady (102.2), and his TD long of the year (52 yards) also exceeded that of Brady (50 yards).

Brady couldn't through a TD longer than 50 yards with arguably the best receiver lineup in the league and one designed for a deep ball, all while behind one of the best offensive lines in the league.

This criticism of Brees and glorification of Brady isn't supported by data. Brees and Brady are both well past their prime, their long TDs of the year are amongst the worst in the league. But, their efficiency still makes them far far better options than their replacements.

Swap teams and give Brees the TB O-line and receiving corps, and give Brady the Saints. And Brees wins. That doesn't mean Brees is better than Brady or vice versa. It just means your actual team and the entirety of the situation matters a heck of a lot more than people think.

The idea that the Saints were better with Winston is nonsense. It would be equally nonsense to say they would be better without Thomas, who was also playing way below ability due to injuries.

[The Sultan]

Brees still had a RTG of 106.4. No one on the NO roster can put up that type of efficiency with the lineup they put on the field this year. Thomas injured all year, and would have been on IR if it wasn't Brees last year.

They didn't have an O-line that could provide enough time for people to get open down field, and didn't have the receivers to do it either. Despite that, Brees put up the 6th best RTG amongst QBs. Better than Brady (102.2), and his TD long of the year (52 yards) also exceeded that of Brady (50 yards).

Brady couldn't through a TD longer than 50 yards with arguably the best receiver lineup in the league and one designed for a deep ball, all while behind one of the best offensive lines in the league.

This criticism of Brees and glorification of Brady isn't supported by data. Brees and Brady are both well past their prime, their long TDs of the year are amongst the worst in the league. But, their efficiency still makes them far far better options than their replacements.

Swap teams and give Brees the TB O-line and receiving corps, and give Brady the Saints. And Brees wins. That doesn't mean Brees is better than Brady or vice versa. It just means your actual team and the entirety of the situation matters a heck of a lot more than people think.

The idea that the Saints were better with Winston is nonsense. It would be equally nonsense to say they would be better without Thomas, who was also playing way below ability due to injuries.

I didn't compare to Brady.  I also didn't say they were better.  I said they they had a higher ceiling and lower floor with Winston, which is undoubtedly true. If a QB can't throw the ball 20 yards downfield, they can't manage the game when they fall behind.  Which is exactly what happened.

[Jockey]

Eh.  Higher ceiling, lower floor.  If your QB can't throw the ball 20 yards down the field, you aren't going very far.

You're point is correct. The problem is that when Jamie's threw it more than 20 yards, it was often to the wrong team. That's why Hill started when Brees was hurt.

[CreightonWarrior]

RIP Ted Thompson. Passed away last night per Silverstein. Lots of frustration with his team building but he did draft Rodgers and got GB a super bowl.

[BM1090]

You're point is correct. The problem is that when Jamie's threw it more than 20 yards, it was often to the wrong team. That's why Hill started when Brees was hurt.

There was a very small chance they were coming back against TB if Jameis is inserted into the game. I doubt he would have been the difference. But everyone could see there was zero chance they were coming back with Brees.

[cheebs09]

RIP Ted Thompson. Passed away last night per Silverstein. Lots of frustration with his team building but he did draft Rodgers and got GB a super bowl.

Yup. He definitely had his process and it lead to the Packers being very good for a long time.

Very sad.

[Uncle Rico]

Yup. He definitely had his process and it lead to the Packers being very good for a long time.

Very sad.

I think history will look back at Ted Thompson quite fondly.