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Author Topic: 2020-21 NFL Season  (Read 247355 times)

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1275 on: January 05, 2021, 12:37:09 PM »
Two defensive players had to be held back from approaching Pederson.




I assume you haven’t played competitive sports.

Poor assumption on your part.


I don’t know. I feel when pre-season rolls around, this will all be in the past. People will be excited about their new draft pick that will hopefully give them the best chance to win in 2021.

Exactly.  No one is going to give a sh*t come summer.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Jockey

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1276 on: January 05, 2021, 12:55:48 PM »
I don’t know. I feel when pre-season rolls around, this will all be in the past. People will be excited about their new draft pick that will hopefully give them the best chance to win in 2021.

 First and foremost, it’s a business. We hear that all the time. The best business decision was for Philly to lose that game.

A lot of these reactions were heat of the moment. I think he’s more likely to lose the locker room for being 4-11-1 than how he coached in Week 17.

You may be right. I differ a bit from what you say.

I was listening to Boomer Esiason a few weeks ago and one thing he kept saying is "you always play to win". Of course, he was talking about the player's viewpoint. I think sometimes we forget how tough the play is in the NFL. These guys are out there putting their bodies on the line every play. Once they feel that the coach no longer has their backs in that effort, it causes damage to the team's psyche.

Eagles' players busted their a$$es trying to win the game and then the coach just said, "nevermind". I think that will be hard for the players to overcome.

Pakuni

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1277 on: January 05, 2021, 02:53:28 PM »
First and foremost, it’s a business. We hear that all the time. The best business decision was for Philly to lose that game.

Moving up a whopping three spots in the draft may be a slightly decent business decision for the franchise - though maybe not, given Eagles recent drafts - but it's far from a good business decision for Pederson. He damaged relationships with his top two QBs and several other veterans, tarnished his reputation around the league, and it's wishful thinking to believe it'll all be forgotten in a few months.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1278 on: January 05, 2021, 02:58:28 PM »
Moving up a whopping three spots in the draft may be a slightly decent business decision for the franchise - though maybe not, given Eagles recent drafts - but it's far from a good business decision for Pederson. He damaged relationships with his top two QBs and several other veterans, tarnished his reputation around the league, and it's wishful thinking to believe it'll all be forgotten in a few months.


Because he inserted the back up quarterback in the fourth quarter of the meaningless last game of the season?

Seriously, let's try to be less dramatic here.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Pakuni

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1279 on: January 05, 2021, 03:22:46 PM »

Because he inserted the back up quarterback in the fourth quarter of the meaningless last game of the season?

Seriously, let's try to be less dramatic here.

He didn't just insert the backup QB. He inserted a third-string QB who hadn't played a down in more than two years into a competitive game. He clearly was trying to lose.
It may have been meaningless to you, but it clearly wasn't to his players, or the rest of the league.
Not sure what I said that's dramatic, though. If you think that the reports that several Eagles players were and are pissed off about it - including direct quotes from Miles Sanders today - are meaningless drama, that's fine. Wrong, but fine.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 03:24:55 PM by Pakuni »

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1280 on: January 05, 2021, 03:34:43 PM »
He didn't just insert the backup QB. He inserted a third-string QB who hadn't played a down in more than two years into a competitive game. He clearly was trying to lose.
It may have been meaningless to you, but it clearly wasn't to his players, or the rest of the league.
Not sure what I said that's dramatic, though. If you think that the reports that several Eagles players were and are pissed off about it - including direct quotes from Miles Sanders today - are meaningless drama, that's fine. Wrong, but fine.


Here's what he said:

"If I'm being honest, nobody liked the decision. Nobody. That's all I can say....I don't know who was the main person behind that decision, but all I know is a lot of people on the team were confused."

Wow. Really inflammatory stuff there.

Even if he is toning down his true emotions here, there is really nothing to suggest that Pedersen "damaged relationships" with players in the locker room or "tarnished his reputation" around the league.

This is manufactured drama that will all be forgotten by the time the season rolls around.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Silent Verbal

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1281 on: January 05, 2021, 03:57:19 PM »

Two defensive players had to be held back from approaching Pederson. Center Jason Kelce and another offensive starter went to the coach to ask him why he had pulled the starting quarterback with the Eagles trailing by only three.

Hurts was distraught, as well. Even though he had been told Wednesday that there was a chance Sudfeld could play, he couldn’t understand why Pederson would make the switch, sources close to the situation said.


