2020-21 College Football Thread

[shoothoops]

And each time they got down big early and the opponent took their foot off the pedal to prevent injuries for the game that mattered.

You of course are missing the point.

When Clemson won the National Title over Alabama a few years ago, they led by 27 in the 3rd quarter. They scored 31 first half points. And, Alabama scored zero 2nd half points.

Alabama led tonight by 18 at halftime in a 28 point lopsided score.

These weren’t close games.

[shoothoops]

14 of the 21 CFP games have been decided by at least 17 points and the last three title games have been decided by 28, 17 and 28 points.

That’s a lot of losses to blame on Notre Dame.

[CreightonWarrior]

I like how Alabama methodically goes about their business with out a lot of drama. Reminds of the Packers in the 60s, who coincidentally were led by an Alabama game manager style quarterback in Bart Starr.

That’s how great Saban’s system is. One of his kids creates drama or showboats, they get benched and replaced by someone who is just as good or will be the next star.

[wadesworld]

14 of the 21 CFP games have been decided by at least 17 points and the last three title games have been decided by 28, 17 and 28 points.

That’s a lot of losses to blame on Notre Dame.

Blaming Notre Dame for what?

Your problem in trying to give Notre Dame credit for being more competitive with Alabama is that the team Ohio State just beat by like 30 in the semifinals had just beat Notre Dame by like 30 in the ACC Championship game.

But congrats to Notre Dame for only being down by like 20 at half in the semifinals. Solid showing by them.

[wadesworld]

Also, the other thing about the past three championships being blowouts and it's not Notre Dame's "fault" is that the three teams that have been blown out in those games all have national championships in the CFP era/past decade.  Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State have shown they can compete with the very best teams in the country.  Compare that to Notre Dame getting boat raced every time they have played in a championship game/CFP semifinal and there's a pretty big difference.  They finally play in a conference title game?  Blown out.  Two CFP semifinal appearances and one BCS title appearance?  Blown out in all 3.

[MU82]

14 of the 21 CFP games have been decided by at least 17 points and the last three title games have been decided by 28, 17 and 28 points.

That’s a lot of losses to blame on Notre Dame.

Who's "blaming" ND for anything?

Just saying that a team that lost its last two games by a combined 41 points -- and easily could have lost by a combined 61 or more if the opponents hadn't put it on cruise control, as if that even matters -- shouldn't be bragged about.

They had precisely two wins against good teams this season, one in 2OT against a Clemson team playing without the No. 1 NFL draft pick and also its best defensive player. And once in the playoffs, they were NEVER a factor; as soon as their first possession failed vs Bama, the game was over.

But again, hang a banner!

[dgies9156]

Also, the other thing about the past three championships being blowouts and it's not Notre Dame's "fault" is that the three teams that have been blown out in those games all have national championships in the CFP era/past decade.  Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State have shown they can compete with the very best teams in the country.  Compare that to Notre Dame getting boat raced every time they have played in a championship game/CFP semifinal and there's a pretty big difference.  They finally play in a conference title game?  Blown out.  Two CFP semifinal appearances and one BCS title appearance?  Blown out in all 3.

What would you rather be? Blown out in all three or not be invited?

Notre Dame had a great team this year. Alabama arguably may have had the best college football team in history. Like it or not, Alabama blew out almost everything it ran into this year.

Ohio State, Notre Dame and Clemson can't say the same thing. Nor can Georgia, Texas A&M, Cincinnati, Florida and a host of other teams.

[wadesworld]

What would you rather be? Blown out in all three or not be invited?

Notre Dame had a great team this year. Alabama arguably may have had the best college football team in history. Like it or not, Alabama blew out almost everything it ran into this year.

Ohio State, Notre Dame and Clemson can't say the same thing. Nor can Georgia, Texas A&M, Cincinnati, Florida and a host of other teams.

I'd rather a program that won't be looked at as a bye week make it in as the 4 seed.

[shoothoops]

Who's "blaming" ND for anything?

Just saying that a team that lost its last two games by a combined 41 points -- and easily could have lost by a combined 61 or more if the opponents hadn't put it on cruise control, as if that even matters -- shouldn't be bragged about.

They had precisely two wins against good teams this season, one in 2OT against a Clemson team playing without the No. 1 NFL draft pick and also its best defensive player. And once in the playoffs, they were NEVER a factor; as soon as their first possession failed vs Bama, the game was over.

