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Author Topic: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020  (Read 2741 times)

vogue65

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2020, 03:20:28 PM »
Colleges and universities usually just close.  I don't know if the corporation officially goes into bankruptcy as part of that process.

Agreed, they merge, then wither away.  Just look at Catholic high schools and retreat houses.  The B.O.T. has some very hard decisions coming up.   

What created not for profit universities like Marquette?  In my view, the G.I. Bill after WWII.   Yes it was founded in 1881, but the growth started after the depression and WWII.  So how does it end?  Covid and another depression? 

The $15 million shortfall may just be the handwriting on the wall. 

It is easier to play with the budget than to cut overhead. Time for core value, nice to have but not required, decisions.  Easier said than done, good luck B.O.T..

lawdog77

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2020, 03:21:48 PM »
You should probably divorce "Rule of Thumb" from your vocabulary.
I don't use the term, but..

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1998-04-17-1998107056-story.html

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2020, 03:29:54 PM »
Marquette is different than some of those organizations.  If a Catholic high school or something similar closes, the assets revert to the founding order, and if the order dissolves or no longer exists, the Catholic church.  Marquette's do not.  It is actually an indepdent University who affiliates with the Catholic Church.  The founding order also holds no "reserve powers."  It is completely self-governing.  And according to its Articles of Incorporation, if it is dissovled, the assets go to a 501(c)(3) charity that the BOT determines.

And Marquette is nowhere near closing, dissolving or the like.
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Hards_Alumni

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2020, 03:36:01 PM »
I don't use the term, but..

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1998-04-17-1998107056-story.html

Interesting, learn something new everyday, I guess!  I'm still probably not going to use it though.

vogue65

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2020, 06:47:36 PM »
Marquette is different than some of those organizations.  If a Catholic high school or something similar closes, the assets revert to the founding order, and if the order dissolves or no longer exists, the Catholic church.  Marquette's do not.  It is actually an indepdent University who affiliates with the Catholic Church.  The founding order also holds no "reserve powers."  It is completely self-governing.  And according to its Articles of Incorporation, if it is dissovled, the assets go to a 501(c)(3) charity that the BOT determines.

And Marquette is nowhere near closing, dissolving or the like.

I agree Marquette is not closing, only downsizing.
If we think Marquette has long term problems they are nothing compared to ND.
My catholic high school split from the archdiocese to protect assets from the "scandal", i understand.



vogue65

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2020, 06:57:51 PM »
I don't use the term, but..

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1998-04-17-1998107056-story.html

Thanks, very interesting, but I will use it to mean that experience shows that a 25% unused capacity leads to serious financial problems, like bankruptcy.  As in, unallocated overhead.

BTW, love The George Washington University, great school.  I did 21 hours of graduate school there, no degree, but very worthwhile and highly respected education/institution. 


MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2020, 08:21:49 AM »
Xavier apparently has record enrollment for this upcoming fall semester.  My daughter got an email this week offering tuition & dining compensation for volunteers in 2 dorms that are Freshman/Sophomore for the Sophomores to move off campus locations to make room for Freshman.  My daughter is not slated to be in either dorm, but is pursuing with her group of friends regardless for the incentives.

vogue65

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2020, 09:34:02 AM »


The vast majority of schools are dealing with this primarily through cuts in personnel expenses.  Furloughs, temporary pay cuts, unfilled positions, etc.  It the largest expense a college or university has so it's the one that needs to be targetted first.

First things first, stop gap, then the real cuts.

vogue65

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2020, 09:40:15 AM »
You should probably divorce "Rule of Thumb" from your vocabulary.

O.K., what should I say to be "politically" or etymologically correct?  Thank you.

Hards_Alumni

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2020, 09:47:33 AM »
O.K., what should I say to be "politically" or etymologically correct?  Thank you.

It's been covered.  My preposition was incorrect.  But since, you asked, I'd go with, "As a rule".  :P

Disco Hippie

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2020, 09:01:14 PM »
Xavier apparently has record enrollment for this upcoming fall semester.  My daughter got an email this week offering tuition & dining compensation for volunteers in 2 dorms that are Freshman/Sophomore for the Sophomores to move off campus locations to make room for Freshman.  My daughter is not slated to be in either dorm, but is pursuing with her group of friends regardless for the incentives.