I assume you haven’t played competitive sports. Once the coach loses respect, he has lost the team.

It doesn't seem like the players were on board with the tank job.  Football is an intense and violent game, and Pederson's (or the GM's) actions were especially insulting to the defensive guys and O-lineman who were working hard and putting their bodies on the line each and every play.

Spotcheck Billy

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1282 on: January 05, 2021, 04:01:21 PM »
rumors that Carson Wentz requested a trade, good luck with that contract.

Pakuni

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1283 on: January 05, 2021, 04:18:52 PM »

Wow. Really inflammatory stuff there.

Easy with the straw man.

Quote
Even if he is toning down his true emotions here, there is really nothing to suggest that Pedersen "damaged relationships" with players in the locker room or "tarnished his reputation" around the league. 

There's loads of evidence. Players, coaches, former players, former coaches, executives, analysts, etc., across the league have said so. This isn't just Skip Bayless and Stephen A. going on rants. These are his players and his peers around the league, along with the reasonable voices who cover the NFL (i.e. Chris Collinsworth, Steve Marinucci, Charles Robinson).
You're just choosing to ignore and/or downplay their comments because they don't fit the "manufactured drama" hill you're apparently happy to die on.


TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1284 on: January 05, 2021, 04:19:17 PM »
rumors that Carson Wentz requested a trade, good luck with that contract.
The incredible decline of Carson Wentz baffles me. I saw him live prior to the knee injury and said at the time that no QB reminded me more of Rodgers in his ability to make smart decisions, deliver pinpoint accurate throws on the run, and use his legs both within the pocket and to pick up yardage when necessary. Now he's just got a big bag of nothing.

I don't even know if he is worth a flier as a backup QB. I can't think of a QB that has fallen so far out of form and then regained a high level of play.
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1285 on: January 05, 2021, 04:21:59 PM »
Easy with the straw man.

There's loads of evidence. Players, coaches, former players, former coaches, executives, analysts, etc., across the league have said so. This isn't just Skip Bayless and Stephen A. going on rants. These are his players and his peers around the league, along with the reasonable voices who cover the NFL (i.e. Chris Collinsworth, Steve Marinucci, Charles Robinson).
You're just choosing to ignore and/or downplay their comments because they don't fit the "manufactured drama" hill you're apparently happy to die on.

I'm not dying on a hill.  I'm just not buying the drama.  Time will tell.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1286 on: January 05, 2021, 04:26:13 PM »
The incredible decline of Carson Wentz baffles me. I saw him live prior to the knee injury and said at the time that no QB reminded me more of Rodgers in his ability to make smart decisions, deliver pinpoint accurate throws on the run, and use his legs both within the pocket and to pick up yardage when necessary. Now he's just got a big bag of nothing.

I don't even know if he is worth a flier as a backup QB. I can't think of a QB that has fallen so far out of form and then regained a high level of play.


I have wondered if Reich and DiFilippo leaving the coaching staff after 2017 has had anything to do with his slipping.  This is an older article, but it makes me wonder...

https://www.inquirer.com/eagles/eagles-carson-wentz-tough-love-john-defilippo-quarterbacks-coach-press-taylor-doug-pederson-mike-groh-20191208.html
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jesmu84

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1287 on: January 05, 2021, 04:56:08 PM »

Pakuni

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1288 on: January 05, 2021, 05:00:01 PM »
I don't even know if he is worth a flier as a backup QB. I can't think of a QB that has fallen so far out of form and then regained a high level of play.

Jim Plunkett?

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1289 on: January 05, 2021, 05:19:11 PM »
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1290 on: January 05, 2021, 05:22:20 PM »

JWags85

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1291 on: January 05, 2021, 05:39:43 PM »
Kurt Warner

I think the difference was Warner was actively playing with a broken hand when he lost form.  He probably would have stayed the starter and been good again the very next year in NY if Eli wasn’t there.  Wentz is “healthy” and an absolute broken disaster

Ryan Tannehill

Tannehill played on terrible teams his early career.  Then the year after he blew out his knee, he was actually pretty good.  17/9, 65% completion percentage. 93 QBR which was actually a bit better than in the past.  He was just traded cause Gase wanted his own QB, not cause he fell off.  I’d argue he was a decent QB who became very good in Tennessee, not a very good QB who fell off and then became very good again

shoothoops

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1292 on: January 05, 2021, 06:26:57 PM »
Kurt Warner broke his pinky finger in 2000 (the season in between his two Super Bowl seasons in St. Louis) when the backup center thought he was going to line up in shotgun instead of under center. At the time, St. Louis was undefeated and averaging 44 points per game. They lost in the playoffs as Trent Green spent some time filling in.