But again, hang a banner!

Who is bragging about Notre Dame? I never said they did great in the CFP semis. I very matter of factly stated they did just as well as the teams in the title games (Alabama and Ohio St. In this example)

There was some discussion going around that Notre Dame didn't belong in the semis.

It's startling just how easily triggered some people get here when someone posts about Notre Dame or Wisconsin or Tom Crean or Buzz Williams etc or insert team or person here. The tribal insecurity is palpable.

There are people out there, even MU Rah Rah alums, without that angst, and capable.of objective discussion on those topics.

[shoothoops]

That’s how great Saban’s system is. One of his kids creates drama or showboats, they get benched and replaced by someone who is just as good or will be the next star.

Saban gets a roster full of 5 star recruits. He does try to recruit coachable 5 star recruits, and, ones that fit his system.

[wadesworld]

Who is bragging about Notre Dame? I never said they did great in the CFP semis. I very matter of factly stated they did just as well as the teams in the title games (Alabama and Ohio St. In this example)

There was some discussion going around that Notre Dame didn't belong in the semis.

It's startling just how easily triggered some people get here when someone posts about Notre Dame or Wisconsin or Tom Crean or Buzz Williams etc or insert team or person here. The tribal insecurity is palpable.

There are people out there, even MU Rah Rah alums, without that angst, and capable.of objective discussion on those topics.

Yes.  The assertion that if you want Notre Dame out of the CFP, you should also want Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State out because they've lost just as badly, or worse, is going to bring a response.  Because it's entirely silly.  Notre Dame has had 3 chances in the past couple of decades to prove they belong with the best of the best.  They've been blown out all 3 times.  Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State have also been blown out.  But that's after they won a semifinal game.  And that's after (and before, for Alabama) they won national titles.  Sure Notre Dame has won national titles before.  33 years ago being their most recent.

[shoothoops]

Yes.  The assertion that if you want Notre Dame out of the CFP, you should also want Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State out because they've lost just as badly, or worse, is going to bring a response.  Because it's entirely silly.  Notre Dame has had 3 chances in the past couple of decades to prove they belong with the best of the best.  They've been blown out all 3 times.  Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State have also been blown out.  But that's after they won a semifinal game.  And that's after (and before, for Alabama) they won national titles.  Sure Notre Dame has won national titles before.  33 years ago being their most recent.

Again, you're triggered and not following the posts.

My post(s) didn't say that Notre Dame has had as much CFP success as Alabama, Clemson, or even Ohio St. Clearly they haven't. It's a pretty short list Nationally.

In the two particular years they played in CFP semis, they lost to the eventual champion by less than the finals team. That's what I said. And it still stands. It that triggers you, so be it.

[wadesworld]

Again, you're triggered and not following the posts.

My post(s) didn't say that Notre Dame has had as much CFP success as Alabama, Clemson, or even Ohio St. Clearly they haven't. It's a pretty short list Nationally.

In the two particular years they played in CFP semis, they lost to the eventual champion by less than the finals team. That's what I said. And it still stands. It that triggers you, so be it.

Congratulations to Notre Dame.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Again, you're triggered and not following the posts.

My post(s) didn't say that Notre Dame has had as much CFP success as Alabama, Clemson, or even Ohio St. Clearly they haven't. It's a pretty short list Nationally.

In the two particular years they played in CFP semis, they lost to the eventual champion by less than the finals team. That's what I said. And it still stands. It that triggers you, so be it.

I mean yeah...it stands.  But I am not sure it means anything.  The two times they have been in the CFP, they've deserved it. 

People just like to rag on them because they act like their farts don't stink.  Even though they definitely do.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Najee Harris takes a reporter's question to task.

https://twitter.com/priestas/status/1349026383549358082?s=20

[shoothoops]

I mean yeah...it stands.  But I am not sure it means anything.  The two times they have been in the CFP, they've deserved it. 

People just like to rag on them because they act like their farts don't stink.  Even though they definitely do.

That's what I was saying. They were deserving, and it isn't as though people can rattle off a list of many more deserving teams and/or teams that would have done better. It's more of a comment about a handful of teams of 5 star players dominating the landscape. Saban has 7 National Titles in 16 years.