Because their marketing in this region is far superior.  Wish I could say I was surprised but they put far more resources into this region than MU does. Marquette is still probably a slightly better brand name overall in the U.S. but X surpassed MU in popularity in the Northeast 15 years ago.   It's not because CinCin is marginally closer than MKE, the difference is not significant.  It's marketing plain and simple.  MU's endowment, while not impressive at $698M still dwarfs X's at $169M.  Inexcusable.  Found an interesting article that confirms MUFANinCT's claim below:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2020/04/26/xavier-university-pace-meet-enrollment-goals-despite-pandemic/3010696001/

Smart Strategy
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 09:06:19 PM by Disco Hippie »

Billy Hoyle

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2020, 12:39:54 AM »
Because their marketing in this region is far superior.  Wish I could say I was surprised but they put far more resources into this region than MU does. Marquette is still probably a slightly better brand name overall in the U.S. but X surpassed MU in popularity in the Northeast 15 years ago.   It's not because CinCin is marginally closer than MKE, the difference is not significant.  It's marketing plain and simple.  MU's endowment, while not impressive at $698M still dwarfs X's at $169M.  Inexcusable.  Found an interesting article that confirms MUFANinCT's claim below:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2020/04/26/xavier-university-pace-meet-enrollment-goals-despite-pandemic/3010696001/

Smart Strategy

X was in the A10 and was actively recruiting students in the NE side joining in 1995 and has a nicer campus. That said, MU should have a stronger presence. MU is a better school and has been for a long time. From personal experience, my dad wouldn’t let me apply to X as I had already applied to MU and MU was a harder school to be admitted to.
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Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2020, 06:28:13 AM »
Because their marketing in this region is far superior.  Wish I could say I was surprised but they put far more resources into this region than MU does. Marquette is still probably a slightly better brand name overall in the U.S. but X surpassed MU in popularity in the Northeast 15 years ago.   It's not because CinCin is marginally closer than MKE, the difference is not significant.  It's marketing plain and simple.  MU's endowment, while not impressive at $698M still dwarfs X's at $169M.  Inexcusable.  Found an interesting article that confirms MUFANinCT's claim below:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2020/04/26/xavier-university-pace-meet-enrollment-goals-despite-pandemic/3010696001/

Smart Strategy


It might be a sound strategy.  This paragraph shows that they had to pay a lot to get those students:

"That change was part of the motivation behind Xavier earmarking "hundreds of thousands" of additional dollars toward financial aid, Meis said. He declined to give an exact figure of the increase. The money was originally meant in part to attract students during the expanded recruitment period.

The increase in financial aid, though it would detract from tuition revenue, served as an investment, with the hope that it would allow the university to retain more students and thus more revenue in the future."

Any school can meet quantity targets if they discount enough.  But quantitty targets aren't the only metric.  How much those students pay is important as well.  Because you can't add students without adding costs.

And that comment that it's an investment doesn't make a lot of sense because those students are going to be paying less for four years.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Marquette Gyros

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2020, 10:07:09 AM »

It might be a sound strategy.  This paragraph shows that they had to pay a lot to get those students:


We also had to pay a lot to get the students we got, and still didn’t meet our targets, yeah?

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2020, 12:55:42 PM »

We also had to pay a lot to get the students we got, and still didn’t meet our targets, yeah?


Yes.  I wasn't comparing the two strategies.  I was simply stating that simply meeting quantity goals may not be a sound strategy.
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Disco Hippie

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2020, 01:56:04 PM »
X was in the A10 and was actively recruiting students in the NE side joining in 1995 and has a nicer campus. That said, MU should have a stronger presence. MU is a better school and has been for a long time. From personal experience, my dad wouldn’t let me apply to X as I had already applied to MU and MU was a harder school to be admitted to.

Great point about the A-10 Billy.  I didn’t think of that but you’re right it probably has a lot to do with it.  Marquette’s urban location is not a draw to many either and I get that.  I was definitely an anomaly because my attitude at the time was if the campus had grass I didn’t wanna go there so I didn’t even bother applying to schools with traditional campuses, but fully acknowledge most 18-year-olds don’t feel that way.  Still, as an institution that claims it wants to be a “national university“ they shouldn’t be happy that 78% of all undergraduates hail from two states.  I’d like to see more students matriculate from everywhere not just the Northeast east but the NE is by far the most densely populated part of the country and they should be doing better than they are here.  At our local Jesuit high school here in southwestern CT, UW Madison is significantly more popular than MU.  Sad!
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 05:29:28 PM by Disco Hippie »

vogue65

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2020, 02:24:46 PM »
"As a rule", in good times students shop amenities and sports, in bad times they shop price.

High needers shop price, the prevledged shop dormatories, sports and food.

It is hard to have it both ways.  The esoteric subjects and majors are at the well endowed instutions, the "practical" educations are for the rest of us.