In 2002 he broke the same finger. He also had career long chronic on and off again thumb issues since his Arena League days. (He finally felt comfortable with a glove on his hand in Arizona and eventually made it back to a third Super Bowl after the other two in St. Louis) He had a lot of issues prior to that gripping the ball.

When with the Giants, he played the opening game with a concussion and shouldn't have played.

Going periods of time not playing and not getting hit as often helped Warner later in his career.

Warner of course originally got his original chance in St. Louis because of Rodney Harrison's pre-season hit on Trent Green Warner's first season in St. Louis, which some would classify as dirty. Green later went on to start 80 consecutive games with Kansas City several years later.

When healthy, and at times not healthy Warner could sling it. (Had HOF support as well with Pace, Faulk, Bruce and soon to be Holt)

« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 06:55:20 PM by shoothoops »

hairy worthen

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1293 on: January 08, 2021, 07:37:01 AM »
Looking forward to gorging myself in football games this weekend. Already told my wife that I will have my ass planted on the recliner with beer nearby and fire in the fire place all weekend. 

Will be rooting for the Bills, Rams and Washington on Saturday and the Ravens, Bears and Steelers on Sunday.  I think all those teams win except the Bears. I do think the Bears will be competitive and have a chance if they can rattle Brees and, maybe finally cash in on a turnover or three.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 08:06:41 AM by hairy worthen »

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1294 on: January 08, 2021, 08:03:41 AM »
Redskins aren't playing this weekend. 
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

hairy worthen

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1295 on: January 08, 2021, 08:06:08 AM »
Redskins aren't playing this weekend.
Hard to break old habits. fixed it. hope they get a real nickname next year.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1296 on: January 08, 2021, 08:08:13 AM »
Hard to break old habits. fixed it. hope they get a real nickname next year.


Just pulling your chain.  It would be real nice as a Packer fan to see the WFT, Rams and Bears win this weekend.  I think the only one with a shot though is WFT because they're playing at home and have a decent defense.  Not sure they can score enough points though.
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cheebs09

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1297 on: January 08, 2021, 09:57:39 AM »

Just pulling your chain.  It would be real nice as a Packer fan to see the WFT, Rams and Bears win this weekend.  I think the only one with a shot though is WFT because they're playing at home and have a decent defense.  Not sure they can score enough points though.

As a Tom Brady fantasy owner, he does struggle with teams with a good pass rush. Granted, it doesn’t sound like Smith is healthy and they are talking about rotating QBs. They may need a Defensive TD to have a real shot.

DegenerateDish

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1298 on: January 09, 2021, 07:50:26 AM »
I have zero feel for any of these wild card games this weekend. I could see the Bills blowing out Indy, or Indy gets the ball first, grinds out time of possession, gets an early Allen pick and makes it a game.

Rams/Seahawks...no clue, Seattle is a real unconvincing 12-4.

Tampa should win easy, but WFT has the no one believes in us mantra, and to beat Brady, you have to knock him down, which Washington can do. I have no idea how WFT scores.

I think the wonkiest game will be Bears/Saints. Total gut feeling on that. Saints have lost at home their last two playoff games. Bears have to get to Brees to have a chance.

jesmu84

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Re: 2020-21 NFL Season
« Reply #1299 on: January 09, 2021, 08:01:49 AM »
I have zero feel for any of these wild card games this weekend. I could see the Bills blowing out Indy, or Indy gets the ball first, grinds out time of possession, gets an early Allen pick and makes it a game.

Rams/Seahawks...no clue, Seattle is a real unconvincing 12-4.

Tampa should win easy, but WFT has the no one believes in us mantra, and to beat Brady, you have to knock him down, which Washington can do. I have no idea how WFT scores.

I think the wonkiest game will be Bears/Saints. Total gut feeling on that. Saints have lost at home their last two playoff games. Bears have to get to Brees to have a chance.

Well good news, based on his regular season performance, I think robert Quinn has been saving his energy for the playoffs

 

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