And in my experience, every fan base has good, bad, indifferent fans. I don't really get that part.

[JWags85]

That's what I was saying. They were deserving, and it isn't as though people can rattle off a list of many more deserving teams and/or teams that would have done better. It's more of a comment about a handful of teams of 5 star players dominating the landscape. Saban has 7 National Titles in 16 years.

And in my experience, every fan base has good, bad, indifferent fans. I don't really get that part.

I’ve yet to meet an indifferent ND fan.  Maybe indifferent ND alumni, but in my ample experience from Chicago to NYC to LA, their fans are either arrogant and obnoxious or over the top in saying why their extremely tenuous connection to the program justifies their militant approach to the team or college football arguments defending them.

They got destroyed in yet another CFP semi and I saw/heard multiple people immediately saying it’s not fair cause ND has recruiting standards and nobody else does except Stanford and NW

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I’ve yet to meet an indifferent ND fan.  Maybe indifferent ND alumni, but in my ample experience from Chicago to NYC to LA, their fans are either arrogant and obnoxious or over the top in saying why their extremely tenuous connection to the program justifies their militant approach to the team or college football arguments defending them.

It's also their administration with Jenkins saying they would leave major college football if players were getting paid, or the whole hypocrisy with how they handled the storming the field incident from the fall.

They have an outsized image of themselves and their role in the college football world.  So seeing them get their a$$ run over in a semifinal game is very enjoyable.

[MUBurrow]

Ironically ND deserved to get in more this year than the past years becuase they had to play in a conference championship game. What I hate about the ND - playoff relationship is that not belonging to a conference plays to their advantage scheduling-wise.  They play a tough enough schedule to never get left out for lack of quality opponents, and then they don't have to play in a conference championship at the end. When you add-in the recency issue that their scheduling mainstays have been relatively down lately - USC, Michigan, etc have been good enough to matter but not good enough to beat a top 5-10 team, ACC has been Clemson and then a huge gap to everyone else - and that soft factors will always lean toward ND, they've got a very nice setup to get in.

I don't necessarily think that teams that would get in over ND would fare much better, but it would at least be more interesting to see teams with conference affiliations rotate into that spot more often than ND, who is to my qualitative eye typically somewhere in the neighborhood of the 8th - 12th best team in the country when that first playoff game is actually played.

[shoothoops]

I’ve yet to meet an indifferent ND fan.  Maybe indifferent ND alumni, but in my ample experience from Chicago to NYC to LA, their fans are either arrogant and obnoxious or over the top in saying why their extremely tenuous connection to the program justifies their militant approach to the team or college football arguments defending them.

They got destroyed in yet another CFP semi and I saw/heard multiple people immediately saying it’s not fair cause ND has recruiting standards and nobody else does except Stanford and NW

It would appear your issue is with certain specific non ND alums in your personal life experience. Certain specific "Subway" alums.

Every school has fans that are both alums and non-alums. Both are valued. Non alums don't hold less value. If non alums of Marquette want to come and support the Men's and Women's sports programs, great. Of course these will be a mix of good, bad, indifferent fans so to speak. And even among alums and non alums, there are a wide variety of types of fans in each group. Based on MU boards, MU games, and elsewhere, there are some people living in glass houses. Now MU isn't going to get as much attention as an ND. Maybe that's part of it for some.

I've spent considerable time at ND, and, around both alums and non-alum ND fans across the country. Every experience has been more about the person than the school. It varies, like anywhere else. The vast majority of ND alums and non alum fans I've encountered (certainly not all) are pretty level headed about their place as a top 10-15 program under Kelly. That's what they are and have been overall, occasionally better.  They know that if they want to be one of the top one or two or three teams, they will need to recruit better players more often.

There will always be some fans (alum and not) that make excuses at every school. Some players, coaches, admin do it too. Some are more candid.

Football of course rules the roost there, and at times some ND people are less interested less invested in some of their other sports programs. Again, that varies too but is certainly common.

[dgies9156]

I'd rather a program that won't be looked at as a bye week make it in as the 4 seed.

Brother BLM:

Having watched Alabama play Notre Dame and Ohio State, I think the bye week came in the National Championship game. Everybody was slaughtered by Alabama this year. Gave a whole new meaning to the saying, "roll Tide..."