TinyTimsLittleBrother

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #42 on: October 06, 2020, 01:30:45 PM »
https://marquettewire.org/4040207/projects-tribune/professors-disheartened-by-potential-layoffs/

How bad are Marquette's issues?

In 2018, they bragged about their largest first year class since they started keeping records in 1960.  2,162 students.  Two years later, they enrolled their smallest first year class in over 20 years: 1,647 students.  That is a decline of 23.8%.

You are going to read a lot about COVID and demographics being the reasons behind this.  But other schools aren't suffering through decreases of this size. And the big demographic changes aren't even set to hit until the mid 20s.

So a bunch of people are going to lose their jobs over this.  The University has no choice.  But are any of these people on the chopping block?  What a mess.

https://www.marquette.edu/leadership/documents/ulc-org-chart.pdf

Come on Trustees!  Start asking questions!

Hards_Alumni

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #43 on: October 06, 2020, 02:42:34 PM »
https://marquettewire.org/4040207/projects-tribune/professors-disheartened-by-potential-layoffs/

How bad are Marquette's issues?

In 2018, they bragged about their largest first year class since they started keeping records in 1960.  2,162 students.  Two years later, they enrolled their smallest first year class in over 20 years: 1,647 students.  That is a decline of 23.8%.

You are going to read a lot about COVID and demographics being the reasons behind this.  But other schools aren't suffering through decreases of this size. And the big demographic changes aren't even set to hit until the mid 20s.

So a bunch of people are going to lose their jobs over this.  The University has no choice.  But are any of these people on the chopping block?  What a mess.

https://www.marquette.edu/leadership/documents/ulc-org-chart.pdf

Come on Trustees!  Start asking questions!
I don't know what you think that conversation will go like, but it would be something like this:

Trustees:  What happened here!?!?!

Rest of functional world:  Well, a global pandemic.

Trustee:  Oh yeah, that's right.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2020, 03:20:13 PM »
I don't know what you think that conversation will go like, but it would be something like this:

Trustees:  What happened here!?!?!

Rest of functional world:  Well, a global pandemic.

Trustee:  Oh yeah, that's right.


I think Tiny's point is that Covid may be used as an excuse, but it's actually deeper than that.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Trump Loves The Big East

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #45 on: October 06, 2020, 07:12:43 PM »
Historically Marquette has made bad decisions when short term financial considerations were given more weighting over long term considerations . Examples a) discontinuing Football b) discontinuing Marquette Medical School and C) Not paying up for a bona fide successor to Al.

Marquette does well when it deserves a clear educational outcome, that is: a Big Ten Quality Education, for top 20 percent of their class students, combined with the close personal attention to student circumstances a medium size school can provide. That is why for years MU was labeled by US News as an A+ School for B Students. That structure is a winning combination for parents and kids.

MU has all the basics to succeed in the academic complex of the future. A tremendous health sciences complex that cranks out well trained graduates that are in high demand. Education churns out teachers.  Engineering Business School and Communications are all very consistent. The Law School and Dental School are both well respected. College of Arts and Sciences is necessary to have a University that feed students to Graduate and Professional Schools.

GooooMarquette

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #46 on: October 06, 2020, 09:11:54 PM »
I don’t doubt that the declining enrollment at Marquette is more than just Covid. That said, it would be interesting to see the two-year decreases at comparable universities, to gauge the magnitude of the problem.

forgetful

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #47 on: October 06, 2020, 09:19:25 PM »
I don't know what you think that conversation will go like, but it would be something like this:

Trustees:  What happened here!?!?!

Rest of functional world:  Well, a global pandemic.

Trustee:  Oh yeah, that's right.

I'm not sure that would be an accurate excuse.

Some MU peer Universities changed tactics to remedy any shortfalls in enrollment. Several of those Universities either hit or exceeded targets despite COVID.

MU82

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #48 on: October 06, 2020, 09:20:13 PM »
I don’t doubt that the declining enrollment at Marquette is more than just Covid. That said, it would be interesting to see the two-year decreases at comparable universities, to gauge the magnitude of the problem.

Agreed. I’m not saying we don’t have a problem. I simply don’t know. Need some context.
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Disco Hippie

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Re: MU: $15 million budget shortfall for fiscal 2020
« Reply #49 on: October 06, 2020, 09:46:35 PM »
I'm not sure that would be an accurate excuse.

Some MU peer Universities changed tactics to remedy any shortfalls in enrollment. Several of those Universities either hit or exceeded targets despite COVID.

Interesting.  Can you elaborate more on these tactics Forgetful?