Notre Dame has some growing to do if it intends to be National Champions again -- and, by the way, I'm not a fan. But, even so, Notre Dame is far closer than it has been in years. Kelley has been good for the Irish and if the growth curve continues, Notre Dame will win a Natty again.

Of course, their alumni will again be insufferable (as if they ever stopped being that way).

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Indiana's football season ended Week 5 when they lost to Ohio State by a touchdown.

TAMU's football season ended Week 2 when they lost to Alabama.

Cincinnati and Coastal Carolina's football seasons ended Week 0 when their schedules weren't strong enough.

This is why I can never really get into college football. I need at least the statistical probability of making the playoffs to find a sport interesting. When an early season loss to one of the best teams in the country is enough to eliminate you from the playoffs,  or when you can go undefeated and not make the playoffs, that's a problem for me.

Expand the CFP!

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Ironically ND deserved to get in more this year than the past years becuase they had to play in a conference championship game. What I hate about the ND - playoff relationship is that not belonging to a conference plays to their advantage scheduling-wise.  They play a tough enough schedule to never get left out for lack of quality opponents, and then they don't have to play in a conference championship at the end. When you add-in the recency issue that their scheduling mainstays have been relatively down lately - USC, Michigan, etc have been good enough to matter but not good enough to beat a top 5-10 team, ACC has been Clemson and then a huge gap to everyone else - and that soft factors will always lean toward ND, they've got a very nice setup to get in.

I don't necessarily think that teams that would get in over ND would fare much better, but it would at least be more interesting to see teams with conference affiliations rotate into that spot more often than ND, who is to my qualitative eye typically somewhere in the neighborhood of the 8th - 12th best team in the country when that first playoff game is actually played.

But they have only been in the College Football Playoffs twice.  This year they deserved their spot.  In 2018-19, they got in undefeated.  The only team with an argument that they deserved a birth would have been Ohio State, which played a better schedule but inexplicably lost to an average Purdue team.

In 2012-13, they were the #1 team in the country before getting hammered by Alabama in the BCS National Championship (no semis).  And the question about "who deserved it" wasn't about ND, it was about Alabama who lost to A&M that year.  Oregon, Florida and Kansas State were also one loss teams, but Alabama beat #3 Georgia in the SEC Championship Game.  (Had Georgia won that game, they undoubtedly would have received the bid.)

Prior to that they were in a couple non-championship BCS bowls.  No idea if those were deserved or not, but they draw eyeballs.

[shoothoops]

Ironically ND deserved to get in more this year than the past years becuase they had to play in a conference championship game. What I hate about the ND - playoff relationship is that not belonging to a conference plays to their advantage scheduling-wise.  They play a tough enough schedule to never get left out for lack of quality opponents, and then they don't have to play in a conference championship at the end. When you add-in the recency issue that their scheduling mainstays have been relatively down lately - USC, Michigan, etc have been good enough to matter but not good enough to beat a top 5-10 team, ACC has been Clemson and then a huge gap to everyone else - and that soft factors will always lean toward ND, they've got a very nice setup to get in.

I don't necessarily think that teams that would get in over ND would fare much better, but it would at least be more interesting to see teams with conference affiliations rotate into that spot more often than ND, who is to my qualitative eye typically somewhere in the neighborhood of the 8th - 12th best team in the country when that first playoff game is actually played.

This is reasonable. Notre Dame plays more of pro style ball control offense, and, that works, and is aesthetically fine vs most teams in the country except one or two or so right now. But against the top team that season, it's difficult to do when you get down against a more explosive 5 star player offense. Then the aesthetics decline. They don't have the team speed and players to play any system. They would have to go out and recruit and get more of those players. It hasn't been something they have been able to do. They were more physical and better at the line of scrimmage on both sides.

Expanding to 8 or 16 may open up exposure and opportunities for more more teams to both get in and to improve recruiting. I'd be in favor of that.

[Billy Hoyle]

You of course are missing the point.

When Clemson won the National Title over Alabama a few years ago, they led by 27 in the 3rd quarter. They scored 31 first half points. And, Alabama scored zero 2nd half points.

Alabama led tonight by 18 at halftime in a 28 point lopsided score.

These weren’t close games.

No, you defending ND and their performance in the semifinals.

You seem to spend more time pretending to be an insider with other programs than you do talking about MU (because we all care so much about Vanderbilt and Arizona football).